They say history will judge.
I am waiting for the verdict on Mr. Zeifman’s subjects.
Oh wait, history can be rewritten.
Never mind.

There is one judge who sees all and knows all.  Thank God.

The prophet said; Verily shall you know that their is a God of Justice who reigneth on earth.

I would add jimmy carter to the list.

Jimmy Carter might be added to the list.  The NY Times, certain journalists?

Sad, but so many Democrats (and some Republicans) could be added to the list of traitors. Among them Kerry, Murtha, Pelosi, and Reid are the most rampant.

WWII started in September 1st, 1939, when Hitler invaded Poland.

My father, a WWII veteran, placed a copy of Caldwell’s “Captains and the Kings” on the dining room table in 1974 and encouraged his four children to read it.  We all did and what a lasting impression it made on us.  Although a “novel”, the Kennedy inference is unmistakable.

The CFR (Council on Foreign Relations), another, rather low profile organization with a very strong socialistic/communistic agenda is gaining influence daily and cause for concern to those of us who value freedom. Many former US presidents are members…

Jeremia said ” Cursed be he who keepeth his sword back from blood Let the righteous wash their feet in the blood of the wicked so that verily they shall know there is a God of Justice who reigneth on earth.”

Add Nancy Pelosi and her cohorts on their trip to Syria and her 2 House Members with their visit to the PKK with an attempt to have them close the Turkishg/Iraq border and stop resupply of our troops.

Add anyone who works for Time Warner at all levels (CNN, Time, Southern Living, People, Sports Illustrated, TNT), especially their double agents (and former double agents) who work for them an NewsCorp, including Kyle Petty, Bernard Goldberg, Larry McReynolds, Leigh Gallagher, Bill Webber, Nina Easton, Dick Stockton, Ralph Sheheen, Frank Caliendo, Jane Hall, Skip Caray, Pete van Wieren, Charles Krauthammer, Bill Kristol, Matt Yocum, and Adam Lashinsky.

“WWII started in September 1st, 1939, when Hitler invaded Poland.”

No, WWII actually started in March of 1936 when Hitler re-militarized the Rhineland in direct violation of the Treaty of Versailles and Chamberlain spearheaded appeasement by arguing that the action should be tolerated because Hitler had assured him he would go no further and the Rhineland had been German territory prior to the end of WWI.

Chamberlain and others ignored Hitler’s plan to implement the “Lebensraum” spelled out in Mein Kampf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebensraum

When Hitler observed he could get away with that, he then continued his arms buildup until he was ready to manufacture the incident on the Polish border as an excuse to invade Poland. Only then did the Brits and French move toward war.

“Jeremiah was a bullfrog”
- Three Dog Night

Yes, we have had many traitors to our country – and they are on both ‘sides of the aisles’.

I find the comparison of a man who writes a tattle tale book on this President to be listed as a traitor and not this President???????

This article is strange.  I’m thinking someone told him to write a hit piece on McClellan and this is the best he could do.

Treason?

THESE ARE minor issues, America.

REPUBLICANS SHOULD BE STUDYING NOW HOW TO PRESENT TO THE PEOPLE THAT THEY HAVE ALREADY BEEN BRAINWASHED BY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS NOW ESSENTIALLY DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS OF AMERICA.

ALL THE MAJOR DEMOCRATS WHO WON ELECTION RECENTLY ARE ESSENTIALLY COMMUNIST PROTEGES… STARTING FROM SEN. SANDERS OF VERMONT.

Don’t whine. Do something.  Shout it out.  Or else, it will be too late.  There is no way McCain win this election.

Discussing War In Iraq, Economy, etc.  will immediately make McCain cornered by Obama with a simple conclusion: Bush and Republican Party are the ones to blame.  Republicans are now labeled by this generation as Murderers.

Who is the first one to shout that this people are COMMUNISTS?

Stand up now. Democrats are full of activists who don’t sleep just get 1 vote for OBAMA.

Republicans, is there anyone here doing the same for McCain.

MAKING AMERICA REALISE THAT IT IS ROOTING FOR A COMMUNIST IS THE ONLY WAY TO DEFEAT THE TWO-FACED OBAMA.

The rest of the issues are just ploys by the Democrats to humiliate the Republicans.

I’m halfway with you there – but don’t leave out the other half – the Republicans.

Fact is, this war could not have happened without the full knowledge and compliticity of the so-called Democratic Party.

We DO NOT have two parties in this country – we have two wings of one party.  That one party is working in tandem to weaken, then destroy this nation.

Yes, wake up, but wake all the way up.  Cut those apron strings of party thinking.

Obama was christened, annointed and chosen long ago by those in power and it wasn’t the Democrats or Republicans.  The same media that through silence, helped this war happen, is the same media, that through adulation of Obama and silence of his shortcomings will get him elected.

Stand waaaaaaaaaaay back and look at the big picture.  The deconstruction of this country has been ongoing for over 50 years – no matter what so called party is in power.

I’m thinking the spector of communism is being put out there to give us something to fear or hate so we don’t think about what really is happening.

Lady Texan has sadly been poorly educated during the reign of Texas Governor Anne Richards, and has not been taught the true history of the Republicans.

Lincoln was a republican.

One of our greatest unsung heroes was Wendell Wilkie—who could have easily defeated FDR in 194O if he had followed the America First line of Lindberg and Kennedy.  Instead when he won the Republican nomination he supported FDR’s policies of aiding Britain stating “Politics ends at the Water’s edge

But for Republicans leadership in 1964 in support of Civil Rights act former KKK member Robert Byrd would have killed the act by his prolonged demagogic filibister.

