The unemployment rates continue to rise, but Rahm Emanuel is already telling us how peachy keen everything is.  Regardless if we are all living in makeshift shelters on public land or not, the usual suspects will be telling us how well the stimulus package is working.

There is hope, however, despite having a lock on the White House, the Senate, and the House of Representatives, The Democrats are busy blaming the Republicans for holding up legislation.  That translates to the Democratic leadership being confronted with troublesome questions from their constituencies.  Perhaps they are commenting on the Emperor’s new clothes.

If the economy has made a significant upward move – and if unemployment is clearly going down a year from now – the DEMs will retain much, if not all, of the favor they experienced in the last election.

But wait…stop and think. Obama-Care will now pass after huge cuts made to satisfy the Blue Dog democrats in the House. After weeks of attempting to get them on-board, all the private meetings in the Basement of the House Chambers, last night they had Obama tell them they would allow a Private Care system to be made available. So today’s vote count show a very possible passage of the Bill.

But, and a big but it is, without the populace staying private, Obama-Care is now $455 Million short. Something which was not told to the B.D. Dems was the tax to be levied on Private Insurance Companies, not to mention the cost per person would be more, since there would be less people paying for Good Health Care. Obama has left the Opt Out provision in his plan, once you are in the system, you will no have the ability to leave the sub-par system Obama has put in place.

“Breaking news as I have come back to this subject…Today’s Gallup poll shows 73% of all Americans are happy with their current coverage (Poll consists of 50% Registered Republicans, 50% of Registered Democrats). The second part of the poll shows 63% say Obama-Care will make Health Care worse, with 30% says No change at all, or slightly better.)”

Then there is Cap and Trade, which 9 out of 10 of people on the street of New York thinks it has something to do with Wall Street, the deception is in the name of the Bill. Most uninformed everyday democrats have no idea what it means to them personally. It will become to be known as the largest tax hike in this countries history. The Tax will come mainly in the form of Utilities.

There was strong public reaction to this statement last week by John Conyers when asked will the Houses read the Bills before being put on the floor for a vote, which will be used in Internet commercials, and played on television before the Mid-Term elections. He said, and quoted:

“Regarding members wanting Bills read by House Members and Senate, he said “I love these members who get up here and say, “Read the Bill, Read the Bill”. What good is it to read a thousand pages, and you don’t have two days and two lawyers to find out what it means after you have read the Bill.” This after Democrats wanted reading the Bills completely and mandatory when and if Republicans held the House.” The MSM has yet to show this video, nor a transcript printed.

What happened to Obama’s promise he would post every Bill on the White House web site for no less than five days before it would come to the floor for a vote?

“Trust not what one is told by the Government until you can see the results.”

Thomas Paine – 1776

Re; Post 3;

Your Thomas Paine quote:

“…Trust not what one is told by the Government until you can see the results…”

Duuuuhhh!  How can we “see the results” of ObamaCare and Cap and Trade UNLESS WE FIRST PASS THE BILLS AND PUT THE PROGRAMS INTO ACTION?

You finally post a sensible sentence – but it’s somebody else’s sentence!  (I’ll just make believe the idea came from Wesley Pain rather than Thomas Paine.)

P.S.

Your statement:

“…What happened to Obama’s promise he would post every Bill on the White House web site for no less than five days before it would come to the floor for a vote?…”

Thus far – since you’re a “linkiac” – I’ve given you at least 8 or 10 URLs where you can follow the progress of BOTH bills you’re obsessive about – IN REAL TIME – in their entirety – and with the ability to follow their progress, step-by-step, through the House, the Senate, and all relevant committees.

Stop peddling falsities.

Post 5:

Did you even bother to read Conyer’s comment?

It does appear you have a real problem understanding what other people write, then call them names, that is your only defense. Obama PROMISED the Bills would be posted on the “White House” web site, and only on the White House site…another promise broken, still mis-leading the people.

Re: Post 5;

EVERY damned bill appears, in real time, with up-to-the-day changes, modifications, amendments, progress, votes, etc., on BOTH the House and Senate websites.

What the hell’s the difference on what website they’re posted?  They’re POSTED.  Period.

Grow up!

Post 6:

I have yet to see any ObamaCare 1,100 page Heath Care bills on the W.H. site, nor on he House or Senate sites, no details what so ever. Talk to me when you get your G.E.D. and learn the truth, Boy!

Got to go for now…

Re: Post 7;

You know, I really never had the experience directly, but in my imagination, I think dealing with you here is probably like dealing with a developmentally-challenged child.

And in spite of all your free time – and your claim that you dutifully “research” everything – and your supposed familiarity with “researching online” – you really do not seem very adept at getting to even readily-available information online. 

(Is that the REAL reason why you continuously rag on me for not showing you “proof” that Bush 43 pumped up the national debt by $6 trillion – becasue you can’t find it yourself?  In fact, it took 191 years (1791-1982) to get the national debt to the FIRST trillion – and then only 26 years (1982-2008) to accumulate the next TEN TRILLION!  And Bush 43 ran up the majority of that debt faster than nearly all of his predecessors combined.)

Anyway, as I TOLD YOU, the entire 1,018 page original version of the House’s health care bill is on the http://www.house.gov website.  Use the following URL to get your very own pdf:

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

If the link doesn’t work from here – just go to http://www.docs.house.gov and locate it there on your own!

Jheeeshh!

Anyway – ta ta!

Re: Post 7;

P.S.

Your statement:

“…Talk to me when you get your G.E.D. and learn the truth, Boy!…”

First of all – you embarrass yourself over-and-over-and-over-and-over.  But, second, doesn’t all that shooting yourself in the foot (and, I would imagine, by the magnitude of it all, in BOTH feet) HURT?

You MIGHT know something from personal experience about a G.E.D. – but you sure don’t know nuttin’ about “learning the truth”!

(Sometimes the chuckles you generate here with your sillinesses turn into outright and almost uncontrollable laughter!)

Good Luck with those foot wounds!

I have seen the link and the OLD Bill, where are the ones which were MARKED UP for the first two votes, which were stopped by the Democrats themselves?

There is no need to remind me of how much time I have on my hands; you have no idea how cognizant of that than me. I have likely forgotten more than most will ever know, and trust me when I say; I am nowhere near the person you see writing every day. I am not used to debating with people in print, in the real world, I could insult someone with conversation so they could not tell they were being insulted (which was only used on people who deserved it when they were picking on someone who were indefensible), I could fire a person and make them think I was doing them a favor, using nothing more than transactional analysis, such as budget cuts i.e. layoffs (which was something I always hated). I have an innate ability to read people, their eyes, facial expressions, the hands, the way they would react when confronted or during an interview.

The people I hired I knew I could trust and do the job, in return they had my trust, but it was usually earned. If anyone screwed up, they gained my admiration by openly telling the truth and not putting blame on others…I preferred reason, as opposed to excuses. One thing which would impress me the most was a hard worker who had the concept of Common Sense, to be able to think on their feet and be able to act. My goal was to move my employees up the ladder, I knew Managers who would keep very good people from advancing, afraid to lose them.

I love hard work, but I knew I would eventually have to work in a suit and tie, but always kept coveralls and work boots in my office. The heavier the workload and/or the jobs. The more the
the better…

All my employees were treated very well, when you show people how much they are appreciated, they will do anything for you. I was able to double our output, by training going to the source of the jobs; I showed them how to stage multiple jobs by creating staging areas, work slips were attached to each job, so anyone could tell their customers exactly when the jobs would ship.

Doing due diligence when we would purchase companies, wrote legal contracts for new customers, making it easier for our legal department’s work load easier.

Working in the Sahara, where there were not any roads, all the Libyan Government allowed us were compasses, no two way radios in the vehicles, they were confiscated in Customs to send to their Armies and Desert Militias. There were times when Militia members would take your vehicles if given the chance. So you got used to getting shot at, there were times when there was no way out, and had to give them up. But if you kept yourself calm, you knew to leave markers if you could not stay where you were. Often a search would not be called right away, due to the fact it took time to get to your location. I taught survival techniques to everyone, and taught how to do searches for missing people. Our trucks carried two spare tires, due to the 140 degree heat, the silica sand would often over inflate your tires, and they would explode. Most would not even last a month over there.

I could go on and on, but there is really no way to explain what is like out there, you have to be there and learn to conquer your fears.

Everything you did, whether in the Desert or working jobs, it all boils down to one thing…Common Sense, without that, you would not last long; you must learn to think fast.

That is what is missing in both houses, these people know nothing about common sense, and one must stop and think about consequences to the people before blindly rushing into things without real thought about impact.

There are few if any politicians I truly trust…if any.

Your problem is you cannot take what you dish out, didn’t think so…

BTW – If you want to have a battle of wits, you are half way there.

The politco is a joke.  Why does accuracy in media always site from it?  I’ve heard from many different people who know what theyre talking about that the republicans can pick up eighty seats.  A lot of the freshmen democrats are in conservative districts.  They voted with obama eighty seven percent of the time.  They’ll be gone!  The senate is a different story not enough up for re election although the numbers show chris dodd is in trouble haha.

Also in trouble in the Senate is Arlen Specter, Harry Reid, all in all there are 18 Democratic senators up for re-election in 2010. I would not count on a Super Majority, Obama has lost most Independents who put many democrats in office.

Speaking of Arlen Specter, this little video from a Town Hall to support ObamaCare:

On Friday July31, 2009 at a Town Hall in Pennsylvania with Arlen Specter and Kathleen Sebelius, a woman stood up holding a document, as she asked the two…”As I look at this Health Care plan, I see nothing about Health or Care.  What I see is a bureaucratic nightmare, Senator. Medicaid is broke, Medicare is broke, Social Security is broke, and you want us to believe that a Government who cannot run “Cash for Clunkers” program is going to run One Fifth of our of our US Economy, No Sir…No!” She voted for Obama.

This plan (Cash for Clunkers) was meant to run for four months, in four days it was bankrupt, now they are asking for another $2 Billion Dollars, which has already passed Congress…What has happened is, many greedy people have bought automobiles from Police Auctions of confiscated auto’s and buying junked cars from people who could not get enough for a trade in, but kept the car, are using them on the Cash for Clunkers program. They are even doing this on cars and trucks which are up to 20 years old, which no dealership would give them barley anything for an auto that old.

The National Insurance Industry hired a private independent unbiased firm to investigate several random States on Vehicle Inspections. They found by using Minorities in their investigation that 61% more minorities were being passed on sub-par automobiles, whereas Caucasians were not being passed until required work has been done. They took 50 Caucasians, 50 Blacks, and 50 Latinos who all volunteered in these States. Some of the findings were, most minorities would receive free Brake Lights, free Turn Signal lights, free running lights, tires without enough tread, horns which did not work, and so on…Everyone was intentionally given the same problems. Only 1.5% of Caucasians who did pass with sub-par autos, were all young 18 year old pretty white girls, wearing mini-skirts.

If GM gave me a free automobile, I would sell it for cash or trade it in for a Ford, who did not take a bailout. Hell, for the first time in my life, I may even opt for a foreign car over GM.

I just do not do crooked, even when allowed.

Re: Post 10;

Good for you. (???)

(You can tell the violinists they can stop playing now.)

Your soliloquy:

“…I am not used to debating with people in print, in the real world, I could insult someone with conversation so they could not tell they were being insulted (which was only used on people who deserved it when they were picking on someone who were indefensible), I could fire a person and make them think I was doing them a favor, using nothing more than transactional analysis, such as budget cuts i.e. layoffs (which was something I always hated). I have an innate ability to read people, their eyes, facial expressions, the hands, the way they would react when confronted or during an interview…”

Well, then, take some writing (and insulting?) classes in all that free time.

(Now you can also tell the horn section that they, too, can stop playing.  And, hopefully, you won’t hurt yourself doing all that patting of your own back!)

Geez.

Re: Article – [Even though the 2010 elections are more than a year away the GOP is seeing hopeful signs that they can reverse some of the losses of the past two election cycles.]

The Republicans are counting on taking some 2010 seats by default as some sort of repudiation of Obama and the Democrats, as they did in 1994 in repudiating Clinton and the Dems. They may be in for a big surprise if they don’t clean up their act because enough Republican voters are on to them now, as opposed to the 1994 elections.

