It’s my bet he loses his cool even more. I have had this feeling in my gut, since he came on the scene, that this man, Obama is one hell of an anger filled tyrant. Dollars to donuts his paybacks are going to be the worst we could even imagine. Don’t know why really Don, but I don’t believe this man has anything but evil up his sleeve.

This shouldn’t be a surprise.  Washington became Chicago on January 20th.

“…if he can get the economy back on track which won’t be easy…”

No Nation has ever taxed itself into prosperity…

The man is nothing short of a megalomaniac, he is not just satisfied being an American President (and a bad on), he is intent on destroying everything this country is about, and becoming a world leader if not the leader of the World. The Constitution means nothing to him, with the exception of things he is unable enforce. This is why he wants the Constitution changed.

When challenged, he is like a cry baby, and throws a temper tantrum.

And for the first time in her adult life, momma big hips is proud of her country.

Personally, I want him out of office NOW, and I want this entire aberration in American history to be overwith and corrected ASAP before things slip away any further.  He and his ilk have insulted and damaged this country enough already, and their plans for the future should frighten anyone that knows what it means to be American.

An equally dangerous problem, in my opinion, is the millions of citizens and voters that really don’t know what’s going on because they know essentially nothing about history, thanks to dumbed-down school systems. 

We are getting very far away from the America our founders envisioned and worked so hard to create.  It’s time to get it back.

As a retired Marine I am very concerned about BO being our Cmd-in-Chief.  He is so far removed from what this country is founded on it’s borders on insanity.  I hope many join Alan Keyes in getting this socialist out of office. This guy make Hillary, almost, look good.

Two weeks ago, an Alabama Army National Guard soldier refused to serve under a President without proof he was a natural citizen. Since obama refuses to show nothing but a Certificate of Live Birth, which only in Hawaii and Florida use for the purpose of one parent being an American while the other is not, or a citizen who holds dual citizenship. It gives the child the right to vote, get drivers license, social security, passports and such. But it DOES NOT allow or that child to become President of the Untied States.

He has gone to court to have his Birth Certificate and his records from Columbia University sealed, so what is he afraid of? I call him the Usurper in Chief.

Now we find out from House Republicans while working on the Heath Care Bill, hidden was a provision for Tax Payer Abortions.

His plans are so radical, they should be taken out of the House and Senate, and put to a popular vote. My friends, we as a country have never been in this bad of shape, if these bills pass we will enter another Great Depression, only worse.

While I’m reminded to pray for those leading our beloved country, I CANNOT PRAY for the Prez’s policies. In a nutshell, the Prez’s socialist policy is: ‘From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.’ Simply stated, this is right out of the Marxist playbook!! Plus, our government, led by the Prez and his majority in the Congress are destroying any semblence of Government being ‘user-friendly’ toward business. Not to mention the Prez and the Congress being led around by the ‘powers behind the throne,’ called, the Federal Reserve Bank Of The United States. Where in the name is Philander Knox is an Andrew Jackson type? We need him NOW, lest our beloved nation be lost forever SOON!

I agree with all of the previous comments. Well said folks !!  He is a power hungry, spoiled, egotistical Marxist.  His followers should wake up as he is hypnotizing them into continuing to follow him blindly….and when they know too much and have outlived their usefulness & they turn on him….they will be lined up and shot just like ….you know where.

Do this search:  “obama”+“marxist” and you will see the history of his brainwashing from when he was a child by Frank Marshall Davis.  He was raised to hate America, to follow Marxist philosophy, and to have capitalism. I did my research before the election. It’s all out there folks, everything about him and no one did there homework.  I call this a Hollywood election – people voting on a person’s charm & looks !!!  He sure has extreme, revolutionary intentions.  AMERICA has supported the whole world since it was founded – donating $$$ and protecting countries from tyrants like him.  USA has created 80 % of the worldwide jobs in the past 5 decades. AND now he is apologizing for it !  Dems are dangerous !!

When you have a Prez who is a Marxist, and Stewart Smalley (a.k.a.) Franken gets falsely elected to the Senate we know we are in trouble.

Quite frankly, we are looking at a man who is in favor of a world government. This explains why he had DHS issue a Domestic Terrorist memo, which includes our returning soldiers. So it does not surprise me that he wants all guns banned.

The records from the Federal Reserve have been sealed, lawsuits are being filed to release them under the Freedom of Information Act. Even the House and Senate are not allowed to view them.

Those in this country who still support him either hate this country as much as our so called prez, or are they just stupid, which includes the Mainstream Media who are not reporting this crap to the masses, all we have is Fox News, Talk Radio and some Internet sites.

What is he waiting for, his 72 Virgins?

“The links between European fascism and Nazism of the mid-twentieth century and the blend
of nationalism, socialism and anti-Semitism in the Washington regime have generally
received much too little attention.”

The references in some of the above posts regarding Obama’s constitutional ineligibility for POTUS, which I agree with since he’s adamant about not releasing his long form birth certificate and other documents, made me wonder again, why the Republicans wouldn’t bring up this issue. It’s understandable that the left-wing MSM won’t discuss it, and even that Fox News which is owned by globalist and CFR member Ruport Murdoch won’t allow any discussion on this topic. But why not the Republican Party?

The only answer I can come up with is that they fear that the Obama camp may then bring up McCain’s ineligibility as well. After all, from what I’ve read about McCain, he’s technically a naturalized citizen, and not a natural born citizen (as the Constitution requires of presidential candidates).

That could then make the past election invalid and the requirement for a new presidential election to take place?

There are a lot of people out there that would love to have a “Do Over” in this last election.  As a retired Marine Corps Captain and Viet Nam Vet, I resent his lack of personal support for the troops.  There have been many reported incidents where our lame Cmd-in-Chief has chosen not to take the time to stop and visit and thank the troops for their service. But….. why should he, he has never in his life supported the troops, no surprise there. My blood runs cold when I see his feable attempt of a sulute when exiting Marine One as he has a clue of what a sulte is.

I CHOOSE FREEDOM WROTE “Do this search:  “obama”+“marxist” and you will see the history of his brainwashing from when he was a child by Frank Marshall Davis.”

Virtually the only reason such a search will produce any reference to Davis is the disinformation campaign by AIM starting with “Obama’s Communist Mentor.”  I challenge you to produce any primary source evidence to support this false accusation.

This disinformation campaign fits the pattern where Nazis deliberately misrepresented the Jews, the Bush administration deliberately misrepresented Iraq, and now conservatives disgracefully, despicably,  and deliberately misrepresent Frank Marshall Davis, all to justify their attacks on Barack Obama with false accusations.

Although “I’m hardly interested in proving my research to Kincaid or any of those whose work is a travesty to scholarship,” University of Kansas Professor Edgar Tidwell, whom AIM’s Cliff Kincaid cites as “an expert on the life and writings of Davis,” dismisses misrepresentation of Davis’s influence in one simple paragraph: 

“Although my research indicates that Davis joined the CPUSA as a “closet member” during World War II, there is no evidence that he was a Stalinist, or even a Party member before WWII.  Further, to those attempting to make the specious stand for the concrete, there is no evidence that he instructed Barack Obama in communist ideology.  Frank Marshall Davis did NOT believe in overthrowing the USA.  He was committed to what the nation professed to be. For him, communism was primarily an intellectual vehicle to achieve a political end-a possible tool for gaining the constitutional freedoms of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for ALL Americans”

Ferrel: Try C-in-C.  Or at least Cmdr.

The Certificate of Live Birth is legally sufficient to prove birth in Hawaii, if so declared, for any United States Government purpose, including proving citizenship for passports.

The President is under no obligation to satisfy idle curiosity, because the supplied certificate is legally sufficient.  The “short form” certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: “your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records” (see http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/79955.pdf). 

Thousands of Hawaii residents use the same “short form” certificate to obtain passports.  This short form certificate is legally sufficient to prove birth in Hawaii.  Parentage is irrelevant for citizenship purposes, because the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution grants citizenship to all people born in the United States (except diplomatic personnel).  As it proves Hawaii birth for United States Government purposes, demands for the “long form” are frivolous.  The State of Hawaii uses the long form to determine parentage not for citizenship purposes, but to determine eligibility for programs available to Native Hawaiians.

Da*n Mark,
Are you a seminar Democrat, just cutting and pasting stuff at 3 a.m.or just a lonely, bitter guy living in his mom’s basement and ticked off because she won’t let you down-load any more porn?

The problem Mark is, if Obama was born in Kenya, or has Dual Citizenship, which at the time of his birth, Kenya was a British Colony. Barack Obama Sr. was still a citizen of Kenya when Jr. was borne.

A deposition taken by Orly Taitz, Attorney at Law, from his Aunt in Kenya clearly remembers Barack Jr. being born there. Since then she and Jerome Corsi have been banned by the Kenyan Government, and his Aunt can no longer be located.

Either of those would disqualify him from taking the Office of the President of these United States.

A certificate of Live Birth will get you into either House, a Governor, and so on…

The U.S. Constitution states, in Article II, Section 1: “No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President.”

“If one Parent holds Dual Citizenship shall exclude eligibility to for the Office of President of the United States of America.

Should both parents be naturalized citizens give birth to a child in any country with the exception of U.S. Military Bases, Embassies, or other United States sovereign soil shall disqualify the child from holding the Office of President of the U.S.”

