Hopefully, The Obamacare Titanic will completely sink at the dock before it sets sail, and before it forces us ALL on board to go down with that ship full of holes !  The White House can pin up all the pretty posters for that trip that they want to, but I just don’t trust the Captain or his crew !  Govt operated health care would be an absolute nightmare !  And talk about the “ship hitting the sand” !

I know I’m going to get booted out sooner or later, if I don’t leave on my own.

But pray tell, what does this blog entry have to do with the mission of AIM.

Mission Statement

Accuracy In Media is a non-profit, grassroots citizens watchdog of the news media that critiques botched and bungled news stories and sets the record straight on important issues that have received slanted coverage.

—————————-
I’m serious.  Where is the pointing that there’s something wrong that needs correcting.

Seems to me the new web site got it right.  Palin said death panels.  Isakson said the idea that this was death panels was nuts. And the Republican senator’s statement is accurate. 

So perhaps you’ve seen the light and are moving away from the dark force?????

Thank goodness AIM is available to enlighten voters about the botched and bunlged news efforts of a desperate Obama!!!!

Partisan Republicans will NEVER look at ANY information provided by Democrats – and partisan Democrats pretty much already know about what the proposed legislation includes and probably don’t need the information provided on the website.

It’s probably only useful to open-minded Independents or non-partisans who might be trying to actually learn something about the issue.

And, of course, hardly anyone is going to actually read the four different House versions of the proposed legislation or the first Senate version.

Political polarization and special interests have taken over government in this country.

Americans will just be health care commodities if Obamacare passes.

I believe what Sarah Palin really meant by “death-panels” was that the doctor/patient relationship in health care decisions will no longer exist if this legislation passes. Health care decisions will be between government health-care bureacrats and doctors, and out of the hands of patients.

Government-run health care would have to be rationed (like it is in Canada and the U.K.) and healthcare decisions will be based on costs.  Bureaucrats will use government-instituted guidelines called “comparative effectiveness” in order to determine how to treat patients on the cheap, instead of trying to save or prolong their lives.

The stimulus package, passed in February, allocated over a billion dollars for comparative effectiveness research.

Re: Post 5;

Your statement:

“…Government-run health care would have to be rationed (like it is in Canada and the U.K.) and healthcare decisions will be based on costs…”

The reality is that health care IS BEING RATIONED by the private business insurance companies right now!

If these private companies determine you have a pre-existing condition – you can’t get insurance. 

If you made any claims last year – your insurance may be dropped this year.

Depending on policy terms and costs – there are annual and lifetime caps on dollar-values of coverage; variable maximum coverages are applied to various conditions; they may decide NOT to pay for certain tests or services on the basis of cost or their opinion of efficacy; they’ll change deductibles, co-pays and coverages at will; they can change premium pricing at will to discourage aging or older insureds from continuing – AND – one can even be denied coverage based on one’s credit report and credit score.

So – THERE’S PLENTY OF “RATIONING” going on already!

(Often, however, those whose health insurance is paid for by their employers have NO CLUE about the health care and health care insurance problems being faced by the self-employed, those working as 1099 contractors, those who have lost their insurance for whatever reason and those working for small businesses that do not provide health insurance.)

P.S. -

And – keep in mind:  About 60% of all health care services in the U.S. are ALREADY BEING PROVIDED THROUGH GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS: MediCare, MedicAid, Veterans Administration Health Care System; TRICARE Military Family Health Care System; the S-CHIP National Health Care Program for Children; the Federal Government Employees Health Care System; AND various state, county and local government employees and/or citizens programs.

Additionally, our Medicare system is modeled directly on the Canadian system; Germany’s health care system gave us the idea of financing private health care insurance via payroll deductions; the English system gave us the idea of financing government health care insurance via taxes; and, of course, in the poorest of nations, such as Cambodia, PEOPLE HAVE TO PAY DIRECTLY out of their pocket, i.e., no money-no care.

Right now, the United Nations ranks the U.S. health care system 37th based on a broad range of measurements.  And, in 1996, Switzerland created what is generally considered today to be the best example of a national health care system – as are the systems existing in Japan and Taiwan.