Also, Lady Texan is spouting the old stalinist line of Henry Wallace that there is no difference between our two parties,

I suspect that she will vote for Bob Barr for president even though he walks both sides of the street and a darling of the ACLU as well as the libertarians.

I pray for the good lady’s soul

My soul can always use prayer -

As for my mind, and my memory – I lived through Ann Richards, and before.

This Republican Party is not the party of the Republicans who for many years before the Civil Rights travesty, championed equality of races.

The sad part and the problem comes when people do not realize how these two parties have changed.

Yes, it was the Democrats who fought equal rights – then suddenly they became the Civil Rights Party.  Suddenly they were the savior of all black people.  Suddenly they took upon themselves the mantle of the party that would be sure black people were treated fairly.

There is no resemblance, other than name, in the parties today and the parties of yesteryear, and no difference between the two – except rhetoric.

Think about the things that are hurting this country today, outsourcing, the globalization of our country,  the war, poor education, welfare, illegal immigration, the price of oil etc.  These are the things that are hurting this country. 

These things have moved right along through all the adminisration for the last 50 years – despite various ‘parties’ controlling the WH, and the congress.  It didn’t matter who was the majority, the agenda rolled along.

Oh, one will always come to the microphones with a hangdog look and say the majority ‘duped’ them or steamrollered them.  They talk as if the party not in the majority is completely helpless and knows nothing.

I pray for the minds of the people of this country to be opened and to realize that politicians and political parties are the problem.  That they are not our friends, and they are not working for the god of this country.  When we turn our thinking over to a party and vote their agenda rather than our own conscience – we have lost.

No, I will not vote for Bob Barr – although I always like his phrase ,’ That’s just silly’ – because so many things done and said in Politics are .

You know I thought the Republican’s enemy was Islamic terrorists – suddenly it’s communist.
When did Islamic terrorists stop being our biggest threat?  Have we won that ‘war’?  That was it last election – this one it’s communists?

No, the threat to our freedom and this country is in Washington and the corporate puppet government.  But if they can put up smokescreen of Communism, Terrorists, etc., we won’t realize that we have are becoming a nation of people unable to even provide food and clothing for ourselves and unable to afford healthcare.

Wake up—-

“That they are not our friends, and they are not working for the god of this country.”

Oops, little slip of the fingers there (hopefully)?

The Democrats are making the economy the issue in this election since the war is going well and our intelligence and military activities have been able to suppress both the terrorist groups and their attempted attacks. The Democrats lost the argument about the war, so they’re saying “Oh look, it’s the economy stupid!”

Anytime the economy is the issue, the Democrats’ natural tendency toward socialism and statism fires up the anti-communist rhetoric from Libertarians, Republicans and independents. Since the Republicans and independents don’t have a consistent argument against the welfare state (they buy the altruist argument favoring stealing from the rich to give to the poor), the Democrats’ consistency in the argument wins. The Libertarians are somewhat more consistent than Republicans and independents, but they tend towards anarchy.

That’s why both parties and the eventual compromises have drifted further and further to the left over the last 65 or so years. FDR started all the socialist programs and Johnson expanded and implanted them deeper in our national psyche.

Those two (FDR and Johnson) may be called traitors to Capitalism, but both thought they were doing what was in the best national interest. They were just deluded by the altruist philosophy that those with ability must sacrifice themselves for those without ability.

As to high oil prices, I think the Russians may prove to be the “hidden hand” behind it. Here’s a couple of articles that indicate that may be the case:

http://online.wsj.com/article_print/SB121317667583463853.html

http://online.wsj.com/article_print/SB121314210826662571.html

Yes, John, a slip.

The economy should be on the minds of everyone.  Although, there is always a little ‘tightening’ around election time – not sure why, but just an observation over the years.  They used to always say, ‘things will get better after the election – no matter who wins’.

We will disagree that we have been able to thwart the terrorists.  I don’t see much we have done that would accomplish that.  It’s possible the threat was overblown – much as the talk of communism is? 

If we don’t use right/left – instead say that this country has drifted – now speeding – farther toward complete government control, then we can agree.

That FDR and LBJ thought they were doing what was right for the country – I don’t think so.  Since I was a child when FDR died, I can only look back at that as history.  Some still think he was the very savior of this country – my Grandfather called him a ‘backdoor socialist’.  As for LBJ – no, I can’t give him the benefit of the doubt.  He knew what he was doing – as have all the rest since.

The rhetoric is all that is different.  Think about it.  Yes, the Dem wing claims to be the party of the people and helping the people.  They openly champion legislation for welfare – but we have to look, once again, at the big picture.

Who benefits from welfare?  The recipients – some although not really in the long run.  It’s destructive and demeaning.  So who benefits? 

The contractors who build and operate low income houses, and low rent housing.

Certainly healthcare providers and pharmaceutical companies do. 

Once the food program was surplus the government bought up to prop up farm prices.  I’m not sure buying surplus was a smart thing, but if they did it, then giving it to those who are poor seems to me to be a good thing.  But wait, the grocery companies and makers of junk food got left out of that program – so that semi-intelligent program was replaced with food stamps.  They were once limited to no foreign produce and no junk food (cokes, candies, etc) – now that’s OK.

Certainly Wal Mart, and others like them, benefit greatly from not only selling them food and medication, but from welfare recipients having more money to spend on Chinese trash.  Goodness, even China is benefitting.

There are more I’m sure.  Welfare is big business.

So, see,  it looks like the Dem are out there simply pushing government confiscation from some to give to other people.  In reality, it is bi-partisan confiscation of money to give some things to other people – but also to channel monies to big business as well.