Wes,
Don’t confuse the issue with facts. It’s not very convenient. Besides its all about feelings, hope and change.

WS,

I was under the impression that obama ran on Change, not Chains.

Wes,
I wonder where all the people are who thought Barry would govern from the “center” are.

“Chain of Fools”

WS,

Good one! Had he ran on what he really believes, the Usurper in Chief would have never been elected.

Wes
Well, the nation was truly bamboozled. We can’t do much now, but remain diligent and remember all of this nonsense in 2010. Also, message to all Republicans/conservatives: STOP BEING NICE!!! Tell it like it is, throw insults right back at them. Attack. Don’t let the libs define the issues and don’t apologize for being conservative>

Let’s hope what plays well in Obama’s hometown of Chicago and homeland of Kenya fails and leaves him and the Democrats high and dry in 2010 and 2012.

Question: Do they have a left wing media in Kenya?
If not, how do they get their gnus?
How do we fight the overwhelming media presence in this country? Maybe with shovels, like in Kenya.

WESLEY WROTE:

The U.S. Constitution states, in Article II, Section 1: “No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President.”

“If one Parent holds Dual Citizenship shall exclude eligibility to for the Office of President of the United States of America.

Should both parents be naturalized citizens give birth to a child in any country with the exception of U.S. Military Bases, Embassies, or other United States sovereign soil shall disqualify the child from holding the Office of President of the U.S.”

RESPONSE:  I found the first paragraph in the Constitution, but not the others.  Besides, ALL children born on American soil to non-diplomatic aliens are American citizens, regardless of parentage, according to the 14th Amendment.

Re: Posts 15 and 17;

A voice of reason!

PLUS – as I understand it, there’s a specific court procedure to be followed to question the eligibility of a person to be President.  Apparently, no one, including GOP bigwigs, is actually following it – which in and of itself is telling!  Additionally, nowhere is the phrase “natural born citizen” legally defined, either in the Constitution or the statutes – so, until that “legal defining” happens, the issue is moot.

HOWEVER, I believe the topic here is “Popularity Waning: Obama Gets Testy”, isn’t it ???

Even after just six months, if I was confronted with the problems Obama has been left to deal with by the prior administration – plus putting up with the ranting, raving and obstructionist opposition (which accomplished no better during their last eight years) – and if I had no immediate signs of success at some level – I sure as hell would get testy, too!

Besides – Obama’s decline in popularity tracks with most other presidents over their first six months in office – ESPECIALLY if they had serious problems, like Obama, to deal with.

In any case, the popularity of presidents confronted with recessions early in their terms is generally judged by the masses on how successfully the recession was managed and, ultimately, how quickly it was reversed.  “Popularity”, in this case, is all about “Recession Recovery”.

This week, it was announced that seven of the ten economic indicators closely watched by Wall Street prognosticators and economists showed upticks at the end of June – for the first time since some point in late 2007.  This could indicate something good is happening on the economic horizon and, if so, Obama’s popularity will undoubtedly increase and his testiness will undoubtedly decrease.

In the real world, I don’t know how ANYONE could criticize someone holding the most pressure-packed and currently most difficult and problem-ridden job in the world for being “testy”.

The Constitution is not specific on citizenship for aliens; it is still a subject of debate.  In defense of those who sincerely question Obama’s citizenship, it is the most natural thing in the world for people to be suspicious when there at least “seems” to be a cover-up.  However, Obama is now our President, and any effort to remove him would result in rioting by Blacks which would make the worst race riots—Watts, Rodney King and all others combined—seem like picnics. Let it go.  You can at least vote on it when he runs for his second term. I’ve always thought the various personal assaults on sitting Presidents counter-productive, even someowhat insane, as they often play into the hands of America’s enemies.  We need, for the country’s sake, to let whoever is President concentrate on the nation’s problems, full time, without unnecessary distractions. Some scholars say that Congress can settle the matter of citizenship, especially concerning the children of illegal aliens (not specifically the subject of this argument) by passing a law one way or the other.

I was a democrat all my life.  Until obama came on the scene.  Anyone who still calls themself a democrat or supports obama is a clear and present danger to the survival of America.  Clearly, tk and mark davis are communists.  Im 100% serious.  I thought george bush was bad but i wish he was president.  The media are a discgrace.

“Clearly, tk and mark davis are communists.”

Really!  You believe that “clearly” I’m a communist because I question criticism?  I didn’t even support any of his policies.  Do you think that everyone who questions criticism AND everyone who supports his policies is a “communist,” or just some of them?

You might as well shoot yourself because most voters supported him.  Are we all “communist”??

Post 27:

Mark:

The Constitution contains the term “natural born” for a US president. This term was used to prevent anyone with the possibility of having a foreign allegiance from becoming commander-in-chief of US forces, for obvious reasons. A person with dual citizenship owes allegiance to both the US and the foreign government. They are required to obey the laws of both countries, which of course, it was ruled for a sitting US President would be disastrous to the US nation.

The term “natural born” is used to mean a singular allegiance to one and only one nation. Dual citizenship contradicts this.

(Note that it is unique that the US president is also the commander-in-chief, which entrusts the office of president with great power, so a concern of allegiance was on the minds of the framers of the Constitution. Senators and Representatives can be naturalized; the President cannot, because of the Commander-In-Chief power.)

All NATURALIZED citizens have to take an oath of ALLEGIANCE, to confirm they only have allegiance to the US and no other country. But this is not enough to fully repudiate possible allegiances to other countries.

This was the interpretation of the Constitution by the Supreme Court in the late 1790’s.

This simpleminded manchild’s meltdown into a pool of precious neocomm bodily fluids will be ugly.
He is a mean man, he associates with mean men, and that fact will be revealed sooner rather than later.

Has any major network or cable yet reported on Michelle’s two dozen taxpayer-funded lackeys, flunkies, and flackcatchers? Criticism of Her Royal Highness should warm BO up a tinge.

OB is a VERY dangerous man along with his cronies, Nancy Pelosi, et al. I frankly think they have a conscious agenda to destroy the country. Let’s hope the American people wake up and stand up, or America will be a thing of the past.

As Jewel K says, the agenda is clear to anyone with a rational thought process and some knowledge of history. That appears to exclude Hannity, OReilly, and many others who profess to know better.
Rush, to my knowledge, is the only one who has mentioned “communist” and “Obama” in the same sentence with the clear meaning that what BO is doing is similar, if not following an outline, to what a card carrying communist would do if elected president of the United States.
Given a majority of useful idiots in congress, and an uncritical press who are so stupid and ignorant that they don’t know what their fate will be once their usefulness expires, the only opposition he faces is some republicans who are not lackeys like McKeever and the Colonel (O’Hatch and L’Grahamnesty), awake organizations like AIM and Heritage, and the common folk.

Never mind, G Washington faced far more formidible odds. Yes we can, change the change.

Re: Post 29;

As a moderate Independent, I applaud your reasoning and reasonability – and your common sense and sensibility!

And as I’ve already said, as far as I know, the definition of “natural born citizen” has never been statutorily codified nor legally defined by any court.  However, there is a formal judicial process established to challenge a person’s “eligibility to be President” – and, again, no one, including those doing all the ranting and raving about the issue, has engaged that process.

Extreme and out-on-the-fringe ideological partisanship itself is a far greater threat to the future well-being of this country than are many of the so-called “issues” that the over-the-top extremists often rant and rave about.

Wes:  Do you have any evidence that BO actually holds dual citizenship, or is it speculation?  All offspring of foreigners born in the U.S. are American citizens unless parents are diplomats.

Re: Post 32;

Unfortunately for your fictional account of the definition of “natural born citizen”, NO court has EVER offered a legally-binding definition, nor has any federal statute EVER codified a definition.

Note that 50 Secretaries of State (or a comparably-titled state authority) CERTIFIED Obama’s eligibility to actually appear on the presidential election ballots of each of their respective states.  Note that approximately HALF of those authorities doing the certifying were Republicans.

Respnding to post #31 mark davis.  no sir you are pathetic.  Because more Americans were hoodwinked by the liar and thief obama makes me the one who should shoot myself.  Anyone who knows anything about communism can see it in obama, with the help of acorn, illegal immigrants and the corrupt media yes obama won.  You shouldn’t feel so threatened by being called a communist, china is a communist country, communism is lots of places in the world.  This is the first time it’s occured in America thats all I’m saying.

TK and Mark

Putting aside all talk concerning ‘Natural Born Citizen’, ‘dual citizen’, eligibility, etc.; don’t either of you find it even slightly suspicious that Obama has legally resisted the release of his long-form birth certificate, college records and passport documents to the public?

If my fantasy candidate, Ron Paul or some other Constitutionalist candidate did the same, I’d certainly be scratching my head in befuddlement.

Good question, Neo-conned.  I guess the answer would depend upon standard practice for Presidential candidates.  Have other candidates released their private documents?

If they did, but he doesn’t, then he evidently has some reason for withholding them from public scrutiny.  Perhaps it’s just privacy concerns, or perhaps it’s one of the more imaginative reasons floating throughout the blogosphere.

Post 41:

Mark,

John McCain’s eligibility was questioned, and investigated by democrats in Congress and the DNC, he was born on a U.S. Naval Base in Panama, and was forced to show proper documents…of a Military hero.

Why was the same not done with obama? Oh right, Republicans tried and were denied by multiple lawsuits.

