Is Big Brother Nationalizing Neighborhood Watch?
By Roger Aronoff | August 5, 2009
Is the White House promoting snitching on your neighbors if they don't support the President's plan for health care reform?
Certainly people should report criminal activity if they see people commit such acts. But should people snitch on others who are exercising their First Amendment freedom of speech rights, by expressing their doubts and concerns about President Obama's plans for a government health care plan? On the WhiteHouse.gov blog site, there is this call to report on "fishy" activities by your neighbors and associates:
"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can't keep track of all of them here at the White House, we're asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)"
Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) has sent a letter today to President Obama asking him to explain the purpose and intended uses of whatever names and reports they receive.
Cornyn has raised some very real concerns:
"I am not aware of any precedent for a President asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White House for pure political speech that is deemed 'fishy' or otherwise inimical to the White House's political interests.
"By requesting that citizens send 'fishy' emails to the White House, it is inevitable that the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and private speech of U.S. citizens will be reported to the White House. You should not be surprised that these actions taken by your White House staff raise the specter of a data collection program. As Congress debates health care reform and other critical policy matters, citizen engagement must not be chilled by fear of government monitoring the exercise of free speech rights."
Here is the full text of Cornyn's letter to President Obama.
Roger Aronoff is a media analyst with Accuracy in Media, and is the writer/director of “Confronting Iraq: Conflict and Hope.” He can be contacted at (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
103 Comments | Post a Comment
Over many years, I’ve lived in several different neighborhoods that supported a “Neighborhood Watch” program - and it most definitely helped develop a sense of community and cooperation among neighbors - it helped keep kids on the straight-and-narrow (especially boisterous teenagers) - and there’s no question that it helped reduce crime.
Even now, in my very gated and VERY Republican community - “Neighborhood Watch” is a long-standing, very respected, and widely participated-in program - and it has clearly demonstrated results in deterring criminal conduct.
And note: In any neighborhood, development, subdivision or community that has a Homeowners or Property Owners Association (hundreds of thousands of such communities throughout the U.S.) - “snitching” by way of anonymously reporting violations of the association’s rules, regulations and deed restrictions - is a way of life - including in my VERY Republican community. (My county has not voted for a Democrat since 1932 - and it’s loaded with gated communities with “Neighborhood Watches” and volunteer resident “Security Patrols”.)
Trying to make “Neighborhood Watch”, a long-standing and very effective community program, yet another hocus-pocus partisan political issue is plainly ridiculous.
And - there is indeed a lot of willful, politicized disinformation and purposely falsified information out there about the so-called health care reform plan - and, for the sake of reasonable and open-minded people everywhere - correcting that situation would be a plus.
In fact, the paranoid hullabaloo about health care reform is right up there with the wild-haired witch at a McCain rally spouting that “Obama is a M-M-M-M-M-uslim” - then rightfully having her mic taken away and being curtly corrected by McCain.
TK…Do you think that anyone believes what you spout? How much are you paid to spread your BS?
Re: Post 3;
What “spouting” are you referring to? My reiterating positive personal experiences with the traditional “Neighborhood Watch” program?
So - YOU think “Neighborhood Watch” is going to take away all your rights and condemn you to live the rest of your life in 1984?
(And, personally, I couldn’t care less about what YOU believe or disbelieve.)
Re post #3;
Kenneth,
It would have gone down better if you had said, “Spew” in stead of “Spout”. It si more savory to those who blather.
BLS
TK….As you well know, the article had nothing to do with Neighborhood Watch. It is about Obama trying to create Brown Shirts to snitch on ordinary citizens. Your pontification on NW has nothing to do with the article. And, I couldn’t care less what you “spew”.
Re; all,, If a Republican W.H. had people
” Snitching ” to the WH,,all hell would break loose from the Left (Blogs,News,Radio,etc)& thru
Congress,all the way to SCOTUS. Now, the Left is in charge & it will be played down quietly,,but it won’t go away,,‘cause “The ONE” said so. With
S.S. in the new SCOTUS, watch what happens when
BHO & his “Csars” can’t get their own way.
As for “Gated Republican Community” (code for only
well heeled WHITES need apply,correct?? ), I’d rather move back from my farm to the South Bronx
‘hood where I worked & retired from (NO SNITCHES)
TK, what are you afraid of Jamaican Drug Posses?,,
Home Boy Pimps?? In 31 yrs. with the NYPD,NYTP &
the NYCTA, I’ve delt with the WORST & lived to tell about it,& would have stayed but our parents died & some one SNITCHED that our farm was empty.
RE Post #7;
Major,
Under BHO the whole country is rapidly turning into a new kind of “Hood” filled with a new kind of “Rat”. Back in our day this new kind of rat was fed the proper bait and not allowed to procreate. We Americanswere built “Constitution Tough”.
Tk,
You got your works in yer sock? Whose your “Daddy”?
Re: Post 7;
My point was that Neighborhood Watch works. Period.
And if you think that neighbors reporting suspicious activity around a house that is ultimately found to be the home of a major drug dealer is - “snitching” - than, as a former cop, you apparently missed the class on “Neighborhood Watch” and the good it can accomplish.
Re: Post 6;
Aronoff’s headline on the article above unnecessarily insulted the very effective “Neighborhood Watch” program - and wrongly connected it to the favorite bogeyman concept of all political paranoids - “Big Brother”.
Re: Post 8;
Re: Post 5 and Post 8;
You two have previously and abundantly evidenced that you are way too far down on the totem pole for me to bother with. Go back under your rocks.