An excerpt from the latest article from columnist Devvy Kidd addresses this –
[“I called my house member last week and asked if the useless, constitutionally challenged, Randy Neugebauer (R-TX), would vote for another $2 BILLION dollars for this insanity. The young man I spoke with said no. I explained to him none of this is legal. His response was, and I’m paraphrasing: Well, it may be a blessing in disguise for 2010 to help the Republicans retake Congress. I said good bye and gently hung up the phone.
From the time the Republicans took control of Congress (January 1995- November 2006), they outspent the Democrats previous forty years of stealing us blind. Not a single unconstitutional cabinet was eliminated. They didn’t lift a finger to get us out of the communist UN, stop the rape of we the people by stopping all illegal payments to the World Bank, BIS, foreign central banks and foreign aid. Not a single step was taken to get us out of these unconstitutional, destructive trade treaties which have killed off MILLIONS of good paying jobs: NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO. The young man in Neugebauer’s office is a product of brain washing. His brain has been washed of common sense and solid facts in favor of blind loyalty to his political party.”]

Re: My post #15

The 2 billion dollar ‘insanity’ she was referring to was the “Cash for Clunkers” program.

Post 15:

“From the time the Republicans took control of Congress (January 1995- November 2006), they outspent the Democrats previous forty years of stealing us blind.”

Are those numbers adjusted for inflation?

On the other hand, what the Democrats have spent since 2006 till today is way more than the numbers you quote.

Meanwhile, we have Canada and the U.K. begging us to stop making the same mistake they made.

That is why I have told TK that one cannot depend on the House and Senate versions of the bill on their sites, I have seen the newest markup, from a US.Gov site, and it is not on the House or Senate sites.

Of course Obama is smart to offer both Private and Single payer programs, that is exactly what the U.K. did and theirs ended up socialist anyway. It has now been tried in two States, Hawaii and Massachusetts and has yet to work as they wanted, and are indeed owing money to their Health Care systems.

We do not need anyone between ourselves and Doctors, we do not need some additional to offer us advice on “End of life scenario’s” at age 70 plus years of age.

Post 14:

I should have never mentioned Thesauruses to you, I see that you have been using them online now. ROFLMAO

Mark my words, these are things which will negatively effect everyone, even you…and will come to regret it, and I can say that without being a sarcastic jacka$$.

Re: Post 17;

More of your babbling.

Your statement:

“…We do not need anyone between ourselves and Doctors…”

EVERY HEALTH INSURANCE POLICY ALREADY HAS SOMEONE “between ourselves and doctors”.

Be it a “gatekeeper” or “claims representative” or “adjuster” or whatever you choose to call those people who “approve” (or disapprove) payment for the medical services used by the insured.  And – don’t forget “the fine print” – which is often the most significant impediment standing between doctor and patient.

From what I’ve seen over the last 20 years, HMO-type health care plans have been the worst in this regard – but the anecdotal stories of people being screwed by their health insurers refusal to pay, regardless of type of plan, are legion – and the vast majority of people filing for bankruptcy due to inability to pay medical bills ACTUALLY HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE – that didn’t pay.

Don’t make simple-minded and misleading declarations.

(And I have no idea what your incomprehensible comment about a “thesaurus” is supposed to mean.)

Post 18:

“Don’t make simple-minded and misleading declarations.”

I do not, what is simple mindedness and misleading are your “Assumptions without fact”.

Why is it you are always so defensive, but I think you know.

“(And I have no idea what your incomprehensible comment about a “thesaurus” is supposed to mean.)”

I think you do know, and will not admit to doing just what I said.

Re: Post 19;

I’m definitely not “defensive”, Wesley.

I am often “offended” by some of your outlandish posts and become “offensive” in criticizing them – because they deserve it!

You make many simple-minded and misleading declarations – and you often descend to posting purely inciteful and hateful propaganda.  I get insulted – and obviously, offended – by such drivel – and respond accordingly.

(And, see, once again – you make your post about ME instead of responding to my criticism of one of your egregious declarations.)

Give it a rest you two exchange emails would you stop making a mockery of the comments section.  Your totally off topic its pathetic.

It went off post on Post #4, just as with any article, search the threads where I have posted, in EVERY instance TK attacks me personally, and almost always gets everyone off topic.

I have complained about another poster who used to do the same thing, but used several User IDs. Since I donate to AIM twice a year to keep this site online. When this person caused posting to stop, I phoned AIM and complained about this person with many names, one was Brian R. Sullivan, who was also, lauren, laurens daughter, and so on…After discussion, AIM kicked him off in violation of the rules, and all was fine, till TK started doing the same kind of off-topic posting.

I dare you to look at back posts, and look and if TK and I are in there, you will see who too us off topic.

Which I often remind him during the threads. Although this one is not as blatant as the others.

Re: Post 21;

I have stated to “Wesley In Dallas” on several occasions: If he gives it up – so will I.

However, he has nothing better to do all day – and, in fact, constantly dickering and bickering with me is apparently what keeps him going.

And, he likes to say “go back and look at the posts”.  Well, do so!  And you’ll find Wesley NEVER responds to nor defends a specific criticism I’ve made of something he posted – he just launches into some kind of “attack the messenger” garbage – and it degenerates from there – endlessly – because he simply insists on having the last word – however simple-minded and unoriginal his last word might be.

And, when that fails, he invariably descends into crying and whining, as he’s doing here in Post 22.

And, PLEASE, do read Wesley’s posts.  You’ll see that many are incomprehensible or nearly so, or have no point whatsoever, or, very often, have NOTHING to do with the article that’s kicking off the thread.  In cases where I’ve criticized something in his post – NOT ONCE has he defended his statement in his post; rather, he starts babbling about something completely irrelevant or attacking me – ANYTHING to evade having to respond to the specific criticism of his post.

In this thread, for example, (in my Post 18) I criticized his statement that “we don’t need anyone between us and out doctors” (from his Post 17) and included several details and examples illustrating MY point about his statement.  In his following two posts (Posts 19 and 22) – he completely EVADES responding to my criticism of his STATEMENT – and he launches into nothing but bitching about me.  Note also that HE brought up a n assumed complaint about Obama’s health care plan – when the actual subject of this thread is the potential for GOPs to pick up votes for the mid-term elections in 2010.

Also notice my original post (Post 2) and that it was a comment on the ECONOMY and was DIRECTLY related to the article above (and to Post 1).  THEN – notice Post 3 – a rambling post on ObamaCare, Cap and Trade and whether proposed congressional bills are actually ever posted online as Obama allegedly promised.

Then, YOU DECIDE who initially went off topic and began the dickering and bickering.

All anyone really needs to do is a search on TK, you will find all the BS, including Post 23 which is a lie.

The old turn it around trick, I thought you were a Liberal, you just proved it to everyone.

Re: Post 24;

Will there ever be a time when say something that actually makes sense?

(And Post 23 is a “lie”?  Are you blind, too?  Follow the instructions – then defend your statement!)

Wesley – (re: post #17) – “Are those numbers adjusted for inflation?”

I checked a couple of ‘debt sites’ to verify the columnist’s claim and here’s what I found. As far as whether inflation was taken in consideration, I don’t know. I would assume that their numbers did reflect inflation adjustments since people rely on them for reference. Nevertheless, check out the sites and determine that for yourself.

According to http://www.swivel.com/graphs/spreadsheet/5543118 –

In Jan. 1955 US Nat’l Debt was 280 Billion when Democrats take over congress.
(I used above website since other site below doesn’t go back as far as 1955)

According to http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/NPGateway –

Jan. 1995 (Republicans take over Congress) US Nat’l Debt was 4.7 Trillion

[So, National Debt increased by 4.4 Trillion under Democrat-controlled congress between 1955 and 1995.]

Jan.  2007 (Republicans lose Majority) US Nat’l Debt was 8.6 Trillion

[So, National Debt increased by 3.9 Trillion under Republican-controlled congress between 1995 and 2007.]

Finally, on Aug. 4, 2009, US Nat’l Debt is 11.6 Trillion

[So, National Debt increased by 3 Trillion ..so far, under Democrat-controlled congress.]

As it turns out, the Republican majority didn’t quite outspend the Dems, however, those numbers, to me Wes, are nothing to be proud of. It reflects a far-cry from their smaller government/less spending rhetoric over the years, and unless they start becoming fiscally conservative, I’m not sure if the Republicans are going to see a reenactment of 1994 in the 2010 elections.

As far as the Usurper’s health care bill which you also mentioned – I’m dead set against it, just as I was dead set against Bush’s massive Medicare prescription drug program.

Re: Post 26;

The issue (and my point) here wasn’t whether the DEMs or the GOPs contributed more to the national debt.

(And keep in mind that while any particular congress may pass a budget – any president at that same time can also “Veto” that budget – sending it back to, let’s say, “be reduced”.  Reagan, Bush 41 and Bush 43 COULD HAVE VETOED budgets approved by DEM congresses – and one might also research how individual congressional GOPs actually voted on budgetary issues under the three presidents listed here.)

MY POINT was that GOPs are at best disingenuous and, at worst, hypocritical, when claiming THEY are the “party of fiscal conservatism” and that DEMs are the party of “spend, spend, spend”.

And, in reality, Reagan almost TRIPLED the national debt during his administration by drastically and purposely expanding the military budget – and granting broad tax breaks – WITHOUT making other concomitant CUTS in the budget.

Bush 43 doubled the national debt during his administration (with six years of a GOP majority in Congress) – by granting the same broad tax breaks as Reagan did – while also conducting expensive wars on two fronts – and significantly expanding government with the Homeland Security Department – WITHOUT making ANY concomitant budget cuts along the way.

History shows that GOPs spend as much as DEMs – and the only difference is what all the spending is for.

TK – re #27

I wasn’t addressing anything you said in any previous post you made in this thread. I was simply replying to Wesley’s #17 question concerning the latest Devvy Kidd article that I brought up in my post #15.

Re: Post 28;

Well, good for you.

Then just make believe I didn’t begin my post with “Re: Post 26”.  (You’re good at “make believe”, aren’t you?)

Post 26:

Neo-conned,

As for your statement “As far as the Usurper’s health care bill which you also mentioned – I’m dead set against it, just as I was dead set against Bush’s massive Medicare prescription drug program.”

I could not agree more, however, it I must have stated this in another thread, but I was a Democrat until after JFK. LBJ’s escalation of the war in Vietnam at a time when Kennedy wanted them out, I thought was unbecoming of a VP taking over for a fallen man. Johnson should have at least preserved his legacy.

As for the numbers during my time as a Republican, give me some time to look at those, I have a post or two to answer…and helping my son before his wedding less than a week from now.

Wes

Can we agree to disagree on the fact that TK will keep going until he/she gets the last word?

Post 15:

Reading about Devvy Kidd, she seems to be more of a Libertarian than anything else. I have always been against NAFTA and CAFTA, but I do not see it as an issue that can just be deleted without consequences, especially with China. I see those bills (especially since Clinton rushed into this, as poorly put together, no oversight, no balanced trade restrictions, no restrictions on companies moving out of the USA.

Newly declassified documents show that President Bill Clinton personally approved the transfer to China of advanced space technology that can be used for nuclear combat.

Clinton told the US can Congress these “Chips” are for Weather Satellites, which are actually targeting systems, and for missile guidance. I consider this to be an act of treason.

It is not clear this information was known to future Administrations, since it has been newly declassified, we may never know.

The documents show that in 1996 Clinton approved the export of radiation hardened chip sets to China. The specialized chips are necessary for fighting a nuclear war.

“Waivers may be granted upon a national interest determination,” states a Commerce Department document titled “U.S. Sanctions on China.”

“The President has approved a series of satellite related waivers in recent months, most recently in November, 1996 for export of radiation hardened chip sets for a Chinese meteorological satellite,” noted the Commerce Department documents.

Who really knows to what extent of what and protections were granted for NAFTA, much of the communications were between China and Clinton during his visits to the Communist State. There is no doubt is was not good for the United States without the above mentioned lack of any restrictions. We do not know if Bush could have done anything at all, or if he did have the power to stop it from continuing. If he did have control over NAFTA and failed to act, on one or two nations where the trade was acceptable. The deal could have to have been negated if possible. I am for balanced trade, but not for what NAFTA accomplished.

I do know that if NAFTA was eliminated, it would have killed all trade with any country. But, if Bush could have killed NAFTA and kept the trade he needed, and did not, then there is no excuse for Bush not acting upon the deal, but to the chagrin of losing trade altogether.

These special computer chips are designed to function while being bombarded by intense radiation. Radiation hardened chips are considered critical for atomic warfare and are required by advanced nuclear tipped missiles.