And you know I can’t leave illegal aliens out of the problem – the idea of giving them food, medical care, education has caused the confiscation of even more monies. 

You will hear so many say it’s the fault of the ‘lefties’ that we have an open border and they only want votes, etc.  I know they know better.  The fact is this is simply confiscation of money from working citizens to give to subsidize the bargain workers for business.

Also, the biggest beneficiary of this confiscation of the fruits of labor is the size of government.  Our government has increased tremendously since the welfare programs were enacted – millions of government workers, millions of new rules, regulations and controls.

Always follow the money & power and money is power – and you will see that both those who claim to be touchy feely Democrats as well as those who claim to be Capitalists benefit from this idea of taking from some to give to others.

That’s the beauty of saying there are two parties.  One can appeal to one group, one to another and they can both work together, for their shared greedy agenda, each hiding behind their ‘labels’.

Personally, I think the welfare state has caused a lot of crime in this country.  That’s brings up all the monies needed to enforce, prosecute, etc.  How about all those millions to pay for the ‘for-profit prisons’?

I will read the articles on oil – thanks.

Money and power.

There are (or rather, should be) two kinds of power: economic power (wealth) and political power. Amendment 16 to the Constitution ceded economic power to the political power.

Too bad our ancestors bought the argument that the income tax was going to be a temporary thing to pay for the deficit spending of the Spanish-American War. They were hoodwinked and we are paying and paying and paying and paying and…

“Also, the biggest beneficiary of this confiscation of the fruits of labor is the size of government.”

Other than deleting “the size of” and changing “government” to “politicians” I could have written that myself.

Left versus Right.

By “Left” I mean economic collectivism as in (progressively left order) socialism, fascism, communism.

By “Right” I mean individual economic freedom i.e., toward laissez-faire Capitalism.

See the political compass…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_compass

Better yet, take a quiz and see where you are on the political compass…

http://politicalcompass.org/index

Texas Woman is an honest woman—straight shooter—who like George W. saws what she means and means what she says.

She makes no bones about admitting that her soul “can always” use prayer. My guess is that George Bush doesnt “always” need prayer.

As my namesake the Prophet Jeremiah warned: Cursed be those who trusteth in man. Blessed be those who truthet in the Lord,

I suspect that the good lady from Texas trusteh in no man.  I pray that she also trusteth in no member of the National Organization of Women.  mhe is need of as muc

Boy, Jeremiah

Nope, nothing like George Bush, please!!!

We, all, always need prayer.

I trust some men with things pertaining to men (few, that’s true) – soulwise, it’s God all the way.

Why would anyone assume I might have any ‘truck’ with NOW?

Down here in ‘Yellow Dog Democrat’ country, I thought my family was the only Republicans in TExas when I was growing up.  Conservative/used to be Republican – not of the ilk we have running the country today.

Someone called me liberal the other day – strange.  Although I don’t think the terms have any meaning any more.  Some people call anyone a liberal or conservative who simply disagrees with them.  It’s a term of damnation or insult, rather than anything else.

I’m trying to think if that was an insult or nice – the George Bush part wasn’t nice – I know that.

Dear Lady

I very much appreciate your kindness in sharing you prescient insights.

I am admittedly puncitilious disagree with you only on one point. Am vain enough to believe that after I go to communion and get absolution I usually can go for a week or so before sinning again.

Also, let me confess that I aint ever raped nobody, killed nobody, or stole nothin—I certainly can be booked on everthing else.

But reject your allegation that I “always” need prayer.  In that sense I admit I envy you for continuously having fun in sin.

God Bless Y’all

Your brother in sin

J

Well, see, you are a better person than I. I can’t go a week without transgressing in some way – a hour is tops.

Saying we all need prayers was not a judgement on anyone’s soul.  That’s not my job.  I don’t joke or am not flip about those things.

Every American should read this brief history of the period before Pearl Harbor when many powerful Americans were willing to acquiesce to Hitler.  I believe Winston Churchill should be remembered as the most important person in the fight against Hitler because of his willingness to stand firmly against negotiating with Hitler even though his own government members were in favor of negotiating.  There is a prominent mentality in the U. S. now, reinforced by public media, that thinks that all we have to do is meet with our enemies, discuss problems with them, and then trust them to keep whatever promises they make.  This is simply a re-play of Chamberlain’s dreadful experience in Munich before Hitler’s invasion of Czechoslovakia and Poland.  “Peace in our time” is never achieved by trusting people who have no record of trustworthiness, including American leaders.

We we’re all born with sin, it doesn’t leave us sometimes and suddenly were holy for a moment, so in retrospect we could use prayer all the time. I don’t think she ment your someone who NEEDS prayer all the time like your worse of a person than others. Like you said we can only put trust in the Lord, but you have to remember that because of Christ we have been forgiven and our life’s choices and beliefs can either be work for God in righteousness or for man in sin. God’s work IS bringing others to Christ not just standing on a podium telling others their doomed.
I don’t know you know at all besides a few comments but I do know that we ALL need prayer and it shouldn’t be taken offensively if anything I accept the Holy Spirit however I can.

I apologize to Texas Lady for not having turned the other cheek when she put me down.  I also pray for souls of all maligners of George Bush and ask God to “forgive them for they know not what they do.

I also thank God for Accuracy in Media, which is the only website I know of that has the courage to publish an article denouncing the father of the sins of Camelot for the moral degenerate and philanderer he was in truth.

Does any reader of the above article refute the accuracy of the facts set forth above re Joe Kennedy and his treasonous subordinate Tyler Kent?

If so please speak up!

bu

Justin said it well.  There was no putdown posted and certainly none intended.  I don’t use God or prayer as a put down, or in a casual manner.  That’s far too precious to me to be used in that way.

