The Media Plan to Destroy Palin
AIM Column | By Cliff Kincaid | September 7, 2008
On C-SPAN, Kalb tried to suggest that Palin and the Republicans were trying to score political points by attacking the media.
I was on C-SPAN on Saturday talking about media coverage of the campaign. They double-teamed me, with “progressive” Faiz Shakir and former NBC News journalist Marvin Kalb arguing that Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin should start going on shows like NBC’s “Meet the Press” to prove she’s worthy of the nomination. I said that would be a trap and politically suicidal.
The announcement has since been made that Governor Palin will sit down with ABC’s Charles Gibson for an interview this week. Democrats will be counting on Gibson to spring a trap on the Republican vice-presidential candidate and make her look like an ignorant buffoon on some issue or another.
“Okay, Governor,” Gibson could say to Palin, “who is the president of (insert the name of some obscure country)?” And when she fails to come up with the right answer to one of a dozen or so questions, this will be blown up by Gibson and the rest of the media into another “scandal” about whether she’s prepared to be vice-president. The game plan is obvious.
But nobody should underestimate Palin, a journalist herself before she went into politics. She should be able to handle any barbs sent her way. More than most, she should understand the journalism “profession” and its liberal bias.
But there should be no doubt there is a plan underway to “get” her.
On C-SPAN, I had done my homework on Faiz Shakir and noted a couple times that, rather than being a media “watchdog,” as he was advertised, he is a former researcher for the Democratic National Committee. He is now with the George Soros-funded Center for American Progress, which includes people from the Clinton Administration, the John Edwards campaign, and various other Democratic Party offices.
Most of Shakir’s presentation consisted of questioning Palin’s record and beliefs and expressing a desire for more intense media scrutiny of her. This is the Obama campaign’s new line of attack, which is being faithfully echoed by the media.
If the McCain campaign decides to “Let Palin be Palin,” she should be able to handle the media sharks. It might even be amusing to see her put the liberal attack dogs in their place.
However, my view, even though I have absolutely no contacts with the McCain campaign, is that she should avoid some of the programs. I did agree that she may want to consider going on C-SPAN, where the moderators have a reputation of being more even-handed and there is a commitment to letting people speak in complete sentences.
While going on the air with Charles Gibson is a calculated risk, there is absolutely no reason for Palin to jump into the water with the media sharks from NBC News, a network that has increasingly been viewed as being solidly in the Obama camp.
A Rasmussen poll found that 51 percent of the people believe that reporters are trying to “hurt” Palin. Twenty-four percent said the stories made them more likely to vote for McCain. The backlash has begun. If Gibson gangs up on her, his reputation will also suffer. This will be a critical test.
Palin said in her convention speech, “…here’s a little news flash for all those reporters and commentators: I’m not going to Washington to seek their good opinion. I’m going to Washington to serve the people of this country. Americans expect us to go to Washington for the right reasons, and not just to mingle with the right people.”
On C-SPAN, Kalb tried to suggest that Palin and the Republicans were trying to score political points by attacking the media. I said that the Republicans were just trying to defend themselves, and that they had every right to do so.
I also noted that the feeding frenzy was sparked by the Democratic website the DailyKos, which falsely claimed that Palin faked her last pregnancy and that the child wasn’t really hers. Shakir had spoken at the organization’s yearly convention, a fact he eventually conceded after prodding. The DailyKos is what started the liberal media’s preoccupation with her family life, and the pregnancy of her daughter.
Kalb talked as if the Constitution somehow required that she go on “Meet the Press.” This is complete nonsense, of course. In this day and age, the media consist of much more than little-watched Sunday talk shows. These programs are remnants of the old liberal media. She should treat these programs with care.
One caller to C-SPAN said Palin should go on “Meet the Press” when Obama agrees to face a grilling on the Rush Limbaugh radio program. That sounded fair. The call reminded us that Barack Obama has been very reluctant to go on “The O’Reilly Factor” on Fox News. In the first installment of that interview, O’Reilly managed to force Obama to concede, in effect, that his judgment about the effect of the U.S. military troop surge in Iraq was just wrong.
According to Michael Calderone of Politico, the McCain campaign is getting about 80-100 requests a day from news organizations for Palin interviews. Is she supposed to comply with all of those? Nonsense.
It is clear that the media elite won’t be satisfied until she appears on the shows that they deem important and appropriate. Those are programs, not surprisingly, dominated by liberals.
You can’t please the liberal media. Consider that some commentators say that, as a candidate, she won’t have enough time to spend with her kids. At the same time, they want her to spend more time answering questions on their shows and giving media interviews. It is “gotcha” journalism designed to lure her into a trap. This fact is as obvious as their liberal bias. No matter what she does, she loses.
I pointed out on C-SPAN that Biden has been a regular on the Sunday talk shows and journalists still won’t quiz him about his history of plagiarism. If you’re a Democrat in good standing with the liberal media elite, you will be treated deferentially, as Biden is.
In addition to plagiarism, Biden also has a record of making off-color remarks about people of color. He even made offensive comments about Obama himself, declaring him bright and clean. Still, the media stand in awe of his “foreign policy experience,” when in fact he avoided military service with a series of deferments, and his experience consists mostly of talking in the Senate and visiting foreign countries at taxpayer expense.
On Sunday, September 7, in what was billed as “his first Sunday morning interview since accepting the Democratic Party’s nomination for Vice President,” Biden went “one-on-one” with Tom Brokaw and was once again spared any embarrassing questions about his shameful history of plagiarism, which many members of the public are still not familiar with.
Interestingly, Biden was quick to tell Brokaw that Palin has an obligation to appear on his program. It sounds like a set-up. And it is.
Jonathan Beecher Field, an assistant professor of English at Clemson University, wrote a very interesting article recently for InsideHigherEd.com about Biden’s “track record of intellectual dishonesty.” This is what plagiarism is all about.
Referring to the plagiarism in Biden’s career, he said that while he would vote for Obama, “Biden’s dishonesty matters to me in two ways. It suggests something of Biden’s character, indeed, in a realm more relevant to doing his job than was John Edwards’s philandering to his. The other reason is selfish. Now that Barack Obama has deemed a plagiarist worthy of the vice-presidency, it becomes more difficult for me to make the case in the classroom that plagiarism matters. More broadly speaking, Obama’s choice has made it harder for me, and for my colleagues across the United States, to defend the principles that form the foundation of scholarship.”
Why don’t the journalists on “Meet the Press” and other shows bring this up? It’s because they favor the Obama/Biden ticket and don’t have the intellectual honesty of Professor Beecher Field.
I would recommend that Palin go on some of these liberal shows only after the reporters demonstrate their even-handedness. For example, ask Barack Obama about his communist mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, and ask Joe Biden about the plagiarism that not only ended one of his runs for the presidency but which interrupted his law school days when he was caught plagiarizing then.
Another topic for Biden could be his alleged Catholicism. Biden wears this on his sleeve. He hopes it will attract votes. It was brought up briefly on Sunday’s “Meet the Press.” Biden claims to accept church teaching that life begins at conception but he votes to allow the destruction of that life through abortion. This might be seen by many as another example of a lack of intellectual honesty and integrity that exposes him as a phony Catholic.
I noticed recently that Mike Barnicle of MSNBC did a story about Biden, highlighting that he was an “Irish-Catholic” and a man of the people who rides a train. But Barnicle didn’t mention Biden’s clear disagreement with Catholic Church leaders on abortion policy. The Barnicle story also ignored Biden’s plagiarism, which is really not a surprise since Barnicle himself lost a job at the Boston Globe because of plagiarism.
This curious fact helps us understand the media double standard. How can Brokaw ask Biden about his plagiarism on “Meet the Press” when one of his colleagues, Mike Barnicle of NBC sister network MSNBC, was exposed for plagiarism?
The media pretend that they have high standards, but it is a double standard designed to benefit Democrats. The public is waking up to their political games.
Cliff Kincaid is the Editor of the AIM Report and can be reached at (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
313 Comments | Post a Comment
Excellent synopsis of what Democrats/Liberals receive from MSM versus Republicans or Conservatives. And in this case, it is a feeding frenzy as all these “unbiased” hacks try to outdo each other in attacking Sarah Palin.
What’s funny is when you put bias together with ignorance, it can be humorous, but also politically fortunate. One can easily see when the left is scared of a person, their attack dogs (MSM media) go berserk trying to slam the person (in this case Palin). Even the most biased person, if they have any brains, can see the blatant out of control pile on to discredit her. Yet these idiots are too stupid to figure out that as they do this, they help the person they are attacking, and harm the campaign of those for whom they work - Obama. Yet they can NOT see this as she gains, so they redouble their efforts to discredit her some more, while she gains some more.
Had McCain picked just a typical running mate, one could have expected after the Obama bounce that their bounce after St Paul would have perhaps brought both camps back to even again. If the media had not gone berserk with Palin, and with her just performance in St Paul, one could expect that McCain would be a few points ahead of Obama. But when you add the overtime work of the MSM to gang up on her, this bounce is just gaining and gaining and Obama is losing.
And as they observe this they go even more to town and it just continues to help the McCain campaign - lol.
But I agree with Kincaid, the McCain camp should be very very careful which arena they allow her to enter. These attack dogs are out to get her, and while so far they have helped rather than hurt, in the right arena, they can and will attempt to create a scandal to hurt her and they could be successful if they try to get her to make a gaffe and then run with it.
Frankly, I would let campaign professional talking heads do the shows, keep Sarah out on the campaign trail, and not let them have the opportunity to hurt her. Let them feed in their frenzy - as so far, the more they try to hurt the more they help. And that goes for McCain also. He should be very careful which arenas he enters, as he would be better to also let his pros do as much of this as possible.
Don’t you just love these liberal media idiots - the more they try to hurt the more they help. Maybe McCain should pay them as campaign aides?? Incredible!!
As usual Cliff, you’re right on point. Unfortunately, Palin will have to at some point run the gauntlet in the MSM but she should put it off a little longer to make sure she is ready. I have no doubt she can handle herself well enough. However, I would like to see her venture into more fair territory like Fox News first to get her feet wet. I do believe the MSM will attempt to stump her with absurd questions that no one cares about. They will try and fail.
I do find it remarkable that Obama finally went on the Factor where we all know Oreilly will definitely ask him the tough questions the MSM will never dare to do. I’ll be watching closely for the next 3 days to see Obama exposed even more. I though his answers on the surge exposed is lack of humility and his answers on Pakistan were extremely naive.
Jack
I agree. If they keep Palin on the campaign trail, where she’ll be dealing with people who think she’s great, the media will be forced to hit her with ugly questions every time they stick a mike and video recorder in her face at such appearances.
The media would look like the vicious, biased slime that they are, while Palin would probably pick up sympathy votes from those who understand what’s going on.
And this “experience” nonsense? Palin has more “executive experience” than Obama, Biden, OR McCain! Interesting that only Palin gets hit with this particular topic, while Obama skates. It’s possible that the media’s blatant bias will lose the election for Obama as voters realize they’re being blatantly manipulated. Does ANYONE enjoy the feeling that they’re being blatantly manipulated? I surely don’t.
Hopefully, Palin will present McCain with the opportunity to change his mind on ANWR, which would be icing on the cake.
Perhaps McCain’s financial problems will force him to concentrate his TV buys in the month before the election…and he has lots of ammunition against this “community organizer.”
But Obama will at least get Chicago, which produces machine-politics phonies such as he.
What in the devil is wrong with that idea..If she cannot stand up to Media..how then can she stand up against the enemy or the left or anyone for that matter. do you all think she is that weak..give me a break. what you all are missing here is your need to stand with party, rather than Allmighty G-d and the laws of the land as well. It is no secret that neither one wrote their speeches. and you can bet they were checked for approval first. Notice not one word on same sex marriage, illegal immigration, except to say we are all G-d’s children. Some that will get killed in future as tho McCAin said he would hand those bills to the states..knowing all three will continue..He has flip floped again and again. Same with taxes. How many know the IRS is a man made scam, not a Constitutional one? I have yet to see him or Obama the Muslim say one thing except to show America they are for this evil and all against our Constitution. We are to follow the laws of the land, and G-d’s laws first ! Did you even care to realize what Palin did not say? NO she went along with all McCain said. No one cares to go to the gov web and see who voted on what. McCain will leave the borders open, and amnesy for all, and the same sex marriage and abortion will continue along with the road map to hell in Israel..My name will not go on any of these against my G-d…G-d tells us no one sits on the fence..you are for HIM or against HIM. It is too bad that you love your party more than G-d. Your choice…Here we have a few good honest Constitutional men and you ignore them. to our destruction…In scripture it says..will I find faith in the world? but HE lets us know that what was will be and there is nothing new under the sun and that apostasy would be in the church. Like in the days of Noah were…HOW were they?? So sinful that G-d said HE repented that HE made men. and He destroyed them with water. This time it will be with fire…NO fear of G-d tho proverbs tells us fear of G-d is the beginning of Wisdom…Not much time to change your minds..HE is coming..Not Obama not McCain once said…I will enforce the Constitution. the Declaration of Independance, or the Bill of rights..How about that…so many just don’t care enough..and someday soon they will be so sorry..as the PC mindset is all they care about..and how they feel, so dumbed down they too have forgotten their G-d…Pretty sad…how much do you have to see and hear or until it hits your door step and it will…till you change your minds..
Do I hate McCain, NO,,do I hate Bush? NO…I hate the lawlessness!!!!!!!!
It took so long for Obama to be interviewed by O’Reilly, yet Palin is being pushed to be interviewed by the likes of Charles Gibson. The liberal media have been trying so hard at the game of “gotcha” with Sarah Palin that they are becoming bores. I want to know about the candidates attitudes about issues not about their families. I want to know about Obama’s association with Bill Ayers and what exactly a community organizer does? I would want to know why exactly a man who could get a 6 figure income chose to get involved with revolutionary work with a business suit on. The more I read about Obama, the more frightened I become…not to say that McCain is some sort of saint either..but Obama is more obvious with what he is saying about what he stands for—and it’s not pretty. He indeed has plans for this country…big plans… If Obama is elected, be ready to get a new flag for the USA that has hammers and sickles all over it…
Dear Cliff:
I am so proud of you, Cliff! You are a strong voice of TRUTH in an era of deception, lawlessness and blatant prejudice against all that is fair and decent. 
Keep up the great work! We are counting on you to not let go of exposing more of the TRUTH on Obama, Biden and the liberal media bias. We’re behind you all the way and remain extremely grateful for your effective and essential investigative reporting. Way to go!
Best,
Joyce S.
Kim Segar - I suggest she stay away from the left wing media not because I think she can not stand up to them, after all this is a woman who kills bears and moose for sport and meat. BUT when you have a left that is just looking to create a controversy and beat on her - why waste her time and everybody else’s time. What’s the point? Why hurt her chances to be VP because the leftists are looking for a way to make her stumble. Since the MSM can not play like adults, and instead are whining little kids, ignor them, or better yet, give them a time out and have them stand in the corner. Frankly a parents firm hand on their butts would be better but that is called child abuse now so the new PC term is a time out.
It is not surprising, but very telling, the vitriol that has been leveled at her because of her social beliefs.
I have been a believer and a worker, in my own way, for women’s equality in the workplace, under the law, etc., for many years.
It is strange now to see those who call themselves feminists denouncing a woman because she did, in fact, make choices about her life. It seems that abortion is the yardstick by which they measure women’s issues.
Why do we pay attention to the media? That is what surprises me. Yes, it is decidedly liberal on social issues - but they are not always against the Republicans - who are supposed to be conservative.
The media helped this administration take this country into the war in Iraq - the media has helped this administration to encourage, and continue to aid and abet illegal immigration. The media has not be upfront about all the damage done by our trade deals.
It doesn’t always come down on the liberal side - so why don’t we just tune them out and make our own decisions.
I, as usual, agree with you completely. We have seen this media bias escalate for years, and has now gotten to the point of being so far over the line one can’t tell where the line is anymore with these biased media outlets.
It is refreshing, to say the least, to have someone like you who is excellent at putting together these articles, very well researched, with common sense and honesty.
Hey, if somebody, whether media types or otherwise, comes along and do to Palin what the “swiftboaters” did to Kerry, so what? That’s how it is. That’s how the mindless partisans have chosen to play the game. Why should one side engage in gutter politics and the other side not return the favor? Even with the media - - until Fox News came along - - the other guys had been playing fairly nice. But, once the Over-Hannitized Fox News starts showing their favoritism - - why would anyone expect the other guys wouldn’t?
Maybe TV favors Obama? Radio certainly favors McCain. Maybe blacks favor Obama? The Christian Right certainly favors Palin. Maybe a dozen big city newspapers favor Obama? Hundreds of Red state, small-town newspapers favor McCain.
The membership of both political parties has allowed their minority extremists, looney lefties and rockheaded righties, to run their respective shows - - and this is what you get. Paralyzing polarization - - where no one is open-minded, objective, fair, or truly concerned with what’s best for the vast majority of moderate Americans.
So,hey, it is all the fault of Fox News…if they had not come along we would have nothing to watch on tv but gutter media and what they consider issues. That is really good to know…that everything was so great until Fox News came along to mess everything up for all that beautiful liberalism going on.
Standing up for something other than liberalism these days is getting more difficult because they all say the basic same things, like it has been rehearsed and memorized by all of those professing to be liberals, and trying to talk with common sense is like talking to wallpaper.
Vox…it is my fear that they will ‘generate’ the gaffe, whether she is or is not interviewed by them. On the other hand, her popularity is such, that any attempt by the press to sabotage this woman is going to backfire. In other words, the MSM are inadvertantly going to propel McCain/Palan into the White House. And Lady Texan, from another Texan, you are right, but it is already being done. Look at all the alternative media…I think there are more people out there getting their News far more than msm news shows or even Fox News. Forget the Newspapers, most are hanging on by a thread because their readership is so low. Do you read the Houston Chron, The S.A. Express, or Dallas (shudder) Morning News? I haven’t bought a Newspaper in years. I don’t know anyone with a subscription.
We will hear about the trashing of Palen though. And I do believe it will back-fire louder than a model T on steroids.
O’Reilly was a farce on his first facing with Obama. I watched it specifically to see him “bully talk” his guests, as is his style…
Talk louder, talk-over them, don’t give them a chance to finish a sentence without interrupting.. LOL THAT WAS NOT O’Reilly when he spoke WITH (not OVER) Barck Hussein Obama (aka Barry Soetoro).
O’Reilly was either marching to someone else’s drum or he was “star struck” with ‘awe’ with B.O.
I won’t bother to watch anymore dumb-struck O’Reilly with Obama. Seems he fits right in with the liberal crowd with Obama on his show.
What a farce.
To a.J. Post #12:
Dirty, gutter politics always existed - - but they increased to a new level during Clinton’s presidency and the Republican’s impeachment efforts against him - - made boldface by the nasty Bush II campaign against McCain during the 2000 primary season - - and drastically worsened by the draft-dodging and Swiftboating-type crap during the 2004 campaign. Dirty politics begets dirty politics. Simple enough.
Fox News first came on the scene during the second Clinton administration - - and - - to get and keep an audience - - they followed a contrarian route to the existing network and cable news channels. So - - if you want to call the existing TV media at that time “liberal” - - then the “contrarian” position would be opposite, or “conservative” - - and that’s the way Fox News chose to go! It’s all about using controversy and conflict to gain viewership and, ultimately, profit! (And, of course, you really don’t want to try to sell the same stuff every other guy is selling, do you?)
So - - it’s “pick your poison”! But, until Fox News came along - - the others were all pretty similar in their perspectives, whether “liberal” or not. Once Fox came along and actively took the contrarian “conservative” perspective - - the others had to begin to redefine themselves and relocate a “niche” that they believed would engender greater viewership - - and profit! MSNBC became the “anti-Fox” - - and the others found niches in-between.
The result: Now, any individual’s TV media choices can be matched up with the level and direction of his own personal biases and partisanship.
Like too many other things - - when Fox and MSNBC came onto the scene - - the pie had to be cut into too many pieces for business to go on as usual - - so, like with dirty politics, generating and reporting controversy and conflict became the TV media’s road to success - - rather than carrying on like before.
It’s all about the money - - and partisan media are clearly an outgrowth of the increasingly slimy, provocative, often misrepresentative and propagandistic crap being passed off as “politics” or “campaign politics” by the two major political parties. Personally, I do believe the Republican Party and Fox News are more responsible than the Democratic Party and other media outlets for pushing at least the leading edge of pissy partisanship - - for profit, of course!
So, pick the medium you like and like the medium you pick! (I’m totally an American League and Yankees guy, myself - - and I wouldn’t be caught dead watching a National League game - - ever!)
I agree with you about how O’Reilly has been hosting his program the past year. I have been getting tired of watching and hearing these things go on during this program. O’Reilly appears to be all gaga about Barack Obama for some reason - I guess he wants him on his show and finally got it - but my thoughts are big deal. O’Reilly constantly excuses everything that anyone says that may even seem like it might be criticism of Obama and talks like he personally knows the man and what he thinks and why he does and says anything. That is irksome and tiresome as well as his interruptions and arguments with anyone who tries to have a differing opinion…and his buddy system going with that Doocy character is beyond my understanding as well…some things are better left unknown I guess. I have not and will not watch Obama on the Factor. I have heard and seen all I want to out of this person and have no desire to watch this drivel.
TK, the liberal MSM has turned the term swiftboating into a pejorative yet for all intents and purposes the swiftboaters were right about Sen. Kerry. As a matter of fact, the worst about Kerry was never brought up just as the worst about Pres. Clinton wasn’t brought up in his impeachment. Now a fair term is Borking, one that I’m sure you’ll disagree with.
I’ve seen partisan liberal Democratic demagogues call Gov. Palin a whore because she didn’t abort her Down Syndrome child, didn’t insist her daughter get an abortion, didn’t stay home with her children but served in public office, and that her youngest child was actually her daughter’s. And for all the foregoing she’s also called a traitor to women. Yet I haven’t heard of one of the major news denizens who accused her of the latter apologize now that the truth is known. I guess that’s not in the liberal lexicon.
Furthermore, nothing was said about Sen. Biden’s taking 2 hour train rides to work leaving his children behind after his wife was killed in a tragic car accident, which by the way I actually respect him for as he provided for his children and served his country in the Senate. So, is there a double standard with liberals?
To carolyn richardson, Post #14:
You gotta’ be kiddin’?!?!
I happen to be a fan of O’Reilly’s views on the “Culture War” - - but he’s generally a bombastic, egomaniacal, self-important, self-aggrandizing and disrespectful blowhard most of the time - - and he was actually testier with Obama in the first 7-8 minutes of the interview shown on Thursday than he usually is - - and I thought, at times, he was clearly disrespectful, or at least, very impolite, towards Obama who is, afterall, whether you personallu like him or not, a candidate for President who received 18,000,000 votes during the primary process!
If O’Reilly had done exactly, exactly the same to the Princess of the North - - you would have been fit to be tied!
Mindless partisanship.
To T. K. - response to your response to my post:
Of course you would think that about Fox News…yes, you are right in it’s all about the money statements of all of them…but we did - like it or not - need to have a news media with a voice that did not sway to liberals or conservatives as a lifestyle like so many of them do now, especially.
And I wouldn’t be caught watching any other team but the Atlanta Braves. Go Braves!
It is nice that we do have choices about what we want to watch or not to watch and we have the privilege of being able to have our own opinions and beliefs and are able to express them like this.
OK, yes Fox News found a niche - Republican (I won’t say conservative because the Republican party is not conservative), viewpoint and it worked.
Many of us were so tired of having liberal social issues pushed down our throats, we thought this was just great.
I even used to listen, religiously, to Rush. I was so thrilled that someone was pointing out the fallacies of government, when the Clinton’s were in office.
My brother told me not to be to carried away by him that he was just a Republican mouthpiece. I found that out when Pres. Bush was elected and he was such a big cheerleader.
I don’t think it is about money - at least I don’t think the politicians are divided on the money. Of course, each one would like to be top dog, but push comes to shove and it’s time to vote with their corporate buddies - they can’t wait to sell this country and it’s people down the drain.
The only reason we have such divided politics is because that way they can keep us all locked into our respective ‘parties’. Just look at much of the talk, ‘yeah, I know McCain is not a good choice, but you don’t want Obama or a Democrat’
Or the Democrats will say, ‘yes, Obama, may have some murky connections, but do you really want some right wing fanatics or Republican in there.’
We are evenly divided, that way the corporations and globalists can be sure their people will get back in office - no matter the party. Does anyone really think corporations don’t take measures to be sure their people get in office?
So then Americans go to the polls and vote for one or the other, no choice really, and for pretty much the same lawmakers, and they continue on their way doing exactly with the globalists and corporations want done.
That’s why the media pounced on Ron Paul with both feet as well as the other poltiicians. He had a real message and God forbid that his ideas got heard. God forbid a third party actually got launched. It would upset their applecart - big time.
Does anyone really, really think that Obama is going to stop the movement of jobs overseas?
Does anyone really, really think that McCain is going to stop illegal immigration.
Does anyone think Obama is going to stop the war in Iraq?
Does anyone really think McCain would stop abortion, even if he could?
The answer is no to all of them. There is too much money riding on all of them for any major change - except amnesty, maybe.
No, we no longer subscribe to the Dallas Morning News. My husband loves the puzzle, it was a part of his morning, coffee/cigarette/puzzle ritual on the front porch. When they named the ‘illegal alien (sorry, immigrant)’ as Man of the Year, I have forbidden it to come into the house. He sometimes goes to the coffeeshop and buys his copy, works the puzzle and leaves it there. He does read it as well, but it doesn’t make him as angry as it does me.
One thing we need to note, small town newspapers are quite often corporate owned as well. Yes, they might espouse Republican leanings, but make no mistake, they are going to push coporate leanings above all.
A small town newspaper I know was family owned for 3 generations. A corporation made an offer and the local paper did not want to sell. The corporation then opened an office, began giving free advertising, free papers, and even threw free papers to everyone in the city. The writing was on the wall, and the local owners sold out.
There is a large corporation headquartered in the city, it was a local business grown huge. They employ a lot of illegals. I visit there regularly and for two weeks running, the ‘man on the street’ question showed 3 out of 5 of the interviewees as illegal aliens.
Even the ‘citizen of the week’ one week, was an illegal alien.
Now that is subtle corporatism.
respond to a.J. Post #12
You are right on. I’ve been around since post-Depression, FDR days and this is the dirtiest politics from the liberals I’ve ever seen. I wish
all would go to a site I came across:
http://americandaily.com/article/23030
Subject: Democrat Operatives Vow to Cause Palin to Resign Article by Sher Zieve, 3 Sep 08.
I see it didn’t light up, but I typed it in the TO: address line and got it. It is quite a scary
article, and I called Palin’s office and gave them the site, to warn her.
What I don’t understand is why the Federal Election Commission still allows ACORN to do ANY
voter registration, since they’ve had a long history (with indictments/jail time for offenders)
of voter registration fraud. How can they still be allowed to engage in any voter-registration?
If it hasn’t been scrubbed from search engines,
I looked up ACORN voter registration fraud, and
ACORN, CSI ties. You can look along those words and find some scary stuff.
I used to be in th 3-6% approval rating of Congress, but after researching Barack Hussein Obama, aka Barry Soetoro… I go with McCain. Well, I really leaned toward him, even being independent, since Duncan Hunter and Ron Paul got no press and dropped out.
But I DO admire the Republicans for down dropping down to the scum level of such dirty
politics. That shows integrity and class.
TK you are amazing. Anothers point of view in the eyes of TK
Mindless Partisanship
Paralyzing Polarization
So Fox News came along and upset the applecart. They gave a ‘gasp’ another view and confused the masses and made the sky fall down in big chunks on to everyones head because suddenly the folks watching the news saw they had been getting the Newscasters interpretation of the News instead of just the News, and heaven forbid should the indoctrination be interrupted by other points of view as well as JUST THE NEWS. They also got the News that the News casters had previously determined wasn’t News the public should hear. OMG! and it wreaked havoc with the World causing mindless partisanship and paralyzing polarization!
Now we have the rest of the story according to TK.
kim Segar, you sound like one of the super Christians I know who wants a Party of God to rule America. Personally, as a conservative Christian I’m not in favor of a Christian controlled America, but rather a Christian influenced America. I doubt you’ll understand the difference though. While there’s no “wall of separation of church and state” in the Constitution, we do have a prohibition of the government respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise of religion; yet I get the impression you’d favor a religiously run government.
As for the IRS being man made, you’re right, and so is the Constitution man made. And while I view the IRS as the Infernal Retribution Sackers, it is constitutional according to Article 2 Section 2 which gives the president the authority to set up the treasury department along with the IRS and the Sixteenth Amendment. Yes, I’m aware of all the arguments against the Sixteenth Amendment just as I’ aware of the fact that the arguments have been rejected by every court hearing them. And while I believe the latter should be repealed, it’s binding until repealed. Neither situation is in violation of Biblical tenets; therefore Christians are required to obey the tax laws. But in our form of government we also have the right to change our laws and it’s one I believe needs changing.
But there is a Biblical admonition that I believe you have ignored. That is the one against bearing false witness. McCain and Palin have said they are against same sex marriage; McCain is against open borders but in favor of controlled immigration and legalizing those here illegally, and McCain did take an explicit oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic when he took the oath of commissioning as a US military officer. Also, you break that commandment, or is it a suggestion for you, when you call Obama a Muslim. That he has a Muslim father, a Muslim name, and was taught in his early years in a public school populated mostly by Muslims in a Muslim nation doesn’t change the fact that he accepted Jesus Christ as his savior. Maybe you believe one is born into a religion and can’t change. Is that according to God’s word or do you think you’re exempt from bearing false witness?