RE Post #11;
Why not say, “Everyone except me(TK) is too far down on the tote pole to bother with”; then go to Moveon.org and stay.
TK, I’d normally say “God, you’re gullible” but “God” is illegal now, so I’ll just say “God, you’re gullible”.
Re: Post 12;
You and the other poster I indicated have evidenced extremely reactionary opinions and statements that have gone way beyond the pale - ESPECIALLY the other poster - and I’m not inclined to bother with those whose prejudiced- or hate-mongering-sounding statements make the KKK look like a bunch of lily-livered liberals - if you get my drift.
In truth, there’s absolutely no point in attempting to talk about political issues with blind, wholly-committed and extreme partisans who are way out on the fringe at either end of the spectrum.
Look, nobody ever accused TK of being a rocket scientist. Perhaps someone could explain to him the difference between cooperative neighborhood look-outs for street crime, and the nation-wide political espionage program that the administration is mounting.
To quote the line from an old folk song, “If mommy is a commie (read: conservative) then you got to turn her in.”
Re: Post 13;
“‘God’ is illegal” ???
(At least you admit you’re a “right-wing extremist”. I’ll at least give you credit for your willingness to be honest on that particular issue.)
Re: Post 15;
“... the nation-wide political espionage program that the administration is mounting…”
Certainly the jerkiest - and one of the most paranoid - statements I’ve seen here yet.
(However - if it really turns out to be true - I sure hope you’re one of the first of the petty pinheaded reactionaries to get picked up and sent to the gulags up in the furthest reaches of Alaska!)
RE Post #14;
TK (Thought Killer), you are the reactionary one. Th rest of us are Americans that are conversing. What country do you hail from?
What is it with your foreigners always calling we Americans KKK, Nazi, Haters, and Right Wingers?
If you so deeply hate Americans…....Shove it!
Posters beware. You play into the hands of the blathering TK when you play his bitchy little game. Just assign the “pinhead” to ignore.
Re: Post 18;
Could be, I guess. But there sure aren’t any around here worth killing at the moment.
Re: Post 19;
First, you obviously don’t know what the meaning of “reactionary” is.
Second, there’s more purely partisan propagandizing going here right now than “conversing”.
Third, are you some kind of nativist racist or something? Do you think everyone who thinks differently from YOU is some kind of “foreigner”?
Fourth, you do realize that the Republican Party and Conservatives are RIGHT-WING, politically-speaking - and that the Democratic Party and Liberals are LEFT-WING - don’t you?
Fifth, after you look up the definition, you’ll realize that the KKK and a variety of other “haters”, including neo-Nazis, white-supremacists, and the so-called “militias” - ARE right-wing “REACTIONARIES”.
Sixth, if you think everyone who has a different and broader political perspective than you “hates America” then - the truth is - you are very likely a close-minded, ill-informed extremist not very far removed from the reactionary hate groups noted above.
And - if you think this country was built by people who have the same political perspective on all things as you - then you’re obviously living in a cinemascope and technicolor hallucination.
Re: Post 20;
So everyone who is not in accord with your way of thinking is “bitchy”?
(Obviously, you must have been in the “real Old Navy” - before women? Somehow or other, today, I don’t think they would go for you spouting off that all the things, people, orders or opinions you didn’t like were “bitchy”.)
You can have whatever opinions you want, Captain (or would that be REAR Admiral) - but so can I. And - since you have determined you can piss on mine in any mini-minded way you choose - then I can certainly respond to your opinions in the very same manner.
Non sibi sed patriae.
TK (Thought Killer),
WE re waiting for you to tell us what country you hail from. Why are you weaving such a complicated web around this simple question, “What country do you hail from?”.
Again, “What country do you hail from?”.
Isn’t he nice? This hockey puck hates Don Rickles and anybody who has the same sense of humor. I think his reference to Rear Admiral is interesting…perhaps he dropped the soap in the showers one too many times.
Royd,
TK had a few stitches put in it to tighten it up. That did not help the funny walk he has. Maybe he is a just little anally incontinent.
Still has not said what country he hails from.
So…..TK, let me get this clearly in my right-wing head.
You believe in neighbors and friends turning in “fishy” comments to the government.
Your “sense of community” helps reduce crime by calling the “government” and reporting that you overheard a neighbor say “I hate Obama”.
You believe in doing everything the government tells you to do, without hesitation.
You don’t question your government. and wholeheartedly believe in “snitching”. Do you wear those handy little ear pieces to spy with? I’m betting you use all waking hours taking video shots of your neighbor picking his nose and trying to figure out how it could be subversive.
You are either a relative of Nancy Pelosi, Barry Sotero, Rahm Emanuel or ACORN. If none of those, then you work for the FED.
Like one guy said, when people are pressured into passing a bill without the ability to read and comprehend it and are threatened with martial law…...while the president spends 6 months deciding on what dog to get for his kids, then I would tend to call YOU an extremely ignorant fascist who sucks up easily and cannot think for him/herself.
You also mentioned some “wild-haired witch” spouting that Obama is a Muslim. I would venture to say that this statement is much more true than the stupid imbecile who bellowed “now I don’t have to worry about my mortgage payment”............duh
FYI: Right-wing extremists are considered anyone who believes in state’s rights, pro-life, guns and GOD…..........you dingbat.