Also, I don’t malign Pres. Bush.  I speak my opinion of the man and the results of his actions.  I am truly fair and balanced, I speak out about wrongdoings and bad results of all of them.  That is not only my right, it’s my duty as a citizen of this country.  He is our employee – not our God.  I sincerely hope all people will wake up and realize that fact and see how this country is going, in general, not just this Pres – but all polticians.

No, I don’t refute the ideas in the article – as far as it goes.  The whole truth should have been told.  It speaks of a few working against the best interests of this country – but leaves out others.

There was nothing in the article about the corporations that did business with Hitler and allowed him to create the economy he did. He could not have waged war without that robust economy.  Corporations were more than willing to make money with Hitler. There was no mention of Granddaddy Bush and his dealings with Hitler.

The truth is always good – but a little truth is sometimes used to create ideas contrary to the whole truth.  That was the case in this article. 

I enjoy this site, but this isn’t the first time these things have been published about the Kennedy’s. These were not heretofore unknown facts.  It has been out there since John Kennedy first ran.  It’s always good to be reminded that those things happened.  It would be far better if we were reminded of the entire truth of who and all that helped Hitler rise.

Also, yes, some enemies can’t always be simply talked with – but we didn’t learn the most important lesson from Hitler.  We should not put profits ahead of doing what’s right.  We shouldn’t do business, increasing the wealth and power, of someone we know would turn that power against us some day.  China may just remind us of that very soon.

Some people seem to believe that the communists are intent upon taking over this country – through the Democrats.  Why in all this concern about communists, is there no mention of the fact that we are creating a huge economy in China, who is using it to create a very strong and very large military, and all this is being done because some corporations – and politicians – want to make a profit.  While we rail about what Mr. Kennedy did – and rightly so – we are blinded to the fact that our government is doing the same thing with China.  China wants wealth – but China is a communist nation.  We have been sold the bill of goods that if we just make China wealthy, they will give up communism and won’t be a threat.  That same rationale was made about Hitler.  They pretended they thought if Germany just had a healthy, robust economy, he wouldn’t dare risk it for war.  Hitler told the world what he intended to do just as China tells the world they are still very much communists.

Prayer and hope don’t put food on the table.

Reason, goal-oriented thinking and consistent action toward goals are the only things that ensure anyone’s survival, unless they prefer to live as parasites at others’ expense.

Not sure exactly what that means.

If it was my statement that I hope and pray the people of this country wake up soon, I stand by that.

I can’t open people’s minds and force them to use reasoning, to think for themselves, to act consistantly (and intelligently).  I can only do my own thinking, speak out from time to time, and hope and pray for the rest.

We have always put food on our own table, while hoping and praying.

Putting one’s faith in a political party or politician won’t put food on your table either, unless you are living off others.

I’m frustrated because I just wrote a ton and the website said there was an error and it all was lost.

Anyways I just wanted to comment on the fact that prayer is a proactive thing, you don’t just sit in your room all your life praying. God may use your prayer in others to fullfill but its not the most you can do. You have to be responsible and live your life as righteously as possible. That includes your studies, conversations, thoughts, actions and intentions. You can pray while doing anything because God is always listening. He wants you in connection with him in any setting at any time.

The misconstrued comments, hint people who aren’t informed or knowledegable in the particuliar topic, thus jumping the gun with rhetoric are something that I myself mistakenly do sometimes. That basic principal plays into this article and every other topic we debate about in our country. So many take a little truth to disceive or play the donkee and say everyone is wrong and they are right. Its ok to say your wrong because atleast your searching for truth. I and everyone else knows they’re are not in God’s seat, we’re human, some of us having incredible talent and intellect. But even the most talented and intellectual in history have had their problems and mistakes thus showing we all could be searching for wisdom and could use always use prayer not because we think its necessary but becuase without Jesus we have no hope and are lost.

It seems all too many people are ready to call others, particularly those of opposite parties, traitors. Some even have tried to call McClellan Judas like they did with Richardson when he endorsed Obama. That would presuppose that either Bush or Clinton was Jesus Christ. God forbid that comparison.

As a conservative Republican I say let’s face it, Bush has all but gutted the Constitution, being a front man for the neoconservatives, former liberals who were mugged but who have refused to press charges. They have a Machiavellian view of governance that sees the Constitution as an impediment to their agenda. Lest anyone dispute that, which of the amendments in the Bill of rights is intact save the Third, all in the name of trading essential liberties for temporary safety. And while a war with Islam was inevitable, Bush started it in an unconstitutional manner. As Karl Marx said, the road to hell is paved with the best of intention. Better yet, as Gen. and Sen. Carl Schurz said, “Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right.”

Nevertheless, from what I’ve heard about McClellan’s book, it’s a politically motivated hatchet job meant not just to embarrass Bush or to put the country right, but to also damage McCain. As bad as it is however, it doesn’t constitute treason according to the definition given by the Constitution, unless one defines treason as turning against a president or party constitutes treason. Nor can McClellan be impeached as Zeifman would like as his position wasn’t one that required Senate approval in the first place. But that doesn’t make what McClellan did right.

“Lest anyone dispute that, which of the amendments in the Bill of rights is intact save the Third,…”

Gee, Roberto, when did the 16th Amendment get trashed? I must have missed that.

After going through about 19,670 pages of IRS rules and spending 10 plus hours filling out the damn tax return forms, I ended up with 28% less income than I earned.

Where did that 28% of my hard-earned wealth go? Better yet, how much of the 12.9% of my income that was expropriated for FICA I will be able to recover from the bankrupt Social Security system?