The term “Present” when voting in State Government or the US House and Senate should be eliminated, it actually a NO vote which is not recorded as a No.

Post 37:

Your comment is not correct, Barack Sr. never applied for US citizenship, although living in Kenya (a British Colony at the time) had a British passport. He could not remain in Hawaii due to his Visa. There is evidence Barack (Barry) was born in Kenya, making him a Dual Citizen with his birth documents remaining in Kenya. After Jerome Corsi visited Kenya to investigate the birth. He found the sister of Barack Sr. told more than just Corsi, she remembered the birth being there in Kenya, Dunham was advised not to travel as her birth of obama jr. was too close.

This article really has nothing to do with his birth, but do know that he has traveled to Kenya and Pakistan, I just wonder under which countries passport.

http://pc540.blogspot.com/2008/06/malik-obama-confirms-his-half-brother.html

Pic of a younger Barack in Muslim Dress.

Re: Post 40;

I was born in a state that I’ve lived far from for several decades.  Recently, I had an occasion which required a formally-certified birth certificate.

First, it was difficult to arrange for one “long-distance”, i.e., not being unable to go to the proper state government office in person and verify one’s identity; second, the state government, department of health, division of vital statistics – WOULD ONLY SUPPLY and certify what I’ve only recently heard people refer to as a “SHORT FORM” birth certificate.  (And it would ONLY be supplied directly to subject or a court-appointed third-party.)

The state assured me that such a formally-certified (with a state seal impression and an original signature of the certifying officer) birth certificate would be LEGALLY SUFFICIENT for EVERY purpose for which I might EVER need a birth certificate.

Consequently, my state of birth apparently has the same type of birth certificate regulations as does Hawaii – and a so-called “long-form”, while possibly archived somewhere in original form or on microfiche or some such – IS NOT AVAILABLE!

NOT AVAILABLE.  Period.

I have since come across two others from different birth states than mine who have said their respective states operate similarly as regards supplying birth certificates.

Re: Post 42:

Your comment:

“… Your comment is not correct, Barack Sr. never applied for US citizenship, although living in Kenya (a British Colony at the time) had a British passport. He could not remain in Hawaii due to his Visa. There is evidence Barack (Barry) was born in Kenya, making him a Dual Citizen with his birth documents remaining in Kenya. After Jerome Corsi visited Kenya to investigate the birth. He found the sister of Barack Sr. told more than just Corsi, she remembered the birth being there in Kenya, Dunham was advised not to travel as her birth of obama jr. was too close …”

The fact that you make such a declaratory statement, inferring that it al is some kind of a “proven and corroborated FACT”, is HOGWASH!

It appears that you are parroting unproven, unverified, uncorroborated extremist blarney – and your posting of a picture of Obama, ostensibly “in Muslim dress”, has no purpose here other than to incite anti-Muslim extremists and their anti-Obama racism.

And you complain on-and-on about the biased and prejudiced mainstream media!

Your whole post, as usual, is just another in your endless supply of “do as I say, not as I do” partisan propaganda.

Re: Post 37;

Wesley In Dallas rarely, if ever, will have “proof” and objective corroboration of ANYTHING he posts here.  Everything he peddles is either “speculation” – or the parroting of some clearly partisan propaganda he’s picked up somewhere in his daily “surfing” of websites that he sees as supportive of his predisposed partisan perspectives.

Please provide empirical evidence, rather than speculation, that Obama was born in Kenya.  The newpaper announcements and Hawaii short form BC are empirical evidence of birth in Hawaii.

All candidates provided legally sufficient evidence of eligibility (i.e., “proper documents”).  The question asked if other candidates have provided college records and passport documents, as requested from Obama.

TK (re:post #43) – <<<“Consequently, my state of birth apparently has the same type of birth certificate regulations as does Hawaii – and a so-called “long-form”, while possibly archived somewhere in original form or on microfiche or some such – IS NOT AVAILABLE!

NOT AVAILABLE.  Period.”>>>

WOW!!

I wouldn’t have thought that a simple question such as what I asked in my post #40 would arouse such a defensive, angry response.

Trust me, TK, I wasn’t questioning your citizenship status.

You still haven’t indicated whether or not you find it the least bit SUSPICIOUS that Obama has legally resisted the release of his long-form birth certificate, college records and passport documents to the public.

As far as any ‘difficulty’ in retrieving such documents, as you pointed out in your post, I would think that a US Senator, unlike a common citizen, would have little problem in doing this.

Re: Post 47;

Angry???  Defensive???

Are you ultra-sensitive or something?

My “birth certificate experience” (and that of the two others I mentioned) came up way before this Obama birth certificate issue was generated.  At the time, I had never heard the terms “short-form” and or “long-form” birth certificate – my birth state told me ONLY a “short-form” was available – at which time I asked what the difference was – they told me (the only “real” difference I could discern was that the “short-form” would not include the delivering doctor’s actual signature or related details, like address, license number, etc.) – I said “Okay!” – they sent me the thing – I used it for the purpose it was intended (I was told the “short-form” was approved NATIONALLY for ALL legal purposes) – and that was that.

Consequently, because I had direct experience with the fact that there is NO AVAILABILITY of any birth certificate known as a “long-form birth certificate” in my state – I did not, do not, will not find it suspicious, unusual, illegal that Hawaii apparently has the same or very similar regulations and – there is also NO AVAILABILITY of any birth certificate known as a “long-form birth certificate” in that state, too!

And, since there is NO long-form birth certificate available in my state – I obviously could not “release” one, even if I wanted to.  So, in the real world, one cannot “release” or produce what does not exist – or legally accomplish what state statutes prohibit – even if political bigwigs ask “pretty please”.  (All applicable state authorities in Hawaii, including the GOP governor who actively supported McCain, have verified that Obama’s short-form birth certificate is NOT a counterfeit, that he was born in Hawaii, and that their “certificate of live birth” meets all legal requirements of a “birth certificate”.)

Further, while it was once common for, say, an employer to request and receive the college transcript of a job applicant – that is no longer the case because of drastically-increased privacy statutes of late.  Some colleges/universities refuse to release transcripts under ALL circumstances today: they’ll verify attendance dates, graduation, degree granted and whether there were any other honors attached – and that’s about it.  Again, I had some difficulty in getting my own transcripts about 15 years ago.  However, if I was Obama – and if I found that pathological partisans were climbing all over me for every imaginable reason – I WOULD NOT make copies of my undergraduate/graduate/law school transcripts available to them.  My position would be that copies of my diplomas should be sufficient.

And, as far as I know, personal details submitted as part of a passport application are as private in the eyes of the government as are social security numbers – so – I don’t find anything unusual there, either.

And – here’s some guesswork on my part:

I believe “The Gingrich Revolution” in 1994 began a period of rabid and increasing political partisanship that, on a wide scale, surpasses ANYTHING that may have come before it.  Following, the GOPs were merciless in relentlessly attacking the Clintons and orchestrating Clinton’s impeachment; plenty of DEMs then came to believe the GOPs followed that up by stealing the election of 2000 (as orchestrated, this time, by the candidate’s brother and his allies); and plenty of DEMs view the “Swiftboaters” as the lowest form of phoney smear merchants.  Plus – the normally-expected-to-be-available documentation and records of Bush 43’s “reserve military service” ended up – “missing”.

So – - I would guess, now that the DEMs are back in power, that they may well be purposely and willfully waving the Big Middle Finger at the GOPs on every occasion where they find it applicable and possible to do so.  For GOPs, payback’s a bitch!

From the day L-O-N-G ago – when I first found that the mechanical voting machines in my jurisdiction had “party levers” – I have DETESTED blind ideologically-based, political partisanship.  I view it as a well-defined threat to the future well-being of the U.S. – and you can see right on this forum some of the rock-headed division and hatred that mindless, run amok partisanship generates.

“As far as any ‘difficulty’ in retrieving such documents, as you pointed out in your post, I would think that a US Senator, unlike a common citizen, would have little problem in doing this.”

But why should he want to, when the short form is sufficient for all official United States Government business?  The long form may satisfy idle curiosity, but it has little probative value. Neither Obama, nor anyone else, is under any obligation to satisfy idle curiosity.

Did G.W. Bush release his college records?

TK – RE: #48

TK denies the existence of his angry posts and throws it back in the face of someone who points it out to him as being ultra-sensitive.

He justifies the obvious legal blockade by Obama concerning his personal records by pointing out perceived past witch-hunting by the GOP concerning Clinton scandals while leaving out the partisan witch-hunts by Democrats in regards to the comparatively benign Watergate scandal, baseless censorship of Joe McCarthy by a Democrat majority in Congress, Iran-Contra, Trent Lott remark concerning Strom Thurmond, etc.

TK also tries to justify Obama’s legal evasiveness by bringing up his own personal experiences as if he has any credibility at all, considering his consistently fierce, partisan defense against anything said negatively about Obama or any other Democrat politician.

Despite the masquerade TK tries to pull with his self-proclaimed ‘Independent’ status, this individual, in my opinion, is as hard-core a left-wing ideologue as they come.

Good Luck, Wesley, in continuing your attempted civil discussions with this nasty, uncivil individual who endlessly PROJECTS his negative aspects onto you and others who disagree with him. You and I may not be on the same political plane Wes, but I do respect the mature conduct you consistently display in this forum with those you have disagreements with, especially considering the battering the GOP took this past election.