You know what’s scary about TK’s statements is he’s sounds so casual and makes anybody who questions this obvious big brother tactic an extremist. Obama’s universal health care plan is extreme. His tactic to spy on American citizens is extreme. To try to compare this to a neiborhood watch is ludicrous. Then you are automatically labeled a right-wing extremist if you are against this extreme snooping idea.
I can see TK, belittling us all when the next debate will be about Obama wanting conservatives ,that oppose his plans to socialize America, to be sent to retraining our thoughts camps. You’re amazing, TK. Go ahead and insult me, go ahead. I will say you are what’s dangerous in America. The post in here blew you apart. I didn’t care for the nasty crude analogies some gave. However, they blew you awayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!
Being in a Nazi style death camp for Americans run by Democrats would not be a good place to be especially if all the guards were TK clones.
I was just doing some research and asking questions to some of the forum watchers and a WND poster gave me the following: This just maybe (what’s new) illegal activity. If anyone here can help, we need to really get organized and designate a POC (point of contact). Not me, but maybe Mr Kincaid. Atlas Shrugs’Pamela Geller or Jay Sekalow of the ACLJ, The Thomas More Law Center are also possiblities of working on something.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/5/552a.html
This is truly disturbing: Think Germany 1933/Bolshevik 1917 started with just one step.
Yes, the Democrat Thugs are already beating people for voicing their opinions at town hall meetings. Soon the “Night of Broken Glass” is to come to those who voice opinions contrary to that of the Democratic Socialists. Next come the Death Hospitals. Next come the extermination camps.
I think the pinhead is a skinhead.
“Non sibi sed patriae”, not to them but fatherland.
Adolf would be proud of you.
Perhaps the country question has been answered.
It’s really hard to penetrate the minds of a lot of Americans because ,in their heads, facism can’t happen here in the most powerful country in the world. I’m sure in Germany before Hitler took power the citizens there were thinking the same thing.
NO, IT CAN’T HAPPEN HERE, NO WAY! NOT IN GERMANY.
Historical aftermath after Hitler took power.
6 million Jews dead and a whole population of Europe systematically controlled and manipulated for nefarious political reasons.
I’m tired of the excuses and the rationalizing that these pseudo intellectuals like TK are making for the liberals. The democrats are calling opponents nazis who are speaking out at town hall meetings. It sounds like TK is parroting the same rhetoric as Nancy Pelosi. She is a hypocrite because they had swastika symbols at protest against Israel in Pelosi’s own district in San Francisco back in January. Where was the outrage at in that instance?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm awful funny, isn’t it?
check out this web site about Nancy Pelosi’s radical comments about town hall protesting with swastika signs.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/watercooler/2009/aug/06/pelosis-visions-swastikas/
TK’s analogy about the neighborhood watches is a false analogy. Our greatest weapon against lies and deception is knowing the truth. Jesus is the truth. We also must be sharp in our minds or we will fall for the bogus arguments that people like TK makes. He may be sincere, however, he is sincerely wrong. Dead and dangerously wrong.
This definitely is disturbing and a
SCARYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
development in America.
Hockey Puck, are you an American, or is that too Sarah Palin-corny for the superior set?
RE Post #34;
superkeenobserver, Your observations are in fact very keen. America needs keen minds to keep Liberty/Freedom, and her people alive and happy. People like TK are as a matter of fact spiritually DEAD, as evidenced by his own words. There is not much use trying to revive the Dead. Only God can do that. A major problem with the World today is that, the spiritually DEAD do not know they are dead.
The Democrats are throwing so many negative changes at us, so fast, it’s very hard to keep up with it. And to veil it/minimize it, the news media throws insignificant headlines at us in hopes that our rage will be placed elsewhere, while they work hard to get these unconstitutional laws passed before even the brain-dead democratic community’s bulbs come on.
I see so many brown-nosed senators and congressman that soon my clean-smelling countryside is going to ALL smell like a pig farm.
I’m concerned about taking orders from the UN. Is anyone else?
They can call me a redneck, an extremist,an idiot, a right-wing patriot, a domestic terrorist or anything else that makes them happy, but the “fishy” smell is all coming from our “leaders”.
A second uncle is high up on the Democrat Poitico Ivory Tower. He is resigning and becoming a Republican doe to the fact that the Democrats are already auditing the dental records of all Americans. Why the dental record audit? They are figuring that we have billions of dollars of dental gold and silver in our mouths.
Just figure this, “How do they plan on getting that gold and silver out of us? “Rather spooky”, I say.
Say, didn’t they previously have committee hearings and publish the proposed legislation in the Federal Register for public comment in the pre-BO days? What happened to this part of Due Process?
And another thing that, to me, should be illegal: Tacking a much-disliked bill onto a bill that they KNOW will have to pass.
Where in hell did THAT originate? How can it be up to one or two dumbbells to be able to stick a lobby-pushed bill onto another one? If it’s a valid and good bill it should be passed on its own recognizance.
Between all of our revered democrats (who use threats) and republicans (who have no cajones) I think the USA as we knew it, is gone.
Because of all the lobby groups getting bills passed, there’s not too much left that’s legal to do in this country…..and if it IS legal, it’s heavily taxed.
For Gods sake, don’t fart or you’ll get a cap and trade tax against you.
Won’t be long till Mass Ignorance turns the world into one big prison farm. Like a dead skung loaded with maggots, those left behind will thrive in the pus, never to know, recognize or find Freedom.
What a terrific reward for all the Socialist lies.
Republicans have no cojones? What did you expect from somebody who wears a skirt?