Being in the “class” of people who actually pay taxes, I didn’t “qualify” for the voting stimulus “tax rebate” passed by our Congress and signed by Bush earlier this year, either.

While you’re at it, tell me what the result of the government spending nearly 40% of Gross Domestic Production every year while stealing only 28.6% of Gross Domestic Production from the people who create it will be for our children?

“They have a Machiavellian view of governance that sees the Constitution as an impediment to their agenda.”

It was Elliot Spitzer when he said “The Constitution is a dead piece of paper. We need to make the Constitution what we think it ought to be.” Last time I checked, it was Democrats (Spitzer being only one) who seem to have the attitude that trashing the Constitution to fit their collectivist agenda is a good idea.

Nevertheless, it’s politicians of all stripes who are the problem. They’re in politics for the money and power, yet they claim to be “the voice of the people.” That’s not Machiavellian, that’s Orwellian.

What if McClellan is telling the truth?  We don’t know – we can never know for sure.

We do know that the reasons for going to war – have been proven wrong.  Except that of deposing Saddam, (an afterthought)  which was not something we have the right to do.  So if the reasons have been negated, shouldn’t it make us wonder if there isn’t some truth in the book?

Why was war with Islam inevitable?  The only reason war with Islam was inevitable was the fact that we have been meddling, doing dirty jobs, and in general causing chaos, death and destruction in their part of the world for a very long time.  Then there is our support of Israel. 

Again, what does invading and occupying Iraq have to do with a war with Islam?

No, telling the truth about what a President did that was unconstitutional isn’t treason.  It’s funny that people are excusing what this President did and instead calling Mr. McClellan a traitor?  Aren’t we a little mixed up here? If what Mr McClellan says is true, then his treason was going along with, helping with, and keeping silent about the acts by our government.
Yet, he is being denounced, not for what he did to the country, but because he dared speak ill of a President.  Is there something a little wrong here?

Are we more loyal to a President, a mythical political party than we are to our own country?

You really should read some more about the history of the Mideast ladytexan. For example, who caused the problems between Palestinians and Israelis? The true answer is the UN in general, and certain Palestinian and Arab leaders in particular.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB121019679929074973-lMyQjAxMDI4MTAwOTEwOTk2Wj.html

Iran declared “holy” war on the US in 1979: bin Laden did the same in 1996. Iranian imams continue to lead chants of “Death to America” after every Friday prayer session. Iran and their Hezbollah and Hamas proxies have killed thousands of Americans in the last 30 years. Saudi-backed Wahabbis have promoted their hateful repressive brand of Islam world-wide for 80 years, culminating in the likes of Osama bin Laden.

Yes, this war against Islamic nutcases was inevitable because they themselves chose it.

Iraqis were shooting at American planes and pilots for 12 years before we decided to do something about it. Saddam was corrupting the oil for food program, and actively supporting terrorists of all stripes, and admitted his priority to reconstitute his WMD programs.

Doing nothing about any of this was seen by the world as weakness. Weakness, refusal to vigorously defend our philosophy of individual liberty and rights, and a preference for appeasement invited attack.

The Russians had only one diplomat kidnapped in Lebanon during the Lebanese civil war. The Russians killed the kidnappers’ entire families and then hunted the kidnappers down and killed them too. The never had another such incident.

To: Lady Texan,

Communism was a great threat in spite of the fact that a Communist economy is a crackpot idea. It was NOT overblown. Russia had thousands of nuclear weapons in spite of their bankrupt economy.  Don’t ever underestimate the danger of tyrannies that are basket cases economically.  Socialism is not as bad as Communism because it doesnt seem to lead to barbarism but it does lower the standard of living and weaken countries militarily.

The threat from Islamofascism is if anything greater than the threat from Hitler and Mao and Stalin because in Hitlers case he had no wmds and without them had zero chance to win over us and Russia.  Mao and Stalin weren’t crazy at least not in the way that Iran and Al-Queda are.

On the other hand Islamic terror could be easily squelched if we had the courage.  When they start devasting our beloved country with WMDs the cost will be far higher.  I am also terrified that Obama will try to make some kind of a treaty with them ANY kind as if any treaty with them is worth anything.

I think it is very foolish to say Bush should be impeached etc.  The Dems who say this are still angry about Bush v Gore and about Clinton’s impeachment.

Lee Tabin

“Socialism is not as bad as Communism because it doesnt seem to lead to barbarism…”

Same pig, different lipstick.

Is it not barbaric to steal from one person to “give” to another? Is it not barbaric to encourage parasites and promote dependency on the state?

Collectivism in all its forms is a fundamental threat to the life and well-being of the individual.

John, I never said they didn’t hate us.

As for the Israel/Palestinian situation, surely the UN had much to do with it.  I’m not jelled on the Israeli question.  All my life, I was taught by the preachers that we must support the Jewish people – than the state of Israel, because they were God’s chosen people.  I’m now questioning that.

I’m thinking we are seeing a parallel to the Israeli/Palestinian problem in our own illegal alien problem.  We have people coming here illegally, settling in, and if given the vote can greatly change this nation.  Some of them believe they have a right to this land because their ancestors lived here – read that took it from someone else, as did the Israelis.

The simple fact is, part of the reason for hatred of us is due to the fact that we do support Israel.  WE can’t deny that.  Whether we should or not, I’m not sure – but we have to own that fact.

I don’t think it is our freedom they hate – I think it is our presence.  Remember the Cuban missile crisis because we didn’t want Russian weapons that close?  So are the people of the ME supposed to be happy that we are doing, in their part of the world, what we said the Russians would do in ours?