Now that Obama is in office, he has intentionally used NAFTA, CAFTA, and the WTO, to allow businesses, if not encouraging them to move off shore, to help him gain control over the US industry, to allow for Unions to control more and more of future business.

But one does have to question Clinton’s motives for passing the Bill. Many of those documents are still sealed, until they are unsealed, we will not know much else, and we cannot know what Clinton discussed with China, since they did not allow ANY press during their meetings.

The Obama White House is angry that the Congressional Democrats (who went home last Friday), are holding Town Halls, most all of them are being inundated with disgruntled Citizens, they are comprised of Republicans, Democrats, and Independents.

But to hear the MSM and the White House are telling the media that these people are all Republicans, and that they are being bussed in…that the whole thing was orchestrated by the RNC.

When you have poll numbers by all polling, 78% to 80% are happy with their current Health Care, and thinks the Government has no business getting into changing something they like. Sure Obama is telling everyone that Private Health Care will not change. If ObamaCare passes, the insurance companies will have to increase the cost to companies and customers, as a result of this country cannot sustain two separate Health Care systems. Eventually (and Obama knows this) the Companies will opt for the cheapest Health Care, which will be his, and the Private insurance companies will be forced to close since they will be have the ability to keep up with free heath care.

>>(Call it what you will, but when you put the cards on the table, you will see the lie.)<<

Article title: Call For Informants: If You Oppose Obamacare, Even in ‘Casual Conversation,’ the White House Wants to Know About It

“If you see anybody publicly opposing President Obama’s plan to implement a government-centric overhaul of the health care system, the White House wants you to report that person (or persons) ASAP.

From the White House website:

There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).

>>(I am not going to post the web site, it is an invasion of Privacy.)<<

Emphasis added. Of course, as we’ve seen in the health care debate to date, the term “disinformation” is used by the Obama White House as a catchall to describe any opposition to the President’s push for single-payer, government-run health care — meaning the White House wants to be informed of any forwarded emails or blog posts or any “casual conversations” that could be taken as opposition to their health care overhaul plan.

The White House has, as yet, offered no explanation of what it is they plan to do with the tips on policy opposition they hope to receive from citizen informers.

Interestingly, as Jake Tapper pointed out on Twitter this morning, the title of that post on the White House is a quote from John Adams’ 1770 “Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials.”

Tell me we have not reached a new low in this Country.

Though I must admit, Wesley did just get the last word on himself.

Post 34:

RIslander,

On your Post #31, I fully agree with your statement.

On Post #34:

Not exactly sure what you mean.

Wesley…

Thank you !  Got your message !  Why am I not surprised that the hockey puck would do such a thing. (The school yard bully cannot handle what he dishes out to others.)  I guess there is absolutely no hope for that mentally disturbed liberal.  Anyway, continuing to read YOUR most informative postings, as well as some of the other voices of reason who post here. <smile>

Hi Diane,

Welcome back, I had to do a name search to find you again, I have posted in so many threads, I could not remember where I last saw you after out favorite post was closed.

Re: My post #33: I find it amusing that the Liberals and the White House call Democrat protests, “The people rightly voicing their opinions, it is their right to oppose anything Republican.” But when the shoe is on the other foot, it’s planned and meant to disrupt the process. They always buss people in their protests, in all my years I have never seen or heard anything as ridiculous as spying on dissenters, and refuse to admit there are as many Democrats as their are Republicans, and once again we have the media covering for him.

What happened to freedom of speech without fear of reprisals, the Framers are rolling over in their graves.

As with any elected president, I would have given Obama a fair shake had he stuck to his campaign promises, instead he is bankrupting the country. It is one thing to Loan Companies money to help them out, but completely different when you force them to take TARP and Stimulus so the Government can own private business. I never expected to see a new Saul Alinsky.

Re: Post 31;

The “last word”?

Only with a couple of specific posters here – and only because I either totally disagree with some of the purely ideological and outlandishly extremist (and oft-times false) stuff they continuously post – or – because THEY started up with unnecessary name-calling, labeling and the attack-the-messenger thing.

Re: Post 32;

Your statement:

“…I have always been against NAFTA and CAFTA, but I do not see it as an issue that can just be deleted without consequences, especially with China. I see those bills (especially since Clinton rushed into this, as poorly put together, no oversight, no balanced trade restrictions, no restrictions on companies moving out of the USA…”

I agree with your first sentence – but your ifnerence aimed at Clinton is wrong.

If you do your homework with an open mind, you’ll find out that origination of the ideas for NAFTA (and CAFTA) emanated from within the Reagan Whitehouse – that it was fleshed out by the Bush 41 administration – and that NAFTA was simply accepted and signed by Clinton as it was passed on to him – which, nevertheless, amazed me because he enthusiastically went along with a Reagan-Bush 41 “globalist-internationalist” policy (although, he has certainly become a globalist-internationalist in his own right). I happen to believe NAFTA was a DISASTER for the American economy.

And, I’m sure you well know, Reagan got the whole NAFTA ball rolling by opening the door to the illegal immigration that has been plaguing America for the past 25 years.

Re: Post 33;

Your statement:

“…But to hear the MSM and the White House are telling the media that these people are all Republicans, and that they are being bussed (sic) in…that the whole thing was orchestrated by the RNC…”

How quickly you forget.

During the 2000 Election controversy in Florida – in the days right after the election, when calls were being made for recounts, etc. – the GOP DID BUS AROUND large groups of activists among the counties where there seemed to be the most problems with the vote count – to jam and disrupt the County Clerk’s offices where vote-counting matters are handled.  The activists looked like a crowd of young GOP lawyers and/or CPAs (which they were) – and they were referred to as “The Brooks Brothers Protestors” – or some such monniker.

At the time, the GOP was open (in Florida) about doing this, i.e., recruiting “professional” protestors and busing them around to disrupt the places where the GOP felt most vulnerable – to protest and disrupt any and all possibilities of a “recount” – and, simply, to intimidate.

There’s no reason to believe this can’t be occurring again with regard to protests, disruptions and intimidations at DEM Town Hall meetings on the health care reform plan.  (It’s all about getting free TV video and sound bites showing opposition to the DEM plan.)

Re: Post 36;

Your statement:

“…I guess there is absolutely no hope for that mentally disturbed liberal…”

And, of course, someone criticizing the “Cash For Clunkers” program and warning people to stay away from it because “its nothing more than a way for the government to get into our private computers” – - is NOT “mentally disturbed”???

Yeah, you’re a real “voice of reason”, lady!

At what hour does the DNC close for the day?

Re: Post 37;

Your comment:

“… As with any elected president, I would have given Obama a fair shake had he stuck to his campaign promises, instead he is bankrupting the country. It is one thing to Loan Companies money to help them out, but completely different when you force them to take TARP and Stimulus so the Government can own private business. I never expected to see a new Saul Alinsky…”

So, don’t you think you should probably start packing up and looking for a new homeland where there are no Saul Alinskys?  There’s surely no future in a “bankrupt” country.  And I sure wouldn’t want to be anywhere where the government “forces” things on people or businesses.  And, really, when the government owns failed private businesses – it’s, like, time to suck the gas pipe, isn’t it?

You have NEVER given ANY Democrat – or someone you consider “liberal” or “left-wing” – a “fair shake”.

Now – when I get on Bush 43’s case after putting up with his incompetence for EIGHT YEARS – you criticize me for being “wrong”, “a liberal” or a “Democrat” – or even a Socialist or Marxist.  But you?  After 6 1/2 months of the Obama administration – you’ve written him off and every other person you perceive to be a member of his administration, Democrats in general, ALL liberals and, especially, EVERYONE who voted for him – but YOU – after just 192 days – have got it all scoped out – and it’s a definitive and unmitigated disaster?

Yeah.

“Fair shake”.

tk (post 41)..Oh did I say that ? <lol>…Gee, must have been because I read the crazy terms of agreement warning from that govt website which was shown on FOX NEWS ! And FOX media were the ones who were warning the people about clicking onto that website. Not me ! And all I did was to post on AIM about what I had seen and had hoped that someone might shed some more light on that subject, or had seen that, as well. But instead, you went bizerk and proceeded with your name calling and attacks. So typical of you when you refuse to accept anything you read which anyone might happen to post. But you expect everyone else to have a compltely open mind with your postings ! And why are you still so angry and upset over that post, anyway?  I am beginning to wonder if perhaps you took advantage of that Cash for Clunkers program. <lol>

Wes….Thanks for the “W.B.”

Once again, I agree with you ! 
And I also believe that we have gotten another Saul Alinsky.  Everything that he has done, is doing and wants to do certainly seems to be pointing in that direction; not to mention the type of people that he has been friends with, and who were his mentors for so many years.  And those Czars are scarey personalities too !  The one Czar who became a communist while serving time in prison belongs to an organization called APOLLO. Do you know anything about that group ?

Diane…Post 45:

First of all this will lead to another Obama Czar, Van Jones, more below.

The Apollo Alliance are true believers with an absolute belief that government is the solution to all social and economic problems, allied with labor unions, subsidy-seeking companies and global warming / weather control advocates.

Labor-dominated lobbying and electoral network which is heavily influenced by progressive plutocrats and secret donors working on anti-corporate, anti-military, welfare-state, and other “progressive” programs. Helped incubate the Apollo Alliance, now a project of “Tides Center”.

The Tides Center (Also called the Tides Foundation) is another player in turning this country into a Socialist/Marxist America.

Institute for America’s Future (IAF) is connected with Campaign for America’s Future. In 2004 IAF board members included Los Angeles Mayor and Obama Economic Transition Team member, Antonio Villaraigosa, of whom Trevor Loudon has written, and AFL-CIO president and Democratic Socialists of America member, John Sweeney, you will find a George Soros connection. In 1999 IAF received $100,000 in start-up funding and $465,000 in 2005 from Soros’s Open Society Institute. The Tides Foundation gave IAF $100,000 in 2001, $225,000 in 2004, $218,791 in 2005, and $152,196 in 2007. You may recall from earlier RBO posts that Tides works as a donor money laundering operation.

Also, the Sandler Family Supporting Foundation gave IAF $100,000 in 2005. Yesterday RBO connected Democratic mega donors Herbert and Marion Sandler to Henry Louis Gates Jr., Obama friend and mentor and the subject of the recent Gates-Gate scandal.

The Apollo Alliance has a long list of endorsers, including Green for All, the organization founded by “Green Jobs Czar” Van Jones; Change to Win, an ACORN entity; ACORN itself; SEIU (son of ACORN); the Ella Baker Center, another Van Jones entity; and the Working Families Party (need we say ACORN?).

RBO (The Russian Brotherhood Organization of the USA, which is a fraternal benefit society), The RBO has done a number of articles on San Francisco Bay Area radical agitator and committed Marxist-Leninist-Maoist, Van Jones.

More here on Van Jones and the RBO:

http://therealbarackobama.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/loudon-obama-appoints-former-communist-to-white-house-green-job

There are many more links concerning RBO and Van Jones.

I have this saved in a file, if anyone wants more links involving Van Jones and the RBO…

Re: Post 44;

So, then, Fox News is the far right-wing paranoid nutcase warning people that “Cash For Clunkers os the government’s way of trying to get into private computers”?  Glad you cleared that up.

Your statement:

“…And why are you still so angry and upset over that post, anyway?…”

Because it’s one of the dumbest and most mindlessly paranoid statements I could imagine any reasonably-educated and reasonably-intelligent adult making – even a committed partisan wingnut. 

(And it makes me wonder if the person who buys into such a ludicrous statement and conveys it to others will actually remember where they parked their space ship.)

Ma’am, with all due respect: it is an absolutely nutty statement originally made by some extremist wingnut who is obviously incapable of making the distinction between a possibly credible statement and a completely outlandish and bizarrely incredible statement – leading to some unthinking person and/or persons buying into it and spreading it around!

If Fox News was spreading this kind of garbage – then that should tell you that Fox News is certainly not beyond pandering to the extremist (and paranoid) right-wing, wild-eyed fringe.

My personal opinion is that any “normal” person hearing such an outlandish thing would laugh it off for being the absurdity that it is – and would know enough not to spread such a lunacy.

Besides – spreading this kind of garbage threatens the honest and effective attempts at governance in this country!  And, obsessive, extreme, nutcase political and religion-based partisanship is a real cancer that can destroy any country.

Re: Post 45;

So, if so, what are you personally proposing to do about it? 

(By the way, what did you do about it when we were informed by the previous president, deceitfully, it turns out, that it was NECESSARY to invade a foreign country half-a-world away?  Did that sound the least bit Hitlerian or Stalinist to you (think Poland and Hungary) – as you claim the current president sounds “Alinskyish”?)