Re; Post 33;
Whether you’re an “Old Navy Vet” or “Rear Admiral” or simple pretender - you betray your own ignorance.
“Non Sibi Sed Patriae” (Not Self, But Country) is the unofficial U.S. Navy motto - and it appears as an inscription above the main entry to the Chapel at the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis.
(So - exactly what country’s “Navy” were YOU in ???)
Re: Posts 24, 26, 28, 30 and 36;
See Post 14 above.
To repeat:
“...You and the other poster I indicated (“Boston Beaner 49”) have evidenced extremely reactionary opinions and statements that have gone way beyond the pale - ESPECIALLY the other poster - and I’m not inclined to bother with those whose prejudiced- or hate-mongering-sounding statements make the KKK look like a bunch of lily-livered liberals - if you get my drift…”
“...In truth, there’s absolutely no point in attempting to talk about political issues with blind, wholly-committed and extreme partisans who are way out on the fringe at either end of the spectrum…”
P.S.
You can add “C Roy” (or, more appropriately, “C Royd”), as another whose inane posts I find not worth responding to.
Re: Post 27;
A pretty ridiculous post:
(1.) “...You believe in neighbors and friends turning in “fishy” comments to the government…”
The email in question was referring to “errors in fact” being made by critics of the health care proposal. If any activist citizen cares to email back to the the proponents of the health care reform proposal that he/she heard a critic(s) complaining about, for example, a “death panel” - which is a total (and absurd) fabrication - I have NOTHING against ANY citizen who, in turn, informs those in charge of attempting to get approval of the health care proposal that some nincompoops are spreading such a fabrication.
(2.) “...Your “sense of community” helps reduce crime by calling the “government” and reporting that you overheard a neighbor say “I hate Obama”...”
The Neighborhood Watch community helps reduce crime when participants call the local POLICE or sheriff’s department to report suspicious or ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. I have no clue where ANYONE would come up with the absolutely inane belief that this is akin to “reporting that you overheard a neighbor say ‘I hate Obama’”.
The rest of your post is just a bunch of your very silly “interpretations” and/or supposed “assessments” that border on the hallucinatory.
Re: Post 29;
Your statement:
“...Obama’s universal health care plan is extreme. His tactic to spy on American citizens is extreme. To try to compare this to a neiborhood (sic) watch is ludicrous…”
1.) Obama DID NOT create the health care reform bill currently in negotiation; the original “bill” was prepared by a committee in the U.S. House - and to date, at least five different versions have been created in the House (2) and Senate (3). The real truth is that Obama “delegated” the creation of the original proposal to the House.
2.) If the proposal, currently in committee in the Senate, “is extreme” (for whatever reason you deem it to be?) - do you also find Medicare, the Veterans Administration health care system, the SCHIP children’s health care program and Medicaid also extreme?
3.) Your belief that Obama “is spying” on American critics of his health care reform proposal is actually one of the more ludicrous statements made here. (Were you as concerned when the Bush 43 administration was ADMITTEDLY surreptitiously monitoring people’s international telephone calls and email messaging?)
4.) And - I DID NOT originate ANYTHING to do with “Neighborhood Watch” in this thread. The author of the article above and his choice of headline is what denigrated the “Neighborhood Watch” program and inferred that it was “snitching”.
Re: Post 34;
I most certainly am NOT “defending liberals”.
I’m not defending anyone nor anything - except factuality and reality.
I am criticizing extremists who are so far out on the fringe that they become imprisoned inside their own fantasies. In the case here, the nutcase political extremists happen to be of the right-wing reactionary variety.
Your statement:
“...Our greatest weapon against lies and deception is knowing the truth…”
Far too many people have predispositions that prevent them from knowing (and accepting) the truth even when that truth is obvious - and this whole partisan health care reform backlash is mired in that very construct.
To me, the polarization and, in many cases, the hatred spawned by political extremists, if left unchecked, is a greater threat to the future of this country than are foreign terrorists.
Re: Post 40;
Your statement:
“... And another thing that, to me, should be illegal: Tacking a much-disliked bill onto a bill that they KNOW will have to pass…”
Who’s going to determine “much disliked”?
And, in fact, RIGHT NOW, if you check the records in the progress of the health care reform bill in the U.S. House - you’ll find some 160 Republican amendments tacked on to the bill and accepted by the Democrats to remain with the bill - but, in the end, NOT ONE of the Republicans who submitted those amendments VOTED FOR the bill. A similar occurrence has occurred thus far in the Senate.
So - in this instance, Republicans are tacking on a lot of amendments to the proposed health care reform bills in both chambers of Congress - and even though the Democratic majority in both chambers is accepting those amendments and is adding them to the final committee versions of the proposed legislation - the Republicans then vote against the bill as a bloc - and, therefore, vote against their own amendments.
???
RE; T K, You are right . In the Neighborhoods that we all would like to live in , the Watch is a good thing. No ,I did not miss the class. In the ‘hoods that I WORKED in, The Watch does not last long unless the Pols get involved (they do
not live there). The Watch in Drug-Hoods are out-gunned & out numbered by the BAD guys. When Chuck
“The Schmuck” Schumer was an ASS-emblyman, his Watch in the Hasidic hood, ALL got to “Carry”,but the minority Watch did NOT & were not allowed carry permits at all,,I didn’t miss THAT class,either. “Chucky” is carrying one NOW,so is his entourage. When it comes to guns,if everyone is allowed to carry, then the bad guys do NOT know who to rob,,it’s a proven fact,(FBI)but “The
One” & Holder etc.will never allow it,God forbid!