You make quite an expression about God, but do you really believe in His word? You certainly show no love or compassion, just judgment against all who don’t agree with your political agenda. There are a few political questions such as abortion, marriage, and integrity that are clear cut in God’s word, but you’d seemingly damn others for subjects that are not so clearly delineated. I think you need to take stock of your faith.
McCain may not be for ‘open borders’, anyone who is for rewarding illegal lawbreakers with citizenship is an open border advocate.
He did take an oath to uphold the consitution - that means the legal laws of this nation. Why hasn’t he been speaking out for their enforcement all along?
It is splitting hairs to say he is not pro illegal.
Vote for John McCain because you are afraid not to - but don’t delude yourself. That’s the problem and that is what bothers me about partisan politics. We work really hard to convince ourselves - and others - that there is something good about these people.
Simply admit that we have been pushed into a corner with the only choice is terrible and worse.
LadyTexan, A small candle of light ye be. You put The Constitution of this Nation first and foremost above the Scammers. God Bless you.
Politicians are like the puppets in a shadow play. They are controlled by invisible agents—in a shadow play, by human beings, who move the puppets and speak for them; in politics by huge corporations, which buy them off, by contributing to their PAC or campaign funds.
Americans are too stupid the understand the fact that the puppet is only a puppet.
hey kim: better get those medication levels checked.
you are getting even kookier than the rest of the inmates around here…
To Julie O., Post #22:
Anyone who doesn’t see mindless partisanship and paralyzing polarization on the outer fringes of both major political parties is simply not looking or is incapable of being honest. This country is just about equally divided into two camps - - and you might just as well call them Red and Blue - - and any election advantage one side or the other may get is usually infinitesimal. Rarely are there any “mandate” elections anymore, e.g., Johnson beating Goldwater 64% - 36% in 1964. The interests of the great middle, moderate, majority are no longer the focus of either party. Both parties are controlled by their own extremist minorities within - - maybe 20% of each party’s membership. Consequently, we Independents are stuck having to pick between the lesser of two evils - - or voting for a minor party candidate - - or writing in a name - - or skipping voting altogether. Party politics, as currently constituted, have made themselves useless to, probably, somewhere between 40% and 60% of the electorate.
And, as far a Fox News goes - - I generally watch O’Reilly every night and usually even catch part of his radio program daily. Otherwise, I find most of their personnel too personally goofy, geeky or eccentric for my taste - - and I find Hannity to be one of the most dislikable, distasteful and self-righteous people I’ve ever seen or heard on TV or radio - - regardless of politics. Period. If Fox chooses to take a conservative or Republican perspective on everything, that’s find with me. Everybody and every organization is as free as the next to peddle as much malarkey as they see fit. And, besides, I can usually detect media bullshit when it’s being passed out - - so, regardless where it’s coming from - - it’s only worth a grain of salt.
For me - - I try to listen directly to as many of the candidates’ speeches as possible - - and I try to find out, on my own, as much as I can about the candidates’ backgrounds - - and I look most closely at the one who comes closest to representing my own political philosophy and with whom I might be most comfortable with on a personal and professional level. I couldn’t care less for what the talking heads are selling personally - - since they’re all doing what they do for money - - not principle!
As far as media commentators go - - if I HAD to pick one and stick to him (or her) - - my choice would be Lou Dobbs.
But - - I switch around - - listen to all of them - - and feel disappointment that our citizens are, for the most part, unfortunately subjected to mindless partisanship and paralyzing polarization in wherever direction they should happen to turn.
We’ve become the “Divided” States of America because of it.
The one thing I haven’t seen addressed is any of the commentaries—in blogs, articles, or even reader comments (is it self-evident?)—is the idea that the appearance of Sarah Palin reads kind of like a “return of the repressed.” If you ever doubted that the Republican party really had such a troglodyte up their sleeve, or that the “family values” platform masks an irrational fear of sex, there she is: lacquered, conventionally feminine, “sexy” yet authoritarian, provocative and castrating at exactly the same time. The “desirable” woman is the one who encourages “abstinence training?” Why wasn’t she dressed as a dominatrix, which would’ve really brought the point home? This is precisely what she offers—what she stands for—the desire for/and negation of libidinal satisfaction. No wonder there was so much convention hysteria. Those people eat that stuff up. She is, in reality, “the return of repressed repression,” since we haven’t seen something like this in years. And of course, where are the suppressed libidinal impulses supposed to go? To war.
Fred,
You are too kind.
Eowyn,
Puppets is right - and they are really controlled by the same puppetmasters.
They always remind me of professional wrestlers. They go in front of the cameras and bombast and talk about how wonderful they are or how bad their opponents are. Yes, they would all like to be top dog, that’s for sure, but when it’s time for the charade to begin, they all play the parts assigned them by the one who pays the money.
TK,
It isn’t the extreme fringes that are causing this. There really is no difference in these people.
Think of the things that are destroying this country - outsourcing (globalization, so called free trade), illegal immigration, increasing size of government and growing government control over our lives, welfare as a way of life, and I will add involvement in the affairs of other countries.
All these things have been moving right along since Nixon went to China, before I’m sure, but I’m tracing what I remember. It hasn’t mattered what party has the WH, controls the congress, or if it is split, the agenda has moved right along.
Some of the things that some think are liberal or Democratic issues are really not. Think civil rights. That allowed the government to grow tremendously and to take more and more control of our lives, businesses, and education.
Think the war on drugs, same thing -
Welfare, we think that is a liberal issue, and that Democrats want to give money to the poor and the Republicans want to give to the rich. Actually, welfare (food stamps, government healthcare, free lunches, subsidized housing, etc), all takes money from taxpayers, but it ultimately ends up in the hands of corporations. The money for food stamps ends up with big agribusiness and corporation grocers. The money for housing ends up with construction companies and those who build low rent housing or own rent houses. Healthcare ends up in the hands of healthcare corporations and big pharmaceuticals, etc. Surely we see the fallacy of the charge that illegal immigration is a liberal issue.
This is truly a bi-partisan effort to take our money and put it ultimately in the hands of corporate donors - that donate to both parties.
Yes, we get our attention focused on women’s rights, equal rights, Presidential sex urges, etc., but that is just a diversion. That’s for our benefit and has nothing to do with what they are working on behind the scenes to keep the agenda of globalization and the destruction of the sovereignty of this country.
Oh David,
I’m thinking she pretty much personifies what women have wanted all along - the right to make their own choices about their own lives. But if her choices don’t mesh with the popular ‘feminists’ ideals, then surely something is wrong with her.
To say that sex comes with responsibilities and that one should refrain from sex until you are able and ready to take on those responsibilities, seems truly right to me.
Does abstinence always work - every time it is used. Nothing works if not used. Sex education in schools hasn’t been a stellar success, either.
No matter what the media, music, entertainment industry tries to tell you, there are consequences for our actions. Also, no matter what one might think, sex isn’t going away if you don’t partake of it early and often.
How many kids does she have? Doesn’t sound too repressed or sexless to me.
Could it be that some men are going to feel threatened by a truly liberated woman who makes choices for herself and tries to teach other women?
My goodness, think of the reprecussions to men if suddenly women decided they thought enough of themselves to not have sex willy-nilly, or with men who were not responsible, or outside marriage. That would mean a lot of males would have to grow up and become men.
Fred,
You are too kind.
Eowyn,
Puppets is right - and they are really controlled by the same puppetmasters.
They always remind me of professional wrestlers. They go in front of the cameras and bombast and talk about how wonderful they are or how bad their opponents are. Yes, they would all like to be top dog, that’s for sure, but when it’s time for the charade to begin, they all play the parts assigned them by the one who pays the money.
TK,
It isn’t the extreme fringes that are causing this. There really is no difference in these people.
Think of the things that are destroying this country - outsourcing (globalization, so called free trade), illegal immigration, increasing size of government and growing government control over our lives, welfare as a way of life, and I will add involvement in the affairs of other countries.
All these things have been moving right along since Nixon went to China, before I’m sure, but I’m tracing what I remember. It hasn’t mattered what party has the WH, controls the congress, or if it is split, the agenda has moved right along.
Yes, we get our attention focused on women’s rights, equal rights, Presidential sex urges, etc., but that is just a diversion. That’s for our benefit and has nothing to do with what they are working on behind the scenes to keep the agenda of globalization and the destruction of the sovereignty of this country on time.
David Goodis:
Keep it up child, because your rabid hate for a woman that does not think like a dyke from the Dail KOS - IS what will put her and John McCain in the White House. You absolutely intolerant liberals just do not have anything going for yourselves upstairs because everything you know has been planted in your pea brain through indoctrination.
It must make it a lot easier in life to be able to go through this world never having to think for yourselves - let Obama and his surrogates and minions tell you just what to say.
The problem is David, they were educated in the same indoctrination camps as you - the US public school system. And ever since Sarah Palin was announced as the McCain VP pick, your game plan has been the same - and guess what - it isn’t working, dude!
Obama has gone from 6 points up to nearly 6 points down, and that is over a very very short period of time - and why? Because you can’t figure it out - people in America think very little of you when you attack someone when she has done nothing to harm you. You spend your time trying to dig up dirt and when you can’t find any, you smear and lie, just as you did in your rant above.
People in America, that do not come from the sick mindset that is all the liberal movement can muster now - see you as being absolutely against EVERYTHING you say you support. You are supposed to be tolerant - you are not. You are supposed to be for diversity - you are not. You are supposed to be for women’s equal rights - you are not. Pelosi has 5 kids but not one peep about whether she can raise kids and be in politics. She had a daughter who got pregnant outside wedlock - not a peep. Yet, you sound like rabid dogs in your attacks upon her.
The filth that comes out of your mouths is completely against everything you say you are for as liberals - yet all we here from Obama and company, and you morons that follow him like blind sheep is hate and the most despicable filthy language in your attempts to discredit Palin.
Hey fools, you will lose this election because you can not figure out that your very actions turn those that would have supported you - against you. Obama drops the race card repeatedly - yet nothing about his race comes from the right, it all comes from you on the left. Anyone you disagree with you trounce on with a sick twisted glee, and lose more votes.
You say leave peoples children out of this, but you are the only ones who attack kids. You say leave candidates wives (spouses) out of this, but the attacks on Palin’s husband abound. You say leave religion out of it, yet you attack her as some religious nut, and your own Obama belongs to a racist hateful church that preachs hate toward white people and for black power over whites. The trash out of Obama’s preacher’s mouth is unprintable - and you people attack OTHER people’s beliefs?
So David, keep up the good work, as every single day you keep up what you are doing, will be the days that McCain continues to gain in the polls. Heck, McCain can probably quit campaigning, and just let you guys do it for him, he does better every time you open your hateful mouths. But, especially keep up the attacks on Palin and her family - the ad agency people will probably look you up so you can teach them the reverse way to get their message out.
Ladytexan, Perhaps You should replace Sarah as V.P. as you speak with eyes wide open penetrating the deceptions projected from both sides of the isle. You’d get my vote.
Fred,
I’m going to get the bighead here.
I had a time in my life when I thought party made a difference, but then I began to see the shape this country is in and truly began trying to see where to put the blame. The inescapable truth is, both so called parties have been working together to do these things.
With all of the fire and brimstone from Cliff Kincaid about Obama’s link to anti-American leftists, why isn’t there even a peep from him about Palin’s link to the anti-American Alaska Independence Party. Could there be (gasp!) a hypocritical double standard at play? Or do y’all believe the AIP is not anti-American? Hmmm?
David Goodis, it sounds like you can’t deal with a real woman. You must desire bimbos who’ll compliantly get an abortion should they get “knocked up” by you. That you can’t stand a woman with convictions, a willingness to be different, and an unwillingness to stay on the liberal Democratic reservation is quite telling. After all, no doubt you believe a woman should be promiscuous, willing to abort biological tissue, believe that all is relative, believe that individuals who own guns are bitter and dangerous, and that religion is for the weak. You make the perfect liberal man.
I tried to contact Pastor in Alaska but because I live in Australia my Email was mot accepted. Our LORD told us the world would hate HIS followers. World includes Media. This hatred will be expressed more & more as time goes by. Our LORD said we are to “Hate the sin with all our heart but still the sinner love” (with the Divine LOVE of YAHWEH) We are to hate the sin even as HE does. USA is on knife edge in its decision for next 4 years. Australia follows what USA does. There is a saying Only in America but Australia eventually follows what USA does. Greater the sin sooner it happens. We can support Palin when we can.
Easy,
I don’t know a lot obout the movement for Alaskan independence. Didn’t one of the leaders of that movement get murdered some years back.
I will say, though, if the federal government would remove all it’s illegals, that might not be a bad idea for Texas. Right now we are a state invaded and occupied by foreign nationals and I’m not sure there aren’t too many for us to handle.
We could put the Texas Rangers and NG on the border.
Doesn’t Hawaii have something like that going on as well?
Anti-American? I’m thinking more anti-government-as-we-now-have-it.
ladytexan, I had the opportunity to talk one on one with Joseph Vogler, the founder of the AIP, in the mid 70s in Fairbanks, AK. While a lot of quotes on the internet are intended to paint him as a fanatical anti-American nut, he didn’t seem so to me. He was quite pleasant, well versed, and made quite a few good points as to why Alaska, and even Hawaii, should secede from the Union.
He struck me a very strong libertarian and classical liberal who was convinced that the current American Federal government had seriously gone astray and wasn’t the government our Founding Fathers had designed. In particular, he felt the government had seriously deviated from Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution and from the Bill of Rights. I would defy anyone to dispute that without getting very creative with the English language. He was very pro-Constitution as written and believed that changes should be thru the amendment process and not thru activist judges.
While I viewed his proposals as impractical as such concepts would seriously weaken the concept of a Union I had to admit his criticisms against the Federal government even in the 70s were quite valid. Furthermore, I dare say that the Left would have agreed with much of what he said about government authoritarianism, Federal ownership of land (then about 70% and about 60% now), Federal dictates on petroleum exploration and usage, and control of transportation resources.
By the way, Vogler advocated secession from the Union but with a continued relationship with the US somewhat like Guam. The US would have been able to lease the military bases that it had in Alaska but would have had to relinquish its property claims with the exception of limited national parks.
Mr. Vogler disappeared under mysterious circumstances in 1993 and many, including myself, believed that he had met his fate at the hands of federal “men in black” as this movement was gaining steam, although I doubt it would ever have succeeded. It’s now said that a cconvicted thief by the name of Manfried West confessed to murdering him over a plastic explosives sale that went south. It conveniently fits in with the accepted view that Vogler was a fanatic, too conveniently for my taste. In the 70s he didn’t strike me as a fanatical nut on the loose, but then a lot can happen in twenty years, just as Obama might have changed after his long associations from about ten with communists, socialists, criminals, and domestic terrorists.
TK….cause and effect. My mother always told me that going out in the cold and getting chilled would cause me to have a cold. Well, she was wrong. Cold does not cause colds..we all know the answer to that by now, well maybe not all.
I have been wide awake all these years. I remember well when the politics of destruction began. It wasn’t because we were finally allowed to hear the other side. I believe we had some people arrive on the political scene that loved that little trick. It worked well for them, and it has caught on. To lay the blame on Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity or even not my fave, Mr. Bloviator O’Reilly is really a narrow minded view of looking at life, as well as dangerous. Think about it TK. The left left left leaning Politicians such a Hinkey (sp), Waters, etc want to wipe out all Conservative speech by voting in The Fairness Doctrine. They want to go even further than that and make Conservative speech illegal. If you want the 1st Amendment wiped out completely by continuing to confuse cause and effect, then beware. What you want now will bite you in the butt later. The Constitution was written for all of us.
Actually, I don’t see any one of you dismantling my argument about what she represents. And if there are any “pretaped” answers, ideas thoroughly vetted and processed by the media, they’re the ones I’ve found here. All you can do is repeat the same things said by every other conservative analyst. The thing I’ve pointed out about her appearance won’t be mentioned by MSNBC, or CNN, or Fox News; but everything you say will. So who’s been conditioned by the media?
And by the way, one word about “feminists.” Sarah Palin would not be running for VP, much less have the ability to vote, were it not for feminist thought in the 19th and 20th century. So, keep on repeating, robots. Eventually—maybe not with this election, but someday—your tape will run out.
O, and by the way. The Left does what it does because it knows the other side has its Sarah Palins somewhere behind the scenes. Thanks for finally proving us right. It would’ve been a shame, all that reading for nothing.
“... The media has not be upfront about all the damage done by our trade deals.
...
It doesn’t always come down on the liberal side - so why don’t we just tune them out and make our own decisions.
...
It is splitting hairs to say he is not pro illegal. ...” - the ever irrational ladytexan
You’re forgetting that anti-trade and protectionism is the Democrats’ position. You’re ignoring and obfuscating the fact that global trade CREATES wealth. You’re forgetting and obfuscating the fact that protectionism and opposition to immigration are in effect a call to tribalism, Balkinization, and INCREASED racism, conflict, and “ethnocentric self-identification” (hyphenated Americans).
Pro immigration is not pro illegal, no matter what your narrow tribalistic corner of your mind spawned that emission.
“The mind is a processing organ; so is the stomach. If a stomach fails in its function, it throws up; its unprocessed material is vomit.
So is the unprocessed material emitted by a mind.” - Ayn Rand
Learn to process things with your mind and REASON ladytexan. Please quit spewing vomit.
To anonymous, Post 42:
RE: “Learn to process things with your mind and REASON ladytexan.” - - and - - “The mind is a processing organ; so is the stomach. If a stomach fails in its function, it throws up; its unprocessed material is vomit. So is the unprocessed material emitted by a mind.” - Ayn Rand
Shades of “Who is John Galt?” (have you reverted to “anonymity” Mr. Galt?) - - and the parroting of the mind and reasoning of an esoteric, eccentric, displaced Russian-born author of the 1950s - - whose primary focus, as I recall, was on SELF. And, doesn’t wholly-assuming the thoughts and philosophies of another as your own just make you another run-of-the-mill “dittohead”?
I may not agree with everything ladytexan has to say here - - but what she says at least appears to be her own original perspective on things. And, of course, a “synthesis of thought” - - learning from the writings or teachings of MANY rather than ONE - - is probably preferable to totally relying on the “teachings” of a single, self-selected “guru”.
If you want to depend on the ruminations of Ayn Rand as your mental opiate or crutch, you’re free to do so. But, refrain from being so presumptious as to insist others must do the same simply because you say so - - because you believe you have the singular and unique ability to select the only author or “teacher” of ostensibly “correct” semi-political thought that others should follow.
Personally, as far as the discussion here is concerned, I kind of go for Jefferson and Jackson!
Roberto,
Yes, thanks. It was Vogler. I couldn’t remember the name, but I do remember the story.
I remember there was some doubt as to the guilt of the man they implicated. He was an artist of some kind, wasn’t he?
He didn’t strike me as a fanatic, although perhaps the media was attempting to do that.
I grew up in rural Texas in the 40’s and 50’s, most everyone was just that independent and wanted to stay independent of government.
The Union might be weakened by the withdrawal of some states, but the union is already pretty weakened if the government no longer serves the people - but other interests. In fact, you could say when that happened, the union as formed, no longer existed.
I don’t know your age or where you were raised but I do know that those factors do have something to do with the perception of things - political and otherwise. That isn’t a putdown, but just what I have observed with my children (age) and now with a very nice SIL who was raised in the North (geographical).
So, I will say that Mr. Vogler did strike me somewhat as a libertarian, but not a liberal. He was more of an old-time conservative. My Grandparents were staunch Texas Republicans. The Republicans of that time were nothing like what we have calling themselves Republicans today. To be against government interference in state’s rights, in business and personal things, to believe strongly in the constitution, was the main thought back then.
Of course, to be fair, the Democrats of that day are not like the Democrats today, either. The Democrats in Texas were way more conservative than the any so called rightwing Republicans today.
While we tend to think the hippies had a tremendous affect on our government, they were just allowed to draw the lightning and the poltiicians did what they wanted in the first place.
The idea back then was, the government had gone astray, but they also believed that government should fix everything. While acting as if they were anti-government, they actually were demanding the government take more and more control of this country. The action of the so called liberals from the late 60’s on, with the help of the so called conservatives, has grown this government into a behemoth that is just too big and multi-headed to ever be ‘of, for and by the people’ again. It is almost self-perpetuating and seems to have a life of its own.
Julie,
The politics of destruction are older thann that. I am not a fan of John Kennedy, although in today’s light he looks better, but I remember when he was running and there was a lot of ugly stuff going around about his religion and how the Pope would be running America if he got elected. It was pretty nasty.
Certainly Nixon was the recipient of it - some deserved, but he is still touted as the most crooked President - after all we have seen since him.
I also feel LBJ was another politicians we TExans are shamed with, but thanks to the media, he went from the ‘most powerful man in Washington’ when he was in Congress, to a joke when he was President.
Fox News did give another version and it was a welcome addition. The thing we need to realize is, though, it is not just a ‘conservative’ media, it is a Republican and a Corporate media.
When I had TV, I watched all manner of news programs, even FSTV, and can’t remember the other one. If you watch and listen to enough different views, you can quite often pick the truth out of all the garbage both sides are throwing out there. You have to wade through a lot, but the truth does get put out. You have to let the spin go over your head and latch on the nuggets of truth that are buried on all reports.
On FSTV, I learned that the Federal government had given a license to some illegals to operate a radio station. It was a small area station, but why should illegals be allowed to construct and operate a radio station? What’s that all about? How many do they operate around this country? Of course, they portrayed it as a wonderful thing, I saw it as strange and somehow frightening.
The media is forming our opinions in many cases and it is also dictating our speech. We are bombarded 24/7 with news, slanted one way or the other - but always slanted toward corporatism, and government.
It reminds me of the SciFi story about the time the government demanded everyone have a TV and that it remain on all the time. Also, a lot like the loudspeakers constantly pumping out propaganda to brainwash people.
David,
Yes, I’d say the fallacies have been pointed out more than once.
No one said that the feminist movement did not allow her to get where she is. In fact, I believe I did say that. She is practicing exactly the feminism I worked for in the 50’s and 60’s - the right to make choices in her life. To work or not to work outside the home. To do a job she was qualifed to do, even if it was historically ‘a man’s job’. To be paid as much as a man, for comparable work. Due to the work done years ago, she is doing exactly what we fought for the right for her to do.
Now the modern day feminists seem to want to again put restriction on a woman. If she is truly able to make choices in her life and have a family, have a job, and do them well, it bothers the feminist of today. That attitude is as bad as the ones we faced in the 50’s. The - ‘Oh, no, Honey, that’s a man’s job.’ They are saying, ‘Oh, no, Honey, that’s not a feminist choice.’
We, and countless before us worked for her right to do just what she is - make choices. I am not too surprised, but the modern feminists are truly showing their hypocrisy.
anonymous,
You missed my point, and it’s certainly possible I failed to make it clear - but then it could also be reading as you want it to be - not as written.
As for the trade deals and the media - I was trying to make the point that the media is NOT liberal. It is liberal on social issues, to be sure. It is corporatist actually. The fact that social issues truly do favor the corporations much of the time, although it is presented differently.
Massive government programs, voted in by both sides, and supported by the media, takes money from taxpayers, funnels it through the recipients ,usually, although not always, the poor. That money ultimately ends up in the hands of corporations - through housing, food, medical, etc. So though people say the media is liberal - they are wrong. It is all about money and corporations.
Once again, the corporations have the money, they are not about to let anyone get up there that isn’t going to toe the line for them. They didn’t grow as large as they have and get the power they have, by not ‘buttering their bread on both sides’, as one CEO said in an interview.
Fair global trade creates wealth - what we have is not fair trade and yes, it creates wealth for some, while it destroys far more individuals and it is destroying this country.
We should not put the name on it that politicians spin - like isolationist and protectionist.
One of the few constitutionally given powers of the government is to regulate trade and make deals and isn’t the idea implicit that the deals should favor, or at least be in the best interest, of this country and it’s people? That’s not protectionism! That’s what the government should do. How did we get to the point, that we repeat the spin that doing what is best for this country and it’s people is somehow wrong?
How is making trade fair and keeping it from siphoning off jobs and money from this country, considered isolationism? How is keeping this country sovereign and not allowing dangerous access by foreign companies - isolationism? It isn’t.
Tribalism, racism, balkanism, isolationism, protectionism - don’t let political spinners put words in your mind and then regurgitate them. Think for yourself -
If any of my posts ever said immigration, rather than anti-illegal, it was just a typo. I do, however, think our legal immigration situation is totally messed up and needs to be seriously revamped.
While I welcome discussion and debate, yours didn’t address much of my ideas - rather it was just a repeat of the mantra of politicians.
“... One of the few constitutionally given powers of the government is to regulate trade and make deals and isn’t the idea implicit that the deals should favor, or at least be in the best interest, of this country and it’s people? ...”
Ah, but there lies the problem: regulation that protects the rights of individuals to freely trade with each other is not the same as trade that furthers the “politics of pull” and favors one corporation or industry over its competitors. It is not the government’s job to determine or regulate what each party to an exchange of value consider “fair.”
What we have now is not fair trade or Capitalism: what we have is crony capitalism and corruption of politicians. What we have is a perversion of the economy by excessive intervention, control, and regulation by the government. What we have is closer to Fascism or Communism than to Capitalism.
anonymous,
I’m not talking about regulating free trade with individuals, as in my buying something from you. I’m talking about large corporations, with more money than God and untold power, purchasing politicians to further they goals.
I’m talking about making sweet deals with China so corporations can make billions, even though it hurts this country, compromises our security, and weakens our sovereignty.
No, what we now have is not fair trade, nor capitalism. What we have is corporatism. The corporations are running the world now, like it or not.
Yet, I have read on many occasions about how these corporations are not making a profit and we should get all warm and fuzzy about these ‘American Companies’, and not be upset that they are gouging us, selling us dangerous products, and importing workers to replace Americans. After all, they deserve to make a profit.
That is one of the better instances of total brainwashing I have seen.
These are not American Companies. They are huge global entities. They are larger, have more money, and more power than many countries of the world and have no allegiance to this country.
They buy politicians and own the parties to make sure their goals are achieved. Our government is not the only one they own, either.
The sad thing is they have been able to delude us into helping them and continuing to vote in their lackeys.
I repeat,”“” One of the few constitutionally given powers of the government is to regulate trade and make deals and isn’t the idea implicit that the deals should favor, or at least be in the best interest, of this country and it’s people? ...””“”
The only problem there is that they are not doing that.
ladytexan, I get your point. But if I understand the forumations of Third Wave feminism right—and there’s a chance I don’t, of course—they seem to express much the same thing you do. Women should be able to choose any identity they want. The main question they pose, however, is this: “What does it mean to use your choice by embracing a traditional identity? Does it mean the loss of anything that has been gained?” It seems to be a very complex problem, one that might be solved anytime soon.
On a related topic I think part of what’s happening in the Sarah Palin coverage is that Republican pundits are applying language historically associated with oppressed or marginalized people, which is something very weird. She’s represented as having the courage to “make choices”—which appropriates a politically charged term like “choice” and ties it to a politically regressive scheme. She’s giving American women the “choice” of not being able to “choose?” It makes no sense. The astonishing thing is that anyone finds such obfuscation convincing. Further, the conservative self-represention as group “oppressed” by a godless Left bears a little more examination. A state that allows women the right to an abortion is not an “oppressive state,” but, to those opposed to it, it is, rather, an “offensive” one, and conservative commentary continually chides the Left for its sensitivity to offence.
Re: Alaska Independence Party. We are, after all, talking about a party founded by a man who said, “I’m an Alaskan, not an American. I’ve got no use for America or her damned institutions.” The same man, AIP founder Joe Vogler, also said, “[T]he fires of Hell are glaciers compared to my hate for the American government.”
Destruction of the Union is the most anti-American act possible.
To Easy, Post #49:
Obviously, if Palin is found to have ever been associated with this organization (AIP) or its founder - - it certainly matches up with the GOP criticisms of Obama for his supposed associations with William Ayers.
Frankly, I really don’t think Alaska and Alaskans are relevantly connected socially, culturally or politically to the lower 48.
TO; ladytexan
I am gettin MANY responses to whatever you
wrote. Makes me wonder who is getting Mine??
David,
I’m not too concerned with her as a candidate, I truly know very little. My responses are really to the action of the feminists - so called feminist. The election will be what it is. Mine is the absolute frenzy by the media and the revealing of the hyprocrisy of the new feminists.
I don’t know from Third Wave feminism, but I do know that what I worked for was exactly what this woman is doing. It was so women would have the ability to make choices, to be treated equally in law and in the workplace. That is exactly what is happening here.
I worked so -
women could have the choice to work or not work,
make as much money as a man doing the same job,
have equality under the law,
to be able to support their children should the man not step up to the plate, and not have to remain in a bad situation,
to be able to decide for herself whether or not to create life - certainly the ability to destroy their unborn was never something I worked for or would work for - just the opposite.
Abortion should not be a part of feminism. It isn’t a woman’s issue. It is a human issue, a moral issue and a legal issue. For some it is the lynchpen. It is the criteria for being a feminist. As a woman, a strong woman, a successful woman, a mother, she is making the choice to take a stand against the destruction of unborn babies. What is wrong with that.
I am decidedly anti-abortion, no pro-life for me, I’m clear on my stance. I defy anyone to question my feminist credentials.
Evidently, they want choices as long as it is
‘their choices’. That’s not choice, that’s not freedom, that’s not equality. That’s true oppression.