As to Iran in 1979 – certainly,they hated us. Our history of interferring goes back farther than that.  During the 1950’s we had ‘people’ in the ME, meddling.  We put the Shah on the throne in Iran – that just may be part of the reason they hate us, part of the reason for the ‘holy war’.

But remember this PResident brought in the name of God a few times, such as ‘I consulted my other Father about the war’.  Is that anything like a holy war?  Lot’s of nasty things get done in the name of religion or supposedly with ‘God on our side’.

WE worked with Saddam and helped him because of the ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’ insanity.  That couldn’t have endeared us to the people of Iraq or to Iran, or possibly other ME countries.

We helped make a folk hero of Bin Laden because we wanted him to fight Russia.  Again, the ‘enemy of etc’.  He did not like the fact that we are in the ME, especially in Saudi Arabia, and used his position of power we helped create.

If someone kidnapped a diplomat in a country legally and only for diplomatic reasons, then certainly retaliation is in order – but only to the kidnappers.  That doesn’t give us the right to wreck havoc on a lot of innocent people.

As to the rest of the world thinking we are weak – my goodness the rest of the world has our number.  This war has cinched that.  We are bankrupt and borrowing money from China to finance this war.  Does anyone think that makes us look strong?  A war that was supposed to be a ‘cakewalk’ is now 5 years old???  I don’t for a moment think ‘strong’ is the word that describes what the world thinks of us. 

If we have a good philosophy that works for our country – there is no need to defend it.  Why do we need to ‘defend our philosophy’?  I don’t understand.  No other country can hurt our philosophy – only ourselves, and we certainly have no right to impose our philosophy on other countries.

As for WMD getting into our beloved country – just what have we done to stop that?  Get our army tied up in a war in Iraq (nothing to do with 9/11), bankrupt this nation, put our great grandchildren in debt to China, straining our military, stirring up more and more hatred in the ME, AND leaving our border open and inviting for any of those ‘nutjobs’ that might want to come in.  Not only that, we have so many people in this country illegally, they make a perfect cover for anyone wishing to do us harm.

I have yet to have anyone tell us what we are doing that is preventing terrorists from coming here and doing us harm.  A dozen of those ‘nutjobs’ could create more fear, more problems, more anguish for us than we can imagine.  I just can’t see they are all rushing into Iraq to face our army in order to strike terror, when all they need to do is get a few people across that Southern border, and do as they please.

We need to see beyond the flag waving, the drum beat, and see what is really happening and why.

If communism is such a great threat, then why in the world are those believing that, not outraged that we are destroying this country’s economy, building up the economy and the military of the biggest Communist country on the planet??  We are about to create a swarth of a highway across this nation to give unfettered access to Chinese goods – and the possibility of other than cheap, dangerous, plastic geegaws being shipped is not out of the question.

We need to step back and look at the big picture.

We are like the blind men and the elephant in this country.  Believe me the ‘elephant’ is a whole entity and we seem to have divided ourselves into groups looking only at a certain part of that elephant.

When did America First support the American Nazi Bund?

Michael

The leaders of America First did not support the German American Bund openly, but Lindbergh was an of Hitler—whom he knew personally —was also and “superman” notions of the Nazis. Search his name on the Web

Also, many German American Bund members were also members of America First.

Joe Kennedy was also a notorious anti Semite. Search his name on Wikipedia.com and numerous other websites.

To:lady Texan

i love texas. my grandchildren live in texas.

as to the israeli palestinian question.  i am not suggesting you are an anti semite but look at the realities and the history.  israel was a child of the holocaust. There was no “Palestine.” It had been a british protectorate and before that part of the ottoman empire.  The UN created an arab sector and a jewish sector.  The Israelis accepted it the arabs did not.  They tried to destroy israel with the intention (captured orders show this) of killing every man, woman, and child. the same thing was true in the six day war.  israel is an advanced democracy with no oil. If the arabs werent so demented in their hatreds that are thousands of years old, they could have peace and prosperity tomorrow. THe word “Palestinian” wasnt even in existence until after the six day war. Palestinians are only allowed to go to ONE arab country which is jordan. They are used as a sword against israel since regular war didnt work.

If Israel ceased to exist (lets say all the Jews there were air lifted to Sasketchwan and north dakota) do you believe for a moment the arabs would be satisfied.  Listen to what they SAY and what they DO.  They would simply have a greater appetite for europe which if you look at the demographics, they are going to get.

Israel is only country on earth besides here and possibly australia and canada where jews are welcome. europe is afraid of displeasing muslims and wont even teach that the holocaust happened.

besides israel has 400 nuclear weapons supposedly.  They are going to exist even if we dont want them to.

The final irony is that if Israel were overrun there isnt the remotest chance of a palestinian state.  The Arab nations would overrun it and kill “Palestinians”too.

remember saddam hussein killed more iranians and that is just one cohort of whom he killed than were killed in all the arab israeli wars combined.

LT

John Galt, you need to seriously reread my post lest you be considered aliterate. And before you make write something foolish, please look up the meaning of the word aliterate. You see, I find that many who think they’re literate are actually aliterate and prove they’re semi-illiterate when they claim others are illiterate, and I’m being alliterative.

Now for starters, I didn’t know the 16th Amendment was in the Bill of Rights as I was taught that the Bill of Rights was the first 10 Amendments and without it the Constitution might not have been ratified. You see, the Bill of rights is concerned with proscribing the role of the Federal government in order to protect the rights of the people and the states. By the way, should you wonder about the reason for the Bill of Rights, read its preamble. I know, they don’t mention let alone teach in our schools that such a preamble exists.

