It is important not to accede to the purveyors of Newspeak when it comes to defining the term “swiftboating”.  They are trying to shove what really happened in 2004 down the memory hole so that they can deligitimize all criticism of Obama in 2008.  Swiftboating is “the act of exposing the exagerated or inflated claims of a person seeking to promote himself into a position of authority”. If we don’t speak out against lies, the truth will die.

Not mentioned in the article above:

Kerry violated the Logan Act, which states that a private citizen can’t negotiate with a foreign power. Private citizen Kerry went to France and negotiated with the North Vietnamese delegation to the peace talks.

Still unexplained: Why was Kerry not given his honorable discharge until Carter was in office? By ‘75, our troops were gone and funding for S Vietnam cut off; Carter took office in ‘76.

Why wasn’t Kerry charged with lying to Congress? He described at length a number of atrocities committed by our troops. Later, he admitted that he had only “heard about” such atrocities. He simply didn’t spend enough time (a bit less than 4 months) “in country” to witness so many atrocities, plus much of that time was taken up with his filmed re-enactments of any skirmishes he actually witnessed.

His crowning achievement: he chased a teenage Viet Cong down and shot him in the back.

Kerry also promised to release his complete war records. Hasn’t happened yet…and Bush’s second term is nearing its end.

Off-topic, but amusing: Kerry and running mate John Edwards claimed that one of their qualifications for office was that they had “better hair.”

And while claiming that Bush was dumb, Bush had a higher grade point average in college and went on to get a MBA, while Kerry made the political decision to what amounted to a brief vacation in Vietnam in anticipation of a career in politics, aping JFK’s service which helped him get elected prez…along with the corrupt Chicago political machine and his father’s money.

Tuh-RAY-zuh Heinz, the wife of gigolo Kerry, was simply a godsend.

The libs always “project” their own shortcomings onto republicans: I’m rubber; you’re glue; whatever you call me bounces off me and sticks to you. (Actually, this is a fairly successful strategy given the indisputable media bias in favor of democrats.)

The only real question is who made Kerry appear so ridiculous: the Swift Boat Vets or Kerry himself?

Dear voxounreason, Can you really be such an ignorant moron? I grow more amazed at every blog you post. The great majority of US, S. Vietnamese, Viet Cong and North Vietnmese soldiers who fought in that war were teenagers. the average American killed in combat was a nineteen-year-old at the E-3 pay grade level. As for your mythological idea about how Kerry won his Silver Star, do you have any idea who personally approved that decoration? It was CINCPAC commander, Adm McCain, the present presidential candidate’s father. Don’t believe me? Check it out. Gee, I wonder if Adm McCain was a Commie, or, at least a liberal? He must have had at least some influence on his son.
Consider the implications: two Commies competing to be president. Better get your passport ready so you can flee. Whoever wins in November is going to set up the dictatorship of the proletariat in January. You’re not a prole, are you?
Finally, the best way to kill someone on the battlefield is when they’re running away. They can’t dodge your aim nor shoot back so easily. War, my dear imbecile, is about killing. When fighting Communists, isn’t the point to kill as many as possible, not adopt some nonsensical rule about not shooting them from behind. Believe me, the VC didn’t follow such rules.

Brian’s letter to voxoreason is typical of the kind of ignorance and false reasoning we find in liberals. 
When they have weak arguments, they resort to name calling.  That is just another sign of their weakness.

Dear Mr. John, Please explain what portions my blog is contrary to the facts.
I wonder…were you ever in Vietnam? Ever hear a shot fired in anger? Ever lead men into combat? Ever got wounded? Ever kill any Communists? Ever receive a Silver Star like Kerry did? All those are things I saw, experienced and did. Name calling? When I read idiocy, I so describe it. That’s telling the truth, which you actually can’t recognize.
The “psychopathic, lying media”? You poor dunce - not name calling but an accurate description - have you no idea how AIM makes its money at your expense? It appears that when you read the truth that defies your ignorant preconceptions and wishful thinking, you consider that must be lies. So, you seek out sources of darkness that reinforce the blackness that fills your “vercellino.” Are you aware of the notion of “a mind clouded by sin”? Have you ever considered, in your particualr case, why you should be concerned that Satan is called “The Prince of Lies”? Probably not, I would imagine.
Oh, and one more thing. Why not read through your old blogs. Notice any name calling on your part? How old are you chronologically? Mentally, you seem about ten-years-old and intellectually challenged even to make bubbles with your saliva.

Brian

Okay, I will concede the point that shooting a teenage Viet Cong in the back was the rational thing to do.

You seem to have missed every other item in a rather lengthy list while cherry-picking a rather non-essential point, including the fact that Kerry committed a crime by negotiating with a foreign power, while disparaging our troops in Vietnam by testifying before Congress about a long list of atrocities he had never witnessed, as he was too busy making home movies, which I assume is also a great tactical move since you didn’t address that.

As noted in the piece above:
The Swift Vets included Kerry’s *entire former chain of command from Vietnam* and dozens of eyewitnesses to his actions.

Bush is not perfect by any wild stretch (although you DO make him look good!), but Kerry is simply a posturing ass (with “better hair”) and UNFIT FOR COMMAND. Feel free to argue the opposite position. That would probably be very hilarious, although unintentionally, as this is your modus operandi.

You are a small man who seems to get smaller with every post you make.

Perhaps you may simply disappear at some point!

What a shame that would be. I would probably break out in tears. (Well…maybe not.)

:>(

Brian R. Sullivan - #5
Dave - #8

I’m with you guys all the way, here!

Extremist partisans aren’t interested in facts or uncovering truth.  They’re only interested in promoting their own agendas.

Unfortunately, today, EVERYTHING is “spin” - - everything we have to deal with on a daily basis involves marketing, public relations, advertising, hucksterism, P.T. Barnumism - - the “selling” of something - - product, service or idea.  And the only beneficiary is the spinmeister and the employer of the spinmeister.

The real problem is not that the media is no longer objective - - the problem is that too many individuals, in or out of the media, have their own personalized, ethnocentric agendas and simply refuse to be objective or truthful - - or to seek objectivity and truthfulness - - no matter the issue or its import.

Kerry lost the 04’ election by his disregard of his fellow soldiers.
The Swift Boat veterans were correct in calling Kerry to answer for his remarks regarding “child murders” and “rapists”.

Now heed the following from MY WAR.

Korean War ‘Massacre’ Story Not True

NewsMax,com
Friday, May 12, 2000 7:56 p.m. EDT
A Pulitzer Prize-winning Associated Press story about a massacre of civilian refugees in the earliest day of the Korean War — which was picked up and spread by countless other media, provoking outrage here and in Korea — is not true, according to two hard-hitting investigative reports out today.
Both U.S. News & World Reportand the magazine Stars and Stripes launched investigations of the alleged massacre at the village of No Gun Ri and discovered that the story was so riddled with gaping holes — and that several key “witnesses” cited by AP were not even there — that its credibility is practically nil.
Published on Sept. 30, 1999, the AP story charged that in June 1950, when U.S. and South Korean forces were facing an onslaught by swiftly advancing North Korean troops, American soldiers acting on orders from their superior officers allegedly machine-gunned hundreds of helpless South Korean civilians huddled under a railroad bridge near No Gun Ri.
The shocking story reverberated around the world, sparked an official Army investigation of the alleged massacre and was reported in other publications and on television, many of which added new details from sources cited in the original report. NBC even had Tom Brokaw do a special segment on the story.
As with CNN’s sensational Tailwind story that suggested American soldiers gassed Vietcong during the Vietnam War, most of the media swallowed the No Gun Ri massacre story without questioning it or even verifying accounts.

The Left Media is forever busy….........

Dear Mr. Bentley, Senator Kerry earned three Purple Hearts, not four. But, more to the point, do you have any idea how one’s actions are investigated after a rec for a Bronze Star and, more carefully, for a Silver Star? (By the way, as befitting such awards, their names should by spelled in higher case letters.) True, there are many men who have deserved decorations for valor that they never received. Not all such heroism is witnessed and bias by superior officers often prevents a man from getting what he deserves to wear on his chest. But in Kerry’s case, both the Silver and Bronze Stars were not awarded without careful consideration of what witnesses reported and his Hearts were granted only after his wounds had been treated by navy doctors. All this is a matter of record. The lies told by the so-called Swift Veterans for Truth in this regard not only haunt them in this life, but, I suspect, even more so in the next. And all this to get us four years of Dubya, the man who left Georgia to me mauled by the Bear?