The new feminism doesn’t have a corner on the word choice - there are many choices to be made. Euphemisms bother me. It is pro-abortion and anti-abortion. The worst thing the anti-abortion people ever did was play into the trap of coming up with a euphemism.
God gave us choice in everything, the law didn’t. The law just allowed them to do it without legal penalties.
“”” A state that allows women the right to an abortion is not an “oppressive state,” “””
Unless, of course, you are unborn children, then it’s rather oppressive, wouldn’t you say?
Any government that can deem a group a ‘non person’ and therefore can be destroyed, legally, can deem other groups ‘non persons’ as well.
Farfetched? It has been done before. There was a time in this country that legalized abortion was just as farfetched.
They can parse it anyway they want, they can squeal and rage, but the fact is, these feminists are not for women’s rights - they are for abortion rights. That above all else and that is very, very frightening.
god bless our country, and our party, and that “New” candidate Ms. Sara, for VP.
this country will be better off when she wins, we need to stop these commie, atheists, who seek to destroy our america. I dont care if they call her the queen of pork, and i dont care if it is true. She is a true God fearing american, and knows as we all do that God will make that pipeline happen in Alaska,just like he made that Jet get sold, even if it wasnt on EBAY, and it was bought by her campaign manager, another good republican and god loving american. what a stupid detail anyway, to make people look at some detail, not crucial, like our jobs, or our economy. God help the banks who are robbing us blind, if that terrible obama gets in. Good by Mr. obama.
To my friend Roberto: attacking ME rather than my position is called an ad hominem fallacy, and wouldn’t fly in a freshman course on logic. Aside from that, the list of traits you associate with me or anyone making an argument will only ever be a caricature. The only thing you did get right is my belief in the relativism of values. That is, the idea that every society decides how to code all the activities of life in a different way. A glance across world civilizations will tell you this. You would have to be excessively blinkered not to get it. The only prohibition that all researched societies have in place is the prohibition against incest. That’s it; and even that might reflect an awareness of the systemic (genetic) damage produced by such a practice.
Relativism is built into the very fabric of reality. As Einstein demonstrated a hundred years ago, time itself is relative to the position of all observers (this has since been proven by physicists). There is no single privileged point of observation of the physical world. This fact has enormous consequences for philosophy, religion, politics and culture. Special relativity is not the creation of the liberal media, and cannot be banished by the teaching of creationism, banning a book, or asserting some alternative “truth.” Given the relativity of the observations of the physical world—where all positions are subject to the equalizing power of spacetime—how can any one human political or religious system (which is based on observation) claim to be superior to all others? When you sneer at a notion like relativism, understand you’re sneering at one of the most basic elements that constitute reality.
That said, there is only the religious or political “influencing” of cultural codes. The only thing that can actually intervene on the behalf of people is ethics, along with the creation of laws. Ethics in fact has to play a decisive role here, since all discourses are entangled with expressions of politics, religion and simply the will to power.
Actually ladytexan, you and I don’t have much to argue about. But I think you’d be interested in a lot of Third Wave feminism. There are plenty of anti-abortion feminist visions that argue that abortion mainly frees men of their responsibility, and assert that a real legal space has not yet been created for mothers in the culture. That seems to me to be a way out of this particular bind. And the unfortunate caricatures of feminism that you see in the media.
ladytexan:
I believe you’re confusing the symptoms for the disease. The disease is government control over commerce, the symptom is the corruption of politicians.
Our politicians through their arrogated control of commerce, production, distribution and profit margins of goods believe (with good reason) that they “own” business and commerce. The politicians have created the conditions and incentives for businessmen to corrupt them in order to get regulations and controls that favor their business over their competitors, or even to get “permission” to do business at all.
Exhibit 1 is the current Democrat posturing over removing offshore drilling bans. They are now saying that they “may” allow “some” offshore drilling provided that they (the Feds, not the states) get sufficient unspecified royalties and the oil companies hand over even more of their profits to the Feds in taxes (the unvoiced demand is political contributions and other under-the-table bribes).
If any “brainwashing” is in effect here, in my opinion, you’re the victim of it, not me. In my opinion, you need to do more reading and study to formulate rational judgment versus “feeling.”
Globalization is a fact: isolationism and nationalism are the antithesis of individual rights. They are the hallmarks of tribalism.
“... Any government that can deem a group a ‘non person’ and therefore can be destroyed, legally, can deem other groups ‘non persons’ as well. ...”
Well, in fact governments have over the centuries only acknowledged the “personhood” of an individual when that government issues a Certificate of Live Birth.
TK post #44:
Providing a direct quote of someone whose words express an idea succinctly is not “parroting.” It’s scholarship.
I’m sure you’ve quoted or paraphrased Jefferson or Jackson at one point or another, haven’t you? Does that “just make you another run-of-the-mill “dittohead”?
By the way, Rand wasn’t “displaced Russian-born author of the 1950s.” She chose to immigrate to the United States in 1926 and spent nearly 60 years here writing and speaking. In my opinion, her best writing was done after Atlas Shrugged was published in 1957.
Yes Julie O, BS has returned, and now he is called David Goodis. I find it ironic these criminals think us so “ignorant” that we can not see through their deceptions - they really think they are superior to us idiots - what egotism!
Easy - Destruction of the Union is the most anti-American act possible? Do tell! You mean all those forefathers and foremothers were the most anti-British (English) when they “chose” to answer tyranny by overthrowing their oppressors? You mean that all that our Declaration says is just worthless words with no meaning? Patriots such as Jefferson said that it is the right of man to overthrow that which oppresses, and 54 of our founders, representing all 13 Colonies, signed that they agreed such, but after more than 230 years, now you, Easy, are telling us - they were wrong? Have ytou thought of re-reading the Preamble to the U S Constitution, Easy? I suspect you would find that Americans after the Revolution, and Independence won, still believed that free peoples still have the right to overthrow those that would be their masters.
rightamerican - Hahahahahha - such a card - acting like you are a hayseed that just climbed down from a tater truck! Yes, I get the pun! Your acting like you be one of dem ignorant racist righters, and God be for all that hate America cuz the righties hate America and luv ta steal from you all. The ignorance fool, is that you have such a warped mind that you see those that are Conservative as anti-American, and guess what? It is not us that changed America to the mess it is, we fought you liberals every step of the way, and you have what you wanted, a slowly decaying America, that is almost rotten to the core because of your “changes.” You are just PISSED that for eight years now, you have had us in your way from changing us even faster. Yes, Bush is certainly a problem even to us that have to stomach some of his changes we disagree with, but Conservatives know what your change is - America’s destruction, and you want to speed it up big time, and we be in your way. America declined when the Democrats last controlled the government, then we slowed you down a bit, and with Clinton you wanted to speed it up again, but we mostly stopped it, and even with Bush we have seen further leftist decline, because the leftist liberal disease infects American government to the core.
And now you want Obama to drive the final dagger into Lady Liberty, and make us slaves to your change - which is oppression. And yes, we are still fighting you - and patriotic Americans will continue to fight you. And if you push it far enough, we will be TRUE Americans and overthrow our oppressors. We want liberty, you want enslavement of the American people. Our forefathers and foremothers overthrew the rule of Britain for far less than what liberals have crammed down our throats so far - so we are being actually - moderate - as Washington, Adams, and Jefferson would see it.
“Yes Julie O, BS has returned, and now he is called David Goodis. I find it ironic these criminals think us so ‘ignorant’ that we can not see through their deceptions - they really think they are superior to us idiots - what egotism!”
Sorry to let you know—I’m actually a brand new participant. Is talking about physics a criminal act here?
“You mean all those forefathers and foremothers were the most anti-British (English) when they “chose” to answer tyranny by overthrowing their oppressors?”
Yes, absolutely, as was their right to be anti-British, as reflected in our rightous Declaration of Independence. But it was still anti-British. Every secessionist move is “anti” mother country.
When Spanish colonies declared their independence, it was anti-Spanish. When the breakaway provinces of Georgia declared their independence, it was anti-Georgian. When the Confederate States declared their independence, it was anti-USA.
Some secessionist movements are justified, some are not. But every secessionist movement is against (“anti”) their mother country, by definition.
I am receiving many responses that don’t belong to my posting.
ladytexan
mike c
julie O
TK
David
and many who did not refer to a poster.. couldn’t identify what post they were responding to. Any one else having this problem?
I am getting responses that don’t refer to my post. Most don’t show who they are responding to, but I have gotten responses to:
ladytexas (multiple)
mike c
julie o
TK
David
anyone else having this problem?
And Mark, yes it is your right to have your opinion, BUT those forefathers and foremothers saw themselves as exercising their rights AS British Citizens. They saw that the “mother” country was being anti, and them as NOT being anti. You can twist it around, as is your right, but if Americans were to rise up against oppression, they will see it as them being the America lovers, and those that are the oppressors as the America haters. Might DOES NOT make right!
I just left a Youtube site that was rife with goofs from Obama. I was able to get to the site by typing in the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LDou1bUzzA&feature=related
You want to click on the Michelle Obama Whitey
Remark: A ticking time bomb?
It really doesn’t much mention anything about any remark she made. It lasts about 4 minutes or so and it is FULL of Obama’s really bad/stupid goofs:
Iran is a tiny nation; they don’t spend 1/100th that we do on our military….then a couple days later Iran poses a great threat, they support terrorism…..
In Selma, talking about they met (parents) and here he is…. problem? He was born in 1961, the Selma march was 1965.
Really..be prepared and get a pencil & paper and
write them down for future reference. If it were not so serious that a Presidential nominee can’t keep his story straight from one audience to the next, even if it’s the NEXT DAY… if it weren’t for that, it would be hilarious.
Carolyn: I got 31 notices from AIM that there were postings to various threads, ALL between 1250 to 1255 PM Eastern time on Sunday. And when I came on site most were not even on the site here but just in my email. AIM is checking into it, but I suspect the left is hacking into the site since all the posts were nasty rants from the left, from the two you-know-whos. Payback for cutting off comments for about 10 days, I would imagine? And BS’s IP was cut off, so he has probably gone to a different computer and is getting liberal revenge? We can’t expect anything different from little whiny children!
Accuracy in media—McCain fact checked:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_mccain.html
TO Jack H Hansen:
Well, write down that site, or copy/paste it..
you might be able to get through. It IS worth
the try. Oh, if only the MSM would show that one thing…But, we e-mailers will have to be “the daily news”..informing them.
Thanks for the heads up. Yeah, mine notice
“someone responded to your (whatever) came in my in-box, to: Outlook Express.
Just received an email, from a returning troop.
It is a ‘commercial’ for John McCain. Great.
The site is:
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8
That didn’t light up, but I typed it my address bar to make sure and I got right to the troops video.
Watch it, then pass it along to others. That’s how I got it. IT WORKS.
Interesting perspective, Jack. However, the American Hertitage dictionary defines “Anti-American” as “Opposed or hostile to the government, official policies, or people of the United States.”
Do you contend that Joe Vogler or his AIP do not meet this definition?
I am also receiving a lot of notices, while they are overall interesting, are not responses to my input.
One more item on O’Reilly from me: I watched tonight since (as far as I know right now-I tuned in a little later) Obama Rama wasn’t on there and I was more than disgusted with that display of his so-called patriots and pinheads segment. If he isn’t in the tank for Obama now, I would like to know who is. That was a total insult to anyone’s intelligence, and a total insult to the woman from “The View.” That is a major disappointment but I saw it coming some time ago. That is my last time watching The Factor. What a waste of time.
Mark, re-read the definition of Anti-American that you looked up in the dictionary? Opposed to people of the United States? If a government becomes oppressive to the people of the US, is that NOT anti-American?
And you say interesting perspective? My opinions may be a perspective, but the printed words of the founders is what they believed when they were printed, and that is not MY persepective, that is what they said!!!!
I’m not too sure how this works, but I don’t think I’m getting any unusual replies to my posts.
I am getting a host of emails from ‘Bob’ who is apparently a religious person or organization.
Nobody,
“”“”“Well, in fact governments have over the centuries only acknowledged the “personhood” of an individual when that government issues a Certificate of Live Birth.”“”“”“”“
No, I don’t think that is strictly true. Abortion was once illegal as it was considered a life. Now we are probably splitting hairs here - so let’s just say the government is declaring a group as a ‘non-life’ or maybe just ‘not worthy of living’.
However you would like to phrase it, a government that can decide any group is not worthy of life, can decide another group is not worthy of life.
Anonymous,
Now, I’m not confusing anything. Our government does not control corporations - it’s the other way around. It does have the ability to do that, but it seldom uses it. Sometimes it pretends it does to make the people think the government is on the job - but if you find out the facts, it’s usually a slap on the wrist. As one man said to me concerning some EPA fines. “It’s cheaper to pay the fines than fix the problems.” The media, however, portrayed the government as being so tough on this industry and really doing its job.
Money is power and they have the money.
The government is supposed to have some control over commerce - as in foreign trade and in trade between the states. Yes, they have abused that power by declaring many things under the umbrella of trade that isn’t - such as gun control.
Once again, politicians do not control business, never has to any extent and certainly doesn’t now. Yes, there certainly is the idea that government can favor one over the other and I’m pretty sure I have seen that happen. That only proves that government is controlled by corporations. I’m not saying all corporations, just the big guys - but they are calling the shots all around the world, not just here.
There were some things, such as civil rights legislation, etc., that did, but that’s pretty much gone.
We really need to be realistic about things like drilling. Look at how big the oil industry is - and how powerful. I don’t just mean our oil industry, if we have any left, I mean worldwide. Realize we are fighting a war over oil right now (yes, it is), and that we have oil men in the two top positions in this country and many more in congress.
Do you think, for a nano second, if those oil companies, and this President, had really wanted to drill in Alaska, or offshore, that it wouldn’t have happened? The oil industry, which includes the peripheral industries (Halliburton, etc), have the money, the power. If any Democrats had been able or had thwarted their desire to drill, those people would not be in office the next time. Oil is big money, getting a friendly congresscritter elected is small potatoes in comparison.
No, I am not brainwashed. Just look around, corporations are humongeous entities with holdings around the world. Do you actually think a few little US congresscritters are going to be allowed to stand in their way?
Again, corporations are no longer US corporations , they are global corporations. Some people still talk about them like they were the corner grocery store.
Again with the ‘isms’.
I don’t know exactly what isolationism is, as you use it, but, it’s a label and a label others have put on something and I’m thinking the true meaning has been lost.
When did we reach the point that doing what was best for one’s country and its people is wrong and something to be denounced? How did we arrive at that thinking?
The Bible says ‘when right shall be wrong and wrong shall be right’. I’m pretty sure it was speaking to spiritual things, but it fits this as well.
No, doing what is best for this country and its peole is not against individualism.
They called Ron Paul an isolationist - that’s just something they called him - like they called him a kook.
No, my brain is working just fine and it’s not filled with labels and ‘isms’ planted there by those either in the media, or the propaganda field, or those who have had their thought process wired by some college professor.
Just because I don’t take on the language of the media and popular jargon (‘isms’, etc.), doesn’t mean I don’t read and keep up with things.
This is something I have watched develop for decades.
David,
I do think abortion has made both men and women think they are free of obligations and reponsibilities - the man more so.
I agree that the role of Mother in society has been so demeaned and that is so sad. I remember when the mantra was that women had to have a career to be ‘whole’ and they had to find themselves in their work and they were wasting their abilities staying home and rearing children.
Sadly, women believed that. Mothers went into the work force in droves. It is almost unseemly to stay at home now. I see women working today and their jobs are actually costing the family money. I have talked with them and we have gone over the additional expenses of the mother working, child care, clothing, take out food because everyone’s tired, etc., and in the end, they are in the hole. Even though they could see it, they simply believed they had to work.
As to the Alaska secession idea -
I don’t know that I would be quite as forceful in my condemnation of our government and some of our country’s institutions, but I’m not very happy with them, either.
I’m thinking anyone who is happy with them and cannot see the faults is probably not giving it much thought.
As others have pointed out, I’m very glad that some people years ago were unhappy with the British rule and did something about it - one of my ancestors was involved.
I’m also glad that some people here in Texas were unhappy and did something about it. Although, I suspect a little machinations from the US government there.
I just watched 2 on youtube worth watching. might have to hunt a bit;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxNLLAK9gek&NR=1
(on the right side column you’ll see another showing a copy of the cert. of live birth & video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLrGQaPzz6c&feature=related.
Go to page 3, then in the search window, type Michelle Obama Whitey tape & when you get to that page, look for Michelle Ob Whitey…a ticking time bomb.
Hope they haven’t been scrubbed. They were much harder to find this time!
I just cannot under WHY he has not been investiagted to the fullest extent to prove his
legal eligibility. The Senate investigate McCain, HE PASSED: THEY PASSED OVER ANY SUCH INVESTIGATION OF OBAMA? WHY”
Why has the FBI, CIA, Homeland Security of other investigative arms demand or supeona the
state of Hawaii to show a valid birth ceriticate, even leaving out SSN, mother’s dob, etc..leaving enough intact to show it belongs to Barack Hussein Obama (Jr?) Who can vote for someone who’s eligibility is in question?
Jack:
“Anti-American” is defined as opposed or hostile to the government, official policies, OR people of the United States.
Would you agree that Vogler’s AIP is opposed or hostile to the GOVERNMENT of the United States?
Mark, I haven’t looked up or studied this Vogler guy at all. I have seen a few on this site mentioning him, and understand he has or was leading some movement (AIP-Alaska Independence Party) in Alaska - but that is about it. So I do not have the knowledge to state anything further, except that various state’s have other third parties besides D and R? The state I live in has an Independence Party, though I doubt it is at all related to the Alaska one, and they are not suggesting that secession is an answer, and have not even suggested such that I know of.
That said, many have said that with the defeat of the Confederate States, the question of whether secession was an option for the various states, had been settled, and that it was now not an option. Yes, the CSA lost, BUT I do not believe that a states secession from the union is against the Constitution. Remember our government is a compact between the federal government, and the citizens of the various states where they are represented by their elected government leaders. It is the reason that we even have the electoral college in choosing Presidents, and why small states got the same number of Senators as large states, but the large states got represented in the House by their population, and the Senate is the Senior deliberatative body. And originally, the representatives of the citizens in the various states CHOSE US Senators, and they were actually a sort of liason from the various State Legislatures to represent them in the federal compact, and they have six year terms versus two for mere representatives.
While the founders did not want the states to leave the federal compact, and would certainly be hesitant to back such a movement as it could have been used to keep the federal government concept weak and they were looking for strength after the failed Articles of Confederation government, I would say that if pushed it was definitely their belief that state entities could leave the compact as easily as they entered it, by a vote of the citizens elected representatives. We have 50 seperate legal government entities that are members of the federal compact, the Constitution, and some of those entities were actually nations before entering the compact as a member state.
So in that sense Mark, I would not see it as anti-American for a member state to hold a vote to secede from the union, and if successful, to leave the union. But like the founders, I would be really hesitant to agree on such a proposition as one of the strengths of our government is that states do not come and go like members of some club. So in that sense, I have always believed that when the remaining states in the Union made war on the seceded southern states in the Civil War, they were committing an act of war against a foreign nation, as those former states, had now commenced a new government where they entered a different compact, and their allegiance to the old compact was legally and rightfully severed. It was wrong and illegal to use the force of arms to force them back into the old compact.
But, I am glad that they were brought back into the union, as with that secession had it been successful, I believe that other sections of the country would have also broken off, and the very strength of the union would have been lost forever, and we would today be an area of land with many different nations all fighting against each other and the US would never have become the power that she is because of the union.
And no, I am not a southern man, but a very northern man, and am descendant from abolitionists that felt strongly about ending slavery, and family members actually gave their lives to stop that secession and to end slavery - but I still believe that secession by a member state or states is a legal option.
To many of you:
I am no longer much concerned about the AIM website. Both its nonsensical op-ed pieces and most of the comments that follow are so detached from reality that they aren’t even amusing. Instead, they inspire only my pity. The paranoia and conspiracy-theory mentality that permeate both strongly suggest deep fear of a future which is rushing inexorably toward all of us. As always, we humans are advancing into the unknown. But the influence of technology, medicine and ever-greater amounts of wealth generated by the global economy have combined to speed up historical change and make its impact ever more powerful with each passing year.
So, an amount of trepidation is hardly unwarranted. What saddens and disturbs me, however, is that the worries I read about on this website are so insignificant. Fear of a multi-racial, multi-cultural American society, fear of an African-American president, fear of conspiracies and manipulations by powerful but invisible elites, fear of ideologies long since are dead and burried are all irrelevant to the really serious questions facing us. What are those?
Without attempting to put them in any order, they include 1) a previously unimaginable increase in the human lifespan sometime in the next thirty-fifty years; 2) the development of artificial intelligence both superior to that of human beings and capable of creativity; 3) human genetically-engineered evolution (as opposed to natural selection) leading to a man made successor to Homo Sapiens; 4) the possibility - only now dimly foreseen - of travel faster than the speed of light; 5) the philosophical implications of present and near-future discoveries in astrophysics; 6) the development of non-nuclear explosives more powerful than thermonuclear weapons, most likely from the application of anti-matter; 7) simultaneously, the harnessing of anti-matter to provide previously unimaginable amounts of cheap energy; 8) radical changes in climate and weather patterns, far beyond what has already happened; 9) the creation of so much wealth and plenty as to eliminate global poverty, hunger and deprivation of any other kind; 10) the total elimination of physical labor through robotics.
These are only some of the matters that should concern you. Instead, so many of you are walking into the future backwards, while you look behind into a past rapidly receding into the mists of time. Because you are unaware of what lies ahead of you, you are about to be smashed on your head - metaphorically - by a rod of iron.
And yet you worry about me blogging under a pseudonym, as if you and this website is of any import - save as useful for a psychological experiment of mine some weeks ago. (You see, I once was involved in the development of what the military calls psyops. I continue to consult on that. So, I dabble in it from time to time.)
May God have mercy on you in your pathetic ignorance.
Brian R. Sullivan
Re: anonymous - Post #56:
With all due respect - - here we go again with the John Galt/Ayn Rand stuff.
If one simply looks at the current reality - - another of your famous “lectures” on the Ayn Rand theory of the world’s workings simply rings hollow.
Once in a while, you might try to offer some current-day, “real world solutions”-type suggestions instead of endlessly re-hashing an early Cold War Russian author’s “theory” of how things “could” or “should” work. 50-year-old conjecturing, at that.
Rather than ladytexan being off the chart as you insinuate, you seem more likely to be, as you say, “brainwashed” - - maybe “fixated” is a better word - - by your apparently singular and narrowly-focused “reading” and “study” of your Ayn Rand book collection.
You and your would-be-mentor Ayn Rand are certainly not the final authority - - the end-all and be-all of political thought - - so, gather a little intellectual honesty and get off your holier-than-thou high horse. Please.
Fear of a multi-racial, multi-cultural American society,....Got one already,and it has been here for a long long time. Just asking for immigration to be legal not illegal. True assimilation should take place as it always has to be successful. No fear here BS
fear of an African-American president…Where are you getting that BS? I would love to see a President Michael Steele. I would also follow Herman Cain to the ends of the earth. Who you callin racist bro? I don’t like Obama. Nothing to it other than that.
fear of conspiracies and manipulations by powerful but invisible elites….Soros is far from invisible BS…He is a scary man.
That has been put to bed here and documented like crazy…... We have all been to CPUSA website and know what Congress people all belong. Go spout that lie somewhere else. It is tiresome.
The other items on your list have not been discussed as possible fears nor have they been a topic. Everything you listed has been of great concern for me for a very long time. You have been on a forum that has been conversing about the topic at hand. You want to perform some kind of sick experiment and bother others with your self-agrandizement. The only thing we thought of you was that you had more bats in your belfry than an Austin bat cave. Sorry BS, but we really love it that you have grown tired of aim and the posters here. Go to the daily Kos…good place for a mind like yours to psyops all day long. You will fit right in. Buh bye.
Dear Mr/Ms TK:
So sorry to offend your “feelings” of what is appropriate to write about or that fits your “feelings” of what is a “real world solution.”
You seem to have “fixated” on taking issue with Rand and/or Objectivism, or perhaps just my writing. You’re so much holier-than-me I guess I’ll just have to do some penance and go sit in the corner for a while.
You and Jack Hansen are quite a pair! Perhaps you should volunteer to be the REAL moderators of this site so you can just delete postings that offend your “sensibility.”
Seig Heil!
TK post 82:
HAHAHAAHA—that was a really well-thought, succinct and relevant response as well as a quite accurate summation of your posts.
TK:
Old Hickory indeed! Your inspiration is the extermination and displacement of thousands of aboriginals, theft of their lands, and the summary theft of Spanish colonies. And you take issue with Rand???
As you said: Baloney!
Julie,
Are you by chance, from Texas also???
Jack,
Some good thoughts, there.
I certainly see good reasons for some states to secede, I also see that it would weaken the Union.
Secession wouldn’t mean that the people of the state hated America, just that their needs would be better served by independence. It certainly wouldn’t mean they hated American people.
It might be a good thing, however, if states did have that option - might keep Washington in line.
It has been said that Texas reserved the right, but I’m not sure.
Interesting topic -
Re: anonymous, Posts #83 and #84
Hope you’re not injuring yourself bouncing off all those walls. How long do you think it’ll be before they let you out?
To your health - - and best wishes, always!
Jack said “Mark, I haven’t looked up or studied this Vogler guy at all. I have seen a few on this site mentioning him, and understand he has or was leading some movement (AIP-Alaska Independence Party) in Alaska - but that is about it. So I do not have the knowledge to state anything further, except that various state’s have other third parties besides D and R? “
Why would you need to look it up or study? His categorical hatred of America is more explicit than that of Reverend Wright.
We are, after all, talking about a party founded by a man who said, “I’m an Alaskan, not an American. I’ve got no use for America or her damned institutions.” The same man, AIP founder Joe Vogler, also said, “[T]he fires of Hell are glaciers compared to my hate for the American government.” - CBS News
If true, this information alone should be sufficient for an objective person to determine Vogler’s AIP is “opposed or hostile to the GOVERNMENT of the United States.” If so, then Vogler’s AIP meets the definition of “anti-American.” The logic is bulletproof. This argument can only be refuted by invalidating the quote or invalidating the definition.
Julie O - I knew it, I am the one he labels paranoid when I say that BS is posting under other names, and now the old goat has - Fessed Up! So I guess I was not paranoid - I was right.
I knew David Goodis and BS were the same, it has become just so easy to spot the academic superiority in his rantings. Only dave and BS were the nasty mouthed ones, but the I’m smart and you all are ignorant always showed through to reveal the light.
But he still has the twisted thinking of the true liberal always there. Their mantra that Republicans and Conservatives are scared of a black President - only they harp on this subject, just as Obama does. Yes, I am scared of this Black Man becoming President - but I do not fear a black man OR woman as President - this is a sickness in only the minds of liberals - maybe, just maybe it is because the liberals in their snake oil salesmanship want to get the black vote, have in their actions taken a strong, self-reliant racial group in this country that overcame the prejudices against them of the past, and transformed far to many of them into just needy government-owned slaves to hand outs from those they voted for. The black people of America have had a nasty master in theirbeing controlled by the left, and MAYBE intellectuals like BS hold a whole lot of guilt in them. You are the racists BS, we are not. You can keep harping on something that is not a part of this site, and say it is true, but the comments say differently.
Hey, and breaking news BS! America has ALWAYS been a “melting pot” of those of different nationalities and races. There has always been a new guy on the block - and they have with time assimulated. But like Julie O, I do not have a problem with immigration, just illegal immigration, BUT also out of control immigration. It takes time to assimulate people into our culture, and you academics wish to destroy our culture, so your answer has been so much out of control new numbers of people that it has torn the culture asunder, and Americans are hurting because of your shameful way fo forcing your will down our throats. Now, manageable immigration is what we have always wanted and what we ALWAYS had before you social experimenters screwed with things. And by your very admission BS, you ARE definitely a sicko that loves to socially experiment with others minds.
Except your own very biases cloud your thinking. While you are so-called experimenting you are coming to the conclusions that you already believed you would get because of your twisted thinking, even though every single response DOES NOT hold up to your pre-conceived believes and prejudices.
And anonymous - Old Hickory. You explain the fallacy of your arguments in your very statement. Americans took Spanish colonies?? No, no and no. The Spanish took Florida from the aborigines without treaty and without any form of payment. The US BOUGHT Florida from the Spanish. So no we did not take, we paid them when they SOLD it to us. And Spanish land in the midwest along the Mississippi was turned over to France when Spain lost in war, and then France SOLD that land to Jefferson and the US. As for SW America. I have already explained about Texas, but when Texas became a US state in 1845, the Mexicans that had lost it 9 years before, in the name of the tyrant Santa Ana decided to invade the US (no longer the Republic of Texas), and in war SW America was lost to Mexico, but in the treaty to end the war that the Mexicans signed, we PAID them for that land. So the Spanish had that land taken by the Mexicans, and in the end either by war (for Texas), and by being PAID Mexico sold that land when they lost in the war in which they invaded.
So anonymous, Old Hickory IS and remains a hero in American history despite your twisting of what really happened in history to fit your beliefs.
In fact, check through history anonymous, you will find that only Americans have ever paid for their land, and other nationalities have always just taken without compensation.
Buh-bye BS, glad you are tired of us. THOUGH, I will believe it when I quit seeing posts from you or the many numbers of manifestations that your paranoid split personality deems to inflict upon us. Just like a liberal - always blaming others for the very things that they are. So in the end BS, you were the psychotic while always calling us the sick ones. Figures!
But you are a liberal, and a psychotic (you call it social experimenting) by your own admission, so when I quit seeing your intellectually dishonest and manipulative rants through all the characters you portray, then I will believe it.