Re: Post 51;
I never had any experience with Neighborhood Watch in crime-ridden, inner-city neighborhoods.
In my instances, the neighborhoods were generally pretty well-off suburban neighborhoods where the worst crime was an infrequent residential breaking-and-entering - generally when the homeowners were not at home.
Otherwise, the program seemed to have had a good three-fold effect: (a.) it was a reason/excuse to draw neighborhood people together and allow people to get to know one another; (b.) it definitely helped to keep a lid on rambunctious behavior by rowdy teenagers; and (c.) it helped develop a non-emergency, person-to-person relationship between the people in the neighborhood and the specific policemen who patrolled it.
RE Post #52;
Being born and raised in an inner city neighborhood, I know all about Neighborhood Watch. There were the guys with the red shirts and hats and the green shirts and hats. Gold chains with anchors and sign language galore.
As for organized gang/thug neighborhood watch for the whole nation; that is a pile of crapp. I had to pay inner city watch for protetion, now I have to pay Obamahood watch too?
What a filthy crooked rackett! Obamawatch will be a “Hold up”! This Goon is gonna break the bank.
The thieving Obama Administration must give up stealing and learn to labor and work honestly with their own hands, so as to give to the needy true leadership.
Re: Post 54;
Who do you think might have been the last president who actually “labored and worked honestly with his own hands” full-time before he became president?
(And, keep in mind, many of the “needy” (in fact, most of the neediest) are children, the disabled and the aged - who absolutely cannot “labor and work honestly with their own hands”.)
Every President before Clinton.
Obama is NOT a Leader, he is a thief.
Re: Post 56;
First, I think you probably ought to read up on your presidential biographies. (Do you really think that, say, Bush 41, “labored and worked honestly with his hands” in some full-time job on his trip to the presidency?)
Second, would you care to provide some conclusive evidence, together with necessary and relevant corroboration, that Obama, in fact, “is a thief”?
You can be a mindless Obama-hater if you so choose but, in truth, Obama is currently and legally the duly-elected “leader” of the U.S. government and, as the legal “Commander-In-Chief”, he is also obviously the constitutionally-delegated “leader” of all U.S. military forces.
If you don’t like the guy, his politics and his political party, at least enumerate some specific, real-world and relevant reasons - instead of simply degenerating into childish and partisan name-calling.
TK,
You seem to be rather fond of the word “I”.
Beating up on the ladies every time they speak their mind seems a favorite of yours too.
Re: # 57 - <<<“You can be a mindless Obama-hater if you so choose but, in truth, Obama is currently and legally the duly-elected “leader” of the U.S. government and, as the legal “Commander-In-Chief”, he is also obviously the constitutionally-delegated “leader” of all U.S. military forces.”>>>
Wrong, TK.
There is nothing ‘legal’ about this deceiver’s usurpation of the presidency. He has not provided legal proof that he’s constitutionally eligible for the office. Just because the corrupt power structure decreed him eligible to run for ‘president’, that still does not make it so. We are not supposed to be living in a dictatorship where those in power ignore or subvert our laws for their convenience.
I’ll never refer to this fraud as president until he releases his personal records verifying his eligibility.
Obama may be the APPOINTED leader of the government, but he certainly is NOT a leader of people.
He may be the APPOINTED Commander In Chief of the armed forces, But they do not listen to him because he has NO leadership ability. Commander In Chiefs like Obama are the sort of failure that gets Soldiers, Airmen, Navy, and Marines killed.
What a wad of spunk!
Re: Post 59:
Your comment:
“...There is nothing ‘legal’ about this deceiver’s usurpation of the presidency…”
Pure, unadulterated, extremist speculation - or fanciful wishful-thinking.
(There’s a constitutional provision to “legally” resolve the issue of “eligibility” - and NO ONE in the GOP leadership (or any “birther”, for that matter) has formally activated that provision nor has any of the leadership supported formally doing so. You’re beating a dead horse like the rest of your fellow ideologues.)
TK,
Do you like killing, or do you just like to watch
What country are you typing from? Cambodia?
Back off Beaner! TK is one of my main lieutenants.
And don’t you forget it!
Big Brother Number One
Re: #62 - <<<“There’s a constitutional provision to “legally” resolve the issue of “eligibility” - and NO ONE in the GOP leadership (or any “birther”, for that matter) has formally activated that provision nor has any of the leadership supported formally doing so.”>>>
When those in government ignore it’s own laws, then you have tyranny.
So apparently, you support the tyranny that both parties are engaging in, in not legally resolving Obama’s eligibility, and yet label me as an ‘ideologue’ for simply calling them on it.
You really are a low-life creep, TK.
Re: Post 65;
And you, of course, are some really enlightened, intellectually honest, paragon of virtue and Keeper of The Only Real Word?
You strangle yourself in your own twisted version of logic - and then you degenerate into name-calling to defend the errors of your own foolish ways? Typical.
And, your statement that the “government ignores its own laws” is simple-minded and senseless.
The relevant and duly-constituted authorities in the respective state governments, following their relevant state statutes and requirements of the constitution relating to determining “presidential eligibility”, apparently determined that Obama was eligible to be a candidate for the presidency in accordance with the Constitution and respective state election statutes.
There is NO LAW that ALSO stipulates that any of those so-authorized to make those determinations MUST also engage the judicial process which is also consititutionally-provided to resolve a CHALLENGE to one’s eligibility to be president.