Memo to: Brian, the self proclaimed arbiter of all that is true and righteous.

You come across as a top notch pompous ass.  John Kerry is not fit to lick the boots of any combat vet, let alone a Vietnam combat vet. 

Exactly what are your credentials?  Feel free to pimp yourself.

Dear Mr. Martinez, The senator’s name is John Forbes Kerry. But I’m astounded that you would attempt to make fun of someone by falsely identifying them with a non-Anglo-Saxon name. Do you have an inferiority complex because of your own name? If so, there is no reason. You should be proud of your name and your ethnic heritage. But if you are that ignorant and self-hating, shouldn’t you keep it to yourself and not humiliate yourself in public? Think about how your family would think about such implied insults to them by you. Have you no pride, no self respect? Even if you don’t, why imply such false reasons for shame in regard to the entire Latino community? Is the cause self-hatred on your part?

Dear Mr. Mike, John Kerry went to Vietnam with a film crew? Are you nuts? Have you the slightest idea of how impossible that would have been? Do you think Kerry’s naval superiors would have tolerated that? Do you think Kerry could have paid anyone enough money to serve as his film crew - even if he had gotten permission from Adm Zumwalt himself - under those circumstances? I take it you never served in Vietnam. As for taking a film crew on a swift boat, down in the Mekong Delta, the notion is even more preposterous. Where did you acquire such an idiotic opinion, in a comic book? You seem to have gotten your ideas from someone else’s lurid right-wing fantasies. Believe me, I know whereof I blog. I was there in 1968-69 and saw a fair amount of combat. You are welcome to believe what you want. But to express such ideas in public brands you as a hopeless fool and a blithering moron.

The ancient great Greek thinker and philosopher Aristotle taught the the brain existed merely to cool the blood and was not involved in the process of thinking.  Now all here on this site know that at least Aristotle was correct in one case - as we know the thinking process does not eminate from the brain of Brian R Sullivan.  I have heard here also that he is a pompous ass - perhaps that ass has another function - as the knowledge center for the only one that claims to have brains in the world!

Oh boy, we have another one, that knows exactly how we think, knows that our thinking is therefore ignorant, and is here to correct that thinking so we will think exactly like him - and he actually has the cajones to call us drooling lockstep dittoheads - look in the mirror dave, because if there are any drooling lockstep dittoheads here they be you (and your other manifestation Brian) and people like you that think we should all think like you and therefore the same.

It is why you instituted gulags in our public school systems - so you could indoctrinate them in your PC thinking - and it burns people like you that we actually have people that home-school their kids because they do not want that (and you try desperately to end home-schooling so you can re-educate these kids too).  And why did they have to start home-schooling in this country?  Because as year year goes by, those with a public school education get closer and closer to being drooling lockstep dittoheads.

But have patience dave, one day if you and those you serve (Obama, Reid, Pelosi and Company) have their way, you will be able to force everyone you disagree with into your gulags - but hey dave, a hint, if we lose and you win in the battle for America, when you come to get me, come well armed, because this is one American who will NOT go willingly to your gas chambers or gulags.

So yes, you are correct in one sense, you and Brian ARE wasting your time here muddling up free discussion on this site.  You think yourselves cute, and since you are the only ones with brains (in your thinking), you believe it is your duty to do and say whatever (the ends justify the means), to get us on the correct path.

So take your toys boys, and go back to the Daily KOS.  If and when you get control in America, you can report that the FREE thinkers here at AIM are not going to take re-education well, we will not be useful idiots easily, and therefore you recommend the gas chambers for us rather than the gulags.  And like Nathan Hale we will not go to the ovens easily and without speaking our minds.

OH and your other manifestation Brian - I am a Phi Beta Kappa - so don’t mock my marks in college - back then extremely high marks in academia were rewarded to those that excelled and PC grading had not commenced for your drooling lockstep dittohead useful idiots.  Ever hear of Summa Cum Laude and Magna Cum Laude - well I graduated from one college with the former and the other college with the latter.  And the third university used the system where I graduated with Highest Honors, so in effect - Summa Cum Laude.

And the first school was in American History, the second was dual BA’s in American History and also Political Science, with minors in American Military (yes, read military) History and Scandinavian History, and the third in American History, so yes, you can call me Doctor also, though I have never used the title till now, but that is only for you Brian, the rest here can continue to treat me as one of you, because that is what I am - an American that loves the concept of liberty (liberty from Nazis like Brian and now his other manifestation dave).  Oh, and Brian, since you want to use titles, like you are called Major, you can call me Seaman, First Class

Jack-

where did I say that everyone should think like me? Oh, sorry, that’s a pertinent question and therefore nothing for you to worry about. You’re busy with your “all liberal bashing all the time” agenda, replete with an inexplicable reference to gulags (ye gods!)and an example of the ever popular “I-know-you-but-what-am-I?” variety of wit (“look in the mirror dave…”). Excellent.

What I have observed here is that just about everyone on this board already thinks the same, whether it’s “Obama is a Socialist, Muslim, druggie, whatever” or “Kerry bought his silver star on E-Bay” or whatever it is that congenital liar Corsi has come up with recently.

I’m glad to see that you took time off from penning letters to Penthouse Forum to forward his CV to this board. Although I have to wonder when you say”...when you come to get me, come well armed, because this is one American who will NOT go willingly to your gas chambers or gulags.” if his various advance degrees are in Paranoid Rambling.

And if, rather than calling you Doctor or Seamen, I call you Jackoff, please understand that it is with all due respect.

Dear OldNavyVet, You asked for my credentials. I supplied you with some and explained why what you wrote is simply nonsense. Then I asked you a series of questions. You answered none. You didn’t even supply us with your real name. I imagine you have a great deal to hide or about which you are deeply ashamed.
More to the point, however, how did you respond? Well, I will quote you:

“Further memo to Brian the POMPOUS ASS!
Your mother must be very proud of you.
You should consider changing your meds.” 

Well, in fact, my mother IS very proud of me. Her husband, my father, was a deeply troubled man. He abandoned us when I was 12, my middle brother 7 and my youngest brother was little over 1-year-old. We were thrown down in to very deep poverty. Over the next twelve years I managed to get into an excellent Jesuit high school, graduate from Columbia with two B.A.s, earn a commission in USMCR, serve - variously - with the 1stMarDiv as a forward observer, fire direction officer, battalion S-2, regimental S-2a, infantry platoon commander (USMC was very short of infantry officers by early 1969, so they were putting officers with non-0302 MOS’s into platoon and company slots) win a Silver Star and return home in more or less one piece.
After that… But I think I have made my point. I can’t judge whether I’m either a ass or pompous. But I will point out that hardly matters very much, does it?
As for changing my meds, I don’t think that would be a good idea. Sometimes the pain in my right foot can become very severe. It was riddled with mortar round fragments in August 1968, NW of Danang. So, I often need painkillers to get through the day or the night, especially in cold, wet weather.
Now, please do as I asked: provide some biographical details. In particular, relate your adventures and activities in Olongapo and list what forms of VD you have been treated for. Or were you never treated? That would explain a lot.

Na na na na na - mine was better than yours was! lol isn’t this great?  Every time these liberal sleaze balls attack - and that’s all they do - as we are so ignorant compared to them - I have decided to just dump it right back in their faces.  If they want to act like little kids, and reasoning with them does not work, as we are so ignorant, then if you can’t use logical reasoning with them, then I guess we join them, right?

Now that does not mean I will think like them - as I sure don’t want to become drooling lockstep dittoheads like the liberals, but since attack, attack, and attack, and demean and intimidate, is their forte, then I can act like a little kid like them too!

dave, you have Conservatives and liberals reversed, it is liberals that come from places like your liberal den of iniquity San Francisco, where they fornicate in public while parading down the streets shoving their despicable lifestyles down their neighbors throats - that is where the Jackoffs are,  So mature of you dave, I haven’t been called Jackoff since playing on the playground in Grade School - but then we must lower ourselves to your juvenile mind to converse with you it seems.