And I knew when AIM said they would ban your IP that you would be back anyway - it is the sickness of the liberal mind.
Mark - what part of no is it that you do not understand? Until this Vogler guy was mentioned on this site - I HAVE NEVER EVEN HEARD OF HIM. I cannot make a decision about a man based on knowing absolutely nothing. All I know is what you and the commenters on this site have said when you talked about him - and I am surely not able to make decisions based on that - and as I said I have not looked up the guy to study what he has said.
Now having said that, you mentioned that he said: “I am an Alaskan, not an American.” Almost all Americans, before the Civil War, said they were a/an….....(name of State they lived in and were from). They did not see themselves (most of the people) as Americans. Given that Alaska did not even become a state until 1959?? 1949? (Sorry, having a brain fart), that he said he was an Alaskan, and not an American, is not some big enlightening moment. I would imagine that it is not improbable that many in that state see themselves as Alaskans rather than Americans. Besides, let’s look at it another way. If you went to Hawaii and asked the people living there - they would say they are Hawaiians. If you went to Puerto Rico, they would say they are Puerto Rican, or Latino, or whatever. But both are Americans.
Is this website promoting accuracy in reporting? bogus!.. one look at this site shows its bias towards the Grand Old Elephant
Lady Texan
This is for you…and yep I am from where the beautiful river flows through the “hills” and home of some of the most wonderful summer camps in the United States…from http://www.texasrepublic.org
The major media outlets have referred to the Republic of Texas as a “movement. ” The truth is that the Republic of Texas is a NATION, and has been such since 1836 when it was established by the People of Texas, who won independence from Mexico. The “movement ” that exists is the People of Texas working to lawfully reclaim the soil of Texas from the United States which has held Texas as a captured nation since 1865.
The congress of the United States failed from 1836 until 1845 to annex Texas to the U.S. as a state because they did not have the authority under their constitution to do so. They finally passed a resolution (an agreement which is only a statement of intent and has no force of law) to annex Texas. In 1861, the People of Texas, by popular vote, exercised their right under the resolution to withdraw from the agreement. They, as a separate and independent nation, formed an alliance with the southern States of the United States. They did not become a confederate state, but were merely allied with them. After the civil war, the Union Army came to the Southern States and also to Texas and took over by military force and rule. There was never another document done to lawfully bring Texas into the Union of States. It was simply taken over and run by the military.
On March 30, 1870, the congress of the United States passed a special act allowing Texas to be represented in congress. This is the deception that has led everyone to believe that Texas was indeed part of the United States. The fact that Texas is not, and never has been, lawfully a part of the United States is one that is not palatable to many because of our emotional ties to the beliefs we have held all our lives. But belief does not change fact! When we come to learn the facts of how the People of Texas have had their freedoms eroded by involuntary servitude to unlawful governments, and when we realize that we have the chance once again to be truly free to own property and exercise our rights to ” Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness,” we can begin to overcome those emotional ties in favor of the excitement of the possibility of being truly FREE as God and our forefathers intended.
As you review the information on this website, you will see the work that has been done to proclaim to the world that we have found out who we are - Free people of a Sovereign Nation - and you will also see what has been done to reclaim our sovereignty and independence.
Thats why we are so ornery and raise a lot of goats. ]o)
Trevor: You mean we have a liberal here that actually could figure out that this is a Conservative leaning site mostly? And I’ll bet if you go to the Daily KOS you will see that they are rapibly leftist and really really nasty about it. The only nastiness you get here is when liberals come on site and trash the commenters, and then normal site commenters respond.
Julie - I have always liked your comments, and am a bit disappointed in what I just read, in fact, when I came on site and saw that it was you, I was surprised, and perhaps a bit shocked. I certainly have no problem with you being a proud Texan - bravo. I do not even have a problem with you seeing yourself as a Texan rather than an American.
BUT, what you just explained to lady Texan is just not true. The Republic of Texas existed for only 9 years between 1836 and 1845, and for a very brief period in Jan-Feb 1861. The people of Texas VOTED to become a state of the Union in 1845. Yes, it was different that Texas had been an independent nation before becoming a state, and all other states before that were either formed from the original 13, and lands won either in the Revolution, or from lands purchased by the United States from foreign nations. But Texas is NOT unique in that as there was the California Republic and Hawaii was a nation before becoming a state.
Yes, Texas seceded from the Union in early 1861, and shortly thereafter agreed to the Confederation under the name Confederate States of America, and I believe that was a lawful secession, and in the short period between secession and attaching herself to the Confederacy, Texas did go by the Republic of Texas once again. But Texas entered that Confederation as every other southern state entered it. There were no special agreements before Texas joined the Confederacy, nothing different than the same as the other southern states agreed to.
Now yes, as an American that believes that secession is legal, the north (or the balance of the states that had not seceded) then INVADED a sovereign nation (including my forefathers and foremothers), the Confederate States of America, and made war on her for a little over 4 years, and the south lost that war and surrendered.
It could be argued, and I agree with the argument, that Texas was forcibly returned to the Union, BUT it is Texas that made application to re-enter the Union, and when it was approved by the stinkers in the US Congress in 1870, Texas cheerfully then re-sent representatives to the U S Congress, just as they did before the war.
I won’t apologize for Reconstruction - it was wrong and created anamosities that should never have happened. Military occupation for 5 years by the Union armies from 1865-1870 was the wrong way to do it, and the previously seceded states should have just immediately been re-admitted and let the horror of defeat, the incredible loss of life on both sides, and the anamosities to end quicker than without the 5 years of more hell. And had Abraham Lincoln not been assassinated, I believe that would have happened, or at least he would have fought Congress on that, and would never have supported Reconstruction.
But none the less, Texas was re-admitted as a state in 1870, and has been a legal state since that time. Now I surely have no problem with you being an unreconstructed Confederate, the rebel in me, supports that. And I have no problem believing that with the defeat of the Confederacy, that Texas again was a Republic again between 1865-1870 when re-admitted, though a Republic under Military occupation by a foreign power. But when Texas was re-admitted and sent representatives to Congress, they consented upon the re-admission.
Now, having said all that, we need Texas, a mostly reliable red state. This will be another close election, with all the dead and buried people voting for Obama, along with all the names the ACORN scam gave them to use as voters for them, and all of Texas’ electoral votes are needed to stop Obama. So welcome to the Union, Julie O, though it is not as illustrious as it once was, but us Conservatives love Texans. lol
Jack you dawg…........
Why didn’t you go to the blue thingy I put in before I copied the quote onto the page. It was done by a group much like the truther gang that is still out there saying Texas ain’t really a part of the U.S. so there!!!!!!!!! I thought it was kind of funny. I could have done the answer with Wiki, but I have a big mad on with those folks because they are so left, and it is the most undependable site online.
Geez I am so bad. For an old fart I can really stir up a cauldron. Sorry Lady Texan, I was just having fun.
Re: Eowyn, Post #26;
I agree with your take on “huge corporations control politics” - - and very wealthy individuals also, e.g., GOP Boone Pickens financing the whole “Swiftboating” episode in the 2004 election; DEM George Soros financing “The Daily Kos”, etc. And, of course, the corporate money is given with the return promise that the politicians will do everything they can to provide corporate tax breaks and incentives, as well as eliminating any and all regulations that might be affecting corporate operations.
And - - now - - we have a Republican administration, for all intents and purposes, “nationalizing” (bailing out with taxpayer money) giant and supposedly “free enterprise” operations like Bear-Stearns, Indy Mac, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac - - so the fat cats can pocket the profits (inspite of their “unregulated” bad management) - - and the taxpayers are forced to pay off the losses. “SOCIALISM” in action, if you ask me, and the GOPs are always accusing “liberals” and “Democrats” of being “Commies” and “Socialists”.
It seems to me our government is really being operated by (and if not “by”, then certainly “for”) Wall Street and Big Business special interests.
The only way I can’t think of to end it is for a committed and activist populist revolution to elect independent representatives and senators who will put a stop to it by regulation - - and, I guess, that assumes there has to be some new way to finance political parties and campaigns.
Or, maybe, again by congressional action, take the centralized political power that currently exists in Washington - - and decentralize it by redistributing it to the states (where it probably belongs)!
???
Re: Easy, Post #35:
From what I understand about Palin and the Alaskan Independence Party - - her husband was a full-fledged member for a seven year period preceding her first taking a state government job.
Kincaid NOT doing the same hatchet job on Palin as he’s done on Obama, obviously, displays his extremist partisanship. The Lord knows that for every negative thing that can be conjured up about Obama - - a equal number of negatives can be found for Palin - - and - - when these guys can’t find something “real” - - they make something up! (I get a kick out of Palin’s “mayoralty” and how they all claim that was such a significant job! She won the mayoral election with a total of 619 votes - - about 1/2 the number of votes I got running for my high school student council presidency 48 years ago!)
Jack:
A little history refresher for you.
Jackson seized Spanish Florida in 1817. He did so under orders to prevent Spanish Florida from becoming a refuge for runaway slaves, although the main thrust of his orders were to wage war on the Seminole and Creek Indians in Georgia and to force those Indians out of areas where gold had been discovered.
It wasn’t until 1819 that a treaty with Spain settled the Florida issue and the border dispute between the US and Spain over the Louisiana Purchase that had been going on since 1803. Money was paid under that treaty to Spanish settlers, not the Spanish government.
The area of the Louisiana Purchase (purchased from France in 1803) was returned to French control from Spanish control in 1800. The Mexican war for independence from Spain lasted from 1810 - 1821.
The Texas Revolution in which American settlers in Mexican territory declared independence from Mexico took place in 1836.
After Jackson was elected in 1828, he pushed through the Indian Removal Act of 1830 which authorized the forcible displacement of Indian tribes east of the Mississippi and resulted in the deaths of several thousand Cherokees.
My characterization of him is accurate, even if you find it harsh.
Hahahahahahaha - Jack, you dawg…
Sorry, no I did not go to the blue thingy, and sorry I did not think you were just quoting them, but actually believed that - and it was a big joke on me. lol
Yes, I agree on wiki being leftist, but usually it is only so when it comes to slamming Conservatives, Republicans, and others that are not liberals, and dealing with political things.
Actually when it comes to historical things regarding events (not politival events) and biographies, wiki is actually pretty good.
And I just entered the denizens of the old farts today - I can now officially get a senior citizen discount at McDonalds. lol
RE: Roberto Benitez, Post #17;
I think “swiftboating” has been turned into a “pejorative” because, as with most of language and word useage - - the greater American public has perceived and understood it to be synonymous with “screw job”! That’s how it works will all words and definitions - - popular useage.
As regards the nasty things you say you’ve heard about Palin - - I have no idea. I haven’t heard nor read anything like the comments you repeated - - although, not unlike some of the extreme nastinesses common on this rightwing website, I’m sure there’s some equally nasty stuff on extremist leftwing websites.
And, I think Biden commuting back-and-forth from home in Delaware on every one of his senatorial working days - - instead of spending those nights in D.C. - - is certainly a big “PLUS” insofar as “family values” go. Palin has nothing on him in that regard. In fact, Biden didn’t remarry for several years - - whereas Palin has always had a “Mr. Mom” (her husband) always available to tend to her kids.
Another word for Republican IS NAZI IN WAITING!! YOU FUCKED UP THIS COUNTRY, CREATED OSAMA AND SADAM (REAGAN, CHENEY, RUMSFELD) YOU ARE THE CHILDREN OF SATAN. I CAN’T WAIT TIL YOU END UP IN A FEMA CAMP AND ALL YOUR MINDCONTROL CUTS IN FRONT OF YOUR FAKE CHRISTIAN FACES. YOU ARE THE ONES DESTROYING AMERICA. YOU ARE THE ONES DESTROYING AMERICA. IN 2000 EVERYTHING WAS FINE IN THIS COUNTRY, YOU STOLE BOTH ELECTIONS AND FUCKED THIS COUNTRY UP. YOU PEOPLE HATE AMERICA AND BLINDLY FOLLOW THOSE WHO DESTROY IT. I KNOW OBAMA AND MCCAIN ARE ON THE SAME PAGE, I JUST WISH OBAMA WINS SO YOU MORONIC FAKE CHRISTIAN RACISTS WILL HAVE TO LOOK AT A DARK FACE AND DEAL WITH YOUR HATE. YOU ARE DESTROYING AMERICA NO ONE ELSE, REPUBLICANS SENT JOBS OVERSEAS AND LETS COMPANIES USE ILLEGAL ALIEN WORKFORCES!!! YOU MORONS BROUGHT THE UNPATRIOT ACT. I CAN’T WAIT TIL THE TROOPS/POLICE/GOONS ARE AT YOU DOORS, TAKING YOUR WEAPONS AND PUTTING YOUR FAKE CHRISTIAN ASSES IN FEMA CAMPS FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTIONS. A NATION OF SHEEP, BEGET A GOVERNMENT OF WOLVES. MAY YOU ALL ENJOY HELL!! ZEIG HEIL BUSH! ZEIG HEIL MCCAIN!!!
Ooops…somebody lost his meds. Are the guys in the white coats at the door looking for their patient? Jack..get the door and tell them he’s in here.
Jack:
Just to close the loop, I would like to confirm what you are answering “no” to. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that THIS statement:
“T]he fires of Hell are glaciers compared to my hate for the American government.”
does NOT indicate hostility to the American GOVERNMENT? Is it your position that his “hate” does NOT indicate hostility?
According to the American Heritage Dictionary, “hate” means “To feel hostility or animosity toward.” Do you reject this definition? Have we dropped down another rabbit hole, or are we still using English?
What is your sickness Mark? You DO NOT UNDERSTAND the word no, do you? I HAVE NOT STUDIED ANYTHING ABOUT THE MAN, AND JUST BASED ON WHAT YOU SAY, I AM NOT GOING TO RUSH TO JUDGEMENT AND MAKE STATEMENTS THAT MAY BE WRONG LATER BECAUSE I DID’T KNOW WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.
Julie, the sad part is this liberal is a product of our dilapidated Public School Indoctrination Camps. He is sure going to look really stupid when the guys that come to get him in the middle of the night were not sent by the right but the left that he preachs his hate for. He is in for a rude rude awakening when he fights out who he thinks are the good guys are really the bad guys.
And if you think about what he ranted without his medication, Julie, he can’t wait until WE are in the camps. So he is really saying that his side is going to attack us because of our love for America, and wanting to stop them from destroying it. So he knows that it is his side that wants to control everything and shut up and take out the opposition - yet, like the typical liberal, he blames us when he knows its him and his evil buddies. Now we know why he is on his medication in the first place.
I just had a ha ha funny. Do you think that truthbetold is really BS? Nah, even BS is not that twisted, close maybe, but not that twisted!
Julie O,
No Problem - I didn’t know how to take that info as it is not anything I have ever heard before - so I would have checked it out.
Jack,
I really have only one argument with you, and that’s when you said the South, including Texas, WAS occupied. Some of us still consider ourselves an occupied territory!!
Also, with the illegal aliens here in Texas, we very definitely are occupied by foreign nationals.
They do have political aspirations for Texas and I’m thinking they are beginning to make their move.
My husband is very fluent in Spanish - actually Mexican - and I guess it’s time for me to learn a little more than ‘How are you and what’s your name’ - huh?
Mark,
Perhaps not using that same language, but aren’t you just a little upset with the direction our country is going these days?
We are very close to not being the US anymore - very close.
For all the actions this government has taken to destroy this country, I’m a little ticked - aren’t you?
Lady Texan…sometimes we get so serious about what is going on. Don’t get me wrong, the calamity that is happening in this Country is indeed very serious, so to relieve the tension I get wacky and inject a little levity. None of us are getting out of here alive, and I like to laugh. Besides, I live on a river and this weekends hurricane could really bring calamity to my house 3 dogs and 1 cat.
One of the things I would like to do is go back and re-study the History of this fabulous State. Never too late. There is a bookstore here with antique books on Texas History. I would love to pick up a few.
Jack..you made me laugh. When I read that tirade, my first thought was….could it be? Then I said, NAHHHHHH he would never go off his nut that bad and be that illiterate. Besides, it did not have one gloat.
Boy does he/she have the villains confused. Poor public school undereducated liberal thing. Gotta be unhealthy to live with all that rage.
Jack: I understand “no.” My intent was to verify the question that you were answering “no” to. That’s why I asked you to be VERY specific. But I understand wanting some wiggle room.
You don’t need to understand the man. The words speak for themselves. They cannot be misinterpreted. If he said them, then the meaning is clear. I doubt there is any conceivable context (other than quoting somebody else) that may render a different interpretation. Even a conditional evaluation (“If he said it”) would be valuable.
I imagine this should be of strong interest to you and other inquiring minds, so why not take fifteen minutes to research if there is any possible way his statement may have another meaning? The truth may be VERY inconvenient! If you don’t care enough, though, that’s understandable.
“strong interest to you and other inquiring minds”
ROFLMAO! You’re searching in the wrong place for inquiring minds Mark. I’ve never read such a crock of off-topic ranting about the same few closed-minded issues as found here.
Julie O,
Again no problem.
I do hope the hurricane does no damage - to anyone.
Our home is in Central Texas, and it is getting a lot of rain our neighbors say. Normally, we don’t get too much. Our neighbors are kind keeping our lawn mowed for us.
WE are visiting in NE Texas with our son and it has been raining here a lot - one entire week.
We have 3 cats - all with us in our travel trailer. Shouldn’t have told that. For all those who think I’m looney, that probably clinched it.
I, too, like to read old Texas history books. I also have some older Texas Civics books.
Stay safe——
Hi folks,
Thanks for this thoughtful article. I agree that the press is slanted—and, let’s face it, even a little slanted in our favor (Fox News is, after all, one of us; they’re owned by Rupert Murdoch, who hired Republican political strategist Roger Ailes as its founding CEO).
That said, if she really is the person she claims to be she should be able to handle ALL the press. She should be strong and smart enough to do that because she’ll have to do it all the time when she’s VP. She’s got great ideas; she should be able to defend them. People need to hear all her views on banning abortion, banning books (what a great idea to get rid of some of that liberal trash!), and raising funds for Pat Buchanan (who she backed as a fund raiser), and her questioning of climate change. (I’m sure she’s got some good figures to counteract Al Gore on the climate change issue).
I say: Put her out there. She’s smart enough, and her ideas great enough, to be thrown to the lions.
—Jerry Smithouser
Houston, TX
Dear Jerry,
Thank you for your sarcastic letter. I can see that you put more effort into your sarcasm than you did your research.
Lets see what you don’t know..Roger Ailes is Republican? It has been well known for a long time that Mr. Ailes was a Hillary supporter. Where were you when this news went out, in your basement writing your next useless letter? So Governor Palen is going to ban abortion? Jerry, I think you know that now Vice-President or even a sitting President can ban something that has been determined to be Law by the Supreme Court.
Jerry, so you heard Governor Palen has been banning books in Alaska and is going to ban books when she is in office as Vice-President. I believe you are going to get up to speed on the real story on the book banning sonny. I suggest going to factcheck.org or com whatever it is and get the skinny. When egg dries on your face it gets pretty hard to scrape off. They interviewed the man that investigates the material that goes into fact check last night on Fox News. (gasp)
The Buchanan thing. You will find that one in fact check too, but I will make this one easy for you. Then, if you want, confirm it on fact check. Remember the egg. At the time, Governor Palen was in full support of Steve Forbes for President. When Buchanan came for a Campaign stop to her town she was in charge of greeting him. She wore the Buchanan button out of respect for him. I know Jerry, something as a liberal that you really don’t understand, respect. This is so tiresome, this education thing, so I will quickly wrap this up. Governor Palen just said the other day…..(well, I guess you missed it…so dark in the basement huh?) she believes in globull warming, but not that it has been caused by human activity.
Get your facts straight Jerry, then we can have an adult conversation. By the way. Why are you so scared of Governor Palen?
Julie O,
It never ceases to amaze me how the hypocrisy of elitists such as Forrest Gump…err, my error, I meant Algore (they sound so alike the way they speak), doesn’t seem to mean anything to liberals such as Jerry Smithouser. You would think that Jerry would want his mentor to lead by example by cutting down on his excessive, energy-consuming, lavish lifestyle for the sake of the planet.
As far as Sarah Palin being able to handle the liberal press; I wouldn’t worry. At least she won’t go into an apoplectic rage such as the very thin-skinned Slick Willie would if given the same challenging questions that she’s sure to get.
That’s why Bubba can afford to walk around with that dumb Lil Abner grin all the time, because he knows he’ll rarely be challenged as evidenced during his pathetic and embarrassing presidency.
Laydtexan, I’m over the hill in my 60s, born in New York, but raised as an Army Brat. Also I retired from the military after 20 years, so I don’t think of myself as particularly regional. To me, my childhood home is Maryland and the DC area, along with Germany. My ex and better half is a southern lady.
Please remember I said Vogler struck me as a libertarian and CLASSICAL liberal, not a liberal. There’s a great deal of difference between classical liberalism and modern liberalism. Classical liberalism in my opinion was based on the word liberty while I believe modern liberalism is based on the word libertine when it applies to personal conduct. In the political arena again classical liberalism is based on liberty but I believe modern liberal is based on democratic socialism, if socialism can be called democratic when practiced in reality.
Your comment that the Union seems weakened is far too close for comfort. Due to the Balkanization of our country by the victimization philosophy of the S-Ps that has divided people into hyphenated Americans and the push for open borders with its concurrent influx of illegal aliens we have lost the character of our country. Just try to advocate English as the official language and watch the animus display by the left. And advocate that we should limit immigration based on the needs of the country with skills and education being the criteria and you might get bashed, more than rhetorically.
Unfortunately neither the Democratic nor Republican Parties have a clue, let alone solutions to restoring this once great country to a united democratic Republic under the rule of constitutional law. I for one am seriously considering voting for a third party, although I will admit to the consternation of BS and David that I might vote against Obama as I see him, Pelosi, and Reid as a clear and present danger to the Republic.
Roberto,
Sounds like an interesting life.
We are in the same bracket, age wise, but I was raised in the boonies of Central Texas on a farm.
We were a family, though, that talked politics and current news, etc., so I wasn’t unaware of things.
I did take the current interpretation of liberalism rather than the, as you put it, classical. I took classical to mean ‘perfect example of’. I understand the difference.
Yes, it is a quandry, do I vote for someone I feel pretty sure is almost equally as dangerous to the country to prevent someone I am convinced is dangerous? This results in disaster, maybe smaller, for the country?
Is a third party a waste of a vote? I don’t think any vote is ever a waste, but I do get the point. I everyone who is disgusted with the status quo, voted third party, it would become First Party.
Truly, it may be better for us to clean out congress than be as concerned about the President. None of the things that have been so detrimental to our country, could have happened without Congress agreeing - no matter what party or what person occupies the WH.
We have a better than 90% incumbency rate, I understand. That doesn’t really seem like an active democracy to me. Even though we aren’t supposed to have a democracy -
Any other thoughts on Vogler and the Alaska Independence Party? Is it important?
Julie O., Jerry and other liberals are terrified of Gov. Palin because she doesn’t fit their idea of what a woman should be. She’s not a bimbo who is willing to be the play thing of libertine men and then get an abortion when they forget to take precautions in the heat of the moment. As a matter of fact, not only didn’t she abort her Down Syndrome baby, but she had more than the S-P allotted 1.5 babies. And she married her childhood sweetheart and has stayed married to him. With five children the Left believes she’s not being a good mother and staying at home. How dare she run for public office! She didn’t even shack up with a black man for a year when she got out of college as the ONE did with a white woman. That must drive NOW furious.
Sarah Palin is a lifetime member of the NRA and is willing to, gasp, shoot an animal to put food on the table. She even believed the wildlife authorities that wolves were presenting a danger to the over stressed moose population so she approved control of the wolf population. By the way, it was the same S-Ps who reintroduced the wolves in areas where they could prey on livestock and pets and wanted to impose draconian penalties on farmers who had the audacity to protect their farms. I guess Palin isn’t a good vegetarian like Hitler and the top men in the SS. The S-Ps were also the ones when I lived in Alaska who wanted to stop all hunting and fishing altogether, except Native Americans who would be allowed to hunt and fish even on private property while that right was denied to the owners.
Maybe they even object to her help running a private fishing fleet. Of course if the fishing fleet provided free fish for the poor I’m sure they wouldn’t mind. And she also believes in drilling in that tropical wonderland that is the pristine wilderness of ANWR. The fact that the area to be drilled in is a desolate coastal plain far from the areas the environmental luddites show pictures of is beside the fact. Speaking of luddites, what is their objective? Is it freedom from foreign oil for our existing and growing population and economy or is it a desire to see a radical reduction in the human scourge on Mother Earth and a reduction in the living standard of America so as to make it a third world country and therefore what they perceive as an economic and military threat to the world?
Then Gov. Palin is a Pentecostal Christian and has admitted such. How politically incorrect! Doesn’t she know that there’s an absolute wall of separation between church and state in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and even the Declaration of Independence From Religion? So how dare she oppose accepted policy of abortion on demand for any reason at any time? That’s a criminal attitude, is it not?
But of course we know the ONE has more experience than a simple mayor from a small town called WaSILLY. I’ve no doubt that the mispronunciation wasn’t an accident as I have no doubt as to whom the ONE was referring to when he spoke of a pig with lipstick. Liberals can deny context all they want; it only proves their dishonesty. The ONE couldn’t even admit she was the governor of Alaska.
I’m still trying to understand what a community organizer does other than agitate for change using the law as a weapon and who is often a socialist if not a communist. I mean, wasn’t the founder of the Community Organizing movement and one of the mentors of the ONE, Saul Alinsky, a self admitted communist? Oh, I apologize for stating a fact like that. I guess it would be in poor taste to mention his father, his mother, Brother Roy, Cousin Odinga, Davis, Ayers, Dorhn, DSA, The Decemberists, his Marxist professors, the New Party, or Wright, all of who were socialists or communists; that would be somehow unfair. Nor should we mention Rezko.
Mark, if we want to question Obama on his associations with communists and communist organizations, which I do, then it’s only fair to question Gov. Palin on her association with the AIP and her views on its agenda. As I mentioned, I met and talked with Mr. Vogler in the mid 70s and found him not to be the firebrand that many try to portray him as being. Of course 20 years of frustration with our dysfunctional Federal government might have made him more radical.
Roberto….on your comment to Mark about Volger. I have to admit that I have no idea about the AIP and what Palen’s connection is, but I do know something about about a disdain for Government and the evolution of our own Government over the years. One must always remember, and I don’t know who said this, but Government is inherently evil. It is why our Founders designed a Republic. It is supposed to be a Government for the People by the People, a Government with limited powers. It is supposed to be one that provides protection for the people…ie a military. A Democracy is mob rule. That is why it is called a Democratic Republic…why we have an electoral process so that mob rule cannot take place. Do away with the electoral process and we have Venezuela. So, if Palen had anything to do with Volger it was probably innocent as she really shows no and has had no further acquaintances like the One to prove otherwise. In my life I have had many anti-government friends, some I have met at gun shows, but eventually they get a little wierd, so I scat. So this big thing Mark has with this guy is just Mark, trying to stir up a “thang” about Palen. Like Jack, I find it a bit tiresome.
I was going to hold my nose and vote for McCain. Now I will not hold my nose. I like this woman and I am of the old school since I pretty much have that in my corner. Behind every great man is an even greater woman. I don’t think that is what the quote really is, but I like it that particular way. I wonder why.
I am turning the big 60 next month, so many of us on this forum have something in common. We have seen the wars and felt the pain of watching the encroaching socialism due severe damage to this Country. I am not calling this Democratic Socialism because that is a dichotomy. This Country is so Socialistic already it is frightening. The Nationalization of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac put me into tizzie. I hate tizzie. So, whats next? Hopefully, Gov. Palen becomes our Vice President and God willing and the Creek don’t rise our President. I like that woman.
TK, I agree with you that Sen. Biden’s commuting was great and admirable, as I think I made clear. My complaint was that all too many liberals see that as such, rightly, but show contempt for Gov. Palin because she hasn’t stayed at home with her five children and foregone running for public office.
And while there has criticism on this forum of Palin you’re quite right it hasn’t been as acrimonious as on other forums by a long shot. But go to the DailyKos, Moveon.org, the Huffington Post or even some AOL forums; it has been vicious in the extreme. Please name the well known nasty rightwing sites that allow posts like the liberal ones I mentioned.
By the way, I contend that what the Swift Boat veterans said about Kerry wasn’t a “screw job” as it’s been shown that most of what they said was true and therefore the derogative connotation for swiftboating is due to MSM liberal bias.
“And while there has criticism on this forum of Palin”
What post contains “criticism on this forum of Palin”?
Shall we all observe a moment of silence for the departure of BS Dr. Major Sullivan, PhD., whose claimed accomplishments now include developing military psychological operations amongst too many others to mention.
In his ignorant hubris he assumes to say we have trepidations even for future scientific advances which weren’t even mentioned let alone discussed in this forum. It goes to show that he’s the one completely out of touch with reality. At least I’m glad he now admits to lying about his identity.
David Goodis, so I guess you’re calling Sarah Palin a troglodyte isn’t an ad hominem attack? That saying she represents a “return of the repressed; a ”return of repressed repression,” that she’s a “lacquered, conventionally feminine, ‘sexy’ yet authoritarian, provocative and castrating at exactly the same time,” aren’t ad hominem attacks? It sounds like you can dish out the heat like most partisan liberals demagogues but can’t take it. Like I said, I doubt you could handle a real woman.