The respective Secretaries of State make the initial determination in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution using the legally-acceptable evidentiary materials specified to ascertain eligibility to be on the ballot and serve in the office in question.
And - the relevant Constitutionally-specified judicial process is the procedure to be followed if someone then CHOOSES TO CHALLENGE those official decisions which previously certified the eligibility of the candidate in question.
The “government” of each state ostensibly followed those prescribed procedures for determining the candidate’s eligibility for purposes of being on the ballot in that state. The judicial process is provided for THOSE WHO MAY CHOOSE TO CHALLENGE THOSE ELIGIBILITY DECISIONS.
Obviously, the political opposition in this instance, the McCain Campaign and the Republican National Committee, and the acknowledged leaders within the Republican Party - LONG AGO DETERMINED THERE ARE NO GROUNDS, OR THERE ARE INSUFFICIENT GROUNDS, on which to challenge those multiple authorities and decisions which certified Obama’s eligibility for the presidency IN ACCORDANCE WITH CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENTS and respective state election statutes.
And your statement:
“...When those in government ignore it’s own laws, then you have tyranny…”
When there are no laws - or when existing laws are being ignored - you have ANARCHY, Dearie - NOT tyranny!
“Tyranny” refers to oppressive or cruel rule; “Anarchy” refers to lack of government or lawlessness. Got it?
And, Queenie, Best Wishes on getting down from that high and horse of yours!
TK,
You really should find some place whith your own people to chat. We are Americans talking here.
BB
Blow it out your rear beaner. TK is one of our finest.
Cheers TK!
Big Brother Number One
Re: (#66) - <<<“You strangle yourself in your own twisted version of logic - and then you degenerate into name-calling to defend the errors of your own foolish ways?”>>>
Oh, pardon me, TK, for trampling on your delicate sensibilities.
I forgot - you n-e-v-e-r resort to calling people names here.
Oh yeah, great ‘copy and paste’ job in your rationalization of the usurper’s ‘eligibility’.
Boy, you really set me straight on that one!
Still doesn’t explain your idol’s continued legal resistance in preventing his personal records from being released to the public….Oh, pardon me again for that outburst of logic.
Well, nice try, Creep.
By the way…....“Dearie”??
Sorry TK, you may be into other guys, but not me, thank you.
Re: Post 69;
Your comment:
“... By the way…....“Dearie”?? ...”
Pardon me. Recently, I’ve had the impression that you were probably a girl, young woman, etc.
My comment:
“... You strangle yourself in your own twisted version of logic - and then you degenerate into name-calling to defend the errors of your own foolish ways? ...”
That’s what you did - and it had nothing to do with my sensibilities - only your inability to see the shortcomings of your particular brand of logic and reasoning.
P.S.
When someone engages in name-calling at me - I generally return the favor.
P.P.S.
There is NO LOGIC to expecting Obama to release any of his so-called “records”. He and his party won - and NONE of the opposition nor the election authorities challenged his eligibility originally - nor are any of the GOP big wigs doing so now. For all intents and purposes, he was duly certified. What kind of logic says he should cater to or respond to this issue now - or, especially, to participate in possibly bearing witness against himself?
As I’ve said: You and logic are often total strangers to each other.
T.K., you are still a pompous, patronizing hockey puck. Defending an incompetent administration that can’t even run the “cash for clunkers” program is not what this country needs.
In any event, how much do you want to bet that congress will include itself in the program it want to shove down our throats?
TK is very glib and self focused. Nothing worth reading from his direction. Too self loving and hateful!
TK - #70
(In response to your rational on Obama’s continued resistance to releasing his personal records) -
I GIVE UP!!!!
Why give up? True Americans have just begun to rise up and take America back from the Red Rage.
re: #74
Not to worry, Boston.
My ‘giving up’ only pertained to getting a rational answer from TK concerning the usurper’s expensive legal resistance to releasing his personal records.
Just a bit of exasperation on my part as to the incredible depth of childishness this individual will sink to in his ‘defense of the indefensible’.
The last sentence of his post #70 is a textbook example of ‘projection’, if ever there was one.
<<<“True Americans have just begun to rise up and take America back from the Red Rage.”>>>
You’re certainly right on that.
The 2010 mid-term election results will turn out to be the best indicator of how much this parasite in the White House had overplayed his hand. And perhaps 2012 will be the year we finally elect the 44th POTUS, since right now, we are in a constitutional vacuum, despite what the rulers decree.
RE Post #75,
Right on Brother Neo-conned,
Together we True Americans will by the millions work together to repair our country. Communism/Socialism will again be refered to as indications of failure and worthlessenss.
We are nation that deserves better than what the Democrat miscreants have spewed amongst us.
Re: Post 73;
The extreme partisanship and political polarization that exists in this country today absolutely establishes that there is no logic whatsoever to “the winners” ever condescending to the wishes, preferences or demands of “the losers” - ESPECIALLY if it’s only a tiny group among the losers who are making the demand.
If you think otherwise - then, following your logic, why didn’t Bush 43 magnanimously request that the State of Florida do a statewide recount in the election of 2004 - simply to satisfy those DEMs who suspected the election results were fraudulant?
TK,
What country are you blogging from. Why do you have such a strong desire to disrupt the peacfull harmony here in America?
Cambodia?