As for liberal bashing - you and your alter ego Sullivan started this AND YOU KNOW IT.  So typical of liberals - do something wrong and nasty, then when those that you attack, attack back as it is the only way to converse with adolescents, then BLAME them.  Can’t you sick fu*ks come up with anything else?

I don’t know dave, having never penned letters to Penthouse Forum (didn’t even know they had a forum), I will have to assume that you have experience there, and bow to your knowledge of such things.

Oh dave, say hi to the other personality in your head, Sullivan, and while your at it, say hi to BlackHat, and whomever else is flitting around in that mush upstairs above your eyes.  Can we say Schizo, boys and girls?

I think of Cheech and Chong:  dave?? dave’s not here! And I suspect most on this site wish that dave, and Sullivan, and BlackHat, and whomever else is lurking in the darkness that is your life, would NOT be here.  Maybe you ought to go back to your liberal’s Daily KOS hate site, where you all operate from a zillion spaced out personalities?  Just a thought!

Dear Mr. Hansen, You haven’t revealed WHERE you obtained your degrees. I am very curious.
As for my attitude about brains: well, there are many intelligent fools and many peolpel of meiocre or average intellignce possessed of great common sense. My contempt for you is based on the fact you accept lies, misinformation, idiocy and stupidities as being the truth.
In that regard, let us accept you pitiful fantasy that this country is headed toward a dictatorship. Why would anyone come for you with guns? Do you think you would represent any sort of threat? Quite the contrary, I think that you would be encouraged to go on spewing out your nonsense as you are doing now.
Getting back to reality, I repeat my previous question: why do you think I’m a Nazi and not a Communist? Do you imagine that I’m anti-Semitic, that I advocate the use of violence and murder to silence my opponents, that I want an hierarchical political system based on the Fuehrer Prinzip, that I think the US should invade other countries to acquire more living space for our rapidly expanding population, that I think that the state should control all forms of education, that I think that religious leaders who have the courage to criticize the government on moral gounds should be sent to concentration camps, that I believe in murdering mental patients and the incurably ill becasue they are “useless mouths,” that I believe teh government should burn books and “degenerate art,” that I believe that the ethnic or religious identity of scientists can corrupt their research and conclusions - as in the case of describing Einstein’s work as “Jewish physics”? Do tell.
Mr. Hansen, my objection to your ideas is that you don’t seem to be able to think clearly, that you are influenced by paranoia, that you frame so many of your remarks with references to feces (did you hang out a lot at the head in ships on which you served?) and that you can’t accept criticism of your ridiculous opinions without accusing such persons of treson or psychoses.
Finally, isn’t it time for you to call the FBI and the Marine Corps again? After all, I’m still on the loose.
Finally, why at a time of rapid promotions, did you rise no higher than Seaman, First Class over a four year period?

Dear Mr. Hansen, Before I submitted any blog to these various AIM sites, this is what you sent in:

“Sorry guys, I have to say something here, or I can not get email notifications from AIM so I can follow the comments - and OH! The Plot Thickens, and this is sure going to be great.  Between Cliff Kincaid, Jonathon Moseley and Mr Corsi’s book - Abomination, me thinks the American Traitor - Osamabama - is toast in November - as he should be - sorry MSM - Gore, Strike One, Kerry, Strike Two, and Osambama, Strike Three - You’re outa here - can Americans ever again believe even the most minor of items in your so-called newscasts EVER Again?

Now we just have to hope that at the Democrat Convention in weeks the #### does not hit the fan so fast that the Wolves in Sheeps clothing of the Democrat Party do not bring Hillary back - because I think Hillary can beat McCain - and even sadder than that is in November when REAL Republicans are forced once again to plug their noses and vote for McCain - and that plugging might just asphyxiate us.

Looking forward as Osambama slinks from the world stage as Edwards is doing right now as the scum that he is!!”

Consider your use of the epithets “traitor,” “Osamabama” and “scum.” That was only eight days ago. Yet you now insist that I and others “started this AND YOU KNOW IT.”

Mr. Hansen, you accuse me and others of lacking reason. What you seem to lack is honesty and the ability to remember what you wrote a little more than a week ago.

Worse, you have demonstrated you are a fool and a creep. What, exactly, does the word “Osamabama” mean? You indicate the link of a US senator and presidential candidate and a mass murderer who is resonsible for killing not only thousands of your fellow Americans but also hundreds of Moslems. I am curious to learn any facts behind such weird assertions. Even more perplexing is how you have not considered that if any such link exists, surely the FBI, CIA and NSA woudl have uncovered it. Those agencies have been keeping bin Laden under surveillance for over ten years. Surely if any connection between the two men existed, the intelligence agencies would have found it. Even more relevant is the fact that none in the Bush administration has ever even hinted at such. Don’t yu think that if such evidence existed, it would have been leaked? Consider the ferocious treatment of Joe Wilson and Valerie Pflame. If the Bushies had such dirt on Obama, woudl his arrest not been ordered? Would not the information have been used against him long ago?

But this is hardly my main concern with your statements. Do you know what a person looks like who has fallen 50 or 100 storeys, then smashed into the sidewalk? Have you considered why such people jumped from the World Trade Center towers? They faced a choice between a relatively swift death after impact below or being roasted slowly to death. Given the layout of the towers, most people trapped inside were not threatened by flame - breathing in which would have been extremely painful but would have resulted in a quick death - but by rising temperatures, as in an oven. I will refrain from describing the deaths of hundreds of Africans passing by our embsassies in Kenya and Tanzania. But consider being flayed alive by flying glass or, worse, dying after you had been literally cut in half, then dragging your entrails hanginf out five or six feet behind.
If your use of “Osamabama” is what you consider humorous, you are indescribable. What words exist to depict such evil thoughts?
If you are serious, then I face a similar problem on a far greater scale. You link a man innocent of any crime with one who has sadistic cruelty on thousands of blameless victims.
Or is your point to link one Moslem with whom you consider another, even though Obama never was and is not a Moslem? That is despicable almost beyond belief. Why? Consider linking Hitler with Pius XII because both were Catholics. (Is that, by the way, your “logic” in calling me a Nazi: Hitler was a Nazi and a Catholic [through baptism, as defined by the Church.] Sullivan is a Catholic. Hence, Sullivan is a Nazi.)
You seem proud of your education? I don’t understand why. You learned nothing beyond some facts. Education is not about memorization. It is about learning to think clearly and rationally. It seems quite obvious such is beyond you.
I no longer feel much pity for you. Out of your own mouth are you condemned. I wonder, are you among those Dante described in the Inferno and later popes stated was true about Sigismondo Malatesta, lord of Rimini? Someone already damned despite the fact their bodies seem to remain alive on earth? I never thought that such was theologically possible. Now I am beginning to wonder - at least in your regard. You seem under the yoke of “The Prince of Lies,” apparently alive yet already in perdition.