You say that the Republicans have an irrational fear of sex. Can I assume you agree with SIECUS that sex should be enjoyed by all ages including children, between children and adults as advocated by NAMBLA, that those who believe in heterosexuality are repressed as opined by Dr. Comfort, that “mistakes” can simply be aborted, and that guilt is bourgeois? It isn’t me who finds Gov. Palin to be a castrating dominatrix but you.
As for Einstein’s theory of relativity and even the foundation of the word relative, the reference is that it’s relative to some fixed standard, which in Einstein’s theory is the speed of light. Even a college freshman would know that.
By the way David, you’re not my friend, so don’t be so presumptuous or condescending. If you want to be, fine; be honest.
Mike, go to post #29 of David Goodis and tell us he isn’t criticizing Gov. Palin.
You are absolutely correct. #29 is criticizing Gov. Palin. Rather bizarre criticism at that!
truthbetold, and you think Republicans are haters? I think you need to take your meds and go back to the DailyKos.
Mike, as bad as David’s post is, I’ve heard a lot worse coming from the DailyKos, MoveOn.org, the Huffington Post and even on some other AOL forums. I’ve heard the W word. The only time I saw the N word here was by BS and then it was facetious, not personal. So despite the fact some of us get heated at times, including myself, we have kept it down to a dull roar, all except truthbetold who got off his meds and started screeming insanely hoping for a gulag for conservatives, Republicans, and Christians.
Julie O., I couldn’t agree with you more about government. People forget the differences between modern liberalism and conservatism with regard to governmental justification. Modern liberalism believes in the innate goodness of people and that if government properly directs the people in education and in economics all will be nirvana. Conservatism accept the premise of our founding fathers that humans while having a lot of good and potential are inherently flawed and so is government. Thus they felt that a system of checks and balances best protects us from tyranny. That the checks and balances have largely broken down doesn’t bode well for a democratic Republic under the rule of constitutional law, a phrase that I seem to run into the ground.
“... So despite the fact some of us get heated at times, including myself, we have kept it down to a dull roar, all except truthbetold who got off his meds and started screeming insanely ...”
I see you’ve been ignoring Jack H. Hansen’s posts, eh?
emperor zero: Thank You for your comment, BS. I knew you could not stay away - doing some more military experimenting with us ignorant radical nasty Conservatives? Worthless trash that we are?
I only get hot when having to deal with the scum of the earth who tell me I’m a piece of s**t in their eyes all because I expressed an opinion other than the one they have decided is the only PC opinion allowed. Yes, I do not suffer liberals and leftists with that haughty we know it all attitude easily nor well! And I ain’t gonna change!
Who’s been ignoring Jack Hansen’s Posts? Jack has been away or quiet like a resonable kind of guy. How can you ignore someone thats not saying anything? Unless you are just stirring a pot…huh BS?
Emperor zero, or BS if that’s you pusillanimously hiding behind another pseudonym, I find Jack Hansen’s post #128 to be quite apropos. BS proved himself to be a fraud, liar, and a cad; unable to engage in a civil discussion without showing hubristic contempt for all who disagreed with him. His need was to try and stir up racial, class, and religious animus. He belongs on the DailyKos, his natural habitat. So have a pleasant day.
Julie O and LadyTexan: Sounds like Ike will be nasty - kinda like BS - and we all know how nasty he can be - please be real careful and hole up and take care of yourselves. The pictures I am seeing of Galveston Island when the heart of the storm is 9 hours away tell me this will be deadly, especially the idiots that think it is party time there - obviously liberals who will blame someone else (probably Republicans) when they get bunged up or dead. Take care, Jack
Re: Roberto Benitez, Post #118;
I think any Democratic “contempt” for Palin is not so much because she didn’t stay home and take care of her kids - - as it is contempt for her religiosity. To those of us not similarly “involved” in our religion (and to those who neither believe in nor practice a religion) - - biblical literalism, speaking in tongues, the end of days, and everything occurring due to “God’s will”, etc. - - can be off-putting - - and, of course - - to extremists - - it can be contemptuous. No question that that contempt can be expressed by some in the nastiest of ways wherever and whenever such expression is allowed or condoned. “Hate” comes in a lot of varieties. (The only comparable thing I can point to from rightwingers is, for example, the hateful stuff on this website about Obama’s alleged “communism” and the alleged “anti-Americanism” of his former pastor. The “hate level” is right up there with that directed against Palin.)
Personally, I think the “swiftboating” thing was a purely political ploy and certainly not definitive - - however - - my only point is that apparently, at least as far as pop politics and pop culture go - - the American public’s perception of the word circumscribes its definition - - and the pop culture definition (whether it entered the lexicon via media usage or not) of “swiftboating” is “a rumor-mongering-based screw-job”. I think the activity itself probably goes back to pre-history - - and only the name is new.
TK—however—my only point is…no it isn’t your only point TK…you made many points in your liberal lying dump - you dumped on Palin about her religion, and you dumped on Conservatives who tell the truth about things that are clear for all to see, EXCEPT you disagree with them because you are unable to see what is right in front of your face.
Wright IS Un-American, that is not a hateful statement from us right-wingers, it is the truth as HE HIMSELF stated for all the world to see and hear. I might add that he is the lowest dog for his racism - and that man even beats Jesse, Louis, and Al, and that takes some doing as these three are the premier race-baiters of America.
While one might argue that Obama is not a communist, he is certainly to the far side of extreme socialist, and many a reasonable person could consider that to be the same as being a communist, since the very things he advocates for America are certainly like those of a communist state, and certainly of a socialist state that has gone to an extreme. So that is also not a hateful statement - but a statement of fact.
Now, so you can see the difference, the statements YOU made about what you see as the errors within Sarah Palins religion - those ARE hateful statements, as you took generalities of some within her religion and attributed them to her. She has clearly stated what her beliefs are and the errors of what you just attributed to her as fact - so you are therefore a liar - and are also extremely INTOLERANT of religion. But then, what else is new, you are a leftist, and all leftists are intolerant.
So TK, don’t try to con us my making statements trying to sound reasonable, we see through the bull to the point you are really trying to con down others throats.
Calling a spade a spade (oops I guess that is going to be called a racist statement since we are talking about Obama) so lets call an orange an orange, Pastor Wright is not an “Alleged” anti-American, he clearly stated in his sermons (heard in totality by yours truly)that he is Anti-American. If your radical left wing loonies hate Religion in any form or a specific form means nothing to me, it is your noose, not mine. So, if there is contempt for anyone it is because of their faith….so much for the tolerent Democrats. Except when it comes to the Islamic faith. It is currently in for the Dims to love the Islamic faith. Look at the college idiots roaming around like little adopted Islamic facsists dressed in Islamic garb. Cool huh?
So you believe we are full of hate because we know that Obama is a Marxist. Has anyone here claimed they hate Obama? Nope TK they have not…ever. But, I know that those of us that post here despise the thought of our Country being led by a man that obviously follows Marxist tenents. That does not mean we despise him, we despise the ideology. Quite a difference TK. Just cause you say it doesn’t make it real.
Get off the swiftboating thing. Those men told the truth. Most of us were alive during that time and remember Kerry in Moscow TK. You can spout all you want, the Mantra that those honorable men were lying, but they were not. The truth cannot be changed, a lie never stays the same. I am married to a soldier that watched him testify. This household does not even allow that mans name mentioned. Believe the lie if you want. You are an easy mark as a useful idiot. I believe in God and hold my hands and arms up in Praise and Worship…Contempt that Mr. Lib.
Hi Julie, hope you will be okay when Ike gets you really really wet. I too watched ol what’s his name commit treason when he lied. I watched him in Moscow and I watched Hanoi Jane sitting on a howitzer with the Cong making smoochie smoochie. They wanted the same for Iraq, and so far, we have been able to stop them. Imagine when we are almost completely successful in Iraq and Obama gets in - maybe he can get Kerry to go with him when they run up the white flag. We can not allow that to ever happen again - and I took two bullets as we cut and run last time, and then was rewarded by coming home and getting spit on. I learned to hide my uniform very quickly - and the young men and women in Iraq now - God forbid if Obama, Pelosi, Reid and Company ever put them through that again.
Stay safe, and I hope you are not too close to Ike, Jack
Re: Jack H Hansen, Post #133; Julie O., Post #134;
You’re entitled to your opinions - - and I certainly realize that no one can change a committed ideologue’s mind - - but both of your derisive posts clearly convey some sense of political paranoia (or, at the very least, a serious sense of insecurity) - - some definite reading comprehension problems - - and some very obvious and dramatically unChristian - - hatred!
And, I guess to you two, anyone not in perfect synchrony with the ideals of Genghis Kahn is a - - Heaven forbid - - “Liberal”.
(Note: Most people would agree that Jesus was a “Liberal”. I, on the other hand, am a longtime-registered Independent who has voted for various Republicans many times (definitely not Nixon!) - - but probably not this time. My favorite current Republican is Pat Buchanan; my favorite political TV commentator is Lou Dobbs; and I’m a very committed, lifelong, practicing (and onetime teaching) member of the largest Christian denomination in the U.S.)
Your Hot Buttons are getting the best of each of you.(???)
Hi Brian (TK) - puffing about your credentials again I see, and how you are the only (Catholic) christian one here, and we are devils ala Genghis - so got anything else new - we heard that spiel before - of course we also heard that you were done with your social experimentation (must be a liberal, huh?) and were moving on to bigger and better things.
We already know you must have spent years in the loony bin, oops (I mean liberal sites like Daily KOS and Huffing and puffing) experimenting with them and look at the mess you made there. If we still had a functional state operated system that took care of people like that, the whole mess you made would be carted off to the ha ha house (and please don’t worry Brian, they WILL stop by your house and pick you up too).
TK if you are really a Christian you would know not to tag Jesus with a modern term such as Liberal. If you really know Jesus you would not make that loony statement ever again. Liberal in modern times (that is today) has nothing at all to do with the love, acceptance and kindness that Jesus had. But, if you remember the Temple…he kicked butt. The money changers remember. Jesus was about freedom, not slavery. Forgiveness not retribution. Check Obamas crowd right now in Alaska digging up dirt. Don’t insult our Savior TK by bringing him into this. If you bring him up again in this way I will do to you what I did to Dave and swallow you up in his word until you go away for good. The Devil lies TK and he is darn good at it. I know Bull crud when I hear it and that is why I wear tall boots walkin through a pasteur. Dont bring your lying crud in here. You aren’t anymore of an Independent than I am Queen Elizabeth.
To those of us not similarly “involved” in our religion (and to those who neither believe in nor practice a religion)
How do you explain that statement TK versus this statement…..
and I’m a very committed, lifelong, practicing (and onetime teaching) member of the largest Christian denomination in the U.S.)
Thou shalt not commit false witness
I’m taking off my boots now, so spare me your &^*&^&%^%&
Jack,
Thanks for the concern. I’m in NE TExas, now, and all we are getting so far is rain and not enough to cause problems - so far.
A lot of people did come through here evacuating and between the panic and evacuees, our little town ran out of gas.
We were in Dallas, and our son called and warned us to fill up before we got back here.
So far, the only iffy time was whether or the the Homecoming football game would proceed and it did, ‘very wet’ my son said.
Julie,
How are you - are you safe and relatively dry?
How are the animals?
Well heck Lady Texan, I prayed for no flood, but not continued drought. Not a drop, and hot and muggy. The animals are happy and spoiled. Thanks for asking. If you are still in N.E. Texas, better watch out..hes is coming your way. Stay safe
Julie,
So sorry about the no rain, I know how that is. Where we actually live we have a wet year about every 5 years and this last one wasn’t one of them. Other than a couple of 5 minute showers, not a drop of rain on our garden all year. Our neighbor did say that it had rained there lately and his son had mowed our lawn.
Yes, still in NE Texas, it has been raining, and now the wind is picking up a little - not too bad.
We are in our travel trailer at my son’s place and I just asked my husband if maybe I should get prepared to abandon the trailer. He said he didn’t think so.
The trailer is rocking a little bit.
I haven’t been back to this particular page for a while, but I thought I’d mention to Roberto that I’ve taught quantum theory.
—>David Goodis, so I guess you’re calling Sarah Palin a troglodyte isn’t an ad hominem attack? That saying she represents a ‘return of the repressed; a ”return of repressed repression,” that she’s a “lacquered, conventionally feminine, ‘sexy’ yet authoritarian, provocative and castrating at exactly the same time,” aren’t ad hominem attacks?
Not really. Your attack on me was a good example of an ad hominem gesture: rather than dismantling my reading of what she seems to represent—and notice I say “represent,” which is different from what she “is”—you attacked me personally. I have no insight at all into what she is. But I think it’s clear what she represents, which is what politics is all about. She represents repression. “Do not have sex until you’re married” is literally a repressive statement: contain yourself, do not have sex. She represents the idea that sex is only for certain people in the culture—do you think she believes gays should be able to have sex? Follow out the logic. If gays can’t marry, and only married people are allowed to have sex, then fine, only the married can have sex. (I said nothing about children having sex, and have no idea why you’d assume that was a natural consequence of my position.)
This is the 21st century. Do you really want to tell Americans who can and can’t have sex?
Just to follow-up my last comment to Roberto—an introduction to Special Relativity for non-mathematicians can be found in Chapter 3 of Brian Greene’s The Fabric of the Cosmos. There he not only presents Einstein’s ideas but offers some of their philosophical implications.
David:
Most AIM commenters are not very interested in philosophical implications unless it confirms their existing beliefs. For example, the 800-pound gorilla of Todd Palin’s membership in the Alaska Independence Party is studiously ignored by AIM columnists and commenters who condoned AIM’s guilt-by-association attacks against Obama for HIS “anti-American” links.
Now that the shoe is on the other foot, and candidate Palin is also vulnerable to guilt-by-association attacks, AIM’s guilt-by-association attacks against Obama have curiously diminished. Gee whiz! Wonder why?
It seems suddenly apparent to right-wingers that a candidate’s association with an “anti-American” organization member does NOT necessarily radicalize the candidate. In fact, if the candidate happens to be the right-winger’s candidate, the anti-American association isn’t even worth examining.
“... Todd Palin’s membership in the Alaska Independence Party is studiously ignored by AIM columnists and commenters who condoned AIM’s guilt-by-association attacks against Obama for HIS “anti-American” links. ...”
That’s because AIP is an affiliate of the Constitution Party which many of the paleo-cons here subscribe to.
Mark, I see you are harping on the Alaska Independence Party thing again. After checking it out, I find out that this is all just an internet started scam by leftists to get to Sarah Palin, this time through her husband. You weazels will do anything, absolutely anything, to trash someone that lives a life of honor, but then you slime slinging dogs would not understand honor if it was hanging from your nose.
I would not normally waste my time even answering you, but I do not want anybody who normally comes on this site to think it may be true becasue nobody stood up against it. Do us all a favor, Mark, and take your lies and left spread rumors to another site. We are not gullible like the left is to believing anything because it is the current talking point of the Obamascamacamp.
I have often wondered what it is like to go through life lying so much your friends can not believe anything you say - maybe you would give us a seminar on this site Mark, on how you live with this? - you could call it something like: Anatomy of a Liar
To what extent is Sarah Palin “living a life of honor?” According to an overwhelming number of accounts she fired state employees on a whim, employed practices such as using her personal email for state business—which would get the lowliest civil servant fired—took earmarks, has been lying to crowds about the bridge to nowhere, charged rape victims for forensic kits, etc, etc, etc.
Why is this personal honorable? Because she’s an evangelical? Merely because of her strong religious beliefs? I suppose the 9/11 terrorists honorable too? They certainly had beliefs, which they died for. I don’t think you’d agree with that logic, and neither do I.
This whole website misses a basic premise of its own argument: On what grounds can you claim that your representations of Palin, or McCain, or Obama, or whatever, are “true?” You try to unmask the representations of the “liberal media,” while at the same moment ignoring the fact that Palin is simultaneously the CREATION of the McCain-Palin media machine—a fiction many of you lap up like dogs.
A truly critical approach would be aware of this at every moment, and would try to work through the problems of political representation. Instead, a number of people posting around here just celebrate an endless stream of kitsch (a phrase like “living a life of honor” is nothing other than sentimental kitsch, given that it ignores well-documented tendencies that are distinctly not honorable, such as lying).
Kitsch is one of the things that is killing our society. The people on these boards cry “kitsch” when bawling out environmentalists. They cry “kitsch” when they’re talking about “diversity.” And sometimes they’re right. Both sides offer their own brand of kitsch, and all of it is worthless.
But only the Right wants us to die for kitsch, which is a very unfortunate thing. They want us to march into war with sentimentalized versions of real ideas, with giant waving flags and tearful veterans. With artificial sunsets and swelling music. There’s a deep perversity in this. I would die for a real idea, but I won’t ask a single person to die for kitsch. This is the criminal thing. And when I hear Sarah Palin’s complex, questionable tenure summed up as a “living a life of honor” there’s kitsch somewhere brewing. And it stinks.
Brian Sullivan, whoops David Goodis, sorry same IP, different name:
You liberals just keep spreaded your manure about Palin, and because you do, Obama will not be the next President of the United States - and you can only blame yourselves. She had every right to fire her Chief of Public Safety, in fact she didn’t even need to have a reason, as they serve at the pleasure of the Governor. But in this case, he said he would keep a State Trooper that tazered a 10 year old kid, his own son, and he was fired for that reason. It is fact that the trooper did that, and it means absolutely nothing that the trooper was an ex brother in law.
And all money that comes from the federal government to a state is NOT an earmark. There are legitimate reasons for the federal government to fund certain things within Alaska, and it will be no surprise that Alaska should get more money per capita on many of these things due to its small population versus the large area that it covers. Those reasons would chiefly be roads, military and have to do with the movement of oil. There is a difference between and earmark that funds bull, and money that funds things a state needs because the feds have created the need.
Nothing yet has been found that Palin is not an honorable woman, only the unhonorable rumors and lies that come from you leftists - and so far you have been unsuccessful and it has blown up in you snake oil salesman’s faces. Now there may be some legitimate dirt, but so far NONE has been found, so you find you have to slime someone just because you disagree with their beliefs. And that makes you the lowest form of slime - lowly snakes can not slither as low as you slither.
And Kitsch is best shown in the example of Greek columns when you coronated The One and that silly hollywood backlot background as if he was some God from Mt Olympus.
The thing I find most interesting is that Obama says he converted from Islam to Christianity, and while I would normally have no reason not to believe him, I do find it suspect because the Islamofascists WANT him to be President, and one of the main tenets of Islam is that someone can not ever convert away from Islam, and if they do then they have to be slaughtered, and I have not heard one Muslim call for that, which tells me they may be in on the scam that he has not really converted and is really still a Muslim to worm his way into control over the most powerful nation on earth - a take over from within - a mole sort of????
JACK WROTE “Mark, I see you are harping on the Alaska Independence Party thing again. After checking it out, I find out that this is all just an internet started scam by leftists to get to Sarah Palin, this time through her husband. You weazels will do anything, absolutely anything, to trash someone that lives a life of honor, but then you slime slinging dogs would not understand honor if it was hanging from your nose.”
Is it your position that Todd Palin was never a member of the Alaska Independence Party?
A) “Thanks, but no thanks, for that bridge to nowhere.” An honorable lie, which she repeats at every stop.
B) Rape kits? The victim must pay for being victimized?
C) Are there legitimate reasons for using a personal email address other than hiding from subpoenas?
D) Only your truths are “true?” Why?
E) You actually believe Obama is a Muslim mole? That isn’t a Republican smear? How in the world could a claim like that even be substantiated? This sounds more like a paranoid fantasy than anything else.
F) Who the hell is Brian Sullivan?
And by the way I’m tired of being called a liberal on these boards, which I definitely am not. A liberal believes in the benign centrality of the State. One glance across these boards demonstrates that neither one of us believes the State’s influence is benign. I refuse to vote for McCain because he will continue to use our military for the purposes of spreading “Democracy,” i.e. McDonald’s and the capitalist homogenizing nightmare, across the planet.
“To ravage, to slaughter, to usurp under false titles, they call empire; and where they make a desert, they call it peace.” Tacitus
Beyond American infighting there is also the rest of the world. To wit, the UK Guardian:
“At first glance she seems to represent the triumph of the personal over the political. Her looks are remarked upon, her fashions critiqued. For supporters her status as a mother of five is touted as her greatest virtue. For others the Palin family is a source of sniping gossip. Her breezy, straight-talking style is hailed by admirers as a key to unlocking the vital support of the latest fad in polling demographics: Wal-Mart Moms. Others see it as a sign of a political ingenue possessing little in the way of sophistication beyond her background as a small town mayor.
“This is to overlook the substance of her beliefs. Palin represents an extreme form of conservatism. She is not just anti-abortion, she opposes abortion even in cases of rape or incest. And Palin supports the introduction of creationist ideas into the classroom, alongside evolution. She is sceptical of global warming, only recently accepting that human activities might play a role, flying in the face of vast bodies of scientific opinion - even the US government’s own advisers. She is pro-drilling for oil in environmentally sensitive areas in a world that needs to wean itself away from fossil fuels. Her grasp of foreign policy is limited to a series of hawkish and naive soundbites on Russia, terrorism and Iran.
“America has had eight years of a government that has held similar views. The result has been to put ideological and emotional distance between it and large parts of Europe, Asia and Latin America. Apart from isolationist Republicans, this is bad news both for America and the rest of us. America needs a friendlier world to do economic and political business. The world needs an America more in tune with its natural friends and allies.”
This last part is the most important. How will the McCain-Palin ticket deal diplomatically with the other countries on the planet? George Bush has been alientating enough.
David…it has been the Democrats hatred of the current Admin that has spread across the World. Yes, Bush has made some critical mistakes. He is not my favorite. But, you choose the most far left rag the EU has to offer, the Guardian. I don’t look for the Guardians acceptance nor the BBC for that matter, in picking our leaders. They want us to slip into socialism even more than you do. The one thing they don’t bank on is if Obama gets in and takes down America like we know he will do, then they are toast economically. Its a case of be careful what you wish for.
These arguments are always the same. Somehow the Democrats are to blame for the world’s hatred of George Bush. And the Democratic Congress is to blame for all the country’s current problems. And only Leftists and liberals in Europe are alientated by America’s “bomb it then pave it” policies. And now a Republican who voted alongside George Bush will save us from the policies of Democrats who’ve sat in Congress a total of two polarized years. Following this logic, I suppose the economic success of the Clinton years was primarily due to Republicans. I guess it stems ultimately from Reagan’s policies in the 80s, right?
Maybe Democrats should just go away. Maybe we should hand over the whole country to a single party (isn’t that what “change” for McCain really means?). Maybe that party should have as its emblems “Family,” “Life” and “Fear of the Other.” Maybe that party should have an authoritarian leader, and a sexually repressive ideology. Maybe that party should explain to the world that god commands their military.
I’ve seen so many of you refer to Leftists and liberals as “fascists,” but for anyone familiar with the actual policies of National Socialism in Germany—its stance on the family, for instance, or on gender roles, or the National Socialist view of abortion rights, or its take on sexual repression, or how the authoritarian family is the model of the State—you would see that these people seeem to have fallen directly from the pages of Mein Kampf. I’m being completely serious here. The only difference being that they’ll let you have guns.
And maybe the weirdest thing of all is this. For a while I’ve wondered if part of the rancor across Party lines stems from some sort of intergenerational conflict—the young vs. the old. Generation X vs. the Boomers, and older. Rebellious insouciance against the figure of the evil father. You get the picture.
While toying for fun with these Freudian ideas this morning it suddenly struck me: Palin’s nomination completes the entire Oedipal triangle. Here’s how we cast it: Daddy McCain, hot milf Palin and the rebellious young son Obama. All the makings of agonistic “family conflict.” No wonder people are so stirred up. Knowingly or not, the Republicans have inserted Oedipus into the process. All of us have been triangulated. All of us are on the couch. People are going to fight and fight and fight with this. They are going to either affirm family oppression or resist it. At some point I bet some commentator will even refer to Obama as “blind.” That will be the icing on the cake. This whole campaign is a psychoanalyst’s dream.
Julie,
It’s too easy to call the much deserved criticism of this President hatred. I have been accused of that when I simply find fault with his desire to fill this country with foreign invaders.
True some of it gets pretty rabid. If we are honest, it’s no different than it was with Pres. Clinton.
As for the rest of the world being upset with him. His policies have, in my opinion and evidently some of theirs, destabilized the world.
It has stirred up a honest’s nest in the ME and other countries’ will feel the sting and I’m thinking those friendly to the invasion already have - England and Spain comes to mind.
Yes, I think Obama is a very bad choice, McCain is a very bad choice. I just hope that McCain may be a little less bad. Perhaps his administration could give us a little time to get real and get together. From the talk on both sides of this election, I’m not holding my breathe.
We will allow this country to go away if we continue to think in terms of party, some perceived ideology. It doesn’t exist as far as these politicians are concerned. They have an entirely different agenda than what they are presenting and than OUR agenda for this country.
David,
<<<<I refuse to vote for McCain because he will continue to use our military for the purposes of spreading “Democracy,” i.e. McDonald’s and the capitalist homogenizing nightmare, across the planet.>>>>>
I think you hit the nail on the head. No one will ever convince me, and if this country remains free, we will know for sure , that the invasion of Iraq had not one, not one, thing to do with our ‘freedom’ or any perceived attack, militarily, from Iraq.
Again, I don’t think it was as simple and one-dimensional as oil.
From many sources, it seems we are not, in fact, running out of oil in this country or the world. That idea may very well be put out there to be able to keep the price up.
Believe me, if anyone in charge in this country actually thought we were running out of oil, we would be gearing up like crazy to produce alternative energy.
Sanctions were going to be lifted, Saddam was complying, no matter the things this country was doing to try to provoke him to get him to break the agreement. Such as the idea of sending in unmarked bombers to get him to fire at them.
These oil people, and oil companies who are global organizations, not America, this affected all of them. They did not want a Saddam in charge of one of the largest pools on the planet.
You can’t control the price of oil with that scenario.
Also, there was the banking, the water, the wheat and grain, AND the possibility for a huge, unfettered, military base in the ME. We were invited OUT of Saudia Arabia. Remember our great friends? Remember the country who actually had citizens involved in 9/11?
Israel certainly wants us to have a big base in the ME. Some of the planners of this war are decidedly pro-Israel - not just the garden variety many Americans are - but VERY pro-Israel.
Then, of course, you do have the possibility of the McDonalds, the Wal Marts, the sleazy entertainment we have in this country, being exported there.
Also, a country that has been bombed into submission, everything lost, is ripe for sweatshop exploitation.
What reason made this President go in, who knows. All the other factions certainly supported it. Many have much money - to buy media control, to buy PR people, to put on demonstrations, to buy flag wavers. To silence dissent.
David!!!
Oedipus? - You’re thinking too hard, maybe?
Yes, age, beauty, geography, hair color, regional accent, religion, race etc., does come into play - always has. This time you can add to the mixture, citizen/illegal.
This time, however, with the people, it’s party politics. The two parties are working overtime to be sure we do not ever actually have a discussion with each other about our views for this country.
Also, they are working overtime to court the illegal vote and it will have an affect on the party.
For them, it’s money and power. It’s just that simple. When you get that firmly in your mind, the scales will fall from your eyes, and things become very clear and rhetoric, bombast, masks, the charades, are all meaningless.
“... This sounds more like a paranoid fantasy than anything else. ...”
Ah, David, you’ve finally discovered the truth about Jack H. Hansen.
A paranoid schizophrenic who sees Brian Sullivan in every post he disagrees with; who goes into foul-mouth rants against anyone he disagrees with; who thinks he owns this site and tells everyone he disagrees with to “go back to DailyKOS;” who calls everyone he disagrees with a “liberal;”
In short, a certifiable nut-case who has nothing rational or reasonable to say.
ladytexan,
Sorry. I just love this idea. I think it’s kind of amusing. I don’t really take it seriously.
Depends on what you read and where you get it Lady Texan. I agree on most of what you say, but not on Saddam. There is too much evidence which is largely ignored, even by Bush. Uh..not ignored, but so suspiciously silent in not taking up for himself. Like, all the yellow cake, now being held in Canada I believe. No one, absolutely no one talks about the Bacca Valley. There is stuff we will never know. Saddam was far from clean and closer than we are being told. I am not going to argue any of this with the Davids or the others, but there is something really smelly about the whole thing. Yes yes yes…I do believe it was for oil, but not to steal it for ourselves. The terrorists were going to get a foothold in that Country, with Saddams help or without. They already had training grounds in the North. Iran was going to make sure of this. Think of Mookie (al sadr) The oil was up for grabs. It was a far more dangerous time than anyone knows. Look at Irans activity now. We just put a crimp in their style. I don’t buy the Democrats lie thing. They knew what they were doing. All of this is subterfuge. The last years of blasting Bush was to soften the public for a Democrat take over in the Presidency as well as the house and the Senate. They want complete control. This is not to say Bush was right in everything he did. Not at all. There is more to it and you do know that. I heard something this morning that sent a chill up my spine. Obama was reported to have asked Malaki to hold off on any agreements with this Administration until after the election. Is this a man that we under any circumstances want as President of our Country? Absolutely not! This is treasonous. I will vote for McCain no matter what.
In the Clinton years, he was forced into less taxes, and less spending, by a new Republican majority, and yes, the Republicans are responsible for the better economy in the Clinton years. Clinton vetoed constantly and the Congress just sent it to him again. In fact the economy could have been better in the Clinton years, but Republicans had to compromise with him to get the bills through.