Re: Post 75;
Just about every modern newly-elected president of either party has seen his party lose seats in congress in the next mid-term election. The average seat loss runs up to about nine in the Senate and up to about twenty in the House. The deal today, given the obscene partisanship and polarization that exists, is that such occurrences simply move the minority-party obstructionism from one side of the aisle to the other.
Government in this country is slowly becoming almost totally gridlocked over the last fifteen years in particular due to out-of-control partisanship.
As currently construed today, BOTH major political parties SUCK!
TK (# 77) - <<<“The extreme partisanship and political polarization that exists in this country today absolutely establishes that there is no logic whatsoever to “the winners” ever condescending to the wishes, preferences or demands of “the losers” - ESPECIALLY if it’s only a tiny group among the losers who are making the demand.”>>>
How do you explain then, his legal efforts to prevent the release of his personal records prior to the election?
Also, had there not been a media blackout on the birth certificate issue, especially before the election, I doubt that the group of dissenters would have been “tiny” in size.
There’s no comparison between a close election that was played out in 2000 before the public’s eyes, with it’s recounts and court battles, and a presidential candidate hiding his personal records and being aided by a media blackout.
If Obama releases his personal records and they are verified by qualified forensic analysts, I would then acknowledge him as our 44th President.
TK, you have got to be kidding. You think we are all stupid and lazy, right?
Neo-conned,
Depends on whose verified forensic alalysists, and what their political drift is. If Obama was a man, he would confess and step down immediately, staff included. All his decisions and appointments reversed too.
We want a Man for a President, not a flowery coward.
re: #79 - <<<“Just about every modern newly-elected president of either party has seen his party lose seats in congress in the next mid-term election.”>>>
That is true, however, I can’t recall a modern-day administration taking the kind of walloping that Clinton took in the ‘94 midterms. He reneged on his middle-class tax cut and instead, imposed the largest, retroactive tax increase on the public along with Hillary’s nationalized health care, and the Democrats paid dearly for it. I never saw the MSM look so glum as they did the day after those midterms.
I see the stage being set for this to happen again.
The possibility of electronic voting machine fraud may end up being the Republicans biggest obstacle.
correction (#83) -
“...ATTEMPTED to impose Hillary’s nationalized health care.”
Boston Beaner 49 - (#82) <<<“Depends on whose verified forensic analyst, and what their political drift is”>>>
I understand your concern about this, which is why sites such as newswithviews, Joseph Farah of WorldNetDaily, and Cliff Kincaid would inform its viewers of any suspicious activities concerning the analysis or the credibility of the analyzers. Their investigative reporting, in my opinion, is top-notch.
However, your comment about Obama’s lack of manhood is probably the reason why he likely won’t release his records.
Re: #73
If you check your records, you’ll find that no less than six (6) MSM org’s. went down to Fla. to do their own recount. Every last one of them showed Bush to be the winner. Not surprisingly, there was very little mention of it other than The Washington Times and the WSJ.
As for the rest, you never hear of “the tyranny of the majority” unless the GOP is in power.
Until the Democrat Cancer is put in remission, there will be no return to respect and support of the Constitution and solid constitutional procedure.
The Democrats believe the Constitution to be their foe not their friend.
Ah, no, the lefties LOVE the constitution - they just reinterpret it to suit their own agenda. See Roe v. Wade, Miranda v. Arizona, and other gems of the Warren Court. These decisions have some good in them.
The problem the lefties ignore is that all that is good is not necessarily constitutional, and all that is constitutional is not necessarily good.
Re: Post 80;
Your question:
“... How do you explain then, his legal efforts to prevent the release of his personal records prior to the election? ...”
I do not know that to be the case.
But, if there were “legal” efforts to withhold records, why wouldn’t the opposition take note, “suspect” something, and engage in formally challenging his “presidential eligibility” via the Constitutionally-provided process ???
(Also: “legal” may not be any more involved than putting one’s name on the federal “Do Not Call” list - and there are several newish privacy laws enacted since the late ‘90s that REQUIRE personal records to be withheld unless release is specifically authorized by the subject of the records - school, health, financial, IRS, driving are but a few.)
There is also the question: Is there actually a STATUTORY REQUIREMENT for a presidential candidate to release personal data (other than the required financial disclosure forms) to include school grades, passport application, driving records, etc.?
If not - and recalling that Bush 43’s controversial military reserve records were mysteriously permanently “missing” - my reaction would be - “If I don’t HAVE to do it by law - I’m NOT going to do it!
I think you underestimate the level of extremely resistant partisanship that has developed since the Election of 1994.
Re: Post 83;
I’m not certain that Clinton’s congressional majority switch-over in the mid-term ‘94 election is even close to being one of the biggest such reversals.
First of all, only about 39% of registered voters actually voted - and the vast majority of the turnout was southern white guys and the Religious
Right - in the traditionally Red states.
The swing in the House was some 54 out of 435 seats - less than a 13% change; in the Senate, it was a swing of only 8 seats - 8%. And, I believe with the exception of one term somewhere along the way, the DEMs had controlled the House for the previous 72 years. So - the law of averages would seem to say the GOPs would have to win a majority sooner or later.
Anyway - as far as the Obama administration is concerned - regardless of what else happens - if the economy is in a significant rebound by the 2010 elections - and if unemployment is way down from its high water mark - chances are pretty good the DEMs will do well at the polls.
In truth, however, the so-called “majority” in Congress is doing Obama little good now - simply because it’s “Blue Dog DEMs” who are the stumbling block with the proposed health care legislation - not the GOPs. The Democratic Party, unlike the GOPs, is clearly more well known for its divisions rather than its unity.