I assume you object to the 16th Amendment. So do I, but unlike some fanatics I don’t believe it was illegally passed. The libertarian tendency in me says that the best way to curb big brother is to put him on a serious diet by restricting his eating habits, the eating of our wealth. I think our Founding Fathers said something about that in the Declaration of Independence, a document we the people should dust off and take to heart with a vengeance, keeping in mind the reason Thomas Jefferson said the 2nd Amendment was written.

As for my comments about neoconservatives, out of the last 6 of 8 years the Republican Party has been in control of both houses and the presidency and still controls the presidency. Therefore I put much of the blame on the trashing of the constitution directly on Bush and the Republicans shoulders. Be aware, I’m a conservative Republican. The neoconservatives aren’t conservatives; they’re liberals in wolf’s clothing. As for the liberals in congress like Sen. Obama, they’re socialists, period. But only people with their head in the sand can believe that the Republican haven’t abandoned their 1994 contract with America and instituted instead a contract on America.

What happened to the traditional Republican principles of smaller less intrusive government, fiscal sanity, support of veterans, protecting of our borders, lower taxes for all, avoidance of unnecessary foreign entanglements including guarding of our sovereignty, opposition to corporate and government feeding at the public trough, and most importantly of the rule of constitutional Law?

Where in the Constitution does it say a president has the right to declare war or declare a right of preemptive strike as in the Bush Doctrine; where does a president get the right to suspend warrants, the right of habeas Corpus, or to allow surreptitious searches; where does a president have the right even in time of war to declare a US citizen an enemy of the state and to suspend all his constitutional rights; and where does a president get the right to suspend or abrogate treaties which are the law of the land? Please, explain all the foregoing to me or how the 16th Amendment applies. 

I won’t argue that the liberal Democrats don’t have as much disdain for the Constitution as does Bush and the neoconservative Republicans. Perhaps they hate it even more as a hallmark for decades has been their claim that the Constitutional was a “living” document; meaning it could be interpreted to anything they wanted it to say. But the hard cruel facts are that Bush’s legacy will be a tattered Constitution and the victory of a liberal socialist Democratic Part4y that will institute a socialist welfare nanny state and may well legislate itself into semi-permanent power thru such devices as the so-called Fairness Doctrine, the campaign finance laws, and the registering of illegal aliens. Then you’ll see how they can really misuse the 16th amendment, a tool by which a socialist state can be financed.

ladytexan, you need to take a course in history. Islam “meddled” in American affairs at the beginning of our history when it captured our merchant ships in the Mediterranean and made their crews and passengers slaves under the concept of dhimmitude. They demanded tribute that amounted to over 10% of our GNP in the name of the Qur’an under a Muslim Caliphate. In response we fought a 30 year war to stop them fro about 1785 to 1815. Do you know the opening words of the Marine Hymn? Is it From the Shore of Hollywood to Halls of Montezuma?

The history of Islam has been one of intolerance and aggression. Muslims at one time occupied an area from Arabia across n. Africa, from what is now Portugal to the Caspian Sea in Russia, N. Italy to the Baltic States, across the Balkans to Turkey, all of Palestine, and across NW India and China. Under the concept of Dar al-Islam they believe that any land once held by them belongs to them in perpetuity. The Crusades were mismanaged wars to rid European lands (read Roman Empire) of Islamic occupation. It was Islam that felled the last of the Roman Empire in 1490 at a small town called Kosovo and then conquered Constantinople and thereby closing off the Dardanelles and the Black Sea trading routes to China and India. This forced an Italian Jew with the help of the Spanish crown to sail west across the Atlantic and thereby bump into the New World.

By the way, do you know why WWI started? Perhaps the most influential man of the 20th century caused it by trying to free his country from the Muslims. Furthermore, it wasn’t until 1924 that the last of the Muslim Caliphate was expelled from Europe. Naturally Europe took measure to try and eliminate the threat of the rise of another Islamic Empire. But like with Germany and the Treaty of Versailles, they only created more problems. As it was the Muslims sided with the Nazis during WWII. But rather than crush them like the Soviets did to their conquered areas we helped them develop their oil potential. It was a choice of either the West doing so or the Soviets. Again we made many mistakes. Nevertheless, Islam has never given up the idea of recapturing the lands it once held in Africa, Europe, and Asia and defeating the Crusaders, the British and by extension Americans, ridding Palestine of infidels (Jews), and completing Hitler’s Final Solution for the Jews worldwide.

But I suppose it’s easier to blame the US and Bush for all the Mideast problems rather than make the politically incorrect acknowledgment that Islam was founded by an illiterate bully, thief, murderer, and child molester and is a religious/military/political system built on exclusivity, deceit, intolerance, and aggression. And please, don’t try to imply that I believe all Muslims either understand or accept such; there are many good Muslims, but they have largely been intimidated into silence, even in the West.

Lee, Well, thanks for not calling me an anti-semite.  That is a word that has been overused and has little meaning any more.  Forgive me for finding it typical that the fact I am questioning actions in regard to Israel, it would get mentioned.

Nothing is ever as clear cut as the history of Israeli/Palestinian situation is presented.  I’m wondering why any time it is questioned, the word anti-semite gets mentioned??? 

According to some of my reading, the Zionists wanted a homeland for Jews since the last half of the 19th century.  Israel didn’t seem to be their first choice.  Somewhere in North America and a portion of Turkey were two places they considered.

Yes, Israel ‘became’ because of the displacement of so many Jewish people during the war, but Jewish people had been migrating to that country for decades before.

Just me, but I’m thinking Jewish people live all over the world – I’m not sure why you would think they aren’t welcome anywhere but the countries you mentioned.