Copied from elsewhere

Dear Mr. Benitez, I am left completely baffled. I offered you the best advice I could and extended my genuine sympathy regarding how your wife was treated. I have explained in considerable detail how you could examine my credentials and decide if I am writing you the truth about myself. I am completely non-plussed by your notion I am irrational. My outbursts are reactions to lies and nonsense, directed at politicians innocent of such monstrous charges regarding their patriotism.
I’m not a Protestant. Catholics have a very different set of requirements regarding demonstrations of their faith. But I will point out one aspect of Jesus’ teachings you seem to have overlooked.
Remember that He said that all sins shall be forgiven, save only one? That is a hard saying, indeed. It completely undermines what Cathlics believe is the false doctrine of salvation by faith alone. (Luther’s interpretation the Epistle to the Romans). Jesus went on to say that a sin against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable. According to Catholic theology, the Holy Spirit is the person of the Trinity who serves as the guardian of truth and wisdom. I can hardly know what is in your mind other than the words you have written. But your inability to comprehend clear statements, your failure to recall what you yourself have previously written, your apparent fear of the facts (despite your initial denials, it was obvious that you harbored deep animus against the Church. It took quite an effort on my part before I dragged the truth out of you), all these fall into a pattern, one quite disturbing to me. But one should not judge so easily and with such little proof.
But on an earthly level, I have written what I have written to make some points. One is this: the introduction of religion into US politics is a disaster. It fills me with rage and dread. I have written about my Catholicism as truthfully as I can. But it seems my beliefs offend others, and points out that religion and politics in a democracy are largely irreconcilable. How dangerous and un-American to ask a presidential candidate to expound on his faith. How unacceptable to reject a candidate because he is LDS (Mormon). How insidious to define Islam as unfit for Americans and an impediment to holding political office. But all these I have witnessed over the past week or so in AIM blogs. THAT is why I have done what I have done, among other reasons. I have never done before and doubt very much that I will ever do again what I have on these blogs. But I felt that at a time when the separation of church and state was being violated beyond anything I have lived through before, I had to “speak” out, not hide what I believe is my light under a basket. (The prohibition of a religious test to hold office, contained in Article VI of our Constitution, has become effectively abolished in a completely illegal manner.)
Catholics suffered greatly in this country from the 1840s to the 1890s for simply practising their religion. The first major party candidate for the presidency who was a Catholic, Al Smith, lost the election of 1928 in large part because of his faith. It took until 1960 for a Catholic to win the White House and - ironically ,as we now know - he seems to have been a very poor Catholic. American Catholics thus have particular reason to support separation of church and state.
The essence of my point? In a country with ever-increasing numbers of non-Chritians, whether
immigrants from Asia or converts to Eastern religions, we cannot expect our democracy to survive if we use religious faith as a criteria in secular politics.
Therefore, given what I consider the vital importance of this issue, bluntness, rage, ungentlemanly behavior fall by the wayside in my opinion as guidelines to discourse. As Woody Allen said, when you face nazis, words do not suffice, you need baseball bats. In my case, I have used their metaphorical equivalent. One more point: you asked abut the Constitutional prohibition of titles. I explained the the original use of the word was to indicate a squire (hence the modern use of “esq.”) Such was he lowest of all titles granted by the crown. Where in the Constution is the passage to which I referred? Article I, section 9, point 8. As for the later use of “gentleman,” I have no use for concept. It is mostly a way to try to stifle opinions.
Finally, “aliterate” is as much of a word as “comsymp.” Buckley was attempting introduce his political biases into American culture, apparently inspired by the theories of the Italian Communist theorist, Antonio Gramsci. Of course, that means that Buckley must have been a Communist, right?

Dear dave, If, as I fear might be the case, I helped to get fantasies about you implanted in Mr. Hansen’s dark mind, I really apologize. I have my own agenda on these sites and I don’t want to drag you into what should be only my affair.
I realize, however, that Mr. Hansen must think I am blogging to myself. That, I must admit, is rather amusing in a strange way

Dear dave,
Since you and I are really the same person, sending blogs to each other is obviously a sign of a split personality. We need to re-integrate. Repeat after me:
War is Peace!
Truth is Lies!
Ignorance is Strength!
All together now!
War is Peace!
Truth is Lies!
Ignorance is Strength!
That’s it, we’re coming back together! How good it feels to be one person again.
...Ignorance is Strength!
...Ignorance is Strength!
...Ignorance is Strength!
Ah, I feel so much better now! Ignorance really IS Strength!

Seriously, I’ve never encountered people like you and I have in this blog, nor been in a situation like this. This is very, very weird.

Bobby is probably right in terms of how Kerry will be remembered, but not for the reason he thinks. Goebbels had it right after all.

What Bobby sees as Brian’s “ignorance” is a mystery. Perhaps he’d like to fill us in.

And That WOULD be a Trivial Act, OldNavyVet!

NavyVet 1972-76

Dear Master Hansen,

Regarding a Trivial Matter:

“Who bends not his eare to any bell, which upon any occasion rings? but who can remove it from that bell, which is passing a peece of himselfe out of this world? No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe: every man is a peece of the Continent, a part of maine: if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as well as if a Mannor of thy friends or of thine owne were; any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”

But it seems you don’t see things that way. Perhaps instead, you envision yourself singing:

“The bells of hell ring ting-a-ling-a-ling for you but not for me.”

Well the choice of what you believe is up to you. But the consequences of your beliefs are up to Some One else.

Dear Mr.OldNavyVet,
I will address maters in the order you made your statements.
1) In the US armed forces, proposed decorations for valor are investigated, approved or denied, awarded and bestowed at various levels according to the level of the decoration. Thus a Navy Achievement Medal with “V” for Valor or, one step higher, a Navy Commendations Medal with “V” is dealt with (I refer to the Marine Corps but the same general system applies to the other services) at what I believe is battalion level. In increasing order of rank up the so-called Pyramid of Honor, the Bronze Star, the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Silver Star, the Navy Cross and the Medal of Honor are dealt with at ever-higher levels. But what makes the system a bit confusing is that the person who actually pins on a decoration, the person whose awards office does the investigation or the vetting, the person who approves the award and the person who is ultimately responsible for reviewing the approval are different. In my case, MajGen Ormond Simpson, then 1st MarDiv commander, actually pinned on my Silver Star. But that matter went through LtGen Herman (“the German”) Nickerson, III MAF commander (whose signature appears on my award certificate), then to the FMF Pac commander, Gen. Buse.
Thus, in John Kerry’s case, Adm McCain was the ultimate approver. Given his combat background and the then-recent scandals about the US Army granting undeserved Silver Stars - subsequently revoked after courts martial for the guilty parties - Adm McCain took personal interest in such matters.
After the passage into law of the Goldwater-Nichols Act, with its reconstruction of the higher command system, and after Caspar Weinberger received authority to award newly-created meritorious service decorations, which previous SecDefs did not enjoy, the system is slightly different today. But it basically remains the same.
2) Under the Constitution and the later interpretations of the relevant clauses, an American can only commit treason during an officially-declared war for “giving aid and comfort” to the enemy. Despite the collaboration of some American PoWs during the Korean War - the nature of which varied from person-to-person - none were or even could be indicted for treason. Of course, such behavior was addressed by Pres. Eisenhower through the Code of Conduct. But during Vietnam, the same legal situation held true as during the Korean War, even under the Code of Conduct and the UCMJ. Few people know that among the hundreds of US PoWs held in N. Vietnam, there were a number of collaborators. The exact number remains classified but it seems to have been in the range of thirty, give or take a few. All the worse, these men were mostly officers and pilots, who had been carefully trained about PoW camp conditions - given the chance that they might be shor down and captured. (In the South, capture usually meant torture under interrogation, followed by a bullet in the back of the head.)
Despite their identification by their fellows in early 1973, none of these miscreants were ever court martialled. As I stated, none could have been charged with treason. But certainly they could have been charged under other articles of the UCMJ. Why Pres. Nixon did not so act is unknown to me. Personally, I found his inaction outrageous. But the man had a warped personality that continues to baffle me.
Now, as for Kerry meeting in France with VC and NVA representatives, he does not appear to have broken the law. If he had, wouldn’t it have made good political sense for Nixon or Ford to have ordered legal proceedings against him? Of course, you can consider his behaviour reprehensible. But I think the basic question is what were his motives and what was he trying to accomplish. Do you know? If not, look it up. 
While it might seem to trivialize the issue, consider that Henry Kissinger met in Paris with many of the same Vietnamese Communists with whom Kerry had. Remember, no such diplomatic contacts took place in World War II between American diplomats and German ones under similar circumstances - an attempt to end the war. The full documentary evidence of what Kissinger said and promised remains yet to be unclassified. But there is increasing evidence he lied to all and sundry. Certainly he did to Thieu and almost certainly to the N. Vietnamese he negotiated with. That, it seems to me, is far more heinous than anything Kerry did. But to this day, under both Republican and Democratic administrations, no government actions have been taken against Kissinger, despite evidence of various crimes, including lying under oath.
3) I quote you: “I do not hide behind anything.  I simply do not want to have to deal with loonies knowing where I live.  I am old, cranky, and a damn good shot.  If I told you where I lived I would have to kill you.  I do not want to spend my final days in prison for such a trivial act.”
This is a bizarre statement on several counts and pathetic along other lines. I asked you for a mailing address to send you my bona fides. Did you ever consider using a post office box or giving me an address for a friend or using “poste restante”? You are hiding your name. There is no doubt of that, is there? That strikes me as moral cowardice. I don’t hide my name or identity, nor am I afraid of the consequences. Why should you be? Do you think yourself so important?
And, even more extraordinary, what makes you think I want to kill you? I am mystified. Also, do you consider killing, even in self-defense, trivial?
I take it you have never killed anyone under any circumstances. I state that because you think that being “a damn good shot” comes into play. In my experience, that is not the case.
Hitting a paper target is completely unrelated to shooting a person. Why? Because of the emotions involved. Unless a person is a psychopath, it is difficult to kill anyone. We are taught not to do that and most of us are heavily influenced by such teaching. Remember what happened at the Munich Olympics in 1972? The Bundespolizei deployed their top marksman to shoot the Palestinain terrorists while they were about to board the helicopter provided them. But despite all his training, he could not bring himself to fire and helped make a bad situation far worse. Did you ever read S.L.A. Marshall’s “Men Against Fire”? While some of his research methods have been disputed, he calculated that only about 20% of the men in a US Army infantry platoon in World War II ever actually fired at the enemy. The Marine Corps acted on that appraisal and developed a number of methods to train recruits to shoot to kill. Even so, I had to take stern action sometimes in Vietnam to get a few of my men to fire at the enemy. In one case, which I remember vividly, I literally had to kick an M-60 gunner in his rear to get him to open fire. We were in an ambush and he couldn’t bring himself to shoot at VC who were not shooting at us and were completely unaware thjey had walkied in to our killing zonea. On top of that, I had some men (FNGs) repulsed by my use of CS grenades to determine who among the VC were dead, who were wounded and who were “playing possum.” That seemed the prelude to murder on my part because when I heard coughing, I threw hand grenades at the source.
Now, consider the fear that virtually everyone feels in a fire fight. It is simply not relevant if one is a good target shooter. Surely you have read reports of policemen who had scored “excellent” at the range, shooting wildly in a confrontation with armed criminals, often hitting no one or shooting their partners. I had two boyhood friends who became NYC policemen - a former Marine infantryman and Viet vet, in one case - who found it extremely difficult to fire back at civilians, even armed robbers. Hitting flesh and bone, especially at close range, seeing or, especially, feeling arterial bleeding shoot out, looking at the face of a man who you are about to shoot at to kill, dealing with your terror if they are firing at you - well, you don’t seem to appreciate what that is like. I killed 27 men with firearms in Vietnam, until I stopped counting. Could I do such again? I don’t know, to be frank. I called down fire missions on many more, including an entire VC battalion in Operation Maui Peak in the fall of 1968. Then I walked among the bodies or, more accurately, the body parts. I not only felt sickened physically but wondered if I had passed beyond my Catholic upbringing and beliefs. That’s the difference between shooting and killing. So don’t kid yourself. 
I don’t care one way or another whether you keep a civil tongue in your mouth. Your words and opinions strike me as those of an ignorant fool. Your first blogs to me indicated you are creep. In your last one you wrote about circumstances under which you would kill me. Nonetheless, I answered your questions. You never answered mine. So, I never will communicate with you again - although I may comment on your further inanities.
May God grant you a modicum of wisdom.