TK….Once again, the govt website was shown on Fox News. And that warning/terms of agreement was put on the govt website by people in govt. Fox was simply reporting the truth, unlike the MSM liberal trash that you must watch.  Period. My goodness, what a big fuss you are making, as usual !

Wesley….Post #46

Thank you for sharing what you found.  I will also refer to the website that you sent.

I think it is so disturbing that the Democratic party and liberal media are now trying to silence and demonize the people who are opposing Socialism in America.  Every day citizens who are showing up at town hall meetings to exercise their constitutional rights, and are being referred to as “angry mobs”!  It’s disgraceful!  And yet these are the same leftists who praised people for protesting the Iraq war, and amnesty for illegal citizens, etc.  And we have one of the biggest community organizers ever for a President, and it’s been fine for him or for ACORN groups to protest.
And isn’t it amusing that BO stated that he is always willing go to countries (whose leaders do not like us very much), and listen to them regarding their points of view, and that he is willing to negotiate with them ? But now he, along with too many of representatives are not willing to listen to the American people ? Some democrats are not even showing up for those meetings, I heard.  Just goes to show what kind of CHANGE we are getting. BO is not helping to make anything better for this country, as he promised he would.  But of course, I have heard him say that he believes the United States constitution is outdated. It’s all extremely disturbing.

Re: Post 49;

The statement that “Cash For Clunkers is a way for the government to get into our private computers” is an extreme, stupid and outlandish statement – regardless of who originated it.

If you don’t get exactly how incredibly ridiculous it is – well, then, I guess I would have to feel sorry for you.

(And, to me, people who would repeat such a stupid thing have no credibility whatsoever and should be eliminated from any serious discussions.)

Re; Post 50;

All blather.

Personally, I think your constant, aimless and fantasy-based ragging on and incessant criticism of the government is unAmerican.

Wouldn’t a reasonable person with average intelligence wait until there ACTUALLY WAS a COMPLETED, finalized two-house-reconciled health care reform bill being openly debated by and awaiting a final vote in Congress – - BEFORE you started making reactionary statements and endless criticisms of it?

You really don’t have a clue about what you’re bitching about – and you lay everything on Obama’s head – when the truth of the matter is that the lack of direction and knowledge on this issue is the result of the fact that OBAMA NEVER PROVIDED A DETAILED HEALTH CARE REFORM PLAN!  HE left it up to Congress to develop the details – and the only full version of a bill that actually exists was written by a committee in the House of Representatives.  At this point – there is NO SENATE BILL yet.  (And – when there is – it will still have to be reconciled with the House version before each chamber votes on it.)

You’re blowing smoke at smoke!

(And, keep in mind.  The real problem in health care is COST – and the 15% of working Americans who don’t have HC insurance – and the 5% of self-employed and workers in businesses that do not provide HC insurance and who have to buy the insurance individually at exorbitant premiums – is another serious problem.

And, of course, since annual health care expenditures amount to some 20% of the entire U.S. economy – as the prices increase and become more-and-more unaffordable – making it even more impossible for individuals and small businesses to access insurance and/or care – the overall economy will suffer and will decline dramatically.

And, further, for many years, the biggest source of new jobs in this country has been – health care.)

Of course we should all forget about the Cash 4 Clunkers, and while we are at it, let’s forget about the reporting of “fishy” emails to the White House blog site, also. 

Keep at it, personal attacks have always been the haven of the Left.  But, as with everything else they’re caught doing, they blame the other guys.  You gotta love it!

The funny part is, of those I speak to who voted for this administration, their defense of it is either growing much more mild, or, is gone altogether.

Re: Post 53;

Your statement:

“…personal attacks have always been the haven of the Left…”

C’mon!  That’s a ridiculous right-winger shibboleth that certainly cannot be proven.

In fact – who’s always calling somebody a “communist”, “socialist” or Marxist; who’s always calling somebody a “radical”; who’s always calling somebody “unpatriotic” or “unAmerican”; who’s always calling somebody a “baby killer” ??? ??? ???

In reality, in the modern era, let’s say, since WW II – one could make an exceptionally strong case that unwarranted politically-based “personal attacks” on a broad scale were initiated and perfected by one particular Republican Senator from Wisconsin between 1947 and 1957.

(And, by the way: Any old time you can, give a listen to, say, Ann Coulter, Michael Savage, Michelle Malkin, Glenn Beck – even Sean Hannity – if you want to hear some “personal attacks”.  In fact, Savage is currently making a living attacking Obama as a “foreign-born commie pinko marxist” – and Beck has been attacking Obama as a “white racist” – and check out some of the right-wing attacks that occur here!  And, of course, Karl Rove perfected the “personal attack” as a normal campaigning tool (even against his own), e.g., “McCain is the father of a black child as the result of an adulterous affair”.  Note: the kid was adopted.)

I rest my case.  In fact, post 54 only goes on to prove my point.  Catch them with their hand in the cookie jar, and they blame you. 

That having been said, calm yourself down, and get back to the hospital before they close the gates for the night.

Re: Post 55;

You had no case.

(And – exactly WHO immediately engaged in a verbal “personal attack” here, i.e., “calm yourself down, and get back to the hospital before they close the gates for the night”?  It never ceases to amaze me how blatant ignorant hypocrisy has no shame.)

TK, I have looked at your posts, and if we are going to discuss hypocrisy, you are certainly the one to give the rest of us a lesson or two.  By the way, my sentiments stand.

RIslander,

He cannot help himself, he is no better than MSNBC anchor calling the Taxed Enough Already (TEA) protesters; “Teabaggers” that was one of their many FCC violations which cost them a huge fine.

Until I heard that, actually Fox News reported the story, but refused to say the name on the air, so I had to do a search on “MSNBC foul words” and found it was Teabagger(s). I even had to look that one up as I had never heard the term before. When I saw the meaning of the word, I was wondering why those three so-called reporters still had a job.

One must wonder if our dissenter is one of those.

Re: Post 57;

“Case” and “sentiments” are two drastically different things.

And talking about hypocrisy – you were the one criticizing the Left for “personal attacks” – and when someone evidenced a detailed difference of opinion with you – you immediately engaged in a “personal attack” rather thanintelligently responding to the difference of opinion.

Consequently, neither your “case” nor your “sentiments” have any credibility whatsoever.

Re: Post 58;

Since “Rislander” doesn’t want to recognize the “personal attack” quotient in his OWN post – - then you are the PERFECT EXAMPLE disproving his “theory” that “personal attacks” emanate only from the Left.

(Are you really a closet Leftist, Wes!  In any event, you perfectly evidence the “personal attack” mentality that is endemic ON THE RIGHT – as do some of your “buddies” here.)

P.S.

I would imagine that there are a lot of things that you “never heard” of before.

Post 50, 51:

TK,

Is that the way you talk to a Lady? One who has become interested in this corrupt political presidency.

As I have said, you have a lot of class, it is a shame it is all low.

Obama is losing his base, and tries to blame it on Republicans…Biden “We misjudged the state of the economy…” yet once Obama put in what he called a fix for the economy, and said unemployment would not go above 8%, (now at 9.6% and rising) he blamed Bush once again. It’s been almost seven months, and spent trillions and still will not accept the economy getting much worse under his rule.

And tk, you have not disappointed me yet, when I tell people who disagree with you, regardless of the truth being thrown at you, you still just attack.

It would appear that you have no heart of convictions, nor a conscious.

Post 60:

You get back what you put out there, plain and simple.

And yes, I am not familiar with Homosexual things, obviously someone is…

Re: Post 61;

1.) “…Is that the way you talk to a Lady?…”

What’s “Lady” got to do with it?  I was talking about a completely ridiculous statement the poster (regardless of sex) made.

2.) “Convictions”?

Certainly.  Strong ones.  They’re just not the same ones as yours.  (And – if you don’t know what they are by now – you’re slow.)

2.) “Conscious”?

Yes.

(And, so far, Thank Goodness, my “heart” seems to be working fine!  Thank you for asking!)

P.S.

And – I do believe Obama is losing ground because he’s insisting on dealing with far too many issues at one time – and the general public cannot absorb and process all the goings on – and, of course, the disinformation-blast by the GOPs is contributing to that chaos and confusion.

I believe he should have stuck just to “the economy” for the rest of this year.

His strategy will definitely cost him his “public option” in the health care reform plan – and after probable failure of getting the type of health care reform he had hoped for (he’ll probably get a much “lesser” passed – not much more than an expansion of Medicaid) – his crew will probably realize that the Cap and Trade idea will have to go on a back burner.

He should have stuck to loan modification – stopping residential value decline – the auto companies – Sotomayor – and jobs, jobs, jobs (like CCC and WPA) for this year.

Wesley (post #32) “I see those bills (especially since Clinton rushed into this [NAFTA], as poorly put together, no oversight, no balanced trade restrictions, no restrictions on companies moving out of the USA.”

Actually, the Republicans complicity in this disastrous ‘agreement’ of government-managed trade ran deep. In fact, it was H.W. Bush who spear-headed the effort in 1991 along with the Canadian Prime Minister and Mexican President and attempted to fast-track it from it’s negotiation phase to him signing it before his term expired.
After Clinton picked up from where Bush left off, there was a frenzy by the center-right Republican structure, right-wing talk radio, the Clinton administration and MSM into getting it passed. The Wall Street Journal, National Review, CATO Institute, and pundits such as Tony Snow and Robert Novak pushed for NAFTA. Dissenters such as Pat Buchanan and Ross Perot where smeared as simple-minded protectionists or isolationists by the neocon[artists].
And as it turned out, 132 House Republicans voted for it as opposed to 102 House Democrats voting for it.
As far as voting against NAFTA – Only 43 Republicans voted against it, while 156 Democrats voted against it.

<<<“I have always been against NAFTA and CAFTA, but I do not see it as an issue that can just be deleted without consequences, especially with China.”>>>

I agree.
The only solution, which both party’s would fiercely resist, would be to return to an international gold standard to prevent governments from micromanaging international trading through the current fiat monetary system, which allows for actions such as export subsidies for politically-favored industries at the expense of the taxpayers, foreign aid, international loan guarantees, etc. From there, it would be easier to get out of NAFTA, GATT, WTO, IMF, Export-Import Bank, and World Bank so as to cut out all government interference in international trade with its excessive regulations and expensive bloated international bureaucracies who we are relinquishing our sovereignty.
There is nothing ‘free’ about the North American Free Trade Agreement. It is a form of mercantilism in disguise.
The fact that both party’s got us into debacles such as NAFTA is the reason I vote third party now.

As far as Devvy Kidd being a Libertarian – She’s a self-proclaimed Constitutionalist.

Re: Post 62;

What the heck are you talking about?

TK …Post #63 ” And I do believe that Obama is losing ground because his insistancy on dealing with far too many issues at one time -and the general public cannot absorb.” 

Are you kidding me ?  He is losing ground because of his insistancy to be in a HUGE rush to take over and to totally control this country ! He is continuing to destroy the economy, and to turn this country into a Nanny State, and to destroy our Health Care system, and to control small businesses, and too many other things to list here. AND THAT is why he is losing ground; not to mention that no one in congress has the time to read any bills that he is in such a hurry to rush through !  And his spineless lap dogs are losing ground, as well !  And you think that people are not able to absorb all of that ?  Talk about insults to the American people !  We are not stupid out here !  You and Chris Matthews take the cake !  I heard Chris Matthews on CNN tonight feeding that exact same exact crap sandwich which you just posted here to everyone across America !  I was joking a little bit when I suggested that you go back to watching Chris Matthews the other day in one of my posts, but I now realize just how right I was ! 

“And process all the goings on-and of course, the disinformation -blast by the GOP’s is contributing to that chaos and confusion.”

Trust me on this …IF BO was doing the job that he should be doing and hiring the right people who understood how to turn the economy around , things would be better by now. And there would be nothing that the GOP’s could say to confuse anyone, if he was doing a good job!  You have to remember that many Republicans and Independents voted for him and they BELIEVED his lies, and they have given him ample time to show his stuff, and he has failed ! And people are worried and scared , and no one is to blame for that excect BO , himself ! The man child is a community organizer and a good speaker (with the help of a teleprompter ), and people are waking up and realizing now that is ALL that he is really capable of doing very well. 

“I believe that he should have stuck to the economy for the rest of the year.”