We just had an anniversary of seven years since 9/11, and how soon you all forget. It is because we were not in their faces that they became bold and attacked us here. Now everyone whines that Bush as stirred up a hornet’s nest in the ME, and thank God for that, as we are fighting them there than here. We are after bin Ladin, the Taliban and al Queda. And all three are in Afghanistan and Iraq, and we ARE winning, no thanks to the left whatsoever, except the mavericks such as people like Lieberman. Obama says that we should just go across the Pakistan border and hunt Obama out in his cave. If any military man endorsed sending our troops into that ambush, I would think they are trying to kill American soldiers. Now the drones that are being sent in may have a chance, and we are taking a big chance going into Pakistan, supposedly our ally (though I disagree), and every time we cross that border we are committing an act of war against Pakistan, and Obama seems to be for that, while Bush and McCain are not against it, but believe in using a little less bravado while doing it.
We are in the tank for Israel? Are you insane! Condy Clueless on behalf of the US has sold out the Israelis repeatedly in trying to make peace with the Arabs and Palestinians, and every single time Israel has allowed this to happen, and their answer has always been that the nasty Palestinians continue to make war on them. There is no peace to be had there as the Arabs word has never been any good, their treaties are worthless, and their word will NEVER be good. The US has not aided Israel in that respect, and has only put them in a far inferior position than what they had in the first place. So those that blame the Jews for the ME problems are as clueless as Condy.
The Arabs are the problem folks, those that hate us and sent their people here to slaughter us. I say slaughter them before they slaughter us. And Obama wants to give these terrorists the same rights as Americans in our courts. I say, use one bullet and take care of the problem now and forever. A dead terrorist does not live to go back there and make war on us again.
David Goodis, anonymous, BlackHat and Brian Sullivan, nice try, but every third word out of Brian’s mouth has to do with people on this site as being paranoid and schizo, and how he does not use aliases, and then he finally told the truth for once and admitted he had posted here under numerous aliases - and was conducting some miltary social experiment on us nasty Conservatives - he admitted it.
Since you freely use words such as paranoid and schizo to shout down those you disagree with, with the goal of marginalizing what they have to say, just as Brian Sullivan has repeatedly done, and you argue in the same arrogant belittling tone that he does, it is NOT unreasonable for anyone to believe that you are all one and the same. And besides, whether you are different people, or all of you are just aliases of Brian does not matter. You are all cut from the same piece of cloth, you argue the same, and you deman and belittle the same, and that is why in return I treat YOU as you treat others.
I’ll admit I should continue to have stayed on the high road, but the demeaning attitude just pushed this man too far. You come from people that almost always use the low road in your arrogance. Yes, the correct thing would have been to stay on the high road and not allow you people to put me on the low road to answer you just as down and dirty as you speak to me. But sometimes a person has had to much and must answer such disdain with disdain.
And now, you can once again answer just exactly as I know you will, you will beat on me some more, and call me despicable names, demean, belittle, and try to intimidate me into shutting up. See, figuring out how you liberals operate is easy, as you are all the same. Okay, your turn, children, let it rip!
Julie,
I am coming from the knowledge that Saddam was our very own junk yard dog for many years. We had no problem with his atrocities, his viciousness, etc., when he was doing our bidding.
Every country in the world probably has terrorist training camps. We even have some in this country - they are called mosques. I don’t believe all of them are, but some of them for sure.
There are terrorist training camps in Mexico - Arab training camps. Mexico is definitely not our friend - yet we continue to give them and their citizens unlimited access to our country, our government and our pocketbooks.
We have to look at the contradictions in this.
Iraq could not have been the most dangerous country in the ME. Iraq’s oil had not been being pumped as much as the rest of the ME, it was if not on it’s knees, at least bowed, by sanctions. That made it an easy target and a desirable target.
What other country in the ME could we have put a big base? Kuwait isn’t big enough, Saudia Arabia threw us out - where?
Also, because of the fact of the sanctions and limited trade, and that Saddam had such a control, little foreign involvement, that country was ripe for rape and pillage by corporations.
Why did this President not close our borders and begin deporting illegals on 9/11? It was absolutely what any country in fear of terrorism would do and there was a call for it by the public. Actually, it’s what any sane country would do, terrorists or not. He knew we had, other than hispanics, as he knew the airport screeners were ME illegals. They worked at the very airport some of these attackers managed to get through. Rather than deport them, he made them federal employees.
It was a year after 9/11 that they got to checking out workers at some of the airports - large airports.
Why? If he was truly worried about terrorism from the ME?
Why Iraq? I could see Afghanistan if, and at this point I don’t doubt, Bin Laden was responsible. But why after bombing the mountains of Afghanistan and putting an oil consultant on the throne, did he suddenly decide Bin Laden was not an issue?
Suddenly Iraq - yes, Iraq is the key to the entire ME problem. It doesn’t wash. It just doesn’t.
Obama is dangerous, I truly believe. His asking Iraq to not make deals until he is elected is certainly something to ponder.
Since I believe the reason for our being there is less than altruistic, I don’t have to go much farther to believe that any deals that would be made at this late date, would be to solidify the financial and military holdings, rather than for the benefit of the Iraqis, or for the safety of this country and the world.
That doesn’t mean I think Obama is going to do any better.
Right now, ME terrorists are not our main problem. They aren’t even on the radar. It’s the illegal immigrants and Mexico’s control of them. I’m thinking they are going to have a great influence on this election and when given the vote, will control vast areas of this country, politically speaking. That means Mexico will control it, and with Mexico and China getting very friendly - making deals, etc - that is much more dangerous, more complete, and more permanent than ME terrorists.
Think of illegals (read that Mexico), having political control of the border, much of South Texas, cities like Dallas, Houston, and Ft Worth, and many smaller areas. It is a true possibility. That’s just Texas - think California. Both these states have a huge impact on the politics of this country - huge.
The terrorists might attack, we can survive. The illegals, Mexico, and seemingly our politicans, want us to be occupied and controlled by Mexico. That, we cannot survive.
I need some help.
I have a couple of times gotten messages that my post might be spam and must be checked by moderator first.
Why is this and what does it mean?
“... he finally told the truth for once and admitted he had posted here under numerous aliases ...” - more paranoid ranting from Jackass Hansen
“... Because you are unaware of what lies ahead of you, you are about to be smashed on your head - metaphorically - by a rod of iron.
And yet you worry about me blogging under a pseudonym, as if you and this website is of any import - save as useful for a psychological experiment of mine some weeks ago. (You see, I once was involved in the development of what the military calls psyops. I continue to consult on that. So, I dabble in it from time to time.) ...” Brian Sullivan in post #78 above.
While Sullivan’s statement is ambiguous, it is clearly also not an admission that he has in fact blogged under a pseudonym. Paranoid Jack of course interprets it thus in order to back his paranoid belief.
When the server or the network hosting it is busy, you’ll get various spurious error messages.
The one about spam checking is mostly from trying to post a link that contains odd characters (like a querry link with a bunch of question marks, plus signs, etc.)
Anon,
Thanks. I was beginning to feel ‘put upon’.
It’s happened twice. I don’t post links much, if ever. I’ll watch for the odd characters.
My computer has been wonky lately. Orange juice and laptops don’t mix too well.
LOL!
Were you drinking orange juice when you viewed Emperor Zero’s image? 
To David Goodis, Post 149;
I’m with you on Sarah Palin. She seems pretty simpleminded to me - - and appears to be a living caricature of the stereotyped, comedical, southern redneck politician (kitsch?) taken from Smokey and the Bandit or the Dukes of Hazzard. For me, her potential incompetency goes way beyond that of Bush II - - and he’s been the worst yet! Even Dan Quayle looks good next to Palin! Scary stuff.
CONFIRMATION OF TODD PALIN’S AIP MEMBERSHIP:
Since Jack Hansen is under the delusion that Todd Palin’s membership in the Alaska Independence Party is “just an internet started scam by leftists to get to Sarah Palin,” perhaps a reality check is in order. Todd Palin’s membership was CONFIRMED by both the director of the Alaska Division of Elections, and by the Alaska Independence Party itself:
“Todd Palin, Longtime Former AIP Member: Gail Fenumiai, director of the Alaska Division of Elections, tells ABC News that regardless of the impression given to members of the Alaskan Independence Party, “Gov. Sarah Palin first registered to vote in the state in May 1982 as a Republican, and she has not changed her party affiliate with the Division of Elections since that time.” That said, Fenumiai says that Palin’s husband Todd was a member of the AIP from October 1995 through July 2002, except for a few months in 2000. He is currently undeclared.” (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/the-alaska-divi.html)
“Todd Palin was registered as a member but never participated in any party activities aside from attending a convention in Wasilla at one time.” - Alaska Independence Party Website (http://www.akip.org/)
Wow! Right-wingers react violently to even posting an irrefutable link (Todd Palin) between candidate Palin and an anti-American organization (the AIP), whose founder “hated” the American government. Can you imagine a right-winger’s apoplexy if:
- A series of posts also suggested the candidate may have “anti-American” attitudes BECAUSE of the link?
- A series of posts then victimized the link by exaggerating the link’s “anti-American” attitudes through deliberate misrepresentation?
- In addition, the right-winger was RELATED to the victimized link?
The reaction would not be pretty!
In view of Jack Hansen’s abusive ad hominem atacks (“weazels,” “slime-slinging dogs”), perhaps an apology would be in order!
To Mark, Post #146:
Agreed. For every complaint that a rightwinger makes about Obama, a similar one can be generated by a leftwinger against Palin, thereby forever extending the ideological and partisan warfare known as “Us vs. Them”. And, frankly, if Obama is objectionable on this forum because he’s “too far left” - - any reasonable person making such a complaint would also have to realize that Palin is objectionable to exactly the same degree because she’s “too far right”. ALL extremists are bad.
To Julie O., Post #137:
The Hebrews in Jesus’ day were an extremely “conservative” society, religiously, socially and culturally - - and they were very strictly, both personally and collectively, constrained by these conservative conventions.
On the other hand, especially at the end of his life, Jesus became quite the opposite of his brethren - - challenging the existing conventional order of things. Hence, compared to his “conservative” peers - - he was most certainly “liberal”, both in his spoken word and in his deed - - and did teach and exemplify the concepts of acceptance, kindness, love and forgiveness.
However, too bad you and some of the other compulsive-obsessive conservative partisans who post on this forum don’t evidence some of the same “acceptance” and “kindness” of which you speak.
In fact, acceptance and kindness, in particular, are thought to be part and parcel of modern “liberal” philosophy.
And, with all due respect and in consideration of your failure to evidence even the slightest acquiescence to the spirit of The Golden Rule - - to paraphrase you - - you shouldn’t bring your hypocritical crud here - - and you’re no more of a Christian than was Josef Stalin.
Julie,
Most every country in the world has some terrorist traning camps. Whether we have any actual military camps in this country, I don’t know. We do have mosques that are preaching hatred and violence. To me, that’s the same.
Mexico did, says they no longer do, have Arab training camps. They have found leaflets along the border translating Arab to Spanish, suggesting they were coming in posing as Hispanics.
Why Iraq then?
Yes, Saddam was certainly at odds with this country. What caused that? Was it actually country to country - or something else?
Many countries in the world have weapons that could harm us greatly. After the fall of the USSR, they got distributed around the world.
So why Iraq?
So why are we supposed to fear terrorists above all else?
We have from 20-50 million illegals in this country. Most of them, in our part of the country and I believe elsewhere, are Mexican. These people will have, I believe, an effect on this election. When given amnesty, they will decide many elections in this country.
In Texas, they will be able to decide the elections along the border, and much of South Texas. They could decide the elections in Dallas, Houston, etc. Then there are the smaller towns where they are very heavy.
Think of California and what they could do there.
Two states that have tremendous effects on our election and government.
Think of the number of representatives, possibly a Senator (they are working on it in Texas now), and governors they could control. I should say that MEXICO can control.
Mexico and China are becoming very friendly, signing agreements, etc.
An attack by terrorists can be survived, we know that. A takeover by foreigners, we cannot. It will be permanent if either of these two men, and Pres. Bush has their way.
If and when anything is done to change the problem of the occupation and takeover of our government, it will be some horrible times for this country.
So terrorists are not our worst enemy - they just aren’t.
Assuming, however, this President really thought they were - what is/did he do about it?
Did he close the border to prevent terrorists coming in?
Did he begin deporting those here who should not be?
Did he even deport the baggage handlers he knew were ME illegals? No. He made them federal employees!
Did he even allow the Border Patrol to do their job?
Did he enforce our interior laws that would have made illegals leave on their own?
Did he go into Saudi Arabia, where the majority of the attackers came from, looking for other terrorists?
So what exactly did he do - He went half way around the world and attacked a country, if not on it’s knees - at least bowed by sanctions, that had nothing to do with 9/11.
It just happened to have oil that hadn’t been so depleted in the last 10 years, other industries and people to be exploited. It was a country where we could have a huge military base and a country we could invade and occupy.
Afghanistan offered the possibility of a base, as well, but it is a dirt poor country - nothing to pay off the corporations for their support. It did make it once again, safe for the poppy growers to export their own brand of death to our streets.
Except, maybe the construction of that pipeline through the mountains we bombed, before Bin Laden became unimportant.
Mark, no apology, I said you guys were making a mountain out of a mole hill and what you just presented confirms that I was correct. She has always been registered as a Republican, and he may have registered as part of the Independence Party, but except for a mini convention in the tiny town of Wasilla (pop 7,000), he has never been active, by your own post. One event in all that time, and that is a big thing to you, but Obama goes to a racist white-hating church for 20 years and that is no big deal to you. You should be ashamed.
And Mark, TK, anonymous, you are weazels. I knew you would attack like the snotty kids that you are and wahla - the little kids beat on me more. Immature, childish, and the nasty names and pschobabble again, just like Brian. It is not paranoia that all of you say the same thing and must demean those you hate by calling them despicable names - I just figure consider the source.
You weazels still can’t figure it out. You will lose in November because of your lies and hatred. Sorry, Roberto, it is just not easy taking the high road with these low road slitherers.
Lets see the logic here.
Gov. Sarah Palin first registered to vote in the state in May 1982 as a Republican, and she has not changed her party affiliate with the Division of Elections since that time.”
any reasonable person making such a complaint would also have to realize that Palin is objectionable to exactly the same degree because she’s “too far right”.
I thought it stated that Todd Palen was the registered member that never participated in any party activities.
Saying that Gov. Palen is an extremist based on the first two statements is not a tautalogy. Try again.
So why are we supposed to fear terrorists above all else?
We have from 20-50 million illegals in this country. Most of them, in our part of the country and I believe elsewhere, are Mexican. These people will have, I believe, an effect on this election. When given amnesty, they will decide many elections in this country.
In Texas, they will be able to decide the elections along the border, and much of South Texas. They could decide the elections in Dallas, Houston, etc. Then there are the smaller towns where they are very heavy.
Think of California and what they could do there.
Two states that have tremendous effects on our election and government.
I could get paranoid here.
I keep getting told I might be posting spam.
Can you get flagged?
Julie,
I’ll try again and make it short. I can’t seem to get my posts uploaded.
ME terrorists do not pose the threat that does illegal immigration.
They will have an effect on our election this time, and when given amnesty can control state and federal representatives, maybe senators (they are trying here in TExas), and governors.
They will be being controlled by Mexico.
A terrorist attack will be a nightmare, but survivable. We can come out of it. A takeover by foreigners, we cannot.
TK - acceptance and kindness, in particular, are thought to be part and parcel of modern “liberal” philosophy. YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING????? The liberals in America, and you who are posting on this site, are the most intolerant people that America has ever produced. And you attack ME, when all I do is answer you in the nasty tone you gave me FIRST? Man, do you actually think people can ever believe anything you ever say when every thing you say is probably just more lies?
From me you will get back exactly what you are shoveling. You give kindness, you will get kindness; you give hate, and hate is what you get in return. Immature children that you are.
When Obama loses in November because of his intolerant supporters, what are you going to do - hey, maybe you can put more masks on, and go through the streets of cities rioting and busting out storefronts - like you did in St Paul. Kids, can’t live with em, can’t shoot em.
Stating that Jesus would be a Liberal today is blasphemy TK. You want to keep on that track fine. It is your neck. One of these days pick up the Bible and read. You can call me anything you want, but I would really hold up on Jesus Christ if I were you.
LadyTexan - maybe because you are posting from an area who’s infrastructure is all messed up in the state has something to do with your posts? I have not got error messages! Maybe lines from your area are more overloaded because of the aftermath of Ike?
I agree with you on illegal immigration and that the Democrats are trying to make them all voters illegally for them, and they are invaders taking us over from within - but I see the terrorists as the same, and we do not know how many are REALLY among us, though if you lived in Detroit you might agree that it is as bad with terrorists as you can see in Texas it is with illegals?
Julie, you bring up something really interesting. And I say this purely as speculation, a thought experiment, which maybe will lead somewhere. What do you think would happen (and remember this is just a thought experiment, we have a certain freedom) if the global economy really did abandon its use of oil? Right now that seems impossible, I know—most of the things surrounding me at this minute are made from oil by-products. But how do you suppose that might shift geopolitical constellations?
(I’m not trying to imply that utopia will arrive, or that no one will ever go to war, etc. I’m just wondering what you—or anyone else in this forum—thinks about the political consequences of this possibility.)
ladytexan:
I’ll bet that criminal psychopath Brian Sullivan is diverting your posts.
Jack,
It could be mess up because of Ike. I am using Alltel.
You do see the problem with illegals - let’s go farther and understand that his is not, absolutely not, all due to the democrats.
If John McCain had had his way, they would all ready have amnesty.
If President Bush had had his way, they would already have amnesty. It was one of his first stated goals.
Pres. Bush has been the most vocal, supportive, protector of illegal immigration of any President in my lifetime.
I KNEW IT!!
David Boodis (BS in drag) is performing thought experiments! It just goes to prove that the criminal slimeball is still determined to disrupt our thoughtful and incisive commenting here!
BS Go back to DailyKOS with your other Obama ass-kissing buddies and stay the Hell off this site, or I’ll hunt you down and shoot you in the head!
Yes you are right, but not just because of the Mexican illegals that are slipping in, but because many of them coming through are ME. Then we have the MS 13 coming from South America. The borders must be closed and not just by a fence. What has aggravated me most about Bush is his laizzez faire attitude toward this problem and willingness to go along with Mexico and prosecuting our Border guards for doing their job. I am appalled at this aspect of his Administration. Johnny Sutton is the worst of the worst and needs to be prosecuted himself. My heart breaks for Ramos and Compeon. Being down here now and seeing this firsthand is what is shocking to me. I was raised in this State, and we are being taken over by the worst element you can imagine. Years ago, even those that were illegal were good and hard working immigrants. That is not what we have now. It looks like Mexico is purposefully pushing the criminals out of Mexico and over our borders. It has to be stopped.
Jack…they can’t help themselves. When TK called me a hypocrit…..now thats a laugh in itself.
NOTICE: I did not make the Posts #182 and #184, that is the leftists, speaking for me. Brian and his many manifestations, just here to create problems again. And I am the paranoid one - hahahaha - so very childish.
LadyTexan - I agree - Rs and Ds, and Bush, McCain, and the Democrats, and liberal Republicans, like Bush and McCain are when it comes to amnesty.
Jack & Julie:
I did not post that she was an extremist or that Todd Palin was active in the AIP. Please review the posts and stop exaggerating. That is intellectual dishonesty. Your straw men are easily blown away.
I actually rejected the extremist position when I posted (#146) “It seems suddenly apparent to right-wingers that a candidate’s association with an “anti-American” organization member does NOT necessarily radicalize the candidate.”
I posted that Todd Palin was a MEMBER of an anti-American organization. Jack responded “this is all just an internet started scam by leftists to get to Sarah Palin, this time through her husband.”
It is not an “internet scam.” It is the absolute truth. How about addressing the inconvenient truth that Todd Palin was a MEMBER of an anti-American organization????
Jack,
You are so funny.
Brevity might help. I’m kinda long winded.
WE are going to once again disagree on the ‘fighting them there, so we don’t fight them here’.
That sounds so good until you look at it in terms of what is really happening.
Terrorists strike terror,usually in civilian population, hence the name.
Why would they stay and fight our military, when they can simply cross the border and do their dirty work.
They don’t bring tanks, aircraft, etc. They use what is at hand. They picked up 4 big airliners before. It would not be difficult for them to find the supplies to harm a lot of people.
Our border is open, the entire world knows this. They have found training camps in Mexico, and Arab/Spanish dictionaries in the trash on the border.
So what’s stopping them? I don’t know, but my mind won’t stretch to think it’s because they simply want to confront the baddest soldiers on the planet.
We be id - e -uts! See guys, I can do it too. Grow up you pathetic children - go suck up to mama Obama like the good little minions that you are.
“TK - acceptance and kindness, in particular, are thought to be part and parcel of modern “liberal” philosophy. YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING????? The liberals in America, and you who are posting on this site, are the most intolerant people that America has ever produced. And you attack ME, when all I do is answer you in the nasty tone you gave me FIRST? Man, do you actually think people can ever believe anything you ever say when every thing you say is probably just more lies?
“From me you will get back exactly what you are shoveling. You give kindness, you will get kindness; you give hate, and hate is what you get in return. Immature children that you are.
“When Obama loses in November because of his intolerant supporters, what are you going to do - hey, maybe you can put more masks on, and go through the streets of cities rioting and busting out storefronts - like you did in St Paul. Kids, can’t live with em, can’t shoot em.”
Honestly, Jack, I’m new to these discussions, but I think you really earn your bad press.
It’s worth pointing out that the main thing “liberals” and “Leftists” have a hard time tolerating is the intolerance they (sometimes correctly, sometimes not) perceive on the Right (a high number of Obama critics I’ve spoken to tell me point blank that they have perfectly sane reasons to hate black people). It’s a little perverse to ask for tolerance of intolerance.
I’ve also noticed that conservatives have adapted a lot of language from Leftist academia (the AIM homepage talks about the practice of “deconstruction”), not to mention Marxist analysis (the notion of “ruling elites” was his preoccupation); and now Jack complains that he’s “marginalized,” which is an outright joke when you consider the number of ironies involved.
David…why do we need the experiment at all. Just what is wrong with the use of oil. We have plenty of our own. Anwr is not a pristine paradise. That is left wing loony propaganda. The pretty photos they show are not Anwr. It is a tool. Do you want to do away with life saving gadgets that can keep your ticker humming? Our whole infrastructure depends on oil. Pavement? Everything we use David. Yeah you were looking around. Are you ready to sacrifice? Why do we have to stop right now, this very minute and go into the stone ages? Because Albore thinks so? Because the Messiah, The ONE believes he has the answer in ten years. Yeah…This is so silly it boggles my mind. We have enough resourses right here in this Country that we should never ever depend on foreign oil. But, who is holding up the works. I will let you answer that one. Frankly David, I was raised in Texas, I like black gold.
Jack, try some decaf. A “thought experiment,” like the one I’m suggesting, is just a way to creatively think through problems without having to do them in the real world. The notion comes from physics.
Lady Texan, I agree that the terrorists of Iraq are not wanting to screw with the US Soldier any longer there, and that is why they hide in the Mts od Pakistan, and why they have returned to Afghanistan to once again bring terror there. The problem is we can move troops from Iraq to Afghan, and then they get hit by us and return to Iraq. That’s how they got into Iraq in the first place. They lost to us in Afghan, and went to hide in Iraq, but then committed terrorism there and we hit em again. Saddam was baby-sitting them to the detrement of his own people, but then Saddam never cared what happened to Iraqi’s, only his close Baathists.
And yes, our wide open southern border, thanks to Clinton and Bush, and amnesty supporters like McCain and the Democrats, is how they can get here, just like the illegals. How many illegals we got, if the government says 14 to 20 million it is probably double that? How many terrorists in America - who knows, but people of Michigan probably think it is quite high when they have to live amongst these monsters?
Mark,
You are really tiresome with this topic. Now I know why Jack blew up at you some while back. You are trying so hard to turn this apple into a pear. I doesn’t work. Obama spent twenty years in a church with a Pastor that preaches hate against the Country that feeds him and teaches hate against White people with Black Liberation Theology. He was a FULL FLEDGED MEMBER THAT ATTENDED SERVICES FOR 20 YEARS. HE AND MICHELLE WERE MARRIED BY THE MAN AND WRIGHT BAPTISED HIS CHILDREN. Todd Palen was a member and never attended any meetings or events. This is a molehill Mark not a Mountain. Give it up, it is old.
Well, for one thing oil is a finite resource. Even in the oil industry, people are starting to talk about “peak oil”—it’s no longer just a fringe idea. Maybe you’ve heard of this, and maybe you haven’t. If you have, please bear with me a minute. Peak oil is the reality of “peaking” oil production—that is, the point where you’ve gotten as much as possible from one area, the production has finally “peaked,” and from that point on the area slowly goes dry.
Now, at some point in the future global oil production will certainly peak—there are only so many fossils to go around—and attention will have to be turned somewhere else.
Come on Goodis, stop the lies, you are not a new poster here, we are not idiots - we have been listening to you under different names for weeks. You make too many mistakes between your manifestations. Every regular poster here can see it, why can’t you just admit it? Maybe that is why LIberals and Liars both start with an “L”? Just where you will probably go -straight to L?
David,
More people, I’m convinced, will vote for Obama because he is black than not vote for him because he is black. Race is one of the few things he has going for him and he is using it.
As far as having reasons to hate blacks, of course that is wrong, if you are talking as a whole.
If you are talking the race-baiting, rabble rousers, of the ilk of the Revs Jesse and Sharpton and the people who preach hate like the Rev. Louis and Obama’s minister, there might be some reason for, at least, dislike or disdain or resentment.
During the Civil Rights era, that was anything but civil and certainly not right, white people lost their jobs, were not hired, had their businesses fined, were baited on a constant basis. People’s lives were ruined when they had done nothing, but be white. It was much like the witchhunts - except there were many more victims.
My husband was not hire and was hired for the same job because of affirmative action. True.
Other than the ones I mentioned, the resentment should be for the politicians - not the people.
Racial resentment was becoming a thing of the past - until Obama brought it to the forefront. He has opened a box best left closed. He has fanned the flame once again. Whether he gets elected or not, I think we are in for some sad times with race in this country.
That is despicable, I think.
David Goodis/BS in drag:
Sullivan you criminal liar!!!!!!!!!!!!! You malignant bastard, you race baiting criminal, you worthless despicable man, you and worthless human garbage like you ARE the reason Obama can NEVER be President. Go kiss the ass of your buddies Jackson, Sharpton, and that Muslim racist - you low life.
I am so fu**ing tired of you on this site, go back to the haters at Daily KOS and get the F**K off this site - slimeball.
David Goodis/BS
It is typical of the liberal to cast the first stone, especially after the despicable words out of your mouth. Conservatives do not like to be told what is acceptable PC speech and what is NOT accepted PC speech - it is an authoritarian state that tells its people what to say and what not to say - and the typical Conservative will then deliberately use the NON PC language.
Another false assumption, Julie. My analogy had nothing to do with Wright. It would be nice if folks addressed the actual points made rather than such imaginary straw men.
Hahahahahaha - yes, I have wondered what happened to Mark, Mark D and Mark (K******** some Hawaiian word) Davis? Do you suppose Brian is also a cannibal? Wouldn’t surprise me, he does everything else, knows all, and could even actually walk on water, I suppose, if one listens to his puffing!
Julie,
Yes, illegals from Mexico has always been a part of Texas. This is something far different.
ME terrorists are not the big problem, they really, really aren’t. We won’t realize that until we begin to see Mexico pulling the strings of our politicians - more than they do now.
Jack,
Now we are still fighting someone in Iraq, who is that?
Truly, I have heard no official, semi-official, talk about terrorists in Iraq - except camps there years ago, back when he was our buddy. Except for his giving money to the Palestinians, I haven’t heard he has done anything lately. In fact, I have heard just the opposite.
Yes, he is a ME person and certainly his sympathies would be with them. That’s true of any ME country.
Might that be similar to what the admnistration did concerning Saddam’s responsibility in 9/11?
The administration kept saying they had to fight Saddam - because we remember 9/11. They were very careful to not say he had anything to do with it. They just let the people put 2 & 2 together and come up with 4 1/2 in this.
One poll I saw said that 50% of the American people believed Saddam had something to do with 9/11. The administration never said that, just led many to that conclusion.
Even if 99.9999% of those fighting our troops are Al Queda or terrorists of some ilk, surely they could spare a dozen to come here. A dozen could do more to this country in a matter of weeks, than years of fighting there.
If, in fact, they hate us ‘for our freedoms’.
Then how many different ways do you want me to say….Mark it is a stoooopid argument against Palen? No, it doesn’t make a padiddly damn if he was a fifteen minute member of a anti-guvment group. I have been anti-guvment for sometime now. It is not anti-american as you stated incorrectly. You are the one with a straw argument. get it?
Go get ‘em Julie.
I always considered the founding fathers anti-government - at least anti-central government.
Dave,
That sounds like a good discussion. I’d have to think on that. Most of the other stuff we discuss, I’ve been hashing around for some time.
I’m reading a book now about the 18 year old wonder kid who worked on the Manhattan Project and was also the one who gave the plans to the Russians.
It seems they all thought there was great potential for using atomic, nuclear power for peaceful needs.
We might all quit fighting over the ME.
Israel will still be resented, though.
Jack, first of all, you really do have me confused with somebody else. I only dropped by this website to see if I could understand people on the other side of the political divide. Yes, at first, I was amazed by some of the claims here; and yes, I dropped a provocative post about Sarah Palin, but after a while I realized that it was way more valuable to listen to people and try to communicate. If you notice a number of my posts to ladytexan consist of actual conversation. She and I seem to have been able to share some common ideas, which I like. I’m happy to talk with her. We’ll vote for different people, but in the end we see many of the same problems affecting the culture—we just have different solutions.