Dang! People sure do get excited here!

Note to Rob and Greg,

Spot on!  Since Brian will no longer communicate with me will you let him know that Kerry lost the election, and that in the opinion of an old navy vet who did not serve in combat (there was no war at the time) Kerry lost the election because we the jury, we the voters, saw major flaws in his character.  Some said it was because he voted for the war before he voted against it, some said it was because he testified before congress in ways that offended many older vets.  Some said it was because he came across, and still does, as an elite lawyer, eloquent and full of himself (sounds like the current presumptuous Democratic presumptuous nominee for President).  I digress.  When I first read this thread I was taken by the attack that Brian leveled against voxoreason.  I found it offensive that Brian attacked the vox personally rather than speak to the issue at hand which was Kerry, not vox.  Perhaps you can persuade Brian to debate Scott Swett, the author of the column, and leave us, to use his eloquent terms, imbecilic morons to discuss the issue of “ ‘Swiftboating,’ Media Myths and the 2004 Campaign”.

Perhaps you may know; is it true that Brian R. Sullivan is a lawyer?  His pontificatious style certainly supports that theory.

“... Perhaps you may know; is it true that Brian R. Sullivan is a lawyer? ...” -OldNavyVet

No—that’s another Brian R. Sullivan. There’s also a realtor and a judge by that name.

The person here posting as Brian R. Sullivan is most likely who/what he claims to be or has spent an enormous amount of time ferreting out details about the real Brian R. Sullivan, USMC Ret.

Frankly, I’m more inclined to believe the former.

Greg and Brian—you might be interested in pointing out and attacking the unreasoning and propaganda you find on Democratic Underground, Huffington Post, and Daily KOS—I presume you’re intelligent enough to find their exact web addresses.

More than enough loonies on both sides of this disingenuous Left/Right, Dem/Repub debate. What I’d like to see is people start posting their political compass coordinates.

Take the quiz at politicalcompass.org and sign your next posts with your (X, Y) coordinates.

My coordinages are very near Milton Friedman according to examples they supply: (6.00, -0.67)

I’m inclined to believe most posters here lie in the upper left quadrant in varying distances from the origin.

No combat opertions with US involvement in the period 1958-64? Lebanon? What is the date on the green and white RVN campaign service medal awarded to US service members? What year did US Marines deploy to Laos? During what years did US Special Forces train Cuban exiles for the Bay of Pigs invasion? Likewise, when did SEALS conduct recon missions in Cuba in preparation for the invasion? In what year were American aircraft shot down over Cuba during the Missile Crisis? In what years were US recon aircraft shot down on missions near or over the USSR and the PRC? In what years did US subs enter Soviet waters, often to be subjected to depth charge attacks? In what years did US Special Forces engage in support of Tibetan insurgents? During what years did US Special Forces take part in the pacification of the former Belgian Congo? In what years did US Air Force pilots engage Chinese Communist aircraft over the Taiwan Straits? In the period 1958-64, how many American soldiers were killed in engagements with N. Koreans in or near the DMZ? How many members of the US armed forces were killed in border recon missions along the Turkish-Soviet border or the Norwegian-Soviet border in 1958-64? How many US service personnel were covertly engaged in assisting India during its border war with China in those years? And these are hardly the only such examples of US involvment in armed conflict in those years. But they remain classified.
If someone in the US Navy really wanted to engage in armed conflict in those years, there were plenty of opportunities, as well as great willingness to accept volunteers for such missions. But a certain person lacked the cajones to take such risks. Clown!

Rob: You folks are arguing about past
events as if it is going to matter today.

Santayana: “Those who cannot remember the past are destined to repeat it.”

I think even the democrats view Kerry as a political loser. (Note that he’s not attempting another run!)

Besides, anyone who couldn’t beat Bush in 2004 (Even if the deck WAS stacked) doesn’t deserve a second shot.  I know lot’s of Republicans (myself incuded) who did not vote for W. It took a great effort for Kerry to AVOID winning!

Veal

“He did the liberal thing by testifying against his brothers in arms and that is what liberals are most proud of because they are so anti-war.”

He told the truth. Is that a problem?

“Swiftboat Vets got it right, Kerry was no hero and the majority of America believes it (2004 election proves it).”

2004 election proved that the smear worked, nothing more. the swiftboat vets were well compensated for their involvement.

“I guess you’re voting for Obama, the first anti-American Islamic Communist to be nominated by the Democrats for POTUS.”

Jesus, is that supposed to be funny? If so, it falls flat. If you’re serious, your credibility rating is a big fat ZERO.

Charles: “He did the liberal thing by testifying against his brothers in arms and
that is what liberals are most proud of because they are so anti-war.”

Dave: He told the truth. Is that a problem?

The problem is with your response. Kerry later admitted that he didn’t actually witness the acts he attributed to our troops, but “heard about” them.

Basically, “hearsay” testimony is inadmissable, so Kerry basically perjured himself before Congress.

Yes, that IS indeed a problem. Then again, he lost, so it’s not that big a problem for America so much as Kerry’s conscience, assuming the existence of same.

Kerry’s original testimony referred to what he had been TOLD. He did not claim to have witnessed the atrocities. (You people really should read more. It’s fun, and educational!)