As far as TK; his guy is in the White House, the Dems have a majority in the House and Senate, and yet he’s still miserable, hostile, and ultra-defensive.

By the way Wesley – you were proven correct again about the way TK changes the topic of threads. Just look at his #6 post in the “40 Years Later Chappaquiddick Just Distant Memory” thread where, as usual, he plays down any justified criticism of a Democrat (Ted Kennedy) by bringing up a Republican counterpart scenario (Nixon) which has nothing to do with the topic. Always equivocating.
Partisanship to the extreme!!

But don’t worry – TK will, countless times in the future, remind us all here that he’s been a registered Independent for 40 something years and a registered Republican for 4 years, and that he didn’t vote for Obama.

YEAH, RIGHT!!!

Mark – RE: #49 – “But why should he want to, when the short form is sufficient for all official United States Government business?  The long form may satisfy idle curiosity, but it has little probative value.”

As far as the COLB that was posted on the Web, I’ve heard it argued that it may have been digitally altered using programs such as Photoshop.

An article which addresses this is at http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter156.htm

A good article about the COLB and evasiveness of the Hawaii Health Department is here – http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter154.htm

Columnist Lynn Stuter (newswithviews.com) also mentions other documents kept from the public such as –
education records
health records
selective service records
passport records
adoption records
social security records including disclosure of all social security numbers he has used.

Your statement – “Did G.W. Bush release his college records?”

The only presidential candidate that I know of to legally block release of personal records was Bill Clinton in regards to his medical records. As far as Bush or other recent presidents legally hiding personal documents…I haven’t read anything. If you can come up with anything on this Mark, I’m all ears. After all, it would help confirm my belief that both parties are corrupt. I want all of the guilty to be ferreted out regardless of their party affiliation.

I am not singling out Obama, as I strongly feel that McCain is also not constitutionally eligible for the POTUS. That so-called agreement that the Senate reached last year in declaring McCain a natural born citizen was a nonbinding resolution; simply an opinion to sweep an unpleasant issue under the rug in my opinion. My feeling of McCain not being qualified came from reading articles such as from http://www.dailypaul.com/node/37509 and http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd340.htm  (In reading the latter of the two, go to the [Primary/Caucus numbers] section of the article.)

To me, both candidates (and all presidential candidates) should have been put through the legal grinding machine to determine their eligibility. The cowardly and/or corrupt courts,  politicians of both parties, electoral system, and the media had shirked their responsibility in vetting these candidates. To me, they are the reason we are in this mess!!

On top of that, Socialist Workers Party candidate for POTUS, Roger Colero, (Nicaraguan-born) was even allowed to run in 5 states during last year’s general election.

You said – “Neither Obama, nor anyone else, is under any obligation to satisfy idle curiosity.”

I vehemently disagree with that considering they are supposed to be public servants (or potential public servants) and should answer to us. We have a right to know their political backgrounds, past political affiliations, hidden physical ailments, etc. so that we can then cast a more informed vote. Candidates shouldn’t be shrouded in mystery.

This is getting so far out there, I am truly astounded.

Post 43:

tk, Go to any State’s Site, search for Birth Certificate,  Certificate of Live Birth, or it can be search on Federal , Bureau of Statistics, and search for Certificate Live Birth. There are only two States show up, Hawaii and Florida. All other States have a long form Birth Certificate. A short form is legal ONLY if it has a State Seal, Signed by the Delivering Doctor, and Notarized.

Last year, my wallet was stolen at a car wash and detail shop, I called the police since they broke the lock on my on my glove box. They searched for the man who detailed the inside, but he was nowhere to be found. As it turned out, he was an illegal who got the job with a fake Social Security card, did not live, and his address was an empty lot. I have credit protection on my credit cards (both my wife and myself both pay off each months balance to avoid interest rates), cancelled al l my cards. I needed a new driver’s license, but my Social Security card had been in my wallet, to receive a new SS Card you need an original Birth Certificate or a Certified Copy of the original.

I was born while my father was in the Air Force based at Sheppard AFB in San Antonio, Tx. I search for Bexar (pronounced Bear) County. So I searched for Birth Certificate, Bexar County. I phoned them and they wanted $50.00 plus shipping. While looking at the search page, I noticed I could also receive my B.C. in many cities…all Certified, since they are all listed on a Database, you can get certified B.C. with seal and Doctor (needless to say, it is a copy of the original just as I would have received from Bexar County.

I ordered it from Cleveland, Ohio for $22.50 including shipping. I had photo copied my original, they are identical and in long form.
——————————
Post #44

tk said: The fact that you make such a declaratory statement, inferring that it al is some kind of a “proven and corroborated FACT”, is HOGWASH!

Read his book “Dreams of my Father”, obama’s father did not want to stay in Hawaii, when immigration caught up with him a year or so later, and was told he had to return to Kenya. Ann Dunham was already pregnant with Barack Jr. and went with him.

In the same post you call me a Racist. Since when is it racist to post a picture his half brother who posted the picture all over the internet, it is a fact. There is NOTHING racist in linking to the picture, except you being racist for saying what you did. That very same picture was in his book, so how am I inciting anti-Muslim extremists? It was HIS own idea to use his middle name in his inauguration. So where is the so-called partisan propaganda?
—————————-
Post # 45:

tk said once again is without a doubt wrong again, with the comment:

“Wesley In Dallas rarely, if ever, will have “proof” and objective corroboration of ANYTHING he posts here.  Everything he peddles is either “speculation” – or the parroting of some clearly partisan propaganda he’s picked up somewhere in his daily “surfing” of websites that he sees as supportive of his predisposed partisan perspectives.”
I read the internet, but I also read books (you should try reading), magazines, online newspapers, with three Dual Turner Satellite receivers, I can record up to 6 stations at a time, so I do record ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN, however I cannot quote from them since they do not talk about obama, except to mention he is some sort of Messiah, they have never challenged him or what he does, they do not even report on Biden’s gaff of the day. But the late night shows do, as do other non-obama news. I also use the World Almanac (I have everyone since 1972 to 2009, and a new one every year), History Books; I watch the History and Document Channels, as well as some Biography shows.

Perhaps they call us the RIGHT for a reason. LOL
———————————-
Post #46

Mark said:
“Please provide empirical evidence, rather than speculation, that Obama was born in Kenya.  The newpaper announcements and Hawaii short form BC are empirical evidence of birth in Hawaii.
All candidates provided legally sufficient evidence of eligibility (i.e., “proper documents”).  The question asked if other candidates have provided college records and passport documents, as requested from Obama.”
You can start with Jerome Corsi’s Book “The Obama Nation” where he has notes and quotes from the Kenyan Government (all verified by document from the Kenyan Government), and Barack Sr.’s Sister, who witnessed the book. When Corsi returned to Kenya, he was denied access after being held in jail for more than a week, and told to never return, and to never contact Barack’s sister again, even by mail.

As for any local, State, Congress, or the Senate, only need to be US Citizens, naturalized or not, a.k.a. Arnold Schwarzenegger, he was not born in the US, but he is allowed to run for State Government or either House in the US Government, but he can NEVER be a President or Vice President.
—————————-
Post #48:

tk, as I have repeatedly said, a short form Birth Certificate can be used for a passport, SS, and other documents.  Even a Valid US passport is good enough, as is a Social Security card but without having a Doctors name and a State Seal, you would never be allowed to run for POTUS. 

Obama was never vetted, and we are still trying to find out why. As for Swift-Boat, it was formed without being affiliated with any Party (although it was obvious they were Republicans, but not sanctioned by the Party), they even paid for their own commercials, and were true. They were his comrades in Vietnam and knew Kerry was a screw-up who almost got them all killed.

Your claim that copied Graduate Documents would not even be eligible to get a job, you have to list your University and a Contact Phone number, I should know, it was our practice to vet claims of college graduates. Even if they have rolled up their Diploma and brought it to the job interview. You can buy a Diploma for almost anywhere, especially online.

“The GOPs were merciless in relentlessly attacking the Clintons and orchestrating Clinton’s impeachment.” Clinton was impeached for lying to Federal Prosecutors and the Judge, thus he committed and was charged with Perjury, which is a very serious crime, but since he was a setting President, it was left up to impeachment. It went straight down party lines to clear him.

Democrats held power over both Houses for over 40 years in a row, then they lost due to being too partisan.  Now that they are in the Majority again, they are even worse than before, not allowing Republican bills to come to the floor, having secret meetings leaving Republicans left out of the Process, not even the Republicans did that to the dems when they were in charge.
——————————
Post # 49:

Mark said: “Did G.W. Bush release his college records?”

When he was asked, he did present them to Congress, he and Gore went to Harvard at the same time, Bush 43 Graduated from Yale, and Harvard, where he had higher GPA than Gore.

From The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, according to its website, now reprints birth information it receives from Hawaii’s Department of Health.

“We don’t have an editor who handles birth and marriage announcements; we print what we receive from the Department of Health Vital Statistics System,” a Star-Bulletin newsroom operator explained. The Hospital retains those records, however we could not locate the records from the Hospital where he claimed he was born.”

The newspaper’s “proof” of birth, therefore, could be based on a state-issued “Certification of Live Birth” which, has reported is insufficient alone, even for some State Department officials, to document the birthplace.

Many people remain unaware a child does not even have to be born in Hawaii to receive a Certification of Live Birth, the very “evidence” the White House has cited in defending its assertion Obama was born in Hawaii.