You on the other hand simply amaze me. You love playing the role of “gun-toting paranoid,” and the performance is extremely well-nuanced. You obviously do a lot of reading, but you have nothing but invective and bile to share with your “enemies.” Whether this reflects the real “Jack Hansen” is something else entirely—maybe you’re the real Brian Sullivan? Who knows.
Thats Good - after the social experimenting that Brian Sullivan has put us through, and the many many manifestations that he has posted under, that you suggest maybe I am the Major Doctor Brian R Sullivan, PhD, is hilarious. But I get your point.
I did note your conversation with LadyTexan, and the civilness of it, and if you check back on the posts, I noted it. I do not known all the different names that Sullivan posts under, though I know a few, and you came on this site (and I remember when you first posted) after I was last apprized of the posting names attributed to his IP.
So I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and take your word that you are not one of his manifestations. I’ll lay off if you lay off. Fair? I’ll forget what you said to get me going after you, and you forget what I said in return to your earlier way of doing things before you “decided” to start being civil!
ladytexan,
Interesting . . . You know, you might be like a book by the French writer Paul Virilio. He’s a Christian, an architect, and a theorist of technology. The book is called “The Original Accident,” and he discusses the idea that whenever you invent a new form of technology, you also invent a corresponding ACCIDENT. He makes his case over the course of about 100 pages, pointing out that in the 20th century one sees an acceleration of man-made accidents (the Titanic, the Hindenberg, Chernobyl, etc), each one growing worse each time. (He argues that the Manhattan Project inevitably to the accident of atomic devastation, for instance.) This isn’t an apocalyptic text, however, since he says that in the accident no “beyond” is revealed. He suggests that the notions of “war” and “accident” have suddenly merged, given the experience of 9/11, which was a preconceived “air accident” involving passenger jets. All of this leads him to contemplate the arrival of an integrated world economy, along with its own corresponding and terminal accident. It’s a quick, fascinating read.
David I can understand why Jack sometimes believes that you are BS. If you will go back to some earlier post when Brian Sullivan was playing his games, you will see what he means. It was not a fun exchange between Sullivan and any of us. I for one, hate intellectual gotcha games, parsing words, taking apart sentences. Blackhat, BS, TK were all taking part. They all had the same IP address. I am not really sure about TK but the others did.
Some of these latest post are not Jacks. They are someone using Jacks name.
Your posts are very professorial in content. So were Brians, but full of ab hominem attacks and innuedo. He also went on forever on his accomplishment with excessive bravado. The man was a boor. This is a conservative site with conservative commenters for the most part. Trolls playing games do not end up enjoyable.
For energy purposes using other forms such as nuclear, limited wind power and solar are fine. But, I see no reason at all to rid ourselves of those items that have become necessities in life. I would like to return to glass and get rid of styrofoam. I say limited wind power. Have you seen West Texas lately. It is an eye sore. It is more than that. It kills birds all the time. What happened to the ecologists there?
We do not like Obama because he comes from out of nowhere. He has very questionable lifelong relationships. He was and still is a student of Saul Alinsky and his accomplishes are few. For goodness sakes, present is not a vote. He has rarely voted in the Illinois Senate or his brief time as a U.S. Senator. Where does he get off saying he has more experience than Palen? This is a rediculous state that we find ourselves in. To me, Obama is a plant being used to change our Country into something it was never intended to be. If implimented now, his economic plans would devastate this Country even more than it is being devastated currently. Do I like McCain and his Amnesty plans? Hell no. But I will take that over something I fear more…Communism. And, I do believe that is where we are headed. I am not calling him names. He frightens the slop out of me. Did you hear Michele Obama’s speech in Puerto Rico? If you did not, try to find it and listen for yourself.
Thanks, Jack. I really have become interested in what the people on this board have to say. And I have to admit that now when I watch TV—which is a rarity, I’ll tell you—I do see the ways in which the conservative position is vilified and reduced to parody. I do get your point. I only hope that talking a bit with a Left-leaning professor unsnarls some of the stereotypes on this side. I rarely talk politics in my classes, and only if students want to; I don’t teach political texts; I mainly teach the classics of the Western tradition; I don’t want to take your guns away—though I do respect bow hunters more—and I have a high degree of respect for students of mine who’ve seen action overseas (if it weren’t my respect for them and their sacrifices, Jack, I wouldn’t be as concerned as I am about the ambiguity of the Iraq war; it wouldn’t touch me so closely; but I see these kids every single day). Since you’ve read through my posts to ladytexan you’ll see where we share common ground.
..uh.. Hmmm—this Hansen is ..uh.. really off his nut!
I ..uh.. could certainly use more ..uh.. minions like him. My worshipers over at the DUmp can use all the help they can get to ensure my glorious anointment on January 20, 2009.
I ..uh.. wonder how I can ..uh.. turn him? I’ll ..uh.. just have to issue ..uh.. ..uh.. instructions to my Praetorian ..uh.. Guard to pick him up early and ..uh.. deliver him to the correct ..uh.. ..uh.. re-educator in my camps.
A left-leaning professor of English Lit? Oh, boy, my U S History mentor and Poly Sci Prof would have loved this? Western Classics such as from antiquity or later from the Romantic/Reformation type era?
I do not necessarily puff like Sullivan but so you as a prof understand where I come from, I have two BAs in the subjects listed above, and an MA in U S History. I graduated from an Honors College, and am a Phi Beta Kappa. I started college as a somewhat liberal-Democrat, coming from five generations of Democrats, and ended firmly in the Conservative camp, though nominally a Republican until the past couple years when I went Independent.
I am a Vietnam Vet, taking two bullets as the Navy evacuated Saigon in its final days. And if you have been a left-leaning prof since those days then you know how we were treated when we returned - I am resolved that that will not happen to Iraqi-Afghanistan Vets.
Another baseless presumption, Julie. I never used Todd Palin’s membership in the AIP as an argument “against” Sara Palin. Of course it would be a “stooopid” argument against Palin, just as a mere link between Obama and someone who was a member of an anti-American organization is a “stoooopid” argument against Obama. My point, which seems to have been lost in your and Jack’s firestorm of presumption, is that such a link is INSUFFICIENT.
I made that point in #171 and other posts, but you still seem to ignore it. A link to an anti-American organization is only an argument AGAINST a candidate if you argue that the candidate has anti-American attitudes BECAUSE of the link, as AIM has done based on Obama’s association with CPUSA member Frank Marshall Davis!
I challenge Jack to identify any “lie” (#148) I posted. As always, it would be nice if you responded to what I ACTUALLY posted rather than to your speculation regarding the implications of what I posted.
Is it YOUR position that the Alaska Independence Party is NOT anti-American? As posted in #70, the American Heritage dictionary defines “Anti-American” as “Opposed or hostile to the government, official policies, or people of the United States.” The AIP is opposed to the government and official policies of the United States, and therefore meets the definition of “anti-American.” Jack tap-danced on the issue, by saying that since the AIP is not opposed or hostile to the PEOPLE of the United States, it is not “anti-American.” Rather disingenuous, at best!
And sorry, I forgot to list - emperor zero - as another manifestation of BS. He has had so many that it really is getting hard to keep track. Read his post, a couple up, and decide whether this god (BS in his own mind) is the wacko, or if everyone else is wacko on this site that are Conservatives?
Julie, I get it. I can grasp what you’re saying here. It’s very difficult to understand where exactly Obama comes from, and where he wants to go. I’ve never been able to quite figure it out myself, and I spend my life trying to figure things out.
Democrats share the same fears about Sarah Palin—she comes up suddenly, and there are a lot of questions swirling around her. I put this down in some ways to what Paul Virilio says about speed—that it distorts information. She appeared so quickly, the information about her became garbled—where did she sell the plane, was she in Iraq, etc—she’s hard to see clearly. Maybe some of the ill confidence can be put down to the velocity of her arrival. If you combine that with her radically Right-leaning politics, it’s easy to see why Democrats are scared of her.
To Julie O., Post #208:
Re: Your comment as follows:
“Blackhat, BS, TK were all taking part. They all had the same IP address. I am not really sure about TK but the others did.”
You can engage in never-ending speculation ‘til your heart’s content, however, I, TK, do NOT have the same IP address as “Blackhat” and “BS” - - I have no connection to them - - and I was NOT “taking part” in anything with them.
I am a long-time registered Independent who is a true Christian believer and a cultural and political “Traditionalist” - - and, at this time, I find none of the four major current candidates particularly appealing nor particularly-suited to solving all of our current problems - - ESPECIALLY Sarah Palin.
A left-leaning English professor is no rarity, I know. But yes, I teach epic tradition (the Gilgamesh to Dante, plus Milton) and poetry from the Romantic era to the present. I’m also interested in Continental Philosophy.
I think the main way my political stance plays out in the classroom is my approach to teaching, which I guess is really anti-authoritarian. I don’t ever want my students to be passive absorbers of information—so I involve them in projects where they have to take an active role and think for themselves. My place in the process is mainly just as a facilitator who asks questions that provoke more thought.
I happen to live in an area pretty much devastated by the loss of the single company that powered the town. The kids here are desolate. There’s nothing for them to do. There’s no culture; no actvity; even most of the films up for Academy Awards don’t play here. Racism is rampant. A lot of the kids become addicts. Most of the population is gone. And I show up like some ambassador from another planet where there are things like philosophy and art. Giving these students the means to think and make things for themselves is rewarding; but the economic vacuum just yawns.
And I’ll tell you, Jack: the former soldiers who’ve come to my class are some of my best students. I love having them there (especially one guy, a long-time sniper who was part of our campus discussion of the Iliad).
Radically Right-Leaning Politics - and that is where we see differently. I see her as a “traditionalist” like myself. Thirty years ago, the majority, large majority of Americans thought as she does today, and as I still do. Doesn’t mean I or her have not had any changing thinking over the years, but it does mean that a significant number of Americans have changed how they believe in basic tenets over the years, and some have changed so far that they see those that are traditionalists as kooks - or radically right-leaning. So now you may see where I see leftists as the radicals, as they hilariously see me as the radical. I didn’t change my thinking, hardly, so how did my thinking as I always have go from really mainstream to really radical right-leaning over not a lot of number of years? Yet, those that did all the changing in thinking, who see themselves as mainstream today (which they are not), think I am the radical?
As a prof certainly you can see the argument?
Now, I can understand that Democrats can fear Sarah Palin, as all people tend to fear the unknown. But we have had near two years to try to find out about Obama, and the press has every step of the way worked overtime to obscure him from voters that need to know - and he is running for Pres. Yet, overnite they are telling us what Palin is all about, and they are telling us this in the couple days after she was announced and they did not know jack about her (they lied and tried to twist with the purpose to make her look bad).
I have learned in just the last couple weeks quit a bit about Sarah Palin - and she is only the VP selection, not the Prez. Most I have learned has proved false because it came from the left and later facts showed that they had lied. Yet I have learned more in these few weeks then I have learned about Obama in 2 years. And I see the leftist MSM lying as normal so when I try to get info from other sources, the left is there yelling also. What is it about this man, that the left from top to bottom is trying to hide, as it seems to be a well-organized concerted effort to keep Americans ignorant. NO wonder WE fear this man!
Now I am learning something. Thank you Jack and David for the excellent post. Warms my heart.
I have friends that teach college. They were all my age when I went back to college in the eighties when my kids were not so little. We have nothing in common. All of them have gone so far left, I don’t understand anything they believe. One, fifty years old goes on to Daily Kos and cusses and spews like a kid. She is a brilliant scientist. What happened to her. The rage is incredible. My daughter is a Veterinarian. She started going with me to college when she was 15 years old. They tutored her in chemistry. When she finished vet school my friends could not believe that as a scientist she could be a Christian. How terribly sad. For me I feel like Max Planck, the father of Quantum Physics. With him, his learned mind found so much he concluded there had to be intellilgent design. But, my friends decided she must be out of her mind. It is so much more than politics that divide us David. Our beliefs are being threatened. There are laws being brought forth that could end up making certain thought illegal. The homosexuals are asking for more and more laws that threaten our freedom of expressing our faith, no matter how innocent. We are so afraid that once the far left get control over everything we will lose everything. I am a gun owner. I have been since the eighties when I became a single Mom. I can not imagine not having the right to protect myself in my own home. It is in their agenda.
There is so much that causes the division..look at the egging I am getting from TK and Mark right now. Geez guys…get it straight. TK, make up your mind. Either you are Liberal, which most of the time you sound liberal, or you aren’t. Sometimes you are a Christian then you aren’t. Go back and read your post. I don’t have the time. Mark….what can I say? You are straining a gnat.
David ..uh.. darling, here’s where I ..uh.. want to go…
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/democrats-infiltrate-gop-conventions/#38
I’ll graciously ..uh.. provide another link to my image if there’s any ..uh.. doubt that I AM THE ONE!!
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/democrats-infiltrate-gop-conventions/#13
I can see the argument. I hear you. Obama definitely remains a mystery.
And yes, it must be a strange experience to go from “traditional” or “mainstream” to “the far Right” (the effect of cultural velocity?). Things have definitely shifted. The fact that I teach Homer or Dante or Wordsworth at all makes me a conservative dinosaur to most of my colleagues. I may as well be a Nazi. Isn’t that one hilarious? All of this crap is scrambled.
I have to say that my own “Leftist” tendencies are mainly my awareness of the devastating effects of capitalism on world cultures, not to mention the environment. There seems to be no outside to the world created by integrated world capitalism—and everything, suddenly, is merchandise. Even the most intimate, microsexual activity is merchandise. A net has been cast over every zone. These are the things I worry about. Authenticity, an outside, a space of freedom, the creation of identities that aren’t just consumer groups. Maybe that seems abstract, I don’t know. But when Obama put the logo on the tail of his plane, I didn’t think he was unamerican, I thought he now was a “brand.” And that scared me.
David,
I will keep that book in mind.
My fear of Obama is much as Julie’s, although I am only a sliver less fearful of McCain. My real fear is the entire congress.
Going back decades, but it has accelerated in this administration, we are fast loosing our country. I’m thinking McCain might give some thought to slowing down the destruction and we will have time to convince others it is coming.
I think Obama will pound that last nail in the coffin in a NY minute. I base my fear on the attitude of the media - from day one. Also, those hairs on the back of my neck that are standing up and the little shiver down my spine.
There is some reason they are supporting him. I don’t know what or who is backing him, but it’s scary - to me.
I do think from what I have real, that Ms. Obama has a real disdain for this country and white people, as a whole. That leads me to believe her husband does as well, or he would have her gagged a long time ago.
That kind of talk would be unacceptable even to the media, from any other spouse.
No one wants the same treatment to be given returning Iraqi soldiers as the Vietnam vets received, I’m hoping and believing. Just because some of us believe the war is being fought for the wrong reasons, doesn’t mean we don’t respect and care the soldiers. They are doing what soldiers are supposed to do.
It is our job to make sure anytime we ask them to put ther lives on the line and to take the lives of other human beings, it is in the best interest of this country. We have failed them miserably.
But hey, the entire nation has seemingly focused on Ms Palin and the number of children she has, etc. What do you think might be going on - besides the Wall Street problems and some folk’s retirements going out the window.
Philosophy, Poetry, and Milton, and if all three are from the “dead” white men you are an antiquity yourself, and may be more radical in academia than I am as a traditionalist in politics and culture. The school you teach sounds like it could be small though if they were a one big industry town?
You mentioned racism in the school. It is my experience in modern America that the true racists are coming from the left. While those with traditionalist or Conservative beliefs are constantly called racists, all racist thoughts and beliefs I see come from the very people that say they are against it. Obama’s church, his former pastor?, the race-baiters are all black, and on this site the only ones that start talking in racial terms are those claming us for being racists and we have not said a thing racist.
I think those from the left are so taught that only we kind of people are racist that they just think we are when we are not. Sure there are skin-heads and hicks that live in the 50’s, but that is not anything what the Conservatives are about even though we waste our times trying to explain this to closed minds. Yet, those that sound racist to me are the very ones supposedly against it. If Obama is worried about racists not voting for him because of his color he needs to talk with his own camp and not the people who will vote against him because we can not stomach his politics - I could care less about his color.
But lets look at this and put it in perspective? If Sarah Palin was black, I will bet that she would still get slammed by the left as nastily as she is right now, and the racial hate would be the worst of it - this is all about political philosophy and that is why racism and sexism, supposedly important in the PC world of the liberal, becomes NON important when they hate for ones politics.
So I am surprised when you say that racism is rampant in an academic setting - is it that left-leaning settings are becoming racist, or are these mostly poor people of the community mainly traditionalist in their beliefs and therefore are labelled as racists by the left,a dn if the color divide is black-white, are the blacks ala from a Reverend Wright type of setting and they just have a big chip on their shoulders are still believ whitey still owes them something when the only people still paying for past racism are the whites whether they were part of it or not. I know many racist blacks can not see their racial hate, but a lot of white people saw it in Obama’s church all over media that had the balls to cover it, and if he lost votes because of race, it was his own doing and his relationship with people that ARE racists.
Jack H Hansen you are a liar! I remember you from the Navy. Why don’t you tell people how you came to “take two bullets” during your service, Mr Barney Fife?
Twirling a .45 around like a cowboy, one hit you in the foot and the other hit you in the groin after you dropped the piece and it discharged (fortunately for those of us who were standing around watching). I never laughed so hard in my life!
Is it fair to say that anyone who would object to their daughter marrying a person from another race is a “racist”? What percentage of Americans fall into that category?
Mike,
Wonder why you pose it as a white/black, not black/white?
That’s kinda telling, isn’t it? Surely you don’t think only white people can be racist.
That reminds me of back some years ago, the question was ‘When was the last time you had a black person to dinner?’
Whatever you answered, unless it was last night or yesterday, you got a smirk.
To tell you have fair-minded I am - my daughter married a Ya-ankee!!
Mike,
I am so sorry, and so ashamed. I’m the one who read wrong.
I’m hanging my head in shame, crawling out of the room and going to stand in the corner for the rest of the night.
Forgive me -
But no, I don’t think it’s racist. Marriage is hard enough without adding outside problems - but love does trump all.
No ethnicities were “posed,” Ladytexan. The question is valid when the groups are Indian/Korean, Mexican/Afghani, or whatever.
Egadssssssssssss get a rope.
I dragged a yankee down here from Georgia. I was a yankee racist too until I found him. Then I had to take him back to Texas. I bought him a belt buckle and some boots. Its ok now. He really likes big sky now. My family lies about his roots tho…some things are better kept secret.
Mike,
I caught my mistake and have apologized. I’m embarrassed and was going to slink off, but I’ll stay and take all the tomatoes you want to throw.
That is what happens when you aren’t paying attention.
Julie,
That’s funny.
My SIL is a sweetie. He doesn’t understand us a whole lot, but he loves us and we love him.
Most of all, he loves my daughter.
“... the devastating effects of capitalism on world cultures ...”
Yes indeed, David. Humans are becoming rational traders rather than tribal barbarians. The hyphenated-American phenomenon and “diversity” drivel is just a blatant attempt by the anti-rationalists to resurrect tribalism.
Increasing government meddling in the economies of the “free developed” world are indeed a shift toward Fascism. We must take back economic power from government if we are to remain free individuals.
Yup, I do seem to be out of touch a little in the academic setting. I still believe in art.
Actually I meant that racism was rampant in the town, rather than at the school. A number of local whites around here hate the blacks. And vice-versa. It’s equal opportunity hatred. Actually I’m beginning to think that the white hatred for blacks in my area really is a way for the whites to talk about poverty, that is, poverty that strikes both races but is only visible, in the whites’ eyes, as a uniquely “black” problem. It’s kind of amazing. White racists here will tell you that there isn’t nearly the same amount of white poverty, when that fact is obvious—there might even be more. You just have to look around. So it’s some kind of scapegoating, I think. Meanwhile the black people who hate whites just seem like they’re watching their backs.
This is obviously a huge problem all over the country. Poverty is one of the things that ends up feeding into existing racial discord. I know there’s rancor against white people in the black community (just listen to Chris Rock—he does a whole bit about it), and this probably won’t come to an end soon. Something occurred to me about this just the other day. Let me see if I can frame my thoughts about it.
Now, I know white people don’t want to hear another single word about slavery. Sure, I get that. But I wonder if there’s ever been a study of the course of an enslaved people after they’re released into the culture. Plenty of civilizations have held slaves, but I’m wondering how long one continues to see the effects of that situation ripple through the society. The most obvious example of a slave-holding situation that remains present in cultural memory, informing its practices, observances, and language, is when Pharoah held his Hebrew slaves in Egypt. This is of course an extraordinary case. But economic arrangements (and black slavery in America was certainly an economic arrangement) always come with their own series of legal, linguistic and affective formations whose presence can continue long after the original situation is dissolved. (If I weren’t tired I could probably cite examples that are less controversial than slavery.) In other words, it’s very difficult to know just how long those practices will continue to exert an effect on the culture, or on the people of the culture—black or white. How long will people be upset? I don’t know. How long will the memory last? Could be two thousand years.
Here’s another way to look at what I’m saying. If you’re asking black people to get over the fact of their subjugation, you have to recall that we really don’t have anything to compare their experience to. You can’t look to an immigrant group, or a first-generation group, or anything other than another enslaved group, in a situation resembling the one we have in America. Like one of my favorite philosophers, Ludwig Wittgenstein, says, it’s like saying, “I know just how tall I am,” and then putting your hand on your own head to prove it. So it might be impossible to say “get over it, don’t hate us, etc” because what we’re experiencing is part of a process.
If you stood in front of a tree and shouted, “Grow! Grow right now!” it wouldn’t grow. You’d get mad; you’d feel frustrated; because maybe around you other trees were growing, I don’t know. But it’s not going to grow. You just have to wait a little longer.
Johnny, Post #223:
I have not been slapped that bad in the face since coming home on crutches with a healing knee and a pin in my lower leg, and at the airport having a fellow BASTARD of yours Johnny - spit in my face - that was mid 1975 - and now I am spit in my face again by a coward like you in 2008. I use the word coward, as I do not think it reasonable that someone comes on this site just to spit in my face, makes there FIRST post and then is not seen again. You are obviously one of the leftist haters that regularly slams those you disagree with, but did not have the cajones to even use the name you use to post here normally - you had to use an alias, a manifestation to cover for your low road sick remark - and then you can act like you did not do it later by posting under another name.
Now I will give you the opportunity to be a man, or a woman, and tell all on this site that you are the contemptable worm that slapped a disabled veteran who took two bullets fighting for his country.
But then you probably are lacking in having even the courage to do that. Probably like the treasonous Americans that have the same disease as you that caused them to slam John McCain’s POW experience this past weekend, and then slap that experience in the face, to somehow help Obama get elected. Ignorance has to be part of that disease as I’ll bet that slam on McCain, on Obama’s behalf, took a lot of Vets that have been lifelong Democrats and put them in the Republican camp, at least for this election, as there are still plenty of the Greatest generation WWII Vets, Korean Vets and Vietnam Vets living that will just not put up with that slamming of their Veteran brethran when they know what McCain had to go through while a POW all those years.
One can see how crippled up McCain is from the torture he had to endure, and you and the people that slammed McCain are so low that you have to trash those that were made less whole while fighting for worms like you.
I am under no illusions, in a day gone by now in America, what I have said would cause one to have nothing but shame for themselves. But you come from that type of American that has no shame, in fact you are probably laughing as you read this. But I suspect most on this site have that shame, and even most of those left-leaning that I probably have very little in common with, they would feel shame if they lowered themselves to you level. And then you do have a couple that are kindred spirits with you that regularly post here, and I suspect you know what those names are, as one of those names is you.
All racial discrimination is “racist” by definition. We may disagree as to whether or not it is appropriate, as in Ladytexan’s case, but it is still racist. I bet few AIM supporters can claim no objection to their daughter’s interracial marriage. I bet such objections are more prevalent among conservatives than liberals. Disagree?
David,
You do have a point about poverty causing racist talk and blame. There really is a differnce between tough talk and what people feel, however. It doesn’t make it right, but it is true.
I will admit I have never had anyone give me a definition for racism. It seems to be a word that people can use to define many actions. That to me, almost makes it meaningless.
In a poverty situation, it is trying to find someone to blame for your situation - frustration, more than anything else.
The frustration of poverty manifests itself in the break up of marriages, domestic violence, chid abuse, crime of many kinds, etc. Racial resentment is just one of many things. It is not an excuse for those things, but people do vent their anger and frustration in those ways.
There were a lot of poor people when I was young, but they didn’t live in poverty. There’s a difference. I’ve known poor, but I’ve never known poverty.
The government convinced many people they were poverty stricken and it wasn’t their fault and someone owed them something and ‘I’m with the government and I’m here to help.’
They were attached to the trough and 4 generations later, they are still there, needing more and more from the government.
White people were convinced they deserved it - just because they were poor, and black people were told they deserved it because it was all white people’s fault.
People did not and still do not, realize that government goodies, comes with string and at the end of that string is a fishhook. The ‘hook’ was, if you actually do begin to rise from poverty, we’ll jerk all these goodies from you. You don’t have to rise far enough to actually be comfortable, just a little. People have become so dependent on government money, they feel safer staying poor than cutting the line and swimming away on their own.
I cannot understand slavery - I can’t fathom it. To attempt to speak about what it might feel like, what scars might have been left for the slaves, even some generations after, is something I don’t think we can do. In order to truly understand something, I think, you must have some reference in your own life or knowledge. I, personally, simply do not have that.
I don’t think the black people of today have that reference either. What they know, they have been taught, and not much of that by their ancestors, but by government, schools, etc. Some with good intentions, some with less than honorable ones. The wrongs they feel is sometimes imagined, sometimes real, but it is something quite different from slavery.
The problems, the differences, the difficulties faced by black people today is not related to slavery, but to a great extent, related to government actions.
I don’t believe that violence, ill treatment of one’s ancestors should be allowed to be used as an excuse. Not diminishing the absolute heinousness of slavery, black people are not the only ones who have been ill treated in the world. Yes, it would have an effect but to allow it to excuse bad behavior is wrong. To allow it to excuse their not achieving what they are capable of achieving hurts them. If we believed ill treatment, even of yourself let alone ancestors, gave you the right to be resentful,hateful, even violent, then we had better stop taking people in as refugees, etc. They come with a lot of bad memories.
One other thing we must realize, not all black people in this country had slaves for ancestors and certainly not all American owned slaves.
From what we have been told about Mr. Obama’s lineage, he does not come from slavery - at least American slavery. He doesn’t have that ancestral pain - he’s just exploiting the situation for his own gain.
My husband is Choctaw Indian. While he enjoys that fact, he is who he is and what he has made of himself. He doesn’t wallow in the injustices done to his ancestors. He does, however, have relatives who do. For the most part, they are on welfare of some type. Coincidence?
Mike,
You are going to have to give me your definition of ‘racist’.
Here are some facts about poverty, the so-called “wealth gap” and taxes. It seems the Lefties are barking up the wrong tree as usual.
“...My husband is Choctaw Indian. While he enjoys that fact, he is who he is and what he has made of himself. He doesn’t wallow in the injustices done to his ancestors. He does, however, have relatives who do. For the most part, they are on welfare of some type. Coincidence?...”
No coincidence. In fact, I would postulate a definite causal link. For example, the Lakota Sioux have one of the poorest “nations” of all the aboriginal tribes in the US. (Rosebud reservation is a wasteland of junk cars and appliances in the yards of run-down trailers and shacks.) High unemployment, high alcoholism rates, Indian-on-Indian violence and incest, all the usual indicators. They also, in my experience, have the most virulent form of tribalism—by that I mean the attitude that they alone are the greatest tribe, they got screwed by whitey, and whitey therefore owes them a living by virtue of the fact they are breathing.
If you look at the Blackfeet and Crow in western Montana, you find exactly the opposite. Their tribal lands are filled with nice houses, thriving businesses, and lots of “shingles” hung out advertising lawyers and doctors. They obviously enjoy what they’ve made of themselves.
Within blacks in America you see similar things, although usually it’s recent immigrant blacks who assimilate and become successful rather than descendants of the American slaves whose attitudes resemble those of the Lakota.
Oh, I don’t think it is tribalism - I do think it is again, wallowing in injustices to their ancestors, that is keeping them from achieving.
Really it is buying into the government’s idea that they can’t help themselves - that wrong was done their ancestors and they are helpless.
There are reservations that are functioning quite well.
Nothing wrong with tribalism. We get together as a tribe to protect each other.
I’m all for tribes. One thing we could learn from the Indians plight. If all the Indian tribes had worked together, there might have been more Little Big Horn type outcomes than there were.
If we, all our tribes (whatever your tribe may be) would get together and work together, maybe we could save ourselves from the reservation.
Anon,
No offense, but those kinds of links remind me of the links I used to get maybe a year and a half, 2 years ago, when I suggested (not that I was alone) all was not well with our economy.
There was always some ‘evidence’ that everything was just peachy keen and we had the strongest economy ever.
The evidence was that more people than ever owned homes (?) and so forth and so on.
We are in trouble, we can no longer ignore that fact.
So far, a lot of this hasn’t trickled down. There is also the credit factor. Lots of people are still able to pay the minimum on their credit cards. The credit card companies are working overtime, passing out new ones.
“... If we, all our tribes (whatever your tribe may be) would get together and work together, maybe we could save ourselves from the reservation. ...”
If we would work together there would be no need for tribes. We as individuals freely trading with each other and respecting each others’ individual rights would have no need of tribes to protect us. We would CHOOSE those with whom we associate rather than relying on the accident of birth or skin color to determine our community.