Check out how the Swiss system works – noting that EVERYONE is fully covered and it costs Switzerland somewhat less than 11% of its annual gross domestic product – its private insurance companies are more profitable than ever – and the service and care is of the highest caliber and quality available anywhere.

TK,

Some of us here have asked you many times, What country are you a citizen of?”. For some reason you have never let us know.

This means that anything you state has no validity.

BB

Re: Post #7

Boston Beaner 49,

I would also like to know the answer to that question, but I doubt that tk knows for sure either, since he constantly contradicts himself and he has probably long forgotten.   
A few weeks ago on another AIM blog, tk argued that France had the very best health care system in the world;  and now he says that Switzerland does!  I can’t hardly wait to see what country will have the best health care system in the world by this time next month!
Tk ….We would like to see your birth certificate !  <lol>

It is about time they attack the right with all the lies and divisive content they have been providing. They will have no chance to say they did not read the truth about the healthcare reform bill.

TK is correct in that 60% of the health care delivery system is already being controlled by the US government and we can all see how well these programs are doing. It’s specifically because of government interference that Americn health care costs are so high.

Many doctors refuse to take Medicare or Medicaid patients because the reimbursements are so low. Doctors “offset” the losses they take on Medicare/Medicaid/SCHIP patients by charging more to patients covered by private insurers through “cost-shifting.”

Jeffrey H. Anderson of the Pacific Research Institute wrote two reports showing that the costs(including administrative costs) of both Medicare and Medicaid have risen 35 and 36% more repectively than the costs of health insurance in the private sector since 1970. This contradicts the administration’s claim that Medicare and Medicaid are cheaper to administer.

See: http://liberty.pacificresearch.org/docLib/20090714_HPPv7n07_0709.pdf or http://liberty.pacificresearch.org/docLib/20090608_HPPv7n06_0609.pdf

Re: Marin ExLib
August 24 at 12:15 pm |  #10 |  Link

The two reports from the ideologically conservative Pacific Research Institute are talking about total costs.

And they’re not singling out administrative costs.  And it’s administrative costs that we’re concerned about here.
compassionate and flexible than a private player.

On administrative costs see:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/administrative-costs/

And see the references there to the CBO.

Here’s a quote from Krugman:
—-quote start—-
In international perspective, the United States spends nearly six times as much per capita on health care administration as the average for Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) nations. Nearly all of this discrepancy is due to the sales, marketing, and underwriting activities of our highly fragmented framework of private insurance, with its diverse billing and review practices.
————quote end———-

The direct administrative costs of public and private plans don’t capture all the administrative costs in the health care system.

There are the administrative costs of health care providers.  Somebody has to pay for employees in the doctor’s office who spend all day on the phone with insurance companies.

I’ve got relatives who are doctors in a publicly funded single payer system. I’ve never heard them complain about the complexity of getting bills paid. Yes, there are disagreements with the gov’t on payment.  But there’s only one set of rules to worry about.

Shel,

You get what you pay for.

Why do millions of people from othe countries come to America to get the RIGHT healthcare? You get what you pay for (directly from your bank to the provider).
  In other countries (tax rates 75% t0 95%) you get cheap healthcare and die early. This is what most people under 30 prefer till they are over 30.

Remember what Abbie Hoffman said, “Don’t trust anyone over 30”. Check it out: The Chicago Seven.

Same old activist game. Always trying to get something for nothing, at the cost of others.

Re: Post 8;

More nutcase nattering.

P.S.

France = national “public” health care system;

Switzerland = national “public-private” health care system (begun in 1996 – similar to Medicare).

Two DIFFERENT kinds of “national” health care systems.

Re: Post 9;

Correct!

(Over my own 13 presidential administrations thus far – I have never seen the opposition party so willfully and intensely spreading such an incredible amount of misinformation, disinformation and outright falsehoods as the GOPs are doing on this issue.  This kind of all-out political polarization is a serious threat to the future effective governance of this country.)