Vox-

You’re not a lawyer by any chance, are you? Your understanding of hearsay evidence and perjury are sketchy. (I’m being KIND!)

Chuck-

Now you call Obama a “Hitler-like Socialist”. Do you have any idea what a moron you sound like with such drivel? Probably not.

For both of you clowns-

Four words: Lieutenant Colonel Gary Solis.

NEXT!

Dear Mr. charles,
Adm McCain certainly did read the citations he signed. He didn’t sign citations for vlaor decorations below the level of Silver Star. And personnel in the navy and Marine Corps during the admiral’s tenure aat Pearl Harbor certainly did not win thousands of Silver Stars. In addition, John Forbes Kerry came from a very prominent family in Massachusetts. Admirals and generals are very interested for poltical and post-retirement reasons in keeping an eye on the career and deeds of young men (and, now, young women) who come from such families. Finally, you need to look up what the present Republican presidential candidate said about Kerry’s swift-boating. That will make his father’s awareness of his father’s knowledge of Kerry’s actions on the Mekong very clear

vox-

I couldn’t agree with you more. One should not lie to Congress. Kerry didn’t. What YOU have confused is his actual testimony, which was to the effect that he was TOLD that atrocities were committed, with what you THINK his testimony was, which is that he WITNESSED those atrocities.

dave: Kerry’s original testimony referred to what he had been TOLD. He did not claim to have witnessed the atrocities.

You got it backwards, pal. The “hearsay” part was his excuse for lying before Congress.

His testimony was posted everywhere in ‘04. As was his subsequent excuse, Well, that’s what I HEARD.

Lame.

Three Purple Hearts = early exit from Vietnam.
Three Purple Hearts but no wounds requiring hospitalization or loss of duty time.
Three Purple Hearts and at least one “wound” self inflicted by careless use of ordnance.
Three Purple Hearts and not a witness scar to show.
Three Purple Hearts and every AAR written by Kerry himself.
Three Purple Hearts and at least one was REFUSED by his CO—who Kerry then went around to secure the award.
Three Purple Hearts and none required more than a band aide or light cover.

Kerry’s Purple Heart “ploy”,  his slander of my brother Marines before the Senate and his 4 month camcorder ticket punching tour in Vietnam - has earned my everlasting contempt…

People should know - the Purple Heart is the same award given men who lose legs, arms, eyes or their life…..... 
To pursue and accept such an award for the normal bumps and scratches warriors incur daily - was and remains a travesty….

To have gone to such despicable and fraudulent means to secure Purple Hearts - one can only imagine the skulduggery the bastard applied to secure the Silver Star….

The man has earned Zero credibility.

“I’m still waiting for your evidence on the Swiftboat Vets.  I have a feeling you will do the old Obama tap dance around it though.”

I gave you the tools you need to educate yourself. If you choose not to do so, that’s OK. It doesn’t make you a bad person.

I was right in the first place, your Obama comparison to Hitler is a joke. It just doesn’t have that “funny” part…

Very weak retort there Dave.  You provided no such resources, which is what I expected.  If you are what is considered educated in this country then I would proudly declare myself uneducated.

pizcaj: You raise some rather good and intriguing points: it’s going to be in interesting election. I haven’t yet counted Hillary out. Thanks for the comment.

To many of you:
I find myself amazed at your inability to reason regarding Kerry and his awards. Who was president (thus, commander-in chief) when Kerry rose to prominence in the anti-war movement? Considering that chief executive’s modus operandi, as well as his Constitutional powers, he could have easily opened an investigation into whether or not Kerry deserved his Silver Star and his Hearts. If there was any indication of false awarding of decorations, any evidence of “duking the system” (what a strange expression), Kerry would have been exposed and stripped of his medals. the fact that didn’t take place, when Nixon was in growing political trouble and eager to discredit the aanti-war movement, surely he woudl have done it. (I do hope you don’t think this suggests I was part of or sympathetic to most of the anti-war crowd. I was back on the Columbia U campus in September 1970 and became notorious for calling out those brainless wonders - along with a few more forceful actions on my part.)
Mr. charles,
Send me an address (you can use various ways to ensure it doesn’t reveal your real name and your actual address) and I will mail you my Silver Star citation. It would be pretty hard to explain how I could have taken credit for others’ actions as regards what is stated to be mine, In that same action, I recommended two of my men for any award that I received and three lesser decorations. (It wasn’t up to me to specify the medal, just to describe each man’s actions.) The results were two Silver Stars and three Bronze Stars awarded, as well as numerous Hearts. In addition to my understrength platoon, I had rounded up about a dozen stragglers to form a force of about 50. 17 of them died.
Now, I suppose I might be offended by someone asking if I stole any of my men’s decorations for myself. In your case, that is infra dig - to put it mildly. True, I received a PUC and an NUC, but so did everyone else entitled to one. Finally, how do you suppose I could go on leading an infantry platoon into combat, made up of men whose valor I had calimed for myself? Remember, those were the days of fragging. But I imagine you are too ignorant of what it was like to be a Marine infantry officer in Vietnam at the time.
As for Adm McCain’s knowledge of and interest in Kerry’s Silver Star: 1) re-read what I have blogged; 2) look into the matter yourself; 3) do some research into Kerry’s naval career in Vietnamese waters, which included more than his swift boat command period; 4) see for yourself why Adm McCain would have known of the Kerry family by investigating the family’s reputation. You sure don’t know much about the senior leadership of the US armed forces, do you?

Do any of you ever check out the facts?

The Bronze Star

The most serious allegation in the swiftboat ad is that Kerry received both the Bronze Star, his second-highest decoration, and his third purple heart, which allowed him to be sent home early, under false pretenses. But that account is flatly contradicted by Jim Rassmann, the former Army Lieutenant whom Kerry rescued that day.
A serious discrepancy in the account of Kerry’s accusers came to light Aug. 19, when the Washington Post reported that Navy records describe Thurlow himself as dodging enemy bullets during the same incident, for which Thurlow also was awarded the Bronze Star.

Thurlow’s citation - which the Post said it obtained under the Freedom of Information Act - says that “all units began receiving enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks” after the first explosion. The citation describes Thurlow as leaping aboard the damaged PCF-3 and rendering aid “while still under enemy fire,” and adds: “His actions and courage in the face of enemy fire . . .  were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.”

A separate document that recommended Thurlow for that decoration states that all Thurlow’s actions “took place under constant enemy small arms fire.” It was signed by Elliott.

Jim Rassmann was the Army Special Forces lieutenant whom Kerry plucked from the water. Rassmann has said all along that he was under sniper fire from both banks of the river when Kerry, wounded, helped him aboard. Rassmann is featured in an earlier Kerry ad, in fact, saying “he (Kerry) risked his life to save mine.”

On Aug. 10, Rassmann wrote a vivid account of the rescue in the Wall Street Journal that contradicts the Kerry accusers. Rassmann said that after the first explosion that disabled PCF-3:

Rassmann: Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river and a second explosion followed moments later. The second blast blew me off John’s swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river. Fearing that the other boats would run me over, I swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath.

When I surfaced, all the swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire I repeatedly swam under water as long as I could hold my breath, attempting to make it to the north bank of the river. I thought I would die right there. The odds were against me avoiding the incoming fire and, even if I made it out of the river, I thought I thought I’d be captured and executed. Kerry must have seen me in the water and directed his driver, Del Sandusky, to turn the boat around. Kerry’s boat ran up to me in the water, bow on, and I was able to climb up a cargo net to the lip of the deck. But, because I was nearly upside down, I couldn’t make it over the edge of the deck. This left me hanging out in the open, a perfect target. John, already wounded by the explosion that threw me off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself to the fire directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard.

Rassmann said he recommended Kerry for the Silver Star for that action, and learned only later that the Bronze Star had been awarded instead. “To this day I still believe he deserved the Silver Star for his courage,” he wrote. Rassmann described himself as a retired lieutenant with the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department. “I am a Republican, and for more than 30 years I have largely voted for Republicans,” Rassmann said. But he said Kerry “will be a great commander in chief.”

“This smear campaign has been launched by people without decency,” Rassmann said. “Their new charges are false; their stories are fabricated, made up by people who did not serve with Kerry in Vietnam.”