That’s what is meant by assimilation: becoming Americans, not hyphenated-americans.
Re: link
Arthur Laffer is one of the most respected economists in the US today. The reason he’s respected is that he collects and analyzes facts rather than collecting anecdotes to prove a pre-chosen conclusion.
I would rely more on Laffer’s conclusions than the hysterical “feelings” promulgated by the Left who are simply trying to resurrect Clinton’s “It’s the economy stupid” strategy.
BTW, what’s really ironic (or telling) about the Lakota Sioux is they drove the Blackfeet and Crow off their ancestral tribal lands about 120 years before Europeans ever showed up here.
The Blackfeet and Crow have for the most part “gotten over it” and gone forward with their lives and fortunes while the Lakota are constantly bemoaning the loss of their “culture” of the past and blaming their woes on whites.
You’re right about the credit mess. Too easy too long.
The article was about the issues I named: poverty, “wealth gap,” who’s paying their “fair share” of taxes, etc.
Anon,
The Heaven on earth was messed up by Eve - we are going to have to wait for Heaven. In the mean time, we have to live in the real world.
What I am talking about is just the opposite of non-assimilation or hypenated - totally different.
I’m talking tribal as in working together to get things done.
What we are doing now is dividing ourselves along some non-existant political line. If you asked most party liners, they would tell you that they are individual thinkers and that’s why they chose this party or that.
Until then we must bring ourselves together when we are threatened and threatened we are. Together we are a force. Why do you think the politicians and the media work so hard to keep us sniping at each other.
Why do you think we have rep/dem, con/lib, male/female, one race/another race, old/young, fat/thin, disabled/healthy, rich/poor, one state/another state, north/south etc. I mean we could on and on and on about the divisions they have for us.
We will always have governments, of one kind or another, and boy would they love it if ‘we were all individuals’, not working together - just being nice little docile individuals.
Ladytexan:
“Racist”: “Discrimination or prejudice based on race.” - American Heritage Dictionary
Mike,
I understand the word - just wonder what your definition was.
In that case, everyone in the world is at one time or another a racist. But that won’t work with the so-called black leaders. The Rev. Jessee says that black people cannot be racists.
See the insanity here.
That’s a word we have used to death - stick a fork in it.
You do have to be honest and admit that the word is used all too often to the point in today’s world, it has no meaning.
Do you know how often LaRaza calls those wanting immigration enforcment, racists?
Do you know how many times the Rev. Jessee, Sharpton, and Louis calls white people racists?
Ladytexan:
People will always try to revise conventional definitions to fit their political agendas. That self-serving definition of “racist” gained some traction in the early 1970’s, but has never gained mainstream traction. It should be summarily rejected.
I will go on record as having no objections to interracial marriage, and categorically rejecting racial discrimination in other situations as well.
I doubt other AIMers will also go on record in this regard. Anyone?
At the risk of breaking into an ongoing conversation, I was thinking today that I would like to thank ladytexan, Julie O and Jack for sharing their thoughts with me. Speaking with real people is always much more satisfying than hearing prebaked nonsense. Talking with you, reading through your posts, has given me a lot to think about, and is a much more potentially transformative experience than watching the news. I really wish we could solve the country’s problems this way.
Mark,
<<<I will go on record as having no objections to interracial marriage, and categorically rejecting racial discrimination in other situations as well.
I doubt other AIMers will also go on record in this regard. Anyone?>>>>>>>>
As respectfully as I can, if you would like to discuss something, I would truly enjoy doing that.
I’ve seen the monkey AND the elephant and I just don’t have time for race-baiting and insults.
David,
Thank you very much. We are having a good time aren’t we.
I, too, have enjoyed it and appreciate you and the ones you mentioned.
It has been a pleasure to discuss things with people who might not agree, yet are willing to ‘listen’, even to my very long winded posts. I can’t seem to say anything in a few words.
Ladytexan:
I don’t know what you mean by “the monkey and the elephant.” You made your position clear regarding interracial marriage. No judgment, insults or race-baiting intended.
Does anyone else categorically reject racial discrimination? Anyone?
Mark, I have four grandchildren. Two from my beautiful daughter and two from my handsome son. My youngest grandson who looks just like my son in law (sil) part cherokee, looks like a biracial child (black). He is my soulmate since birth although he is only “tree”. My grandchildren from my son I do not really know. He has hated me since he was a child for leaving his father. I still love them with all my heart.
I don’t care what kind of Grandchildren I have. I would love them with all my heart and soul. If allowed, I would love both their parents. Is that answer enough for you? Societal acceptance is so beyond what I have become. We are all created by the same creator. If you were in a burning car, and I could get you out, I would risk my life for you no matter what you believed or what color you were.
I hope you see what has happened here. I have been on many blogs and I have never ever seen anything like this. I have learned so much. My monitor crashed last night and I had to spend much of my day taking care of that nonsense. Not really what I needed financially. But, no monitor, no business. I want to go through these last posts with a fine tooth comb tomorrow. I will be responding. You are all in my prayers tonight. May God bless you for being who you are. David and Lady Texan thank you for your brilliance and mediation skills. David, I am so proud of you. I love your spirit.
Jack. Buck up my friend. There are a lot of Johnny’s out there waiting to tear you down. Do not let that happen. He was a jerk. Pray for him. He will have buckets of ashes poured on his head. You have been an integral part of this group. We need you. That person will see what is happening here and it will reach his spirit. If it does not, he will slink off under his rock.
Thank you, Julie. I really meant what I said. There’s a way in which talking to people with different views is so much more invigorating than speaking to people who are similar. You actually see destructive patterns in the thinking of your friends—biases, assumptions—and you seek to correct them. Have a good night.
And Julie’s right, Jack. Just ignore it. Not everyone’s a moron.
Thanks Julie and David. I had thought I left the hate for Nam Vets back in the early 80’s finally - but I guess I was wrong. I so worry that that will happen to Iraq and Afghanistan Vets, especially when the left wants to run up the surrender flag, and cut and run. And now I see that I do have a reason for worrying. So sad!
Jack,
Hopefully, that kind of insanity is behind us.
I’m not sure exactly what post or poster is being referred to here, but I do echo the ‘ignore’ idea.
Life is too short——Personally, I’m getting on up there and really don’t have time to waste dwelling on that.
Now don’t mistake people disapproving of the war, with disapproval of the soldiers or lack of support for them.
It is two different things.
In Nam, those against the war were those that were spitting on the returning soldiers - they say they are different this time - and so far that seems to be the case - thought the poster here that slammed me tells me that hate is still there.
One can be against the war and that is okay with me, they have that right, but if they are against the war, and demand that funding be cut off to the troops in the field, then that is something else. Also, if we are moments from winning and those against the war insist we cut and run, and effectively surrender, then that is also something else. There are consequences for people taking actions selfishly - a few million people in South Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, paid harshly, many with their lives, because the left insisted we cut and run from Nam. Those that have supported us in Iraq and Afghanistan should not have to pay with their lives because the left wants to cut and run, and it also destroys the morale of American soldiers.
We have reached stability in Iraq and are in the process of turning all security over to the Iraqis, and we are gradually withdrawing the troops - I would see it as close to treason right now to just pull out the troops and let all those gains cause everything we sacrificed for go down the drain because those that oppose the war insist upon it.
It is how we felt in Nam and they pulled us out and destroyed the military for a good generation after that - the left has millions of peoples blood on their hands for that, and it must not happen again, whether one agrees with the war or not.
I would never demand any funding for the soldiers being cut off and I don’t really think anyone else wants that.
In fact, I was appalled that it seemed when they first were sent they didn’t have the vests and armor on some vehicles, etc.
I am rational enough to realize right now we have a tiger by the tail and we can’t just leave, and I realize a lot of people will die if we do.
My argument is we should not have been there in the first place. Since we are, let’s try do it with as little loss of life as possible, and as quickly as possible AND make sure we don’t do this to soldiers again.
It just didn’t need to be -
I just don’t want discussion silenced on this, because I really do want to know the truth. Only if we know the truth, whatever it is, can we know the right thing to do next time.
Jack—the thing I’m seeing, with relation to vets, is that there’s respect for them coming out on both sides. Even the most staunch, mystically-thinking liberals I’ve spoken to have a strong feeling for them, and here’s how anti-war sentiment seems to have shifted over the years after Vietnam. With the passage of time, it looks like certain ethical burdens have been placed increasingly on the government. Which I don’t think means that people are being relieved of their individual responsibility, but, rather, the impetus for their mass action is seen quite clearly as arising from the White House.
David,
While I am not a liberal. I am what was once a conservative/Republican. That in the true sense, has gone. It deserted me, not the other way around. I’ve been known to be a little mystical, though.
Truly, I have not seen anything but support for the troops. Possibly, there are some nutjobs out there, but most of us, who think the war is wrong, still carry the soldiers in our hearts. They are in our prayers and on our minds daily.
I worry that the government will not do the right thing by these vets more so than the people’s response to them.
Our neighbors, just the best kind of people in the world, have 3 blue stars in their window. I can see them everytime I go to my front door. All of them were in Iraq at the same time, thank God, they are all home now. Everytime I see those, my heart lurches and a lump comes in my throat.
I hope the soldiers don’t think a few truly mindless people form their opinion of the support of this country.
Now that goes for the ones who say, ‘if you don’t support the war/President, you don’t support the troops’. I have always thought that was just totally reprehensible.
David..you are speaking with just a few. I am seeing a disturbing trend here, fueled as in Nam, by the media. Yes, there are courageous groups and individuals that are working the airports on their own time to welcome the troops home with reception lines of volunteers. It is really heartwarming. The only place I have seen these reports are on Fox and Glenn Beck. I have to admit to you that I do not watch any msm news. I get heartsick when I try. I don’t do heartsick well. Of course some of my braver family members do and report back to me on what they have heard or not heard. Berkley is covered well. It is a bastion of code pink military haters. Washington D.C. has had a lot of reports of members of the military abused publically. Like Jack, my husband goes nuts. He experienced his own abuse when he got back from Nam. So, it is happening in pockets around the U.S. We don’t want this to spread. Baby killer statements have started once again. Murtha and his lies that got a battalion of soldiers in hot water started a Court Marshall witch hunt. They have all been found innocent. Murtha needs to be Court Marshalled himself for doing this to our young soldiers that put their lives on the line. He publically spoke their guilt before the facts were known. This is what breeds the resentment of the Military. The far left have always been known to not be in favor of any Military at all. Clinton in his early years. “I despise the Military”. His deep Military cuts were what left us so vulnerable (See Lady Texans correct statement on body armor). But, it was all blamed on Bush. I am not a Bush fan, but for reasons other than the obvious. I imagine it will appear in another post.
Ladytexan, you are right. Abuse of our young soldiers. If something like we are doing know can spread, perhaps we can do some good. God willing.
I understand that experience of seeing the stars (for a while I was corresponding by email with one of my students in Iraq; their silence was always chilling).
I’d like to know a little bit more what to say to vets when they return. There’s a very long thread in Western literature—from Homer through Shakespeare to today—that talks about the difficulties of absorbing warriors back into the culture. I guess it’s always been hard. For myself I always defer to my students who’ve been overseas. There’s no way I can speak for them. They bring a lot of insights to the classroom, though. They understand certain academic issues in a very profound way.
I’d like to know a little bit more what to say to vets when they return.
I run into these young men and women in the airports all the time, whether walking in the hallways are sitting in a restaurant. I always look them in the eye, smile, and say “Thank you so much for your service to our Country” Nuff said.
My husband shakes their hands and I hug them and tell them we love them and thank you.
I don’t think the war was right, but these people did exactly what our country asks/asked of them. We owe them nothing but our support, love and respect.
My paternal grandmother had 9 boys, there were 7 pictures on her wall of her sons who were in WWII, in every branch of the service.
My stepfather was in a plane crash in WWII, was in the hospital for 9 months after and was in pain every day from those wounds. He didn’t talk much about it, except the funny things. I know he was in the Asian theatre. Other than the fact for many years, you made youself known if you were walking up behind him, and the fact he used a Japanese flag, made of cotton, to dry his feet every night - you would think he just had fun in the Navy.
My husband had a brother in Korea, and 2 in Vietnam - a Grandfather in WWI.
My husband, son and brother were in the military, but peacetime.
I don’t forget soldiers - ever.
Whatever we each think of the decisions in Washington, that’s our part.
Again, I hope we can see the government doesn’t forget them.
As to the soldiers not being properly supplied, I don’t blame Pres. Bush for that. That comes from the corruption in our military contracting and the fact that sometimes it’s the soldier’s needs who comes last. That has been going on for many years, but certainly Pres. Clinton’s administration was responsible for whatever condition the military was in at that time.
I thought you all might find this a bit interesting. I just received this from a very good friend.
...from excellent sources within the DNC:
On or about October 5th, Biden will excuse himself from the ticket, citing health problems, and he will be replaced by Hillary. This is timed to occur after the VP debate on 10/2.
I have already seen a few short blurbs about this - the “health problem” cited in those articles was aneurysm. probably many of you have heard the same rumblings. However, at this point, with this inside info from the DNC, it looks like this Obama strategy will be a go. Therefore, it seems that the best strategy is to get out in front of this obama maneuver, spell it out in detail, and thereby expose it for the grand manipulation that it is.
This is the scariest election and the most frightning candidate I have in all my years seen. Nothing with this crowd surprises me.
I just got someone else’s response. It says that
around 5 Oct Biden will bow out due to health
reasons.. maybe an anuersym. Hillary will take over the post.
Keep today’s day, 17 Sept in mind,
if it DOES come about, we can wrap the old fish
in some newspaper: it smells fishy.
Post #264 & #265:
There’s a similar rumor that, should McCain win the election, Palin is set to resign to tend to her mounting problems in Alaska and her 17-year-old pregnant daughter and Down Syndrome infant - - while McCain then raises Lieberman to the Vice-Presidency.
Believe me, should anything happen to McCain should he be elected Presdient - - thinking of EITHER Palin OR Lieberman as President is W-A-Y more scary than imagining Obama and Biden (or Clinton) in the job - - the same kind of scary that caused Goldwater to lose in 1964, 65% to 35%!
Palin and Lieberman are ideological extremists and both appear to be totally trigger-happy when it comes to foreign affairs.
Goldwater was scary in terms of his militarism and willingness to “drop the bomb”. Palin and Lieberman seem nearly as bad.
TK; boy, have I gotten a slew of responses to comments you, ladytexan, and julie have made wow
I KNOW MCCAINS AND PALIN’S HONORABLE PASTS.
I KNOW MCCLINTONS (plural) PASTS. I DON’T KNOW
A WHOLE LOT OF LIEBERMAN, OTHER THAN HE SEEMS TO BE A CONTINUAL ‘WANNABE.’
OBAMA? Have YOU seen a legitimate U.S. Birth
Certificate on him? I needed one to take a Carnival cruise. Oh, that’s the answer!!!! I’ll
buy him a Carnival cruise trip….then he’ll HAVE
TO SHOW IT, RIGHT? Dream on.
OF ALL THAT IS OFFERED; MCCAIN/PALIN REPRESENT
THE BEST OF ALL COMBINED.
I THINK IT WOULD BE GRAND IF OBAMA WITH HIS
EGOTISM AND PELOSI WITH HER EGOTISM PLUS ARROGANCE…. WOW WE’D SEE THE BATTLE OF THE
EGO-TITANS.
DO YOU WRITE WITH YOUR LEFT HAND ALSO?
TK; POST 264;
http://americandaily.com/article/23030
try that one. It came out before this smear job
on Palin with troopergate. One of the Senator’s
assigned to the task should recuse himself: he
gave (I believe the amt is correct) $2,000 to Obama run.
Post agagin, when you come out of your coma.
They lie so much, anything out of their mouths, how can we believe it?
I too have not only heard the rumors about Biden using a sickness excuss to step down, but it was also on Fox and CNN today - so it is better than just a rumor. The one thing we have going for us is that there is enough heads up that people will see it as the absolute desperation of Obama to try and bring victory out of loss. The other thing we have going for us is that Hillary would have probably swallowed her pride and taken VP but it would have wrankled her to lower herself to that, and be #2 to an upstart. But taking seconds on VP - highly highly doubtful. Besides should she do so and Obama win, she would probably lose the chance at 2012, her LAST chance. If McCain wins, then he will probably step down in 2012, and she could go head to head against maybe Palin, and she would like those odds.
As for TKs so-called rumor, come on! She does not have huge problems to deal with back in Alaska - just a bunch of slimy Democrats that are on that end making a mountain out of a mole hill to try and screw with her and make her un-electable - she was entirely justified in the firing of the Public Safety Director and they KNOW it. As for her daughter, that is weak as really thin gruel. She is certainly not the first 17 year old female to get pregnant in US history, she and the father seem to get along just fine, and they will be married before the baby is born - momma doesn’t need to be there and they know that. As for the child with Down’s Syndrome, as VP she will have less time away from home than if she were Governor. She certainly has more responsibility as Governor than she will as VP - does anybody on this site really believe Sarah Palin can not handle both?
What I suspect is we are being fed another line by TK and leftists, in the hopes all the happy Conservatives with Palin on the ticket will become discouraged if she were to leave after election, and maybe we won’t vote for McCain because of it. I see it as the real beginning desperation of the Osama campaign.
Jack, TK, Carolyn, Goodis: Do YOU have any problems with interracial marriage?
Mike, does your mom use perfumed toilet paper or sandpaper or just regular white biodegradable toilet paper? See I can stick my nose in your business just as well as you stick your nose in mine! Why must you people llof at this entire election as racial - obviously you have a real problem with a black man running for President, but I do not have a problem with that - in fact it could be a black woman. So stuff your racism, Mike.
The question was interracial marriage, not the election, Jack. Marriage is a more sensitive indicator of racism than politics. I deny my racism. Do you?
What the hell do you want an indicator for Mike? Because you are on a conservative sight and you make the ignorant assumption that we must all be racist. That is sure dumb Mike. Are you the troglodyte here? Do you just want to stir up the muck because you can’t stand the peaceful and open conversations we have had between people with different opinions. So your left wing anarchist side just couldn’t stand the peace. Why don’t you take your misery somewhere else Mike? Take your stupid assumptions and stick it where the sun doesn’t shine you left wing loony tune.
I made no assumptions. That’s why I politely asked. I would like to compare the responses of conservatives and liberals. Easy question, but it reveals the true nature of each respondent.
Re: Jack H Hansen, Post #269;
Regarding your comment:
” ... just a bunch of slimy Democrats ...”
Are there any “slimy” Republicans in your world, Jack?
The lack of Christian good will on this forum is often pretty amazing. But, I guess that’s why they invented the word “hypocrite”.
Julie O - you go girl lol
TK, yes there are “slimy” Republicans! Though in my opinion they should not be Republicans because they are so far to the left they should be Democraps, whoops - crats.
Listen to this, guys, here is a liberal talking about Christian good will, when they want every Christian hung from the nearest yardarm. And he uses the word hypocrite? WOW
Mike, none of your business, but obviously you could not figure that out when I asked what kind of toilet paper your momma uses. Did you go to the liberal public school system? They taught you to be racist, but not how to understand BIG hints!
Mike, what is it you want to hear from us conservative Christians? I’ll give you my views.
Marriage is tough. It’s usually best for one to marry within one’s racial, ethnic, and social group. Yet from a Biblical viewpoint the only requirement for a Christian is to marry another believer.
Do you recall the story about Miriam’s objection to Moses marrying a black woman? She was struck down with what may have been leprosy, which makes the skin very white. After Aaron pleaded for her and she repented Moses prayed for her and she was healed.
It would seem that if God didn’t object to his servant Moses marrying outside his race, why should we? By the way, since my divorce, the only woman I’ve considered marrying was a Christian African; not Afro-American, African from Kenya.
My niece is marrying a black from Jamaica. He’s a great guy and a strong Christian.
Roberto: Thanks for your answer. It is civil and rational, unlike some others.
Jack: Why do you assume that I am a racist? What evidence led you to that conclusion? Unlike you, I explicitly reject racial discrimination. Could it be the pot calling the kettle “black”?
And that IS the reason I refused to answer you, because you have already made the conclusion (when you asked the question in the first place) that we Conservatives are racists, and you said it by “unlike you, I explicitily reject racial discrimination.”
Now I realize you think us all idiots here, but we can see exactly what your motive is: You want to call us all racists, which is what you already believe, and in refusing to play your game, you got what you want, I am forced to play your game because of your conclusion that we are racist.
It is not good enough for you that I have said that I could care less whether someone is black or female and running for President, no you want something else - you want an argument. I answered your question and still you are pushing - and MIKE, I see that as the very height of racism, and that is why I call you a racist. Race seems to be a really big deal to you, and race seems to be a big deal to KKK members, so lets add two and two together. If race is a big deal to KKK racists and race is a big deal to you, then ergo - you MUST be racist.
Man get an education, why must we spell it out to you in itty bitty words - are you that dense, or are you trying to create a problem? Yes, we know, you asked so you could be a racist like Obama. Race is everything to him, and obviously it is to you, and with the end of this sentence we are done talking - if you are so ignorant you can not figure it out by now, you never will.
Ah! So by your logic, when you ask someone if they are Jewish, you already made the assumption they are Jewish? When you ask someone if they are Chinese, you made the assumption they are Chinese? If you ask someone if they are a Conservative, you already made the assumption they are Conservative? When you ask someone if they are allergic to eggs, you already assumed they are allergic to eggs? Illogical thinking, Jack.
Sorry, Jack, but when people ask questions it’s because they want to avoid assumptions. You assume quite a lot. Pity. Fewer assumptions and more civility works wonders, Jack . . .
BTW: “Race being a big deal” is not the definition of racist. Treating people differently based on race IS the definition. People may decline to answer this question for a number of reasons besides racism. It would be foolish to automatically assume racism, as you have. Unlike you, I make few assumptions.
You want civility Mike - here it is - F**K YOU!!!
Typical, Jack, typical. Perhaps you will learn civilized behavior one of these days. I will pray for you.
Race IS a “big deal” to some psychologists, ethnographers, sociologists, and other social scientists who study human behavior. I guess by your definition we are all “racist.”
BTW: You would make a wonderful study subject for a psychological profile! Anthropologists may be especially interested in your atavistic aberration.
Mike and BS, obviously one and the same!
You wanted a reaction - I gave it to you. You can deny it all you want, it will do no good - you wanted to have a fight - so I gave it to you - and now you can feel superior to me - but then I already knew that - and you did too - but you would never admit it. Playing you sicko psychological games again I see - when you use the terminology that you do - I know I am talking with the despicable Brian Sullivan. But then I also know you are TK, and BlackHat, and anonymous, and emperor zero, who did I miss?
Now you can say I must be wacko, because we have been here before - so very childish - how can your wife stomach you? I would commit suicide if I was married to crack-pot like you.
Race IS a “big deal” to some psychologists, ethnographers, sociologists, and other social scientists who study human behavior. I guess by your definition we are all “racist.”
BTW: You would make a wonderful study subject for a psychological profile! Anthropologists may be especially interested in your atavistic aberration.
Since I have my undergraduate degree in Psychology here Mike, I will answer this.
I find you the aberration my dear. You have come into this forum and decided to perform your experiment on a group of individuals like we are Monkey’s in a cage. Because we are Conservative’s, your erroneous conclusions are we are below your intellectual IQ, so we should be oblivious to the poking and prodding of your experimentation tools.
This is why the far left liberal crowd have a, (you should love this David whereever you are, “Fatal Flaw”.) The assumption that we should playfully go along with this personality character test has frankly been your fatal flaw. We see you as you are Mike. You are a pseudo- intellectual, trying to look smart and important. Instead, you look like a caricature of a human. One that has evolved with the rest of the Liberal group that believe that intolerence of thought and beliefs are fine as long as the target is a Conservative. Name calling, ad hominem attacks, intrusion, and personal destruction are fine as long as the target is Conservative. Janine Garafolo said yesterday “All Republicans need to be killed”. Not surprising at all Mike. You fit right in to that crowd. It is a real laugh to us that you would come in here and goad “real” people and not expect an angry response. When you get that response you call us unChristianlike and hypocrites. Like you would know anything at all about the subject. Take your experiment back to the daily Kos Mike. That is where you belong.
Re: Jack H Hansen, Post #281;
Childish.
Classless.
Certainly unChristian.
Like I said, Jack, you’re just dopey!
Re: Jack H Hansen, Post #283;
You go from the worst to worser!
TK, still trying to goad a fight I see! Are you so isolated from the world that you have nothing better to do than start a fight just because it entertains you? With that isolation, perhaps it tells us why you are the way you are. Maybe you get your news releases from Huff and puff, or Daily KOS, or another wacko slimy democrat hate site.
Every morning I get on my knees and pray that I will be better than the day before, that I will follow Christ and his teachings and his way. At night I get back on my knees and pray for forgiveness for I know that in some way I have fallen short.
TK, if you knew what it was to be a Christian you would never ever accuse anyone of not being one. It is not for you to know what is in ones heart. It is not you to be one that makes that call. You have shown two sides of yourself, neither of which we know who is the real you. Typical of a liberal troll. You are the last that should be making a judgment on ones character.
You goad people and are shocked with the response. By coming into this sight just to pick a fight with someone of different mind, you have made a very loud statement of just what kind of person you are. I am sorry for you TK. It was really special in here for a while Some of us decided to be civil and have a great exchange of ideas. Then there are those that can not stand to have something like that occur. In my faith, it is an evil entity that urges people to do something like that. I don’t know what it is in yours, if you really have any faith at all.
Re: Posts #287 and #288;
To me, in great part, Christianity includes conformance to The Golden Rule - - and, in great part, one’s level of Christianity (one’s adherence to principles of The Golden Rule) can be recognized and even measured by simple observation of their deeds, in the hearing of their words, and in their thoughts, insofar as those thoughts may be truthfully written down.
Jack, in particular, is prone to rude, crude, crass, vulgar, and, frankly, some sick-sounding and completely unacculturated responses here to those with whom he disagrees and, even to the most casual observer, those kinds of responses, among other things, are certainly UNChristian.
And, Julie O., as with Jack, ANYONE can see that when you disagree with someone, you routinely go off into an UNChristian rant, personally attacking your supposed tormentor with trite name-calling and character assassination - - while claiming protection and “rightness” for yourself by professing your own twisted version of what is Christian and what is not.
In my constitutionally-protected opinion, there’s not a Christian pastor around who would approve - - strictly on the grounds of Christian thought, word and deed - - ALL of the posts you two have placed here. In many cases, you can’t even be rudimentally civil - - let alone evidencing true Christian spirit.
Of course, you can write and think anything you want - - and you are free to generate whatever image you choose for yourselves.
However, to me, neither of you show even the slightest hint of true Christianity.
In my Constitutionally-Protected Opinion TK, and being the UNChristian person that I am, Where you are the Person Voted most Christain Like in the History Of the American Republic - F**K YOU!!!
I wonder though what God would think of someone who’s only existence seems to be that he trolls to create fights, constantly goads just for the hell of it, and never has one good word to say about anybody, and he lives to put those he disagrees with down - Guess if you are the mark of the true and only Christian, I don’t then want to be a Christian.
I hate you people so much from the left now, that the hell I am going to be Christian with you ever ever again. No turning the other cheek ever again, you have used far to many fighting words, and I frankly could care less about whether you think me Christian or not. If God wants me to be a woosy milktoast and constantly take crap from the likes of assholes like you, then he is going to just have to be disappointed with me - bigtime. You spread hate and you get hate from me.
When judgement day comes, I suspect God will not appreciate that I use the words I do to you, but if he is an understanding God, he will understand that to me, I was given no other choice - as you people of choice like to make other peoples choices for them.
Jack, Jack:
You were doing so well there for about 2 posts, now you’ve lapsed. Please, son, get some help and keep taking your lithium like the doctor ordered.
God bless you.
But Brian (Benedict XVI), it is you and yours that attack, and all I do is answer you - maybe with more nasty words - but VERY apt words. Just like a liberal, create the problem, then have the solution to the problem, which is even worse than the problem you created.
Reminds me of the financial mess we have. And now your solution is absolute government control over the nation’s economy - which is what you always wanted and helped getting us into the problem so you could have YOUR solution.
Dear Jack:
You poor tortured fellow. Control of an economy or any similar material goal is not what I seek. It is redemption and the glorious reunification with our Lord and Savior I wish for all humans. I’m just the humble Shepard guiding the flock.
Jesus loves you. How can you hate any of your fellow humans knowing that?
God bless.
TK….You are indeed slow, and it is very clear that the Good Book has never had a good workout in your home.
Jack, hide the goat..this time in a better place.
September 8 at 1:19 am | #1 | Link
Brilliant! I saw you on C-SPAN and you were right on the mark. One great moment was when you backed the other guy into finally admitting that he had spoken at Yearly Kos. Also, it was remarkably revealing that he knew nothing of the details behind Palin’s “ethics” investigation. He had never heard about the threats against her family. He could improve his credibility if he at least TRIED keep informed on the topics he has been using to bludgeon Palin and conservatives.
I saw Biden’s interview on MTP. I was glad to see Brokaw bring up the topic of Biden’s son being a lobbyist and how lobbyists have influenced Biden on credit industry concerns. That’s the first I’ve heard about it from the MSM. The MSM loves to claim the GOP is in bed with lobbyists, but it hasn’t been holding the Dems to the same standard. I hope they dig deeper into this hypocrisy on the part of the Dems. Still, though, so many things that SHOULD’VE been asked weren’t asked (as you stated).
Keep up the good work. You’re a breath of fresh air in a sea of blatant shamelessness.