THAT is ALL that he has been doing from the time that he took office, besides flying all over the world apologizing for American and kissing the hands and feet of and bowing down to rulers of countries who do not like America much. He has been working very hard on destroying the economy every which way that he can, and one of those ways is to destroy our health care system. There are more constructive ways to reform Health Care, but he wants us to feel helpless like people in Canada !  And that is is main goal ! Get you head out of the green kool aide pitcher !   

“His strategy will definitley cost him his public option in the health care reform plan -and after probable failure of getting the type of health care reform that HE had hoped for (he’ll probably get a much lessor passed -not much more than an expansion of medicade) -his crew will probably realize that the Cap and Trade idea will have to go on a back burner. “

Well, hopefully, his sneaky strategies will cost him, and they should !  And hopefully he will not get the type of health care reform that HE had hoped for, along with San Fran Nan, and his crazy CZARS and LAP DOGS (NOT CREW!!..lol), had also hoped for !  And hopefully that Crap and Tax will sit on the back burner and totally evaporate !

Post #61…Thanks, Wes !  Still enjoying the postings, and interesting information, as time allows.

Post #64…Thanks, Neo conned.  More interesting information!

You gentlemen are awesome !!

Re: Post 66;

Go get some warm milk – or a tranquilizer – or go take a long walk in the woods – or something!

And – instead of continually posting often incoherent or incomprehensible or paranoid ramblings – why don’t you just post this folloing paragraph of yours and leave it at that???

“…He is losing ground because of his insistancy (sic) to be in a HUGE rush to take over and to totally control this country ! He is continuing to destroy the economy, and to turn this country into a Nanny State, and to destroy our Health Care system, and to control small businesses, and too many other things to list here…”

That says it all about your ideological hatred of Obama, Democrats, Liberals and anybody else that doesn’t see it your way.  If you have to post here – just keep posting that same paragraph over and over.  It’s “you”!

(You know, like addicts have to first admit their addiction before they can hope to eliminate it – you should admit you addiction to blind right-wing political extremism and see if you can return yourself to the world of intelligence, common sense and reason.)

Post #64

Neo-conned,

I agree with most of your post, however when it was first created as NAFTA, it was between the United States, Canada, and Mexico, thus the name of the acronym; North American Free Trade Agreement.

By the time Clinton got to it, it included China, and several other countries. It was under NAFTA that Clinton allowed Loral to send the Chinese Guidance Systems for their Satellite placing rockets. It is not a far leap that the very same technology is easily used as ICBM and other Targeting Guidance Systems. To this very day, no one can explain, or seems to know what became of the Case against The Loral Corp. from the Justice Department, there seems to be no record of the suit filed.

But yes, both parties were guilty of passing the program.

Back to current events…First of all, the Town Hall meetings, Democrats claim the dissent over Health Care are all organized by the RNC and absolutely no evidence what so ever. Pelosi claiming there was a Swastika signs was being paraded in these meetings. She based her claim on videos being shown on Fox and YouTube. After careful viewing of the videos, even Democrats in office are saying they never saw anything of the sort.

Without notice, town-hall meetings last night and from now on will have crowd control staffed by the SEIU and the AFL-CIO muscle. Several were charged with intimidation and using physical violence against the protesters. Just another instance of disallowing Freedom of Speech.

Many of these protesters are the same ones who put Obama and the Congress in Office, mainly Democrats and Independents, with a hand full of Republicans. By using tactics against the protesters will only serve to help Republicans in both the Mid-Term elections, and the 2012 elections.

Now we learn that the Senate may pass the Health Care bill using only a 50 member vote, rather than the required 60 member vote. The only reason behind that is to exclude the eight Blue Dog Democrats.

And speaking of the SEIU, this leads us to ACORN…

As with all Acorn’s, a tree is born as it grows it creates many branches, and a massive root system.

That is what we need to look into concerning what is really going on 1304 Elysian Fields in New Orleans in a Converted Funeral Hone which only has four offices, but 252 companies use that as their business address. We know that the sign on the building says; ACORN, Int. and SEIU Local 100.

Many of the branches on this tree lead to many companies which local investigators are unable to locate many of these businesses and their connections, many of which have been traced back to Obama, this lawsuit was filed against ACORN back in January, and has yet to move:

http://flutemandy.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/inreacorn-01072009.pdf

We know many of the branches are wide and far spread corruption from foundations such as the Tides Group (two entities), many Unions, but most importantly the connection to the Apollo Alliance.

This too is being investigated by Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, but they are running into brick walls.

This is a good site to begin learning about what is now going on:

http://libertychick.com/be-informed/posts/acorn-money-trail

Re: post #67

Thanks, Diane.

As a former Republican, I was elated during the 1994 Republican victory in the House and Senate and then subsequently disappointed by their duplicity.

Going back to Devvy Kidd again… from an article of hers “Who Is The Real Newt Gingrich”
http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd450.htm

[“Llewellyn Rockwell, President of the Ludwig von Mises Institute and publisher of The Free Market, observes that, rhetoric notwithstanding, “Newt Gingrich is a Rockefeller Republican,” a big-government `Conservative’ who talks a good line, but like Ronald Reagan will give us higher taxes, more government, and more spending. His `Contract with America’ is a fraud; it should be called a `Press Conference with America.”’ Or, perhaps, a “Contract On America.” Newt’s “Contract” with its calls for amendments to balance the budget and impose term limits, seems to imply that our original contract, the U.S. Constitution, is gravely deficient.”]

To me, nightmares such as racist Barry Obama’s (ahem) ‘presidency’ don’t occur by happenstance. There had to have been a certain amount of repudiation of the previous administration for this current calamity to have struck us.

For example – Most Americans wanted our borders closed, post 9/11 – Bush didn’t; despite the constant drumbeat from his administration of future threats of additional terrorist attacks on our soil. Add to that, the economical strain on our country that excessive illegal immigration has caused.

Most Americans are repulsed at the concept of sub-prime mortgages granted to people who are not financially qualified, which emanated from the Clinton administration strengthening the Community Reinvestment Act.
The Republican majority’s response?
They were silent on the issue during the late 1990’s and through most of G W Bush’s presidency. Add to that, Bush’s contribution to this insanity with his ridiculous “American Dream Downpayment Act” which provided government assistance to cover the downpayments and closing costs for lower-income and minority groups buying homes.

So, who really is going to save us in the 2010 and 2012 election cycles?

Re: Post 69;

Your statement:

“… By the time Clinton got to it, it included China, and several other countries. It was under NAFTA that Clinton allowed Loral to send the Chinese Guidance Systems for their Satellite placing rockets…”

And your source for this declaration is … ???

And how do your reconcile your inference that, somehow, “China” became a formal party to the “North American Free Trade Agreement” … ???

Re: Post 70;

Your statement:

“… nightmares such as racist Barry Obama’s (ahem) ‘presidency’…”

And you can justify calling the President of the United States “racist” … how???

(And, if in a post, I happened to call your neighbor, the former president, “alcoholic”, “stupid” and “draft-dodger”, especailly after he skipped out on his reserve military duty – what would you have to say about it …???)

Wes..(post #69)

I have been reading all that I am able to find about ACORN and APOLLO. The entire media should be investigating and educating Americans about these organizations.  So thanks again for those websites.

Seems that BO is back on the campaign trail. I heard that he is now trying to sell “Health INSURANCE Reform.” Guess he thinks that his Socialized health care will be easier for Americans to swallow if he sticks a different lable on the package. Perhaps he learned that from his psychology Czar ?  Does he have one of those yet ? 

I will be helping to take a large group (mob?..lol) of physcially disabled Senior citizens to a town hall meeting next week,(along with their wheel chairs), and sure hoping there will be room enough for everyone. It will be interesting to see what happens. Everyone is anxious to attend.  Hopefully it won’t be one of those meetings where the state representative winds up running out the back door when the people begin asking some tough questions.  Did you hear Harry Reid say that protestors at these meetings are trying to sabbatoge the Democratic process ?  Unbelievable !

Re: #72 <<<“And you can justify calling the President of the United States “racist” … how???”>>>

20 year attendance at a racist minister’s ‘church’.

Nomination of a racist Hispanic to the Supreme Court.

<<<“And, if in a post, I happened to call your neighbor, the former president, “alcoholic”, “stupid” and “draft-dodger”, especailly after he skipped out on his reserve military duty – what would you have to say about it …???>>>

I would have agreed with you.
Had he not been born into a politically-powerful family, I don’t think Bush would have been qualified for a government staffing position, much less president.

Re: Post 74;

Your responses:

(1.)  “… 20 year attendance at a racist minister’s ‘church’…”

So, would a Prison Warden with 20 years of service become – the same kind of person as are the criminals he guarded?

Regarding a child who lives for 20 years with a Father who is a convicted felon who did prison time – should that kid be automatically considered a future felon, too?

And yourself – did you grow up in a right-wing political environment – thereby explaining your own politics today?

(2.)  “… Nomination of a racist Hispanic to the Supreme Court…”

Have you discovered a means that allows one to determine another person’s racial preferences, biases or prejudices – or are you jumping to a conclusion, assumption or supposition based on your own preferences, biases or prejudices as to what’s in the heart and mind of the newest Supreme Court justice?

Can you review some of the posters here and then divulge who you have also determined may be racists among those posting on this forum?
__________________

Personally, I don’t care for Rev. Wright or Sonia Sotomayor on a variety of levels.

And, it’s easy to perceive the typical “civil rights fire and brimstone” ranting of Wright (and his own proud “blackness”) as “racist” – as well as – Sotomayor’s own visible “ethnicity”, “32 famous words” and concurrence with the majority decision in the New Haven firefighters’ case.

BUT – if one sticks with that superficial level of observation and analysis – then I believe that same standard would also ascertain that “extremist Republicans” and “extremist Democrats” – and maybe even lifelong Irish dancers or members of the local Italian-American Club – were also “racist”. (???)

In my opinion, the two reasons you give for calling Obama a “racist” probably say more about your own preferences, biases and prejudices than it does about his.  I can also admit that my own predispositions about Wright and Sotomayor are probably in that same category – rather than being some objective and definitive analysis of them.

I believe Obama is no more a racist than you or I am – and – given his personal history – he’s most likely less so than you or I am.

(Beginning during our undergraduate years, one of my best friends over a several year period was the grandson of an active Mafia Don (and son of a Father also very active in the endeavor) – does that then automatically make me a “supporter of” or “participant in” “organized crime”?)

P.S.

I heartily agree with your last sentence.  (Note: his Grandfather was a senator from Connecticut – a member of the Yale Corporation – a board member of CBS – and a Wall Street bigwig.)

tk….(Post #75) Sounds to me that perhaps (just maybe ) you could very well be a supporter of organized crime. After all, you defend what is happening inside our govt right regarding what the selected officials are doing to this country; with their Chicago style of operated govt (the Czars), etc.  And by the way,  didn’t your mother ever teach you that you are known by the kind of company that you keep ?

Re: Post 76;

Your statement:

“… After all, you defend what is happening inside our govt right regarding what the selected officials are doing to this country; with their Chicago style of operated govt (the Czars), etc. …”

You want to translate this for those of us who are not from your planet?

Your statement:

“…And by the way, didn’t your mother ever teach you that you are known by the kind of company that you keep?…”

Hey, and just what do you think she would say if she ever knew I was writing a note to you???

Re: #75

<<<“So, would a Prison Warden with 20 years of service become – the same kind of person as are the criminals he guarded?”>>>

Only if the prison warden chooses to become a criminal; just as Obama chose to attend Wright’s church.

<<<“Regarding a child who lives for 20 years with a Father who is a convicted felon who did prison time – should that kid be automatically considered a future felon, too?”>>>

There’s a big difference between a child being involuntarily reared by a convicted felon and a grown man voluntarily attending a racist church.

<<<“Have you discovered a means that allows one to determine another person’s racial preferences, biases or prejudices – or are you jumping to a conclusion, assumption or supposition based on your own preferences, biases or prejudices as to what’s in the heart and mind of the newest Supreme Court justice?”>>>

I go by what the woman said. (Wise Latina comment)
That is how I made my determination.
If a white (right-wing) nominee said the same, (Wise Caucasian), that nominee would be history after the Democrats and media popped their collective blood vessels in their moral outrage over such bigotry.

<<<“Can you review some of the posters here and then divulge who you have also determined may be racists among those posting on this forum?”>>>

Can’t say I ever witnessed any racism on this venerable site. All criticisms of Democrats that I’ve witnessed here seems to come from a political or legal viewpoint. I included ‘legal’ here as a reference to Obama’s highly questionable constitutional eligibility to be president.