Re: Post 52

Your statement:

“… tk, Go to any State’s Site, search for Birth Certificate,  Certificate of Live Birth, or it can be search on Federal , Bureau of Statistics, and search for Certificate Live Birth. There are only two States show up, Hawaii and Florida. All other States have a long form Birth Certificate. A short form is legal ONLY if it has a State Seal, Signed by the Delivering Doctor, and Notarized … “

My birth state is neither Hawaii nor Florida – and the ONLY birth certificate I was able to get was the so-called “short form” (there was NO choice for a “Certificate of Live Birth).  The other two people I mentioned who were also only able to get a “short form” from their two state states (not including Hawaii, Florida or my state).  So, while you may have seen a statement that ONLY Hawaii and Florida provide only “short form” certificates – that information is obviously not totally accurate.

Furthermore – I was told that, in my case, the ONLY difference between a “short form” and “long form” was that the “long form” was the actual original birth certificate archived on microfiche in state records – and that the “short from” was actually a contemporary “CERTIFICATION” (in lieu of an actual copy of what appears on the archived microfiched record) of the information appearing on the so-called “long form”.  I was told (and my certificate bears this out) that the ONLY DIFFERENCES would be that the delivering doctor’s name would appear as “typed in” rather than being his actual signature – and that the actual street address of his office at the time of my birth (only the city name would be shown) and his medical license number would NOT be included.

When I received my “short form”, it had everything on it that I knew to be the case – hospital (and its address) of birth; parents’ names and address; time and date of delivery; delivering doctor’s name and city of his office.  Additionally, the certificate included the impressed seal of the department of health of the state in question – and it was signed, certified and dated by the then “assistant director of the department of health”.

The title of the document was “Birth Certificate” and an information sheet attached to it stipulated that it would be recognized nationwide as a “legal” birth certificate for any and all statutory purposes wherein a “legal” and “certified” birth certificate might be required.  I have found that to be the case.

From what I was told, the “original” birth certificate, now on microfiche, was “not available”. (And no one I spoke to was certain the “original” even existed anymore – or where it might be if it did exist – and that, as far as the state was concerned, the microfiche was “the official record”.)  Obviously, the “short form” was contemporaneously prepared from information found on the microfiched original.

In ANY event, the blanket statement you made about all 50 states is certainly not accurate as regards my state and two others that I have first-hand knowledge of.  And, while my state’s regulations do seem to mirror Hawaii’s, MY state – and the two other states I mentioned – DO NOT HAVE what Hawaii (and you) call a “Certificate of Live Birth”; in MY case, the three states I’m speaking of provide what THEY CALL a “short from” birth certificate in the exact manner I have described – a contemporaneously completed form on which they duplicate the information on the “original” – EXCEPT an actual doctor’s signature, office street address, and medical license number.

Furthermore – in my case, there is a STATUTORY PROHIBITION of anyone but health department, bureau of vital statistics personnel of personally reviewing the microfiche or other original records or obtaining a print or copy from the microfiche or other original records.  Statutorily, the certificate contemporaneously-prepared by department personnel IS THE “OFFICIAL RECORD” and is “Certified” as such by them.

AND, NOTE:  MY “short form” birth certificate is LEGAL for ALL purposes – and it is NOT SIGNED by the delivering doctor – nor is it, as you stated, NOTARIZED.  (As I’ve said – it is stamped with an official seal – and signed by the current assistant director of the department of health.)

This is one of those occasions where such “certification” is WHOLLY within the respective state’s jurisdiction.  if the state says “it’s official” – then, it’s official.  (The federal government has nothing to do with it.)
_______________________

FURTHER – there was no relevant point, in my opinion, for putting Obama’s picture “in (alleged) Muslim dress” in your post.  In my opinion, you did it to expressly play on one element in the anti-Obamism or the right-wing nutcases.

FURTHER – many things written in many books are false – and even if true or partly true, are often open to many interpretations.  Therefore, assumptions and suppositions coming from such sources are not necessarily “fact” – nor are they necessarily “corroboration” of opinions or interpretations.  Your declaration was nothing more than YOUR interpretation, opinion, or perspective on the issues mentioned.

FURTHER – you need to recognize that my statement “… The GOPs were merciless in relentlessly attacking the Clintons and orchestrating Clinton’s impeachment …” is a truism to Democrats!  Period.  (And as are the other items I mentioned.)

As a right-winger, you can argue about the validity of those statements all you want – but PARTISAN DEMOCRATS BELIEVE THEM – probably more ardently that you deny them!  Nevertheless – the three or four situations I mentioned are clearly motivators for partisan DEMs to want to engage in “payback”.  Accept it.  That’s the result of partisanship run amok – of which BOTH PARTIES ARE EQUALLY GUILTY!  If you don’t like it yourself – then you could always stop being a run amok ideological partisan – and, then, pass it on!  Unchecked partisanship is a serious threat to the effective governance of this country.

FURTHER – I have done W-A-Y more than my share of job applicant background checking.  As I said, legitimate colleges and universities will VERIFY attendance, receipt of diploma, etc.  Many WILL NOT provide transcripts.  I DID NOT SAY one should accept “seeing a diploma” as signifying reality -  any more than the reading some of your posts signifies contact with reality.  I spoke of “verifying” – but that the verification is not always going to include the ability to view actual transcripts or to receive a copy thereof.

FURTHER – if you think Obama was insufficiently “vetted” – that would be your own party’s fault!  If the opposition doesn’t pose an objection – then one would have to assume there were no grounds for an objection, wouldn’t one?  (Where were “the Swiftboaters” this time out???)

And this is my personal opinion – you can sputter about it all you want – but you’re not going to change it:  Newt Gingrich and his close associates didn’t know how to be “winners” in 1994.

After the GOPs finally got control of Congress after 40 years – they acted like childish, motor-mouthed, middle-school s**theads in the relentless and dumba** ways they incessantly attacked Clinton – and, whether you consider that a right, a wrong, or an indifference – that set the stage for formerly relatively benign partisan Democrats to start building a head of partisan steam – and the 2000 election and 2004 “Swiftboaters” added serious fuel to the building fire – and now – after the eight miserable years of the Bush 43 administration – there are partisan DEMs every bit as bad and nasty as was Gingrich and his henchmen 15 years ago – and Boehner and McConnel – and ESPECIALLY the most divisive person in America – Rush Limbaugh – continue to pump up that partisanship even more-and-more!  One would think the ideological extremist nutcases in both parties are apparently aiming for another Civil War!

The way things are now – if a GOP wants something – the DEMs simply raise their middle fingers; if a DEM wants something – the GOPs say “No!” – and the only discourse between the two is criticism, criticism and more criticism – of EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY.

Unless that changes – not only among the politicians, but also at the grass roots, this country may well be slowly asphyxiated by terminal, nutcase partisanship.

If you ask me, the “birthers” should be taking their bitches to the Republican National Committee and other ranking GOPs to push them into making a LEGAL issue of it by initiating and following the judicial procedures already in existence to specifically adjudicate eligibility for the presidency.  Certainly it’s just plain stupidity for these “birthers” to think the DEMs will respond to them – when even the GOP bigwigs won’t!

As I said some time ago – it probably won’t be long before partisans start complaining about the color of Obama’s socks or his haircut style.

Re: Post 50;

A nutty post, Conman!  I once thought you had a little more on the ball than some of the extremist right-wing rockheads here – but, apparently, I was wrong!

In YOUR Post 40, YOU asked ME a question:

“… Putting aside all talk concerning ‘Natural Born Citizen’, ‘dual citizen’, eligibility, etc.; don’t either of you find it even slightly suspicious that Obama has legally resisted the release of his long-form birth certificate, college records and passport documents to the public? …”

AND IN MY POSTS 43 AND 48 – I POLITELY, RESPECTFULLY and HONESTLY ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION – in some great deal and with several relevant illustrations explaining why I was not, in fact, “suspicious” of Obama as regards his birth certificate, his college transcript and his passport application.

AND THEN – you go off on me like some extremist, mini-minded, bi-polar nutcase?

Toughs**t if you didn’t like the answer!

And s***w you and the jacka** ride on!

TK – (post #54) “If you ask me, the “birthers” should be taking their bitches to the Republican National Committee and other ranking GOPs to push them into making a LEGAL issue of it by initiating and following the judicial procedures already in existence to specifically adjudicate eligibility for the presidency.”

That gets right to the heart of the matter.

The only reason I can fathom why the GOP sat on this ‘smoking gun’ issue was due to the potential vulnerability of McCain’s eligibility. I can now see the added incentive for the MSM and the Democrats in propping up McCain during the primary season to help increase his chances of winning his party’s nomination.
The obvious incentive was the fact that McCain would be a weak candidate in of himself, considering his ‘maverick’ reputation. The ‘added incentive’ was to compromise any attempts by the GOP to question Obama’s eligibility since Obama and the Democrats could question McCain’s eligibility, which would necessitate a thorough legal investigation into both candidate’s eligibility status. The Senate resolution passed last year in proclaiming McCain as a natural born citizen was non-binding, with no legal effect; just an opinion reached by them, and which sustained the vulnerability of McCain’s candidacy should the GOP decide to use their ‘smoking gun’ on Obama as the election approached.

Hence, the blackout by Fox News and the Republican party in alliance with the MSM’s and Democrat party’s blackout.