Re: Post 10;

From the polls that I see, those USING the health care programs in question, Medicare, MedicAid, VA, TriCare, S-CHIPs and government-employees programs are, to a large majority (mostly in the 80+% range), VERY HAPPY with their access to and the services received from those programs.

That’s not to say these programs are “perfect” – nor that they are not suffering out-of-control escalating costs which may diminish their effectiveness – but the perceptions of these programs by their clients are definitely positive.

Marin ExLib
August 21 at 4:39 pm |  #5 |  Link
wrote:

[snip]
——- start marin————-
I believe what Sarah Palin really meant by “death-panels” was that the doctor/patient relationship in health care decisions will no longer exist if this legislation passes. Health care decisions will be between government health-care bureacrats and doctors, and out of the hands of patients.
——-end marin—————-
I hate to say this:  Even death panel Sarah wouldn’t agree with this. But for fun, let’s see how it would work:

Palin to Bureaucrat:  I keep having these bad headaches and I’ve got constipation.
Bureaucrat to Doctor:  She’s complaining of headaches and constipation.
Doctor to Bureaucrat, as he hands over the endoscope: The most likely explanation is that she has brains up her butt. Could you check that out?
Bureaucrat to Doctor:  Give me a couple of minutes….yup, there it is…
Doctor:  Go ahead and tell her
Bureaucrat to Palin:  You know those death panels you’ve been talking about?  This is so much nonsense that your brain has moved to the ileo-coleo region of your body.
Palin to Bureaucrat:  Huh..?
Bureacrat to Palin as he shows her a diagram of the body:  You see this…………….

——————start marin——————-
Government-run health care would have to be rationed (like it is in Canada and the U.K.) and healthcare decisions will be based on costs.  Bureaucrats will use government-instituted guidelines called “comparative effectiveness” in order to determine how to treat patients on the cheap, instead of trying to save or prolong their lives.
————— end marin——————
The term “comparative effectiveness”  originates in the US.  What’s wrong with determining which treatments work and which ones don’t work?  This has nothing to do with rationing. 

Let’s say treatment X and treatment Y cost the same. But a comparative effectiveness study shows that 50% of people getting treatment X are alive after 5 years and only 20% of those getting treatment Y.  Don’t you want people to get treatment X?

So comparative effectiveness has nothing, in and of itself, to do with rationing.  And of course, if you’d   read section 1401 of HR3200, you will see that this is true.

Another example, let’s say treatment A is a new individualized drug that costs $50,000 per patient per year and this is a somewhat real price.  Treatment B costs $2,000 each year. A comparative effectiveness study shows that 50% of people getting treatment A are alive after 5 years and only 45% of those getting treatment B.  And this is a rare but not very rare disease.  Does the insurance company pay for the treatment A drug if the policy has no cap on benefits?  If they do cover the cost, how can they stay in business without charging much higher premiums?  Can the government pay that cost?

Boston Beaner 49
August 24 at 2:14 pm |  #12 |  Link

Let’s see if we can find a pattern here.

—————beaner wrote—————————-
Why do millions of people from othe countries come to America to get the RIGHT healthcare?
——————-  end quote
Please supply reputable evidence that millions of people from othe countries come to America to get the RIGHT healthcare?

———————beaner wrote———————
You get what you pay for (directly from your bank to the provider).
———————-end -beaner wrote——————————-
Young people don’t like paying for health care in advance (direct insurance, insurance through employer or taxes) because the odds are they won’t need much. However, like everybody else, they can have very bad things happen to them very quickly.  And young people are less likely to have the money in the bank. 

———————- beaner wrote——————————————
  In other countries (tax rates 75% t0 95%)
—————————- end beaner wrote—————-
Please provide evidence that is true.  As a kindness, I’ll assume that you mean the top rate of a progressive tax system in developed countries—- you can use the OECD countries.
-———————- start beaner quote—————-
you get cheap healthcare and die early. This is what most people under 30 prefer till they are over 30.
————————— end beaner quote———————-
Please provide evidence that people get cheap health care and therefore die earlier.  A good choice of countries would be the OECD countries.

[snip]

Shel/TK,

You have ever provided any factual evidence of what you spew. You demand evidence of others but never provide any yourselves.