Either way, regardless of which party is in the majority, the game in Congress today, especially in the Senate, seems to be “Do Nothing”!
In my opinion, BOTH political parties, as currently constituted, SUCK - equally!
Re: Post 81;
I think many people here, to one degree or another, are very probably highly ideologically-committed, right-wing partisans.
And some do post some incredibly stupid-sounding, off-the-wall, and totally outlandish things.
I wouldn’t know anything about nor have any opinion on your “lazy” supposition.
re: #89 - <<<“But, if there were “legal” efforts to withhold records, why wouldn’t the opposition take note, “suspect” something, and engage in formally challenging his “presidential eligibility” via the Constitutionally-provided process ???”>>>
That’s easy.
Because the GOP is corrupt and/or cowardly to the core. That is why, even if I predict a likely GOP landslide in 2010, that things won’t change all that much for the better in the long run.
Despite the fact though, that both parties allowed Obama’s candidacy to go through by passive decree, Obama will, nonetheless, be viewed by many as being a usurper for his lack of magnanimity in stubbornly refusing to put this issue to an end.
As citizens, we have to submit more proof of our identity in renewing our drivers licenses than Obama has done in running for the highest office of the land. I don’t have to know every single thing about the guy, just that he’s constitutionally eligible to run. His past senate voting record sufficiently revealed his politics, which meant that I could never vote for him, however, I would have accepted him as my president.
If you don’t see anything wrong with this picture, TK, than maybe you should take a good look in the mirror sometime and tell us what you see. I certainly don’t share your questionable morals, because if my fantasy candidate, Ron Paul, ever attempted such sordid deceit on this country, I would have deemed him a sociopath; someone with a sick, distorted sense of self-entitlement.
Neo-conned,
Are you and TK the same person? You two are gradually sounding more alike with each of your posts.
This country was formed as a “More Perfect Union”. Both of you deny that and the Constitution that is…............
Re: Post 92;
Your statement:
“... Because the GOP is corrupt and/or cowardly to the core. That is why, even if I predict a likely GOP landslide in 2010, that things won’t change all that much for the better in the long run ...”
I agree fully.
I have already said that I believe BOTH major political parties, as currently constituted, SUCK (equally)!
When Clinton took office, there were 39 registered lobbyists in D.C.; today, the number is somewhere in the vicinity of 43,000! EVERY congressional politician COUNTS on these lobbyists for campaign money and “perks” (maybe more so in the House than in the Senate) - and the political game in both parties ends up being “mollify the lobbyists” - and DO NOT DO ANYTHING that might piss any of them or their “employers” off.
And, of course, most of the lobbyists represent commercial interests - so - it’s business that gets the attention - rather than the people. And, of course, with the advent of an now incredible level of ideological partisanship - there is no more “common good”.
Your comment:
“... If you don’t see anything wrong with this picture, TK, than maybe you should take a good look in the mirror sometime and tell us what you see ...”
Certainly there may have been something “wrong” in the original picture - and there was a time and a provision for the issue to be raised by those with an opposing interest and the authority to raise it. They did not - and, apparently, will not now. So, consequently, it’s a dead issue.
Beyond that, if it was me, and especially if I saw that the leaders in my opposition were not raising the issue - I would most certainly treat it as finished business and I would not voluntarily go any further.
Naturally - if I was Obama and I knew myself to possibly be “ineligible”, I sure wouldn’t do anything to incriminate myself; and if I knew the opposite, I would withhold the certifying documentation until such time as the occasion might arise where I could make the opposition look ESPECIALLY foolish - and VERY wrong - by revealing it!
And - where in society today do you regularly see “magnanimity” today? Certainly it no longer exists (if it ever did) in politics nor in today’s idea of “public service”.
For me, while I REALLY prefer “the good old days”, politically-speaking, and given the existing levels of partisanship and corruption today, I believe the only practical alternative is that one has to be a realist and a pragmatist. Essentially (and unfortunately) I think “it is what it is” and one has to learn to “deal with it”.
I do think there are some statutory measures that could be employed to reduce the effects of partisanship, the influence of paid lobbyists and their effect on political campaigns, and the general corruption that exists - but neither of the two existing political parties in power are ever going to take those steps.
connie (#93) - <<<“Are you and TK the same person? You two are gradually sounding more alike with each of your posts.”>>>
I have no idea what you mean, connie.
I’ve pressed TK on Obama’s eligibility several times in various threads. If us ‘sounding more alike’ pertains to my agreement with him of the Republican’s culpability in letting Obama slide during the last election, then maybe you can provide a rational?
Because, for the life of me, I cannot understand why they would throw away such a ‘smoking gun’ issue which could have cost Obama the election.
“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide the common defense, promote the general welfare,and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America”.
Dose anyone here have a problem with this quote?
Thank you,
BB
Re: #97 -
Not I, Boston.
I think you just ended my day on a perfect note.
If TK and Neo are the same person, then clearly, Connie and B-Beaner are the same person. Obviously.
August 6 at 10:23 am | #1 | Link
Obama is creating an environment where no one is safe, but only the government. We are being hurded and controlled like cattle for the government’s use. Obamas people do not see us as people,he sees us as a worthless herd of cattle that is eating up the worlds resourses.
Neighibor is turning in neighbor, family is turning in family as if we are all worthless, paracitic vagrant cattle.