I feel that the Republican party’s biggest blunder was in not legally questioning McCain’s eligibility years ago when he ran in 2000 and 2004. Their ‘sweeping it under the rug’ attitude eventually came back to bite them.

RE: #55 – “AND IN MY POSTS 43 AND 48 – I POLITELY, RESPECTFULLY”….”

If that’s supposed to be ‘polite’ and ‘respectful’, I’d hate to see what impoliteness and dis-respectfulness from you would be like.

“Toughs**t if you didn’t like the answer!”
“And s***w you and the jacka** ride on!”

Not for anything…but you are in serious need of some psychiatric help.

Re: Post 56;

My post 43 and 48 WERE “polite” and “respectful” in addition to being an extremely detailed response to answer your question and to explain the origin of my response to your question.

If you think otherwise – point to the “impolite” and “disrespectful” portions.

And – if you don’t get the “why” of the “Tough**t” and “S***w you” response – then you are obviously seriusly “insensitive” rather than “ultra sensitive”.

And – have YOU made YOUR Doctor of Psychiatry credentials public here, including transcript, any honors, and any important publications and/or contributions to the field?

If so, I believe I missed them.

Why is it that you can’t believe or understand that your Post 50 above was a completely off-the-wall and unwarranted attack – which seriously pissed off the attackee?

You had no legitimate reason to go off on that tirade of yours – and then you feign breathless surprise and affront when you get kicked back?

Disingenuous.

Beyond that, I tend to believe that something did go on with the GOPs akin to your interpretation above.

Post #‘s 54, 55:

Any respect I may have occasionally or secretly held for you, with those posts are now completely gone, vanished. I believe I have gotten so under your skin, it has finished pushing you over the edge. tk, no one likes a whiner, or the totality of your mis-truths, if you actually believe anything you have said, it has only served to further your delusions.

How very say for you.

First of all, I said a “Short Form” was could not get you into POTUS ***unless*** the document had your delivery Doctor, and a State Seal, which is NOW the ONLY time you have admitted that fact. Right!!!

A Certificate of Live Birth is not the same as a “Short Form”.

Definition of a Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth, 1961:

“In 1961 and 1962, should a Mother or Father born in the United States of America, or either parent is a citizen of another country, while the other parent is not a Naturally born Citizen [Dual Citizenship], were allowed to apply for a Certification of Live Birth in the State of Hawaii, even if the Child were born outside of the United States of America gave the Child the right to obtain obtain and receive admittance to US Schools, Social Security Card, entrance into the U.S. Military, Passport.

The Child becomes a citizen of the United States of America with some limitations. They have the same rights of an immigrant who has gained Citizenship under the United States of America’s Naturalization process. This process changed in 1963.”
Source: Bureau of Vital Records

Any child born in the Untied States of America, born to a Mother and Father who must also be born in the United States in order to become a whole citizen without restrictions.

There is confusion due to several States calling a Birth Certificate issued in the Untied States of America, are also called a Certificate of Live Birth. But, unlike the described situation as described above.
——————————

tk, said:

FURTHER – there was no relevant point, in my opinion, for putting Obama’s picture “in (alleged) Muslim dress” in your post.  In my opinion, you did it to expressly play on one element in the anti-Obamism or the right-wing nutcases.

>It is all over the Internet, it even appears on a Pro-Obama web site, and your are correct, it is YOUR opinion, you know what they say about opinions, don’t you? It has been proved it has not been photo-shopped or altered in any way, as obama himself has said the photo is real.

tk said: “FURTHER – many things written in many books are false – and even if true or partly true, are often open to many interpretations.  Therefore, assumptions and suppositions coming from such sources are not necessarily “fact” – nor are they necessarily “corroboration” of opinions or interpretations.  Your declaration was nothing more than YOUR interpretation, opinion, or perspective on the issues mentioned.”

>>So in your opinion, Law Books, Encyclopedias, Dictionaries, Government Books including statistical books are not reliable?

tk, said: “FURTHER – you need to recognize that my statement “… The GOPs were merciless in relentlessly attacking the Clintons and orchestrating Clinton’s impeachment …” is a truism to Democrats!  Period.  (And as are the other items I mentioned.)”

>>So, you do not acknowledge that Clinton did not lie and commit perjury, as confirmed by the Judge, if you read the Constitution and Amendments to the Constitution are incorrect? Lying to Congress and/or to a Judge is an impeachable offense?

The rest of Post 54 do not need a reply, as usual it is all BS. You would not know the truth if it hit you in the face!

Post 55 is just plain stupid, and you are repeating yourself, that is unbecoming in any debate, of which you are not good at in the first place.

Then you refer to disguised profanity, that is a, sure sign your arguments are based in fantasy, it means you have lost control and shown your true self.

Re: Post 58;

Wesley, you’re just totally off-the-wall again.

My Post 54 to you is a straight-up recounting of my direct experiences obtaining a “short form” birth certificate – plus a few opinions directly relating to three or four of your specific prior statements.  No names – no sarcasm – no over-the-top criticisms – straighforward and straight-up.

This is another of your goofy, irrelevant and nearly totally incoherent posts.  You’re just off the wall.  Apparently, one would have to be some kind of professional specialist to be able to deal with you.

And, Post 55 is not directed to you and is none of your business – so just save yourself some whackedoutedness and ignore it – for your own good!

I can’t explain what appear to be your significant reading, comprehension and retention problems.  You seem to have a severe problem in comprehending, understanding and interpreting what is actually written down here.  Maybe it’s medication or something.  (???)

You should also see if someone can help you with what seems to me to be some kind of problem with some kind of hatefulness or something.  You say some sick stuff.  And, man, you get so wound up over stuff you apparently don’t understand, that you don’t make any sense when you write something down about it. (???)

Of course, the answer to your problem might be in your very own words: “… fantasy, it means you have lost control and shown your true self …”

The say self-diagnosis is bad – but I think you’ve got something there!

TK (post #57) – <<<“My post 43 and 48 WERE “polite” and “respectful” in addition to being an extremely detailed response to answer your question and to explain the origin of my response to your question.
If you think otherwise – point to the “impolite” and “disrespectful” portions.”>>>

Here it is –

“IS NOT AVAILABLE!
NOT AVAILABLE.  Period.”>>>”

To me, that comes across as shouting; as in extreme agitation.

I couldn’t understand what it was in my question to you and Mark to illicit that kind of tone from you considering the bizarre nature of Obama’s actions in legally preventing his records from being seen. The cavalier attitude that you and Mark have had on this issue simply aroused my curiosity. I think you and I had engaged in enough dialogue on various issues in the past for you to know that I’m not into ‘rattling your cage’, or otherwise, getting on your nerves.

<<<“And – if you don’t get the “why” of the “Tough**t” and “S***w you” response – then you are obviously seriusly “insensitive” rather than “ultra sensitive”.>>>

You’re right, I don’t get it; but I’ll leave it at that.

<<<“And – have YOU made YOUR Doctor of Psychiatry credentials public here, including transcript, any honors, and any important publications and/or contributions to the field?”>>>

I don’t feel that you have to be a ‘Doctor of Psychiatry’ to advise a friend, a relative, or even a fellow forum poster to seek help if you really feel there are sustained emotional issues affecting their general behavior.
In this instance, though, perhaps the “psychiatric help” remark was excessive, as I was caught off guard, so I’ll take it back.

Now that I cooled down, I’ll change it to – “Hey, the weekend’s here TK, fire up the barbecue, toss down a few ‘cold ones’ or sip some wine, mellow out, and we’ll call it a truce.”

Re: Post 60;

I do believe that you put too much “meaning” into my writing style and, you’ll have to take it from me, your psychoanalyzations are off the mark. 

However – on the occasion I do use all caps – that IS indicative of a little “heat” regarding whatever comment I happen to be referring to – and the exclamation points are intended to “emphasize” – as you surmised. 

(I honestly don’t have a lot of time to write these posts – nor to proofread or edit them so that they might appear “more academic” or “less boisterous”.  And, as I’ve said, I’m generally the type of person who’s often “on offense” when I find something or someone doing or saying something “offensive”.) 

Anyway, I’ll go for the truce.

(And, while I enjoy a wide variety of relaxation activities, I don’t drink alcoholic beverages – and I did pass through the “barbecue” phrase quite a long time ago.)

TK (post 61) – “I do believe that you put too much “meaning” into my writing style and, you’ll have to take it from me, your psychoanalyzations are off the mark.”

Acknowledged.

I eventually surmised, after re-reading your posts, the sincerity in your denial of the ‘angry’ response. I should have known, especially being raised in a Queens, NY neighborhood, that passion can sometimes be mistaken for anger. That’s what I get for moving to the Jersey suburbs years ago.

Re: Post 62;

Hey, Neo, ya’ know, fugeddaboudit!  And I tink ders pots of Joisey dat are b-eee-uuu-tiful!

(In the way old days, I used to like the Pompton Lakes area and, of course, Wildwood Crest (had relatives in both places) – and I liked kicking around Atlantic City in B.C. – before casinos (W-A-Y before) – and, of course, in high school, in the summer, we especially liked to chase those Jersey girls all around Palisades Park!)

Neo-conned,

Trust me, I know about passion, and the difference between that and anger, this is the only time TK has admitted it to anyone.

