The intermix of religion and politics is extremely dangerous to the health of American democracy. When one type of religion – for example, Protestant fundamentalism – gets associated with one wing of one party, that’s even more dangerous. Let’s hope that this stupidity, bad for religion and for politics, is a thing of the past. Look what happened to Romney. Are you paying attention Mr. Kincaid?

These are radicals, not telirious left as you try to portray them.  They do not know, nor follow the Bible but their own New Age interpretation of it.  These deceivers will get to heaven and find He knows them not.  Brian, who are you to try and tell people they must leave their morals at home when it comes to politics.  You serve a wicked master who like you lies when you say my faith has no place in politics or my decisions.  It is because of people like you that this country is screwed up.  There is no such thing as separation of church and state in our founding documents, so quit with the liberal lies and do some research.  You can get a copy of the documents at http://www.heritage.org and check for yourself.  So try to find the truth and think because you show yourself to be a moron when you don’t.

As a Protestant Fundamentalist I believe in God, the sanctity of life, the traditional definition of marriage, that sex outside a traditional marriage is sin, and the Constitution, as it was written. 

As I see the “religious” left, they believe in Darwin, abortion on demand, marriage however you want to define it, sex whenever, however, and with whomever you want, and the Constitution as interpreted to fit the moment.

Which group sounds more dangerous?

Oh that we only had more Protestant Fundamentalists.

It is written that many shall come in Jesus name, they are False prophets and false christians.
Those who mislead their followers will be especially miserable of judgement day, those who invoke His name and deny His power.

MY OPINON ONLY:

Religious Left:  “I believe in God, but……”

Religious right:  “But I believe in God.”

Guess it depends upon where the but is.

Yeah, let’s use religion to create even more divisiveness and moronic partisanship than already exists!  “The Religious Left”?  Anyone care to define that terminology (without showing their own religious bigotry – as in Post 2 above)?

I think ALL religious fundamentalism carried to the extreme (think Muslim ‘suicide bomber’, Japanese ‘kamikaze’, Christian ‘crusader’, et al) is bad – and I’m also pretty sure that nowhere in the Bible does it say good Christians should ‘believe in the Consitution as written’.

One of the real questions of history is whether more wars have been fought because of religion or because of economics.  After decades of studying history, I have no doubt whatsoever that the answer is religion.

Brian Sullivan, in Post 1 above, hits the nail squarely on the head.

Ya know TK, I just lost several thoughtful paragraphs in response to your question. I’ve decided not to re-compose them. Your candidate says he will unite us as a nation. That is impossible because he and you are on the other end of the spectrum from me, and I don’t care what you think.
History expert? I don’t think so.

Amen Brothers and Sisters. Let’s not get too carried away. I fact that the Slave holding South had a stronger Biblical backing from Biblical readings than the anti-slavery people should be cautionary to us all. There was NOWHERE in the Bible where we are told slavery is evil. Only that slaves shouldn’t be abused and mistreated unnecessarily. So Literalists and Originalists beware. You may be hoist on your own petard. Separation of Church and State is one of the finest concepts of our nation. Let’s each be responsible for his/her own lives and stop trying to jam ‘Morality’ as on or another sees it down the throats of others. Bravo Brian and TK.

The Oxford Dictionary has as one definition of religion: A pursuit or interest followed with devotion.
 
Therefore I submit the following definition for the Religious Left: Humanism, Darwinism, Socialism, Marxism, Communism. 

Take your pick.

To say that wars have been fought largely because of religion is meaningless dribble and seems to be used mainly as an attack against people of faith.

Have you morons actually read the Constitution? It does not read protection “from” religion, it is protection “for” religions. There is no separation of church and state. You have the right to your own autonomy. I have the right to present Gods morality in the public arena. Just as you candidate Obama and his lapdog media shuts down dissent, it will take a firing squad to silence my voice.
History expert? Read the constitution and maybe some biographys of our founding fathers. [just for intent]
The founding fathers in spite of their shortcomings, frequently referred to the Bible for wisdom.

To Philip B. Adams, Post 7;

Ideological partisans cannot be united.

Check with any historians of your choosing to find the generally-accepted professional opinions on the most frequent cause(s) of war.

Going back at least three years, MY favorite candidates for this election were Pat Buchanan and Colin Powell – and when they weren’t included among the original list of candidates, my favorite became Ron Paul.  When he didn’t make the cut – I was left without a “favorite”.  (However, I must say that Sarah Palin is my most “UNfavorite” candidate of ALL time!)

Ideological political extremists, those “out there at the ends of the spectrum”, are a greater danger to the future well-being of this country than are Muslim terrorists.

To Protestant Fundamentalist, Post 9;

Your “definition” turns “golf” into a “religion”!

And, in case you missed it back in Civics class, Socialism, Marxism and Communism are “political philosophies”, far different from what is generally accepted by scholars as a “religion”.

Further, I would hope that there’s some “humanism”, or compassion, or a “golden rule”, in each of the world’s major religions.

And, Darwinism is a generally-accepted scientific theory that has no inherent connection to religion whatsoever.

If your “protestant fundamentalism” holds that all other perspectives and forms of religious belief are “false” or “untrue”, that what YOU believe is the ONLY “truth”, that ONLY YOUR religion matters in this world, then what you maintain to be your almighty “faith” – - is nothing but nickle-and-dime bigotry.  Prejudice.  Religious racism.