<<<“BUT – if one sticks with that superficial level of observation and analysis – then I believe that same standard would also ascertain that “extremist Republicans” and “extremist Democrats” – and maybe even lifelong Irish dancers or members of the local Italian-American Club – were also “racist”. (???)”>>>

The difference between someone like Sotomayor and the examples you gave above, is that Sotomayor made her racist statement in public, which exposed her, and thereby, disqualifies her from being a judge on any court. It also showed that she has no emotional self control.
Also, ‘extremist Republicans’ and ‘extremist Democrats’ aren’t, by default, ‘racists’, unless they publicly make racist statements such as Sotomayor did. I would assume that ‘status quo’ Republicans in the GOP view Ron Paul as an ‘extremist Republican’, and he’s certainly no racist.

<<<“In my opinion, the two reasons you give for calling Obama a “racist” probably say more about your own preferences, biases and prejudices than it does about his.”>>>

If by ‘preferences’, you mean ‘politics’, then you are wrong. If a President Ron Paul nominated someone who made racist statements, I’d say “dump the nominee” and I would be scratching my head over Paul’s morality if he refused to withdraw the nominee. If Paul himself was affiliated with any racist organizations while running for office, I’d disassociate myself from him in a flash no matter how appealing I find his political agenda to be.

<<<“Beginning during our undergraduate years, one of my best friends over a several year period was the grandson of an active Mafia Don (and son of a Father also very active in the endeavor) – does that then automatically make me a “supporter of” or “participant in” “organized crime”?”>>>

No, it doesn’t make you a supporter/participant of organized crime; just as long as you didn’t condone, profit, or otherwise participate in the Mafia activities of your friend’s grandfather.

On the other hand, Obama DID participate and condone the hate that his minister preached by attending his church services all those years with his wife and tragically, his children.

I am running out of time to go to my Son’s Wedding, so I will not be back in town until Sunday evening, and do not have time to reply at this moment, I will when I return. We are leaving in 30 minutes…If the wife is ready by then, LOL.

If I have time, which I doubt, I may log-on during my trip, for now I need to give myself an injection of Procrit, already received my blood transfusions.

Neo-conned, you have made some very good points.

Re; #79

I appreciate that Wes.

The only rationalization that I can come up with concerning TK’s contorted logic in trying to justify racism among certain segments of the Black and Hispanic population, is either ‘unfounded White guilt’ (assuming TK is White), or for political reasons.
If TK is Black or Hispanic, then it would seem that he carries the same perpetual ‘chip on his shoulder’ that the usurper and Sotomayor does in his ‘defense of the indefensible’.

(Post #78) Neo-conned…

I also think you made some excellent points.

I was also thinking about Obama’s early years, as he was growing up and about how Frank Marshall Davis was his friend and mentor, and also a friend of his father’s.  Obama spent time talking with him and reading his poetry , and he listened to Davis talk about how he hated America, as well as to his racist remarks. And of course Frank Marshall Davis was a Marxist/ Communist.  Frank Marshall Davis was also a pedifile and had been arrested and jailed twice for that. (Hopefully he did not approach young Obama in that way).  Anyway, after Obama was old enough to leave his early influences, what did he do but to pick up with the familiar kinds of teachings and people as Frank Davis …those who expressed hatred for the United States, such as Saul Alinsky, Bill Ayers, Rev Wright.  This served to remind me about the phrase: , “Teach a child in the way he shall go, and he will not depart from it. ” 
And I also believe that Obama could have chosen not to hang around with those radical influences. And might have succeeded had he been attending a REAL Christian church.  By the way, he mentioned recently that he has not been able to find a church in DC to take his family to that is politically correct.  So what’s with that ?

Also found the website that you shared regarding Newt Gingrich very interesting. Some of those things I remembered , and some were shocking.  So glad I read that and know about that now. I saved the website for future reads. Appreciated.
I also wonder what is to come in 2010 and 2012. Do you suppose that there might be a chance that the American people will be so fed up with govt that they might possibly sweep the old politics out of Washington and replace them with Independents / Liberaterians ?  I’m for that !
I’m for smaller govt, less taxes, or abolishing the IRS completely, and for restoring and preserving our constitutional rights. Is that too much to expect? <lol>

Wes…Sounds like you were enjoying a very special and memoriable weekend !  <smile>

Thanks Diane, we had a great time at my Son’s wedding, although it was 101 F., with the wind coming off their lake, and was had outdoor air conditioning under the Garden Canopy where the service was performed. It was a very, very nice ceremony; they are now on their Honeymoon.

*Regarding what will happen in 2010 and 2012 is hard to tell with so many Latinos angry at the Republicans by voting against Sotomayor, but there is little doubt they would stay with the Democrats on most with the exception of Abortion, just as when California’s last Proposition to allow Gay weddings, it failed by 57%, most of which were Black and some Hispanics.

With all these Town Hall Meetings, with people of every persuasion are rebelling against ObamaCare, for some reason, the White House, Pelosi and her backup, Steny Hoyer, and Harry Reid. In fact the majority of protesters were Democrats, Independents, and some Republicans.

Pelosi and Reid have called anyone who opposes Universal Health Care, “Un-American”.

Upon request, the SEIU Members assault Democrats and Republicans at Town Hall Meeting, charges have been filed against five SEIU Members beating down a Black (Democrat) for expressing his dislike of the Obama Health Care Plan

SEIU Members assaulted a female reporter and assaulted and another female photo journalist filming the event for the news, calls her many vulgar names, and then hits her, she too has filed charges against the Union Member. (Florida)

The Obama White House has not Condemned the Violence regarding the SEIU and AFL-CIO at Town Hall Meetings, if fact Kathleen Sebelius made a phone call with SEIU on Wednesday last week, talking about the “Purple Army” (SEIU’s Color, and wear Purple Shirts with SEIU on the back of the shirts in large letters) encouraging members of the SEIU to keep doing what they are doing.

Pelosi/Hoyer: Town hall disruptions ‘un-American’
Is calling the protesters at your event “un-American” the best political path?
Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer think so, with their op-ed in this morning’s USA Today saying that “drowning out opposing views is simply un-American.”

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0809/PelosiHoyer_Town_hall_distruptions_unAmerican.html

One Michigan Man, Mike Sola who has a child with Cerebral Palsy, was complaining to the Democratic Congressman John Dingell. Mr. Sola was asking about Health Care for his son, which would not be covered by ObamaCare. The next night at around 1:30am, three men awoke him, when he answered the door, they told him…“See, we know where you live, so keep your mouth shut, or it would be shut for him”, and threatened his family with harm. “Mr. Sola replied to the men, to tell whoever sent them to come see him in person during the “Day”’

From an interview with Mr. Sola and his attorney.

    DEADLY DOCTORS
O ADVISERS WANT TO RATION CARE

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242009/postopinion/opedcolumnists/deadly_doctors_180941.htm

Opponents of the the Health Care Bill are being called Mob Rule, and RNC Organized, the the Proponents of Heath Care are being called “Patriotic Supporters”. Showing the people referred to in the news story, the opponents are carrying homemade signs and all have differing messages…The proponents are ALL carrying pre-printed signs, which all say the same thing. So who seems best organized to you?

Diane (re: #81)

Glad you enjoyed the Gingrich article.
In early 1995, just before his death, Austrian economist and astute political commentator, Murray Rothbard, wrote an essay about the major Republican players of that day, the neocon faction as well as the non-neocon faction.
I use the word ‘astute’ because it’s amazing to me how he SO accurately assessed the political backgrounds and REAL motivations of those such as Bill Bennett, Jack Kemp, Bob Dole, Gingrich, etc. He also shows how the neocons began to dominate the Republican party during the late 1970’s.

Rothbard, who supported Pat Buchanan in the 1992 primary, was already onto the GOP back at the time the ‘Republican Revolution’ occurred; a time when most Republican voters thought that the new majority GOP was going to ‘save’ them from the policies of the Clinton administration and big government in general.
A very worthwhile read.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch19.html

As far as the 2010 mid-term elections, I may have been too quick in telling Wesley that the Republicans would have to change their ways in order to gain a lot of seats.
I say this because Obama is replicating what Clinton did in the first two years of his first term in attempting to ram through a lot of unpopular legislation in such a short time period. This is setting the stage for a similar backlash that Clinton experienced in the 1994 mid-term elections.
Of course, such a backlash would only serve as a ‘symbolic’ reaction to Obama and won’t satisfy us ‘smaller government’ voters in the long run, unless the Republicans change their big-spending ways.
We’ll just have to wait and see.

Re: Post 78;

As I’ve said before, I often think your logic and reasoning are flawed – and that your conclusions, to use the term loosely, are often way off the mark.

I not really interested in going line-by-line with you, but here are a couple of examples:

Your statement:

(a.)  <<<“So, would a Prison Warden with 20 years of service become – the same kind of person as are the criminals he guarded?”>>>  “…Only if the prison warden chooses to become a criminal; just as Obama chose to attend Wright’s church…”

Your reasoning is wrong.  Obama choosing to “attend” Wright’s church would be similar to the Warden choosing to “work” at the prison.  The Warden choosing to become a “criminal” would most closely match up with Obama choosing to become a minister in the style of Rev. Wright.

b.)  “…There’s a big difference between a child being involuntarily reared by a convicted felon and a grown man voluntarily attending a racist church…”

What’s the difference “why” they’re there or under what circumstances they’re there.  And I did say “20 years” – so we’re not always dealing with a poor, defenseless minor in the example.

The point is – BOTH have a 20-year history of potentially being bombarded by some sort of, shall we say, “propaganda” – or “lifestyle” sermons – so, if the Father is a felon and the Reverend is a racist – and if you assume, therefore, that Obama has been turned into a racist by Wright – you’d have to also conclude that the son was just as likely to be turned into a felon by his Father.

c.)  “…Also, ‘extremist Republicans’ and ‘extremist Democrats’ aren’t, by default, ‘racists’, unless they publicly make racist statements such as Sotomayor did…”

My point wasn’t that GOPs or DEMs were “racist” in the, say, traditional “caucasian vs. black” racial or ethnic sense but, rather, in the figurative sense that an extremist DEM might “hate” a GOP simply because he/she is a GOP – and the extremist GOP could, in turn, be a figurative “racist” against all DEMs simply because they were DEMs.

Extreme bias, prejudice and discrimination (all resembling “racism” in the traditional sense) can exist between and among peole based on any number of personal characteristics.

My point here is that individuals on the extreme fringe of BOTH major political parties can rise up to the level of traditional and vehement and potentially violent “racism” based simply on the fact one side despises the other simply because the other side IS the “other” side – just as those who are of one race or ethnicity might hate those of any another race or ethnicity.
_____________________

There’s still plenty of racism in this country – and there are plenty of people who are still unaccepting of the idea that “a black man” is president – and I’m certain there would have been those would would have been “unaccepting” if “a woman” had been elected – and there certainly are those political extremists who will find any and all reasons (however specious or outlandish) to “hate” the other side – especially if the other side happens to be in power – and even worse if the titular head of the other side doesn’t fit the “correct” image.

For me, there’s no conclusive evidence that either Sotomayor or Obama ARE overt racists in practice – although Sotomayor’s “famous 32 words” and Obama’s attendance at Wright’s church can raise a suspicion in those who have a prediliction to suspicion.

Personally, I don’t care for the choice of Sotomayor for the Supreme Court – nor did I vote for Obama – but EVERYBODY, to varying degrees, is probably ethnocentric and has their own personal preferences, biases and prejudices to one degree or another.  The issue is whether or not people actually act on and willfully discriminate on the basis of those preferences, biases and prejudices.

I don’t have any evidence that either Sotomayor or Obama have actually and willfully so-discriminated in their professional careers.

Re: Post 80;

What a nutty post.

You’re definitely becoming the local expert in certifying that 1+1=3.

TK (post #84) – re: your points a), b), and c) -

Whew!!!

Is that convoluted, gobalty-goop an example of what to expect in a Marxist re-education camp in the coming near or far future?