All I want is both Parties re-vetted and investigated, then make it mandatory for all future candidates to be tourghly vetted by a third party Security Firm before they are allowed to run for office…I am sick of the corruption on both sides, or all three sides.

tourghly = thoroughly

FYI, in post 55, half of Neo-conned’s post was addressed me, therefore I had the right to comment. Rules for open Blogs, you can comment on anyone’s post, as you so often do yourself.

If you listened to the 9-1-1 Call, the lady who called in, said from where she was it appeared to be a Hispanic and race unknown on the other (due to it being dark), but she saw them suing their shoulders to force the door open. Even more interesting was the released dispatch call to the officers, and how when they asked the professor to show his ID to verify who he was, became racially outraged and refused to show them his drives license. They just replayed the whole thing again on the news.

Just one more thing, while on the way to the scene, 9-1-1 connect the called to the responding police officer who grilled the woman who call it into dispatch, there was a younger friend of the professor who ripped the screen door off the hinges.

The other media has said the woman had reported two black men, this call proved NBC and others made that up, and were completely wrong…again.

Re: Post 64;

Here’s what I “admit”: I can get angry at willful ignorance; I can get angry at liars and cheaters; I can get angry at flagrant incompetence; I can get angry at irrational and ideological extremism; I can get angry at selfishness, self-centeredness and self-aggrandizement; and I will often get angry at unwarranted expressions of disrespect toward anyone.  (There are others – but this about covers the “political” and “forum” realm.)

Post 66:

So, you finally looked in the mirror and read your own posts, congratulations are in order.

“If one calls you a liar, he is hiding from his own lies and inequities.”

Proverbs
—————-
“…unwarranted expressions of disrespect toward anyone.”

Does that excuse your disdain for Recovering Alcoholics? Remember how you persecuted that group of people?

Personally I do not indulge in drink, but I do admire those who beat the self inflicted disease, perhaps the only thing I admire about Ted Kennedy, he has been clean and sober and has beaten it so far. Even the DSM IV calls it, among other reasons, self medication, usually over a loss of a loved one, in many cases it is someone who is extremely depressed, and does not realize what is happening to them, while others use it for pain. Once it reaches a certain point, they cannot stop.

One of my employees began drinking when his child died, when he showed up for work half drunk, I knew of what had happened, rather than firing him, I sponsored him in a treatment center, which our insurance covered, I held his job for eight months, by the time I had my accident caused by a Drunk Driver, he was still clean and sober for over three years, it even got him back with his wife and other older child. They could not thank me enough, but I told them it was him they needed to thank, not me.

Re: Post 67;

I may have “disdain” for any number of people for any number of reasons. 

My point in the post was that I can get angry at the expression of UNWARRANTED DISRESPECT SHOWN towards anyone.  Key: “unwarranted”.

The opposite of “respect” is NOT “disrespect”; it IS LACK of respect.  I do not have much respect for addictive (or extremist) personalities.

As I’ve said before, I would not (and have not) knowingly hire an alcoholic or addict for the various businesses I have owned and/or own.

TK – #63 – “ya’ know, fugeddaboudit!  And I tink ders pots of Joisey dat are b-eee-uuu-tiful!”

Cut me some slack, man!
I said I was from Queens, not Brooklyn!
Besides, the Brooklyn crowd is too tough for us Queens folks.

Palisades Park! I remember those commercials with the famous theme song back in the day. Couldn’t imagine walking through Coney Island when it was made up of Steeplechase Park, Luna Park, and Dreamland, either. I think that was the Teddy Roosevelt era when all 3 were operating.
TK, you couldn’t have paid me a thousand dollars to go on the Parachute Jump in Steeplechase!

Wes – #64 – “All I want is both Parties re-vetted and investigated, then make it mandatory for all future candidates to be thoroughly vetted by a third party Security Firm before they are allowed to run for office…”

I think you’re asking too much of the bozo’s, Wes.

The way both sides pretend this issue doesn’t even exist reminds me of some campy 50’s sci-fi flick where the town-folks faces turn blank upon the utterance of some ominous phrase.

Post 66:
Re: Post 64;

“Here’s what I “admit”: I can get angry at willful ignorance; I can get angry at liars and cheaters; I can get angry at flagrant incompetence; I can get angry at irrational and ideological extremism; I can get angry at selfishness, self-centeredness and self-aggrandizement; and I will often get angry at unwarranted expressions of disrespect toward anyone.  (There are others – but this about covers the “political” and “forum” realm.)”

>>Then you too have anger and disdain for most Democrats and the Media as well…
———————-
Post 68:

Tk said:

“Re: Post 67;

I may have “disdain” for any number of people for any number of reasons. 

My point in the post was that I can get angry at the expression of UNWARRANTED DISRESPECT SHOWN towards anyone.  Key: “unwarranted”.”
——————

So what exactly the difference, you disrespect people who are doing their best to beat the disease and are working hard to get their live back on track, rather than go on Welfare, or living out of boxes on the street, which would you prefer?
———————

Post 64:

I realize it is most likely a pipe dream, but it is something I would truly love to see, I have faith in Humanity, but too many are too far gone. Such as the lost battle with Cancer with Tony Snow, possibly one of the really truly honest humans this modern world has ever seen. He was personal friends with most all Democrats. If he had a shortcoming, is that he had spoken the truth regardless of consequence. I would have like him regardless of Party affiliation. But the bloggers on the Daily Kos, MediaMatters, the Huffington Post, and other far left sites, actually Praised his death, thousands were cheering his passing, which is nothing short of sick.

I have absolutely no use for Ted Kennedy (he got out of the Chappaquiddick incident), politically he was a hack, but my heart went out to him when he became very ill.

Re: Post 69;

Had relatives, a long time ago, in both Queens and Brooklyn (as well as Jersey City) – and kind of preferred Brooklyn!  (Also had a college “best friend” from Brooklyn.)  Back in the “old days”, I loved Coney Island – as did almost everyone I knew!  And – back then – it was “Wonder Wheel” for the girls and scairdy-cats – and “Parachute Jump” for the rest of us!  (The “Jump” WAS a trip!)  Of course, every park back then also had some monster wooden roller coaster – and we made regular rounds trying every one of those, too!

As it turns out, my freshman year roomie in college was first cousins with Frankie Avalon – and at some point that year – we got an invite from Avalon to attend a huge “Dick Clark Cavalcade of Stars” show at the NYS Fairgrounds – where we got to schmooze with lots of the crooners, heartthrobs , boppers and rockers of the day – and where I happened to meet, among others, Freddie “Boom Boom” Cannon – who had “the” big hit with his song “Palisades Park”.

(In high school, I was also on-again-off-again involved in a band whose lead singer was Gene Pitney – and the band also occasionally filled in for “The Starlighters” who played for Joey Dee in the old Peppermint Lounge in NYC.)

Coney Island and Palisades Park were favorite summer hangouts when we were in high school – as was a Coney Island-like amusement and beach place in CT called “Savin Rock” – and, of course, Atlantic City and Wildwood on the Jersey shore when we could get there.

As Archie and Edith late sang – “Those were the days!”

Re: Post 70;

1.)  I have disdain for almost ALL politicians – and I regret the current “business model” of most of the media.

2.)  On most of those occasions on which I may NOT have any particular “respect” (or high regard) for any given person or group – it does NOT mean that I automatically evidence “disrespect” that person or group.  In most cases where I have little or no “respect” – I’m simply neutral, i.e., I couldn’t care less.

3.)  My disdain for alcoholics and addicts, recovering or not, is generally at the “work”, “employment”, or “professional” level – not necessarily on the “personal” level.  However, I generally question the trustworthiness, reliability and credibility of addictive personalities.  Personally, I do not believe that “doing their best” is always (or will always be) good enough. 

4.)  In terms of initiating and getting the approval of various bits of health-care-related legislation over the last 35-40 years – Ted Kennedy has done an awful lot of good for a LOT of people – much of it for kids, the poor, and the aged.  Anybody that denies that reality is just a partisan ideologue – and probably a dyed-in-the-wool “anti-Kennedy-ite”. 

(Remember – plenty of people warned JFK NOT to go to Dallas in 1963 – because it was an ideological hotbed of anti-Kennedy, anti-Catholic, and anti-integration sentiments.  Maybe not a lot has changed in the succeeding 50 years?)

Most all Texans voted for JFK, he won 69% of the State, he was loved in Dallas. It was NOT a Texan who shot him, it was not a native Texan who shot Oswald, both were citizens of New Orleans, although, Ruby did own a business in Dallas.

And do not forget it was a communist sympathiser (Oswald) who pulled the trigger.

The plan was put together in an anti-Castro meeting in N.O., La. They were angry with Kennedy shutting down the Bay of Pigs Operation, which resulted in a slaughter of thousands of Cubans wanting to have a free society again.

Makes one wonder why he chose the Convertible, rather than the Bullet Proof car, with the warnings he received. And why did the Secret Service change the route the day before?

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105347

Unveiled! Hawaii’s 1961 long-form birth certificates
Real documents include name of doctor, hospital

This will only force the courts to take another look into the case. But you have to read the whole article, and note that Dr. Chiyome Fukino has already been proven what he said in the beginning was a hoax.

Re: Post 73;

And they said Oliver Stone presented a distorted view!

Re: Post 74;

Being the media expert that you claim to be, you do realize that – “World Net Daily” is as far out on the right-wing fringe as is the “Daily Kos” out on the left-wing fringe – don’t you?