Do you suppose any of the men in the ad had an axe to grind other than seeking the truth? I’m not surprised that many felt that Kerry was a traitor to them with his testimony before congress. Unfortunately, that motive was obviously operative as they whored to the rich Republicans putting the Swiftboat ad together.

BTW, I’m not a Kerry fan and would not want him as president.  I don’t personally know how much of a hero Kerry was. And we’ll never know ALL of the real story. But people who were with him in RVN see him as a hero! And I DO know the extent that the powerful will go to discredit such a threat to Republican dominance that he represented.

(Oh, I suppose you’ll say my source, FactCheck.org is a “liberal” organization and not a credible source. But you can use it to check Obama’s (and Gore’s and Kerry’s) false statements as well.)
Black Cat #462
282nd Assault Helicopter Co.
RVN
(Not angry at Kerry - just think he’s a loser.)

All,

BTW, methinks Mr. Swett may have an axe to grind too.  And most of you seem to have a deep need for, or some sort of dependancy on buying all this misinfo without any scrutiny or critical evaluation.

Anyone can lie. Many people do. So always, when you hear or read something controversial, wonder if there’s a motive, an agenda. 

So what if Kerry really deserved his medals?  That wouldn’t make him a good president. - or likable! Y’all just couldn’t stand that a Democrat might win the election. 

(one of) The American sickness(es): If you don’t agree with the other guy’s politics, he must be a liar, moron, imbecile, idiot, anti-American, corrupt, cheater, pinko, rich basterd, socialist, corporate puppet, hitler, Islamic Communist, all of the above and more.

I can’t imagine that was really Anne Coulter on the earlier post. If it was, it’s the first time I’ve ever agreed with her.

Election 2008 - Here we go again…

Blackcat #462

Dear Mr. Veal,
Please re-read my previous blog on the award of decorations under the US system. Who pins on a decoration and who signs off on an award make up only part of the persons involved. By the way, the name of the decoration is the Silver Star Medal or, more simply, the Silver Star

An interesting book about our lack of success and lessons we failed to learn in Vietnam is “Learning To Eat Soup With A Knife” by (then) Lt. Col. John Nagl. Lending relevance to that book and Nagl’s “lessons” is that Nagle helped Petraeus develop the COIN strategy of the successful “surge” in Iraq.

Brian R. Sullivan,

I guess the most poignant statement you made in your reply was…“They fought a total war against us but we fought only a limited war against them.”
I also hope that Vietnam serves as a lesson that we can’t force our form of government, culture, or religion on other countries.

Thanks for your detailed, informative reply.

Dear Mr. Audubon.
I am a conservative and proud of it. I don’t think you understand what either liberal or conservative means. It might be a good idea to find out.
If you find what I blog to be boring, I have two responses. 1) Why read them? 2) Do you have any ability to understand anything but simplistic ideas? Any subtle or complicated thought, except in great lyric poetry, which I lack the ability to write, is necessarily longer than a paragraph.
Did you serve in Vietnam? Did you ever see any action in the Mekong Delta? It seems not from your ignorant comments. You don’t even seem to understand how to handle a small boat under tactical or combat conditions.
Even more pathetic, you accept what Corsi wrote as true. Have you ever done your own investigation into the matter? I very much doubt it. I imagine that you are too intellectually lazy and too lacking in any knowledge of how to do primary research. (Just how far did your education advance? High school?) You appear to believe what you want to believe, even if it is spewed out by a notorious liar, who has prostituted himself to the extreme right-wing in return for money. But a week of serious research in National Archives II and the Navy Historical Center in the Washingon Navy Yard would reveal how ridiculous Corsi’s lies really are.
As for: “On another subject, Lefty smucks are constantly beliddling the intelligence of conservatives.” Do you mean “schmucks” and “belittling”?
Finally, your logic in condemning all liberals escapes me. You mention four people who you think are fools. That’s your right, entirely. But I suspect the source of your rage is that those four are much richer, more famous and far more influential than you will ever be. Nonetheless, why does that provoke your jealousy? Have you no spiritual values? Are the superficial values that infect American society your values, too?
Finally, to describe ideas and opinions you disagree with as feces hardly refutes them. But that does suggest some very unpleasant aspects about your way of thinking.
I must say, that while I don’t know you nor want to, you strike me as a fool. I do hope that your grandchild grows up without being overly ashamed of her grandfather. But that is up to you.

Dear Master Hansen,
Were you and your identical twin separated at birth? Have you been looking for him? I think that I have found him! Who else could possibly write so much like you?
For example: “BRS: You still need to cite some specific evidence to back up your lengthy, eloquent crap.  Your opinion without evidence smells as bad as I sure your asshole smells.  And no I have not smelled your asshole, but you have.  You continue to come across as an elite pompous ass.  Goodbye!”
Or should I assume your paranoid reaction to recent blogs and believe that YOU wrote the above? Certainly it bears a distinct similarity to your writing style and method of making - I will be charitable - arguments.

Old Navy Vet-

“I brought the fact about the signature on Kerry’s Silver Star citation to BFS many posts earlier”

I believe Brian mentioned that McCain’s dad APPROVED the citation but made no mention of signature. Check it out.

And your most recent and quite bizarre post imagining the scent of another poster’s anus is telling. (Old Navy Vet or ODB? You be the judge.)

Scott Swett’s 15 minutes is winding down fast, so here he is rehashing his cut and paste lies in an attempt to garner just a little more attention.

The fact is that not a single substantive claim the SBVT made about Kerry’s military service has been proven true.  Not a single one.

On the other hand, their lies have been exposed over and over again, over the last four years.  For instance:

http://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/kerry_medals/truth.html

Mr kincaid I always read the articles on this site and today I ventured into the comments section. WOW!  PLEASE, can you do something about this childish behavior by the egomaniacs and liars dominating the site. Letting people go on for hours using thousands of words is no doubt recommended by their therapists but is getting tedious for the rest of us. Keep up the good work

dave: So my original take was correct. You are confused about what “hearsay” is…

Okay, I will concede the point that Kerry prefaced his remarks by identifying them as hearsay (his opening statements follow; hearsay is when you didn’t actually witness events yourself, but repeat what you have heard about them, much like gossip; Kerry does not claim to have actually witnessed these war crimes), so Kerry’s testimony was basically worthless, self-serving hot air. Note the line: “*They* told stories that, at times, they had personally raped, cut off ears,[long list of similar acts]...”

Note also that he says “...‘we’ had an investigation…” Who is we? (Kerry: “We call this investigation the Winter Soldier Investigation.” An anti-war group conducts its own investigation, and you take it as Gospel truth? Puh-leeze.) Kerry also says, “These were not isolated incidents, but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis…” Well, according to what Kerry heard.

I note that you haven’t addressed my Logan Act accusation (and won’t because I’m right). Both Kerry and Jane Fonda violated it and should have been prosecuted, while Fonda should have been prosecuted for treason. (Sorry to talk about your heroes in this fashion, but if the shoe fits…)

Kerry’s opening three paragraphs from the transcript:

“Several months ago, in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents, but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis, with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit—the emotions in the room, and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

“They told stories that, at times, they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam, in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

“We call this investigation the Winter Soldier Investigation. The term ‘winter soldier’ is a play on words of Thomas Paine’s in 1776, when he spoke of the ‘sunshine patriots,’ and ‘summertime soldiers’ who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was rough.”

I don’t see any part where they claim they were actually ordered to do these sadistic things, although they claimed the officers were aware of them. Telepathic sadists? Yup, that’s who I want to get my facts from!

Google Winter Soldier sometime. Many of his “... over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans ...” were no such thing.

John Galt: Google Winter Soldier sometime. Many of his “… over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans ...” were no such thing.

I had read about the faux soldiers (I am reminded of Forrest Gump, speaking at a DC protest, but his words were drowned out by feedback…yet the crowd cheered as though he had taken their side) and started to include this info, but dave doesn’t handle reality very well, so I skipped the headache.

;>)

Oh Fred, you card!

John Galt

Google Winter Soldier sometime. Many of his “… over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans ...” were no such thing.
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That’s actually not true at all.  Not a single vet who testified at WSI was shown to be fraudulent.