This is so very obvious in that your replies are always so demanding, and LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.

Remember, “It takes a thousand lies to bury the first untruth”.

What country do you type from?

As many Democrats fear that increased Republican opposition as well as Democratic infighting over the public option could spell doom for the bill’s chances once Congress returns in September, Jonathan Weisman and Naftali Bendavid report that that the White House and Democratic Senate leaders are considering splitting up the bill into two parts in order to get it passed this year.cirugia de la nariz

Cirugia,

Thank you sir. Democrats will try anything to get something passed that will aid them to overthrow the Constitution and Bill of Rights. They are the murders of Freedom.

Finally an intelligent comment!

Post #20 Boston Beaner 49

Absolutely !  You are so right !  Just look at how BO has been stomping all over the constitution ever since he was selected !  And he said that the constitution is outdated and that this country needs to be reformed !  He told everyone what he was going to do so from the very beginning. That lousy health care package is not about helping the American people.  It’s all about bigger govt , and more control over people’s personal lives; and destroying the economy even further inside this country. The Democrats want to own and operate everything. Give them an inch and they keep taking and taking and taking. They just never have enough !  Of course so many of them studied Saul Alinksy’s way of governing……The Marxist Way !

Here comes TK/shel with a long diatribe of Anti-American spew.

One thing we all know, “Diane is an American”. I certainly salute your quality of thought Diane.

TK/shel,
What country do you type from?

Re: Post 21;

Your statement:

“…Just look at how BO has been stomping all over the constitution ever since he was selected!  And he said that the constitution is outdated and that this country needs to be reformed!…”

Absolutely nutty.

Do you actually know ANYTHING that is even remotely related to the real world and political reality?

And who do you believe “selected” Obama to become President?

Are you aware that plenty of constitutional law experts are of the opinion that the greatest “stomping on the Constitution” that has EVER occurred was actually perpetrated by Bush 43 and Cheney?

Could you possibly understand that historians, down the road,  will almost certainly declare that the Bush 43 administration was one of the most incompetent ever – and that some of their corruption and some of the decisions and policies that THEY adopted are what need “reform”?

I can’t believe that any adult who attempts to stay at least reasonably and somewhat objectively informed could possible hold the opinions that you do!

Re; Post 23,

Bingo! On target! Just as predicted in post #22.

More Marxist dialog.

We the People of these United States of America do not want civil war. Here it is becomming more clear, “Civil War” is exactly what Marxists both foreign and domestic are agitproping in America. The usual gang of thugs.

Actually, we Americans just want to be left alone to live our lives in the way WE see fit.

God bless America.

BB

Tk……I think you fell down the rabbit hole too many times and inhaled too much smoke with Alice.
You live in a total state of denial.  And just how much longer are you and your wittle wiberal buddies are going to continue to blame Bush for all of the crap that “The Selected One” has been doing is any body’s guess.  You are the one who needs to wake up to reality !  Geeeeeze.  I will never understand why you liberals love bigger govt so much !  You must have always needed someone to take care of you and to tell you what to do, and had plenty of free hand outs all of your lives !  And therefore, you have never experienced REAL TRUE freedom !  You must keep voting for bigger govt because the idea of freedom scares you to death !  And so now you are taking those of us who love our independence and freedom and smaller govt over the edge with you to pay for your lousy health care, while you help “The Selected One”  tear up the constitution on the way down !  GOOD GRIEF!  You are the one who is not living in reality !!

Boston Beaner,

Thank you, Sir.  And I recognize you to be a true American, as well !

And I also like your quality of thought; as well as your sense of humor.

Re: Post 25;

The Bush-Cheney administration will be rightly blamed by historians and relevant experts for their incompetence, their failures and the damage they did to our economy for the rest of history.

No matter how bad you ASSUME the Obama administration might be – and even if it ends up being worse than the Bush-Cheney administration – that will NOT change the fact that Bush-Cheney will be ranked among the worst presidential administrations of all time.

And note – the real-ist and true-ist “freedom” in your context is “anarchy” – no constraints or rules whatsoever!  I cannot imagine how someone so fearful as you could possibly survive “anarchy”!