TK: I am loosing posts before I complete them. Twice now after considered responses. In as much as I enjoy the debate, it will be another time. So post away.

The gospel of life was not for the pseudo intellectual. You have read too many historical revisionists. I will sign off with this quote.

He chose the lowly things of his world & the despised things and the things that are not, to nullify the things that are. I Cor. 1:28

To Philip B. Adams, Post 13;

I grew up in a very religious family, and have remained for decades, a very religious person.  In fact, I attended religious schools and actually even taught at a religious school.  I do admit, though, that my belief is often stronger than my practice.

However, I do believe that extremism of any kind is bad, whether it be political, cultural or religious extremism – and there is no doubt that much of the warfare in mankind’s history has been over religious differences.  Even today, religious fundamentalism has resulted in political systems evey bit as bad for the people as would be communism, e.g., modern Iran.

TK

Back in my college days I used to drink in a bar named TK.  Maybe that is where you were conceived.

Anyway the definition of religion was not mine it is one of three offered by the online Oxford dictionary.  But then what the hell are facts to the psuedo-intellectual.

Have you never heard about the golfer who pursues his game religously?

Your posts are a lot like Brian Sullivan.  Are you two a couple?

To demand that religion be totally separated from the public dialog is the worst kind of extremism.

To Protestant Fundamentalist, Post 15;

It’s pretty apparent that, during your college years, you probably spent more time in that bar than in classes.

And, of course, your deep Christian respect for others and your fundamental observance of The Golden Rule is also apparent in your post.

Next time you’re trying to learn something by reading the dictionary, try looking up “hypocrite”.

Dominus vobiscum.

In terms of what is good or bad for American democracy, as well as for all forms of religion, I think many of the previous comments help to prove my point in my original comment. Many comments seemed based on the notion that religion equates with Christianity. But the Constitution protects the rights of all religions as well as those who practise none. The Bible enjoys no superiority over the Koran under American law. Likewise, Jews, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Bahais, Jains etc. and, for that matter, Voodooists, have equal protection under the law. In other words, the Constitution protects religions that are condemned by Biblical concepts as paganism or idol worship. And the Bible itself is unknown to most Americans, since the great majority cannot read either Hebrew or Koine Greek. What most read is a translation of the Bible and the various texts differ, especially between Catholic and Protestant texts.
This is why mixing religion with politics is so dangerous. To confuse morality with legality leads to violence, since notions of morality differ from religion to religion. Even more to the point, greater and greater numbers of non-Christians are legally entering the US and becoming citizens. (Most illegal immigrants, being Latinos, are Christians by the way.) To give some sort of special status to Christianity (and which kind?) only endangers Christianity in the long run. Consider what has happened to all established churches in Europe.

And with you.

To Brian R. Sullivan, Post 17;

I generally agree with your statement.

Personally, however, I believe the founders’ point of view in framing the Constitution was to guarantee “freedom FROM religion”.

After all, the Pilgrims came to America to be “free from” the various “national religions” in Western Europe, especially in England.

Then, however, their “Puritanism” in the their Massachusetts colony became so strict, so stifling and so dictatorial that, as a consequence, more reasonable colonial leaders such as Roger Williams, Thomas Hooker, Ethan Allen, John Mason and Samuel Oglethorpe left the Puritans’ Massachusetts Bay Colony – to found colonies (later states) of their own, primarily to be “free from” Puritanism and/or to allow colonists to be free to practice a religion other than Puritanism.

Consequently, it seems apparent that “freedom from” an “established” religion was construct proved by experience that the authors of the Consitution intended.

Therefore, and while I am a lifelong believer and practitioner of a Christian faith, I believe, as Barry Goldwater did, that true “conservativism” should NOT allow itself to be influenced by religion (or, more particularly, by the Religious Right) since, as he held, religion has no place in politics nor in government.

I do believe the Ten Commandments are a universal set of precepts that all major western religions recognize in some form or other and are the basis of law in the western world, so I have no problem with the Commandments appearing in schools, courthouses, or other public places.

And, since I believe in majority rule, and the majority of the country is Christian, I see nothing wrong with recognizing Christian tradition and heritage in the standard ways, Christmas, Easter, etc., as an integral part of American culture and tradition.  And, I wouldn’t mind the teaching of American religious history or even the history of the world’s religions in public schools. 

But, religion should NOT be made an inherent component part of our system of politics or government.  And very specific religious tenets should NOT be codified into our laws in ways that the Puritans infused the governance of all colonists (whether believers or not) with strict Puritan religious beliefs and practices.

Religious belief to a reasonable degree (extremism in all things is bad) is good for all of us in innumerable ways – but its beliefs and practices should clearly be separate from politics and secular governance.

Dear Protestant Fundamentalist,
What HAS happened to me? And, if anything has, what would YOU know about it?
Brian R. Sullivan

Just a note to all. If your submissions get lost in the sending as mine have occasionally, just copy and hold the text before ‘sending’ and if they don’t go through just paste them for a second try. But recopy once again before resending. It is frustrationg to write your heart out and loose it. Any how I think many of us are confusing our moral codes with our particular ‘religion’. As an Atheist, I have it a bit easier. I believe in the golden rule and if I can practice that sufficiently well I find little else to concern me. As far as various aspects of any particular religous code such as worrying about gays, or abortion, etc. I find that I’m better seved by just trying to care for the folks who are on the planet now. That’s hard enough.