Unless the RNC, GOP congressional leaders, and other high-ranking GOPs take up this matter in a unified way and engage the existing constitutional process intended to determine one’s eligibility to be president – this issue is going no where and is, consequentially, meaningless.

Why don’t you devote your efforts to contribute something positive instead of wasting all your time on specious and partisan negatives?

WND and the Daily Kos are nothing alike in any form or fact. WND does not allow Hate Speech or vulgarity, that alone shows the pure lack of humanity on the part of the KOS.

Besides, pictures do not lie, do they? LOL It is nothing short of proof of Obama’s Lie.

A district court is now hearing the case, with the release of this information, it proves the Certificate of Liver Birth is not a Birth Certificate, and the numbers are out of order…One can hope…

On another note:

Lucia Whalen, she is the one who called in the 9-1-1 possible break-in at Professor of lies, Gates home. The Media have been calling her mother and children, that is outright mean spirited. Then the Calls traced to Washington DC from the FBI, on Death Treats, calling her a Racist and she would pay.

The woman never said the words Black Man, that she could not tell what race they were.

Obama should be ashamed of himself for calling what happened, during his prime time address on Health Care, he said “It is unfortunate that the Cambridge Police acted Stupidly. He showed his own Racial Bias, since the follow up question was what actually happened, he replied; “I have no details as of yet, all I know is it was unwarranted.”

Mrs. Whalen was showing concern for the person who lived there, and knowing a break-in attempt had been tried a week before, the police had already captured to two BLACK MEN who attempted to rob him, they were caught with several other peoples property. The door was jammed due to the previous attempt to break-in, it pulled part of the door frame away from the wall. It took him and his driver to use their shoulders to push the door open.

Gates should have been grateful someone was looking out for him and his home.

The president had no right to make a statement AT ALL without any facts what-so-ever, and admitted such. It is the President should apologize to the police, period!

Instead he offers a beer summit between the two, that is not an apology. Not to mention he is paying for a $7,000.00 pic-nic table, which includes a covered tree house, two wooden swing sets and a covered play area. His explanation, his children can also benefit from this. Now that is Stupid.

If I were Sgt. Crowley, and Gates did not apologize, I would get up and without a word, walk away.

An honest question deserves an honest answer:

Did Sgt Crowley have PROBABLE CAUSE to believe a crime had been committed when he arrested Gates?  If so, it was a legitimate arrest.  If not, it was an illegitimate arrest.

MD,

The police had no idea what they will face in called in “Break-ins”, often they are met with deadly force when caught.

All Crowley asked for was Identification, while Gate was trowing a fit calling all the police (including Black Officers as well, who also complained about his behavior). Gates REFUSED to show the Officers his ID, had he done as asked, there would have never been an incident.

One of the things Sgt. Crowley does voluntarily, is teach other Officers racial sensitivity. The police put up with a barrage of insults and foul language, Gate was not arrested due to the fact that he would not show his ID, which was found in his front pocket. Then he was un-cuffed and charges dropped. Have you heard the 9-1-1 call and the recorded Officers to dispatch regarding the situation?

When the Black Office on the scene tried to talk to Gates, he refused by calling him an “Uncle Tom”

Obama is taking Sgt. Crowley’s offer to sit down with Gates and the president, hoping for an apology from both. Obama took him up on the offer, then made it look as though it was his idea. The president had no right to say on Prime Time television, that the Cambridge Police acted “Stupidly” without knowing any facts at all. He only made the situation worse, and set race relations back by the police even worse, just when they were gaining respect in the community.

The POTUS has outraged the Fraternity of Police, including Black, Hispanic, and other Races of Officers.

Let us not forget, the Professor’s home had a previous break-in attempt just weeks before this happened.

Re: Post 77;

OK.  Then, how about “Huffington Post”?

The simple point here is that “World Net Daily” is certainly not any more objective, nor any more fair and balanced than the “mainstream media” you’re always railing about.

And the truth is that you don’t really want “objective, fair and balanced”.  What you want is media that fuel YOUR predisposed and biased partisanship.

Your statment:

“…The president had no right to make a statement AT ALL without any facts what-so-ever…”

Why not?

YOU do it all the time!

Re: Post 78;

Right.

But – depending on state statutes, the decision that there WAS “probable cause” is generally within the purview of the local prosecutor (who dropped the charge in this case) – or a grand jury (which wouldn’t hear misdemeanor cases).

So – ???

To me, Gates probably came across similarly to many different varieties of loudmouths (including plenty of drunks) who are arrested every day in this country – then taken to the PD – booked – ROR’ed – and then, ultimately, the prosecutor drops the charges or declines to prosecute.  In fact, it happened to G. W. Bush when he was in college and was arrested for “petty theft”, i.e., stealing Christmas decorations – and it’s probably happened to plenty others of us.

Gates overreacted and is now playing the “racially-wronged victim” to the hilt.  There’s no doubt there’s still plenty of racism (of MANY kinds) in this country – but this doesn’t really figure to be one of those instances.  AT worst – it probably degenerated into a typical “authority” vs. “anti-authority” thing – as is a common occurrence between garden-variety hotheads of all kidns and policemen of all kinds!

Post 80:

I am not the President, now am I? There is a huge difference.

Post 81:

Wow, a post that really makes sense, and without slurs. I am impressed.

Re: Post 82;

“…I am not the President, now am I?…”

THANK GOD!

“…Wow, a post that really makes sense, and without slurs…”

That’s the natural result of the fact that “MD” wasn’t spreading extremist partisan dickheadedness nor was he/she slurring anyone, including me!

Do you get how that works ???

“Gates REFUSED to show the Officers his ID, had he done as asked, there would have never been an incident.”

Untrue.  Gates did show the officer his ID, and the officer radioed it in.  His identity was no longer an issue, but the incident nevertheless happened.

The issue is whether or not the officer had PROBABLE CAUSE to believe a crime had been committed at the Gates residence when he arrested Gates.  Remember:  He arrested Gates for disorderly conduct in his own home AFTER his identity was established.

Probable cause:  yes or no?

Re: Post 84;

Personally, I’m not certain what charge Gates was originally arrested on – and I sure don’t know the local statutes and/or ordinances that are supportive of the charge in the arrest.

However – if he was arrested on a “disorderly conduct” charge – and if the specific circumstances at hand at the scene are specifically recognized and included in the applicable “disorderly conduct” statute or ordinance – then “disorderly conduct” it is and the arrest is defensible and was made “with cause”.

Obviously, there would have to be corroborating evidence, such as the sworn testimony of others or video, etc., that Gates’ conduct did fall within the parameters of the disorderly conduct as specified in the applicable ordinance or statute.

In my personal experience, I’ve seen quite a few individuals arrested for “disorderly conduct” (and worse) for bad-mouthing a cop and/or verbally resisting the cop’s authority.  I’ve seen guys spend a day or night in jail awaiting a hearing – and then being fined and/or sentenced to a couple of days in jail for what things similar to what appears to have taken place on Gates’ porch.

My wife and I had dinner at Joe and his wife (a couple of our neighbors), the subject came up about Gates (Actually Joe brought it up), with a statement rather than a question. Joe said, “I just do not know why others want to show the world what asses they are and that Obama should kept his trap shut, and the same with as Gates. The President just made a National Blunder in a speech which had nothing to do with the situation, only to make it worse.

He told my wife and me, “It’s Black people like them who make the rest of us look bad. Had this happened to us, I would have thanked the officers for looking out for me.”

Yes, he is real, but he hates his given name of Joey, whom I have been friends with for at least 15 years. He had throat cancer (never smoked in his life), but I helped him three to five days a week, he had made his wife live with her mother since he didn’t want her to see him go through the Chemo and Radiation Therapy and have to deal with him. He knew she would quit her job to stay and worry over him.

Hell, I would take him and wait while he had the treatments; I even cooked for him and took care of his yard. Between he and I, we have won the best yard of the month more than anyone else in our neighborhood. He has done the same for me in the past when I was going through Chemo…That’s what friends do. With him being 67 years old, he is strongly against a Single Payer Health Care plan. He has beaten the cancer now, but believes he will not get the same care if we change, with my own condition, I know what he means.

We both know that if Obama keeps Private and Universal together, companies will go for the cheaper care…the Government’s plan will eventually have to close their doors.

We both had a good laugh after dinner, when we briefly watched the news before putting on a DVD, and found out that to please the Blue Dog Democrats; the Liberals rebelled against the changes, now they will not vote for the Bill.

You gotta love the irony.

Re: Post 86;

Now, if you had to boil all that down into one cogent point – exactly what would that point be?

MD,

According to the taped conversation from the police to dispatch, Gates never showed his identity until the he was cuffed, this is also in the police report, one from Crowely and one from the other arresting office, Sgt. Leon Lashley a Black Sgt. who said Gates was uncontrollable, rude, called him a ni**er, and an Sgt, Lashley an “Uncle Tom”.

Cambridge Sgt. Leon Lashley gave a letter to Sgt. James Crowley to give to President Barack Obama during their so-called beer summit with Gates on Thursday night at the White House.

In the letter, which was also sent to CNN, Lashley says Gates “may have caused grave and potentially irreparable harm to the struggle for racial harmony.”

Lashley says he has become known as a traitor to his heritage by some because he “spoke the truth” about the arrest.

Gates was charged with disorderly conduct by police investigating a burglary. The charge was later dropped.

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/354/story/1009835.html

Re: Post 88;

And once again – your point is ???