Oh wait, here comes the camp commandant to take over for TK –

“WHAT YOU CLAIM TO HAVE SEEN WITH YOUR OWN EYES OR HAVE HEARD WITH YOUR OWN EARS HAS BEEN ‘MISINTERPRETED’ IN YOUR UNENLIGHTENED, INFERIOR, PREJUDICED, RIGHT-WING, MIND!!
WHEN YOU LEARN TO INTERPRET WORDS AND EVENTS IN THE ‘PROPER’ MANNER, A SQUARE WILL NOT NECESSARILY BE A SQUARE – 2 PLUS 2 EQUALING 4 WILL BE A MATTER OF OPINION – FAR LEFT RACIST MINORITIES CAN NEVER BE RACIST; ONLY THE INHERENT BIGOTRY OF WHITE, RIGHT-WING NEANDERTHALS SHALL BE ADDRESSED…AND DEALT WITH!!
CLASS DISMISSED”

You said – <<<“There’s still plenty of racism in this country – and there are plenty of people who are still unaccepting of the idea that “a black man” is president – and I’m certain there would have been those would would have been “unaccepting” if “a woman” had been elected.”>>>

I can assure you, TK, with supreme confidence, and feel that I can speak for the majority of ‘right-wing’ posters here, that if a Black, a female, or a Black female, or an Hispanic female small government, low tax, Conservative candidate ran for POTUS against a lily-white liberal Democrat male, that their votes would overwhelmingly go towards the Conservative minority candidate.

It’s always about politics, and not about race or gender.

But I think you already knew that, didn’t you TK?

Re: Post 86;

Your statement:

“…Is that convoluted, gobalty (sic)-goop an example of what to expect in a Marxist re-education camp in the coming near or far future?…”

As I’ve said – nutty!

And – before you worry about “re-education” – you ought to concern yourself with getting a sound basic education, especially in those areas of your pretend-expertise.

Another of your statements:

“…It’s always about politics, and not about race or gender…”

V-E-R-Y naive.

If you don’t think “politics” and “race” in this country are almost inextricably connected – you, first, ought to do some reading on the history of politics in this country in the period following the Civil War – to see just how tightly-bound politics and race were.

Then, second, follow that up with some reading on the history of politics and race in this country during the period, say, from the beginning of Truman’s administration, through to the election of Nixon.

The genesis of the modern GOP came about in this latter period – when staunchly racist and segregationist southern Democrats – the Dixiecrats – became disenchanted with Democratic Party efforts to enforce civil rights legislation and racial integration in the south – and they consequently bolted, en masse, to the GOP – ultimately becoming the solid, southern (and ostensibly ‘conservative’) RED States that elected Nixon and are the so-called “base” of the GOP today.

So, generally, and historically-speaking, racism was certainly a big part of the genetic make-up of the post-Truman-Kennedy-Johnson GOP and, indeed, the GOP did accept and embody a good bit of bigotry among its newest members back then: white, so-called conservative, so-called religious southerners – many of whom were, to use your word, quite “Neanderthal”-like during the civil rights and integration struggles of the ‘60s – and even afterward.

And, certainly, anyone can become a “racist” – even those who had once been or are themselves the victims of racism. BUT – the history of racism in this country is that racism was clearly and predominantly engendered by so-called conservative and religious white southerners – against negros (and sometimes even moreso against those who might have been biracial). 

In fact, in my local area in the south, which was historically Dixiecrat – but became rabidly GOP some 50 years ago – the first black kid wasn’t allowed into the local high school until 1964 – and, even then, only under duress – and that was in a so-called ‘more liberal’ southern town which, much earlier, had had a black postmaster and even a black mayor!

If you don’t think there isn’t some grassroots traditional racism remaining in the south today – and among so-called ‘conservative’ and ‘religious’ right-wing white GOPs – then you’re incredibly naive and/or uninformed – or you’re just purposely blowing smoke to obscure the fact.

Politics and race have marched hand-in-hand in the U.S. for a long time.

(Note: I certainly would not make any bets based on your “supreme confidence” regarding anything!  And, if you can’t salve your apparently unmitigated fear of being sent to some American “Marxist re-education camp”, you might start thinking of moving to some other country where that particular fear might not weigh on you so significantly.)

Re: (#87) “And – before you worry about “re-education” – you ought to concern yourself with getting a sound basic education, especially in those areas of your pretend-expertise.”

I’ll do that if you give me advanced warning where you got your ‘education’. Then I’ll know which school to avoid.

<<<”“…It’s always about politics, and not about race or gender…”
V-E-R-Y naive”>>>

No, I would say very observant on my part; hence your ‘playing down’ of Obama’s and Sotomayor’s racism because of your support of their radical agendas. As I’ve said about your modus operandi – Anything for the Marxist agenda, no matter how weak and misleading a defense you must provide for the indefensible elements of the radical faction of the Democrat party. That includes your reprehensible defense of that ‘sleazebag to end all sleazebags’, Ted (the swimmer) Kennedy.

Your paranoiac supposition that racism is the motive behind any Republican white person’s legitimate criticism of any left-wing minority racist statements and/or affiliations with racist organizations, to me, is indicative of an extremist ideologue.

Your ‘historic’ perspective of race in this country which you attempt to justify your paranoia of white Republicans/Conservatives with, is another exercise in deflecting away from Obama’s and Sotomayor’s racism. One has nothing to do with the other.

Re: Post 88;

Sounds like you’ve already been happily ensconced in some ideological “re-education camp” for many, many years already!  And good luck managing your own prejudices, biases and predispositions – and enjoy your trip on that silly merry-go-round-and-round-and-round of yours.

P.S.

Looks like you’ve already done a pretty good job of “avoiding school” – so just keep on doing what your doing!  And, as always, don’t ever let the facts or logic get in the way of your pretend expertise!

Re: #89 – <<<“Looks like you’ve already done a pretty good job of “avoiding school” – so just keep on doing what your doing!”>>>

Unfortunately, I was a victim of government-run public education in my youth. Thankfully, the political edification I’ve experienced over the recent years has transformed my profile from unwitting ‘Neocon conservative’, to paleo-conservative, and finally fine-tuned into a paleo-libertarian.

Post 90:

Neo-conned, with what TK has told me, he was never able to make it to a Higher Education College. He also told me as while a Marine Reservist and afterwards, he had “Low Level Clearance to the Pentagon” <guffawing>.

TK said: “If you don’t think “politics” and “race” in this country are almost inextricably connected – you, first, ought to do some reading on the history of politics in this country in the period following the Civil War – to see just how tightly-bound politics and race were.”

TK, answer this; “What was Lincoln’s main cause of the Civil War…without looking anything up, I want to know what YOU think?”

What city were most all “Slaves” sold?

Hint, it was above the Mason Dixon Line.

You cannot compare Democrats and Republicans based on the first 100 years of history, as to what they stand for today.

Which Race shows the most Racism, and are taught to be that way by their parents?

What Party is the most Racist/Unfair in Government?

Which Race are the least protections by the Government?

The real question here is what you believe, and what the real truth is…

First of all TK, You are NOT always correct in your assumptions, as much as you ‘think’ you are. Despite your continued unfounded allegations about people who do not agree with you, there is also a tendency for you to blame others for what you had been caught at first.

YOU are the one who always changes the subject from the topic, do an AIM Search on you User ID and you will find that to be a fact in 98% of all instances.

You are the first to start Name Calling when someone does not agree with your often times misguided and incorrect assumptions/statements. Not to mention you are horrible at prognostications. You are very good at deflection, just as equally partisan as anyone I have seen or heard.

In earlier posts, you claim absolutely no Party affiliation, you said were an Independent and that you wrote in your vote for President, now all of a sudden you are a Libertarian. I several posts you make here, you come off as a hard core Republican, so which is it, really. Look deep into yourself and find out what is REALLY bothering you, somehow I think Politics is not what makes you who you are; there is something beneath all the hate you espouse towards others.

If you do not believe that “re-education” is happening, you are on another planet.

Every morning, Tucker Carlson…who has made the transition to Fox News, just as Lou Dobbs wishes to do, but there are no time slots at this time for a full time show for him. Tucker Carlson has been going through the new children’s text books to observe the speech police, these are just a sample of one such example of the many he has already debunked in higher education, but this goes to the heart of children as to the PC they are being indoctrinated into:

*Banned in Children’s Text books:

*Poor – Replaced with “Living in poverty” or “Living below the poverty line”
*Homeless – Replaced with “Persons without homes”
*Deaf – Already other words to describe
*Minority – Replaced with “Historically underrepresented group”
*Teenager – Replaced with “Adolescents”
*Able-bodied – Replaced with “Person who is non-disabled”
*American/Americans – Replaced with “People/Persons of the United States

And just one small sample, he does 5 to 10 of these per day.

Post 90, in regard to my Post 91:

“What was Lincoln’s main cause of the Civil War…without looking anything up, I want to know what YOU think?”

The single largest Slave Traders/Sellers were based in New York.

The Civil War began when the lower 13 States rightfully and constitutionally seceded from the Union with just cause. The government under Lincoln took advantage of Southerners by paying them below market prices for goods sold, and higher taxes than those in the North. Lincoln was concerned he would lose the tax revenue from the South, southerners were not respected or liked by most northerners and were taken advantage of…

The Northerners were losing support for the Civil War, base on secession, so Lincoln made it all about Race. But before he could make the claim, he had to get rid of his hoard of slaves, as did all politicians, and the rich…yes sir, there was racism and Slave Owners in the North.

The other reason was when the 13 states seceded; the Northern President lost cheap crops, also tax revenues. Lincoln told them they could keep their Slaves if they would re-join the Union. The fact is, most Black people were treated so well, when offered freedom, they did not want it, there was nothing out there for them to do for a living, plus many had become attached to a nice place to stay, at least three meals per day, most were treated at the owners doctors for free. When those who the Southerners who voluntarily released before the war, found they could not find jobs in the North, where they lived in more poverty, and most wanted to go back to where they were treated well, and earned their place for free living, food, Black women had attachments to the owners (if that is what you wish to call them), were taken very good care of, they were even allowed to build and attend their own churches, with pastors they wanted and chose them by votes. Southern Blacks were helped by their ex-owners when freed and given their own land to build communities. Many of which are still around to this day.

As for the KKK, in the beginning the quotient was about 50/50 southern and northern members. There were racists on both sides.

Blacks who wanted to stay in the South, fought alongside white men. In the North, the Blacks were forced into all Black battalions, they were never helped when in trouble, they were never recognized by the United States…As opposed to white battalions, and the Blacks had their mandatory uniforms taken from their pay, which was already less than what the white soldiers were making. Even after the war, they could not get jobs in the North, many moved back to the South to get farm jobs; at least they had some income, where they were paid a fair wage.

I am not saying there were not Racists in the South, but there were also Racists in the North. Not that either were right in taking that position, but real Racism appeared rampant in the South in more modern times.

Who is the only person in Government who held Office was a former KKK Grand Master?

Democrat – Robert Byrd.

The President assures everyone that AARP is on board with his proposed Universal Health Care Plan, however, Tom Nelson (COO) and the CEO have come on the air to say emphatically, that they want noting to do with ObamaCare, so who is lying?

AARP note released yesterday afternoon quoted as saying;

“Indications that we have endorsed any of the major Health Care reform Bills currently under consideration in Congress are factually inaccurate.”

We all know that AARP is a left leaning organization who contributes to Democrats, yet supports Senior Citizens, which will fall by the wayside if Obama’s plan (which he admits to have never read as of Monday). We have no way of knowing the truth on this one.

While pushing his Health Care Plan, Obama re-quoted the phrase, “Judge a man by the company he keeps”. Bad choice of words for this president…but if one were to take a detailed view of who is around him on this plan, you need to look to the roots of the Health Care plan, beginning with the Czars TK thought was a stupid thing to argue about, now they are making policy without the supervision of the House. Anyone who works closely with the President, must be vetted and approved by Congress. Especially if one were to look into the background of these Czars, and see what you find.

In addition to the current 45 Czars, the President has made room for 7 more, which will be:

1. Income Redistribution Czar: Not appointed yet.
2. Consumer Financial Protection Czar, aka Mortgage Czar: Not appointed yet
3. Land-Use Czar: Not appointed yet.
4. Radio-Internet Fairness Czar: Not appointed yet.
5. Student Loan Czar: Not appointed yet.
6. Voter List Czar: Not appointed yet.
7. Zoning Czar: Not appointed yet.