CTR

“Swiftboating” is entirely synonymous with “Catch-22.” John Kerry could only refute the charges of cowardice and egregious lying by allowing his service record to be opened to public inspection; but, of course, he cannot ever do this without proving the charges true.

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I’m curious, CTR.  Exactly which SBVT charges could be refuted by Kerry’s privacy protected records?  Be specific, please.

CTR appears to be serious in his claims, despite the preponderance of evidence to the contrary.

Whatever AIM compensates CTR for his posts, I believe he’s overpaid…

“I will take your remark as a compliment, although I suspect that you did not mean it as such. “

you are correct, sir!

“he/she attacks the messenger! (as you have here, as an avowed apologist for John Kerry’s craven and most infamous behavior).”

I’m an “avowed apologist”? Do you have some alternate definition(s)of the words “avowed” and “apologist”? If so, please share.

“There is a rumor about that to prevent future John Kerry Purple Hearts, the Army and Navy medics no longer stock bandaids in their kits,...”

I assume that’s supposed to be funny…

“Once again, the real tragedy of John Kerry is that he cost the Demos a victory when any politico of even average integrity could beat George Bush hands down.”

It’s safe to assume that “any politico” that the Dems put up against GWB would have been similarly swiftboated. To blame Kerry for the way he was smeared is odd, to say the least.

ctr,

You stated, “It’s still incredible to me that a candidate for the US Presidency would be allowed to hide anything, especially something that any Senate committee would demand in an everyday confirmation hearing”
I’m not at all surprised by this.
Democrat politicians will always enjoy the double-standard that the ‘mainstream media’ applies, as far as pressuring for the discloser of potential politically damaging information.
After all, this involved a public figure’s run for the highest public office in the world being thwarted by a nagging news story. If I were Kerry, I would not have hesitated to get this issue off the headlines as quickly as possible by allowing the release of my military records, unless of course, I had something to hide and would be willing to even risk losing the presidency in order to keep it hidden.
Kind of reminds me of when Bill Clinton wouldn’t release his medical records during the ‘92 and ‘96 campaigns, making him the only presidential candidate to do such.
His friends in the ‘media’ just gave him a pass on it, and it was all forgotten.
If I’m not mistaken, didn’t the ‘media’ also not really seem to care about how Clinton was allowed into the Soviet Union in the late 1960’s during the height of the Cold War?

The “swiftboating” crap came about as pure, partisan, gutter politics propaganda with the singular purpose of character assassination.  It accomplished the purpose its creators intended - - and ranks among the basest of politically-motivated attacks in the election history of this country.  And, typically, one dirty deed begets another, so the rightwingers shouldn’t whine and pine and moan and groan if leftwingers, whether on NBC or wherever, turn around and attack Ms. Moose Stew or any other of their political enemies in the same lowlife manner of the original “swiftboaters”.

Personally, I happen to feel that anyone who believes the story of Adam and Eve to be literal, historical, fact - - and that “we’re doing God’s work in Iraq” - - is just too simple-minded to be taken seriously.

“Palin never gave false testimony to Congress which demonized our troops with unsubstantiated charges of committing barbaric acts on the Vietnamese civilians.”

Yeah, well, neither did Kerry. He gave TRUE testimony. Does the name Lieutenant Colonel Gary Solis ring a bell with you? If not, check it out. It’s important if you want to discuss Kerry’s veracity.

Dave,

I just read some reviews of retired Lieutenant Colonel Gary Solis’ book entitled “Son Thang: An American War Crime”. It’s supposed to be an account of a 5-man Marine patrol which entered a Vietnamese hamlet and inexplicably killed 16 women and children without provocation.
As horrendous a war crime as this was, I fail to see the connection between this tragic event and your support of Kerry’s unsubstantiated testimony of our troops committing war crimes on a day-to-day basis.

As mentioned from 2 posts ago,

“None of the Winter Soldier “witnesses” Kerry cited were willing to sign affidavits, and their gruesome stories lacked the names, dates and places that would allow their claims to be tested. Few were willing to cooperate with military investigators. The Naval Investigative Service found that several of the veterans said to have given statements at Winter Soldier were in fact impostors using the name of real veterans.”

I’m certainly not saying that the US forces in Vietnam and in other conflicts were 100% pristine.
After all, one can find rogue elements in any organization such as in the police, religious institutions, etc. The problem with Kerry was that he was basically giving a hostile, blanket indictment of our military as a whole.

Dave,

I agree with your implication that Kerry simply relayed the claims of veterans who testified at the Winter Soldier Investigation, and that he didn’t claim to have witnessed the atrocities. However, now that the Winter Soldier Investigation has been exposed as being fraudulent for the reasons I specified in my previous post to you, did Kerry ever, to this day, denounce the Winter Soldier Investigation and apologize for his 1971 testimony that he apparently was duped by them into giving?
Also, if you’re right about Solis believing in the truthfulness of the stories that Kerry heard, then that’s not saying much about Solis’ impartiality or credibility because of the revelation of the Winter Soldier Investigation’s fraudulence . After all, how could a former Marine Lieutenant Colonel find credibility in the testimony of exposed impostors or ‘witnesses’ who refuse to sign affidavits, unless of course, it fit a certain political agenda of his.

As much as I despise Bill Clinton, if the Republicans carried out a thorough investigation of all the scandals that were connected to him, and it was discovered that many of the witnesses brought forward, were fabricating their testimony and ‘evidence’, I, as a Conservative, would call for their heads.

Dave,

I don’t know what the case of Marine Private Bobby Garwood has to do with the topic we were previously discussing, but since you brought him up….
I’ve read numerous articles about Garwood and discovered mixed accounts about his situation.
One claimed that he was a valiant POW who faced many years of torture at the hands of the Vietcong, another claimed that he voluntarily stayed in Vietnam and collaborated with his captors, and yet another said that the military sent out assassination teams to kill him and other POWs still MIA to avoid government embarrassment of knowingly leaving POWs behind.
A made-for TV film had been made about the case in the early 90’s.
I don’t know what the truth is in the matter concerning Pvt.Garwood, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out that the government did seek him and other POWs out in order to permanently silence them.
After all, in my opinion, the biggest villains in the whole Vietnam nightmare were the Communist North Vietnamese, the Soviets, and our own government who misled our brave soldiers into thinking they were fighting against Communism.
The least guilty were the 2.5 million brave veterans who were caught in a hapless and hopeless situation created by an inept, nefarious administration.
Any rogue elements within that 2.5 million, to me, represented a tiny fractional percentage of those who served unlike the claims made by the treasonous Winter Soldier Investigation.

Dave,

I think tragic events such as My Lai and the one documented in Col. Solis book are inevitable when fighting an enemy that hides among civilians.
The media that puts the magnifying glass over our soldiers, whether it be in Vietnam or Iraq, are the same media that gloss over the much more intensely vicious and wide-spread violence created by the enemy. The North Vietnamese forces that had infiltrated the South Vietnamese villages were committing unspeakable acts on the populace (which included rape and disembowelment’s) long before any American troops were sent there by LBJ.
I, for one, would much rather be a POW being held by the Americans or the British, rather than being held by the Vietcong or Al Queda.
Although you’ll find rogue elements in any institution (police, teachers, churches, synagogues, etc), a blanket condemnation shouldn’t be placed on said institutions such as what the Winter Soldier Investigation attempted to do with the majority of our military.

By the way, does anyone in this forum know if John Kerry has ever condemned the Winter Soldier Investigation for purposely misleading him and the American people about routine, day-to-day atrocities committed against Vietnamese civilians by our troops?

Dave, I feel, as I know you do from your previous posts, that we are not the world’s policemen, and that we should stay out of foreign entanglements.
But, in my opinion, the political power structure has benefited for a variety of nefarious reasons from these prolonged foreign entanglements.

Well Dave,

If it’s true that Kerry takes seriously an organization that was revealed to have been populated with impostors who stole the names of the real vets who were in Nam, or who refused to sign affidavits, then it’s apparent that Kerry wanted to believe their propaganda. If discredited sources are of know concern to him, then thank God, he didn’t make it to the presidency.
From the numerous sources I’ve referred to, the Winter Soldier Investigation is generally regarded as a fraud.
Alert signals went off in my brain when I heard that Hanoi Jane was involved in its conception.