People on the far reactionary right who are constantly screaming for “freedom” – are nothing but insurrectionists – anti-government reactionaries – like the perpetrators of the Oklahoma City bombing.

TK/shel,

Sice you are Canadian, this is not your concern. Your country needs you to assist inn their problems. Please stop meddling in America’s business and tend to your own. Or hav you burned all your bridges in Canada too?

BB re #28.

I’ve just been channelling the late William Cooper. He tells me that he’s tracked down TK’s IP address and its 208.76.220.211.  My, my, my your deadliest enemies are often those closest to you.

To keep the record straight on my being a Canadian and not a freedom loving, Constitutional worshipping American, may I direct your attention to:

Comment #34 of http://www.aim.org/don-irvine-blog/obama-accuses-gop-of-playing-politics/

Sorry shel,

You must have the wrong chanel.

WC

Re: #28 Boston Beaner

Okee-doke, we got “it” down !  And by the way, I think I am going to request that you be to added to the pay roll !  <lol>

Re: post #31,

Diane, With the extreme low quality and falsity of thought these days of the younger masses all good Americans are answering the call. During these dire times, I volunteer my life, my time and my every thought and prayer.

BB

Re Comment #31 by Diane
plese see Comment #37 by shel
at
http://www.aim.org/don-irvine-blog/obama-accuses-gop-of-playing-politics/

#32 Boston Beaner…
I had a strong feeling that you would respond that way. You are a great American.  Best wishes for a nice weekend !     

#33 Shel..Sorry that I missed your post #37.  Was busy working elsewhere when some of those postings were being removed in that thread.  Anyway, from here on in, here is hoping for more pleasant, considerate, and respectful postings to and from everyone.  Wishing you a nice weekend, as well.

Thank you Diane.

I/we just want to be free.

BB

In exactly what ways are you NOT free now?

Independent, I believe what BB meant to say,(and I took it that way), is that >> ” We want to “REMAIN” free.

Well, then, on what specific grounds are you fearful of NOT “remaining” free?

Independent,  I believe that many people are feeling fearful about this current administration. And since this letter was written to Barrack Obama (with this list of reasons for starters),  he and his administration have given us many more reasons to be fearful.  You might also consider reading Michelle Malkin’s book entitled: Culture of Corruption. 

http://www.afa.net/youscareme.asp

RE: post #38,

independant/TK/shel, On what precise and factual basis do you “believe” (you have no facts) that Americans will remain free? I am by no means a Coward like the pansy, chicken footed, Liberal counterparts. It is very rude of you to presume me to be a Coward.

America is being destroyed by weak and reprobate individuals that hide behind the skirts of putrid liberal, windbag politicians.

Attention: Users TK/Terry K/Terry Krepel/Independent and Shel have been banned from commenting at aim.org due to repeated violations of Accuracy in Media’s online policies.  If you see new comments from these users, or other comments that are offensive, off-topic, or contain personal attacks, please email (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).  Thank you for your cooperation.

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Boston Beaner 49…

Do you think that I can safely turn in the monitor badge now ?  That was certainly a surprise assignment! <lol>   

Feeling thankful to the Aim moderator. 
Also looking forward to being able to post on the topics without all of that crazy hostility which we all endured for too long.

And once again, you are a great, as well as brave American !  And by no means …a coward !

I am certainly not a coward either,and will always stand up and fight for my constitution, and for whatever else is right and true !  But I must admit that sometimes I do feel a little fearful of losing some of our freedoms and our rights…especially our rights to our privacy under this new radical administration.  But I also pray a lot these days, which I believe helps.     

Have a nice weekend.
And Best Regards !

Diane,

In these dark and drear times we must laugh in the face of Obama/Kennedy DeathCare.

We do need to pray often.

We are Americans with a history of reforming lies and liars and holding our flag of Truth to fortoken further light in the surrounding darkness.

I have a 99 year old lady i’m taking out to breakfast this morning. She wants to live long enough to see this current darkness dispelled.

Have a grand week end!

BB