The Czars are listed here along with their actual titles and job descriptions:

http://noisyroom.net/blog/2009/07/22/obamas-czars-listing-update-072209

New soaring National Deficit defies forecasts. It seems as though Obama has been constantly borrowing money from other countries and not reporting who or how much, however today we learned of $75 Billion Loan.
——————
More Children’s Text book changes from Tucker Carlson this morning:

In Christian teachings in public schools where allowed;

*Adam and Eve has been replaced with “Eve and Adam, and it was Adam who force Eve to take a bite of the Apple”
*Grandfather Clause – Replaced with “Retroactive Coverage”
*Sportsmanship was taken out due to the word “man” – Replaced with “Sporting Conduct”
*Elderly and Senior Citizens – Replaced with “Older Persons”
*Jungle – Replaced with “Rain Forrest” or “Savannah”

Re: Post 91;

Your statement:

“…Neo-conned, with what TK has told me, he was never able to make it to a Higher Education College. He also told me as while a Marine Reservist and afterwards, he had “Low Level Clearance to the Pentagon” <guffawing>…”

Just another of the LIES and MISREPRESENTATIONS you continually post in this forum.

(I’ve told you about my higher education more than once in posts on this forum – and more than once you’ve insisted on the Marine thing – which is another falsehood which you persist in repeating.  Apparently, you’re just an inveterate liar.)

Re: Post 90;

You know, based on the philosophical meanderings you post, seemingly often taken from Rockwell, Rothbard and Von Mises – you really seem to be nothing more than a garden-variety ANARCHIST or, giving you the benefit of the doubt and in the most moderate of senses that might apply to you, you would seem to be a CLASSICAL philosophical LIBERAL in the Thoreau mode. (???)

Frankly, in my own “practical” opinion, “Anarchists” are no better than “Communists” and BOTH are on the RADICAL, extreme “LEFT” on the political spectrum.  Furthermore, from my own “pragmatic”, real-world perspective, your political “paleo-conservative” or “paleo-libertarian” persuasion is about as practically realistic as is the concept of all of us finding “heaven on earth”.

And it’s far from me to be able to understand how someone chasing after an anarchist-style philosophy of government and a classically liberal economic system would “defend” today’s REPUBLICANS. (???)

In any event, “book smartness” in “theoretical” and/or “philosophical” concepts of the type you profess doesn’t seem to be very relevant to the real-world politics of the day (nor to the pro and con discussion thereof).

I’m more interested in practical and pragmatic solutions to the political problems of a nation with an increasingly diverse population of 305 million which may no longer be in possession of an economy that can effectively support the rapidly increasing population.  (I am very “conservative” in terms of holding traditional social and cultural values – but today’s “real” problems in this country are wholly involved in the realms of economics and politics – NOT social and cultural values.)

And, of course, history also clearly shows that although you may be an ANTI-government believer in “individuality” with every one off and “doing their own self-expressive thing” in the Thoreau and/or Any Rand mode – the reality is that mankind has exhibited no widespread nor lasting ability to live without some form of social or political organization that directly provides for some modicum of order, stability and predictability.

In the end, if I’m a pragmatist and you’re a theorist, then we probably have nothing to talk about.

Re: Post 92;

A simple listing of the more ludicrous of your statement in your Post 92:

+ “…The single largest Slave Traders/Sellers were based in New York…”

+ “…The Civil War began when the lower 13 States rightfully and constitutionally seceded from the Union with just cause…”

+ “…The fact is, most Black people were treated so well, when offered freedom, they did not want it, there was nothing out there for them to do for a living, plus many had become attached to a nice place to stay, at least three meals per day, most were treated at the owners doctors for free…”

+  “…We all know that AARP is a left leaning organization who contributes to Democrats, yet supports Senior Citizens, which will fall by the wayside if Obama’s plan (which he admits to have never read as of Monday)…”

(Note: AARP is essentially an insurance marketing organization that is, obviously and consequently, tied in to Big Insurance and, therefore, to Big Business.)

+ “…While pushing his Health Care Plan, Obama re-quoted the phrase, “Judge a man by the company he keeps”…”

(Note: Would you care to footnote this quote and provide substantive, first-hand evidence of your veracity here?)

+ “…the Czars … now they are making policy without the supervision of the House…”

(Note: As though YOU or any other GOPs would give any credibility to “supervision by the House”!)
________________________

Your increasingly bizarre fabrications and fantasies are making it more and more useless for ANYONE to believe in a single thing you post – or to waste their time attempting to responsibly respond to you or your hallucinatory posts.

P.S.

You sure have one warped view of the factualities of the Civil War and slavery – and, apparently, the origins and existence of racism in this country.  But then, again, judging by your posts, you have warped views on a lot of things!

Your Posts 91 and 92 have transcended “simply outlandish” and have fallen into the “purely disgusting” category.

TK, if you think so, then prove what I have written is false by using unmitigating substantiated facts, of which you have yet to accomplish.

I thought so, if you were truly a Libertarian, you would not object to facts and opinions.

As a Libertarian, are you in favor of the Liberals telling you what you can or cannot say or do? I only ask due to the fact that is exactly where we are at, right at this moment. Do you really believe the Elitists President, Speaker, Steny Hoyer, Harry Reid, just to name a few are honest people who are telling us the truth?

With polls released regarding the Health Care proposal is now:

Disapprove: 54%
Approve:  41%
Not sure:  5%

Fix the freaking Health Care we have, instate Tort Reform, give insurance to those who do not have it, and don’t give it to illegal aliens. Force Insurance companies to cover those with Pre-Existing conditions…it would be a third of what Obama wants to spend just this year alone, his way is over each year.

Hell, even France does not do that for illegals! We have Rules and Laws regarding immigration, yet the liberals do not like those rules, so they ignore them, try that the next time you get in your car and break the law.

There is more Terror chatter right now than there ever has been in this country, they smell the weakness in Government.

And if you do not believe AARP leans to the left, just take a look at the Campaign Donors Lists for as far back as you wish.

There was an investigation regarding Campaign Fraud regarding over $10 Million dollars being dispersed via the Internet to Obama. The inconsistencies were that it was one donor sending checks to people to donate, the FBI actually has evidence to this allegation, another was maximum Internet contributions were all traced back to the same IP Address using many different email addresses, it belonged to one person who had his own website which gave him up to 500 email addresses, but each one had the same IP and all had the same server address.

So explain to me why Eric Holder had the investigation stopped? He has been doing quite a lot of that lately, such as ACORN, CCI, SEIU…ect…Stopped by Holder along with the evidence.

The Supreme Court will hear a complaint as to Obama’s Czars are legal or not, it is not unusual to have one or two, but those past Presidents went through Congressional Approval, the back grounds on many of the current Czars have criminal records, and who the hell needs 52 Czars with more to come.

I have yet to hear you criticize or dispute the MSM, so that must be your main source, or those Communist sites such as the KOS, MeidaMatters and their brotherhood. I would trust the Mob over those sites.

Instead of believing what you read and hear from the MSM, try to broaden your horizons and seek the truth, you many just may be enlightened.

Re: Post 92;

Your Post 92 sounds like some redneck southerner’s one-sided and weak-minded rationale for justifying the Civil War combined with ridiculous excuse-making for slavery and the racism that followed it.  It does not deserve any other detailed response from me.  And, if that’s the kind of garbage you really believe – then there’s no point in anyone wasting their time trying to correct the fallacies you hold dear.  You’re apparently an anti-Obama-ite; an anti-Democrat; an anti-Liberal; and, I would have to guess, an anti-northerner – in all things.

And for me:

I am NOT a Libertarian; I am NOT a Republican; I am NOT a Democrat; I am NOT a partisan of any single political philosophy – and despite your assessments – neither am I a Liberal or a Conservative.  I have told you: I am a Traditionalist Independent – and I do most certainly agree with various INDIVIDUAL Libertarian, Republican, Democratic, Liberal AND Conservative precepts; I am pretty much socially and culturally conservative; and, I am a realist and, most often, a pragmatist in many things political.  Plainly, I am non-ideological in the typical political sense.

Beyond that – I am opposed to extremism (in all things – but in this case, especially in retail politics) – and I am opposed to those who, lemming-like, march to the beat of some blind ideology – and those who use pure propaganda techniques to obscure, obstruct and obfuscate to justify their ideology – and those who purposely mislead, misinform and fabricate in an attempt to promote their ideology at the expense of another.

Re: #94 – <<<“Frankly, in my own “practical” opinion, “Anarchists” are no better than “Communists” and BOTH are on the RADICAL, extreme “LEFT” on the political spectrum.  Furthermore, from my own “pragmatic”, real-world perspective, your political “paleo-conservative” or “paleo-libertarian” persuasion is about as practically realistic as is the concept of all of us finding “heaven on earth”.”>>>

Anarcho-libertarianism, anarcho-communism, and anarcho-collectivism, would be a closer match to your above statement concerning the belief in anarchy.

Paleo-libertarianism advocates a very limited role for government such as what the Constitution called for.

As far as being ‘realistic’, the Constitution is a very real thing in itself. Why should I support, or try to work with, the ‘jalopy’ of state capitalism with its failed fiat monetary system and Keynesian economic policies which got us into the current financial mess that we’re in?

<<<“And it’s far from me to be able to understand how someone chasing after an anarchist-style philosophy of government and a classically liberal economic system would “defend” today’s REPUBLICANS. (???)”>>>

My ‘defense of today’s Republicans’ was limited to defending them against your racist smears against them when they legitimately criticize Obama and Sotomayor.

#97:

TK, you failed to address my post #96, you had already addressed my post #92…Is it because I am correct…again.

But for the record, I got the civil war information from a native New Yorker Author who has spent most of his life studying the subject.

He also found documents where Sherman was to be executed for what he did to non War citizens, such as burning down Savannah or anyone in his path to the coast, and killing women and children. Also for allowing Southern soldiers amnesty, after giving the volunteers who took advantage of his offer, as soon as they laid their rifles down, all 38 eight of them were executed. Nice fellow, huh?

As for the afore mentioned (in another thread) new poll numbers on Obama’s overall:

Approval:  47%
Disapproval: 52%

Can be found half way down the page at:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Re: Post 98;

a.) “…Anarcho-libertarianism, anarcho-communism, and anarcho-collectivism, would be a closer match to your above statement concerning the belief in anarchy…”

My point is: it doesn’t matter what “fringe” one is out on.  Extreme political philosophies of all persuasions are deleterious to effective governance in this country – and any “utopian” elements therein are nothing but pipe dreams.

b.) “…Paleo-libertarianism advocates a very limited role for government such as what the Constitution called for…”

Most reasonable people understand that the U.S. Constitution, as are most such documents, is open to interpretation – that there may be as many interpretations as there are interpreters – and that the range of those interpretations can run from those that might be called “strict” to those that might be called “broad”. 

c.) “…My ‘defense of today’s Republicans’ was limited to defending them against your racist smears against them when they legitimately criticize Obama and Sotomayor…”

Historically, the most racist people in this country have lived in the states that are today often called the “Red” states, which include the slave states of the Old South.  Whereas those people, historically, might have once preferred to align themselves with the Democratic Party as “Dixiecrats” – they switched en masse to the Republican Party during the so-called civil rights and integration era of the 1960s.  At that time, then, the white racism against blacks that did exist was, in fact, existent mostly among southern whites – who were typically politically aligned with the Republican Party at that time – and who, in turn, were very inimical to the Democratic Party because of its role in ending segregation. 

Consequently, there’s DEFINITELY a history of racism in the modern GOP – and as someone who has lived in a once “confederate” and now VERY “Red” state for many years – EVERY racist I’ve ever known, including neighbors, business associates and casual acquaintances – UP UNITL RIGHT NOW – has been a staunch Republican!  So, if you want to deny the most recent political history of racism in this country, go ahead.

Further, though, and without any doubt, there is DEFINITELY some amount of racism at play among those who are vehemently and virulently anti-Obama – and, at least in my experience, in my area of my southern state, many of those who are particularly vitriolic and hateful in that regard ARE very partisan Republicans.

So, if you insist on accusing ME of “racist smears” because YOU don’t accept the existence and history of racism in this country, go ahead.

(And, of course, on the other side of that coin, would you excuse the rabblerouser-for-money, Limbaugh, for his repeated references to Obama as “a racist who hates white people”?)

And, again, it would have to be either pure partisanship or abject refusal to acknowledge reality for you to insist there is ABSOLUTELY no racism at play among the vitriolic and venomous criticisms of Sotomayor.

It would seem obvious that the great majority of those who are critical of Obama and Sotomayor are NOT racists;  but it is equally obvious that among those who are most vehemently opposed to each (especially among those whose criticisms are clearly specious), there is every likelihood that old-style racism is a factor (e.g., see contemporary “white supremicist groups”, etc.). 

Not “everybody” who criticizes Obama (or anyone else, for that matter) has a “legitimate” reason.