Yes, there was a time in places Jewish refugees weren’t wanted – even this country turned some away.  I don’t believe for a moment that is the case now.

I am glad you like Texas, so do I.  My grandchildren live here also.  It is my fervent hope, it will remain TExas, and not become part of either Mexico or some NAU, or be turned into a 3rd world cesspool.

There really is a parallel between the Israeli/Plestinian situation and what is happening in Texas now.  The culture of Texas is heavily Mexican. I always say – People of Mexican ancestry have been our friends, neighbors, doctors, teachers, lawyers, and family members (as in my case) since Texas came to be.  Much as it was in Palestine.  But to allow people from Mexico to simply come in illegally, and be given the right to stay and voting power will be wrong – very wrong.

As to my ideas about the Israeli/Plestinian situation, as I said, haven’t jelled – but I am questioning it. I always get this stuff about Ottoman Empire, etc., etc.  No one wants to talk about the fact there were people living there – who had lived there for many centuries – Jewish and Arabs.  They had co-existed for all that time.  The Jewish people began to migrate to that country before the turn of the century and still they all lived in harmony.  Then came WWII and thousands of homeless Jewish people ended up there.  They had no more claim to that land than did anyone else. In fact, they had less than those who had been living there – until the UN and the US decided they did. The fact that they moved in, got world sympathy, fought the British and finally got the state of Israel, still leaves some questions.  It still leaves some people whose homeland it had been for centuries, without a homeland.  It doesn’t matter what they are called.  Yes, they fought.  I’m thinking most anyone would.

No way did I suggest Israel should cease to exist – but to suggest our support of Israel has nothing to do with our problems with the ME people is folly.  It does – and in a big way.

Yes, Saddam had problems with Iran – the very reason we supported Saddam and helped him with weapons – so he would do the dirty work for us.
Could that possibly be one of the reasons Iran hates us?

By the way, not only is ‘anti-Semite’ overused, it is misused, as Semites are a much larger group of people than just Jews.

Do I think the Arabs would suddenly become peaceful, of course not.  But then if you look at our history, we haven’t exactly ‘been without war’ for very long this century.

ladytexan

I knew you would comment that i didnt call you an anti semite because i do not think your criticisms are unfair in the sense that they are born of bias, but i do disagree with something you imply.

i think there is almost a moral inversion going on among liberals and isolationists (frequently indistinguishable) that is most unfortunate.

it is not possible in my mind to take the side of a country whose leadership is only responsible to its security forces to a country which is a totally open thriving democracy.

ask yourself the following lady.  if israel unilaterally disarmed, what would happen?  they would be extirpated.  if the arab countries laid down their arms, they would have peace and prosperity.

the problem is that israel has to deal with a world that either hates it because it hates jews or a cynical world, maybe worse in a way, that wants to please arabs because of oil.  i honestly believe that if reagan had been president now and had the popularity he enjoyed, the islamist problem would have been dealt with long ago.

(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  (should u wish to identify yourself and email me—i mean make the email say you are lady tex.

LT

Lee, once again, I’m not suggesting that Israel not exist.  It does exist and we need to deal with the facts as they are now.  The fact is, our support of Israel – right or wrong – is a big reason for our problem with the ME.  What to do, I don’t know.  But to pretend it isn’t true, won’t help us find a solution.

To pretend the Arab people do not see Israel as having taken over an area where Arabs lived for centuries, doesn’t serve us well.

What makes you think the Arab countries would have peace and prosperity if they laid down their arms.  Not today – not as long as they own and control the oil in the ME, they would not.  Others would be after that oil. 

There is no doubt they are a warring people.  Just because I admit that, doesn’t mean I don’t think there are times they are justified. 

Again, look at our history in the 20th century. WE have either been at war, at police action, doing ‘operations’ in some country, for most of the time.

Roberto, my goodness. What happened in WWI, and what happened to merchants ships a century ago?  That is having to go a little far back in history, isn’t it?

The problems in the ME – today – goes farther back than this President – but not to the 19th century.

If the world took the Old Testament as absolute fact, then our God is a pretty bloody, cruel,  God who only loved the Hebrew children,and considered all others expendable.  Men were commanded (supposedly) to slay all men, women, and children at times.  Probably discussing the ancient aspects of one’s religion, doesn’t put the Jewish or Christian religion, same God as the Jewish religion,  in a really pretty light either.  If you want to look at ways the Christian religion has been cruelly used, there is plenty of history for that also.  I’m not sure, being a Christian, that I would use the history of their religion as a reason for war with them.  As I said, Pres. Bush said he had talked with his ‘other Father’ about invading and occupying Iraq and killing thousands of innocent Iraqis.

The fact is, we have been interferring in their world for decades – this century.  WE have put bloody tyrants on the throne in Iran, we have support Saddam, who we now say is a savage butcherer, our hands are not clean.  It is supposed to be justified because of something that happened a century ago? WE need to talk present history and the fact that it is having a effect on those people today – and there is no way to get around it.

We fought Communism for decades.  It was costly in terms of money and American lives.  Now we are giving foreign aid to Russia and taking in refugees.  We are helping, because of the greed of politicians and corporations, to make THE world power of China.  Communism didn’t die in Russia – even though some pretended it did.  China has made no such pretense.

Many countries were ‘friendly’ with Hitler.  Our own US companies and businesmen helped him become as powerful as he was.  Switzerland, under it’s guise of neutrality, helped him hide his stolen plunder.

If you want to solve the problem, and we need a solution, you have to look at things as they are.  To say the Arabs helped Hitler and not acknowledge all others who did, is not being honest with ourselves.  To say their religion is cruel and ignore our own Old Testament, and how others see it, isn’t being honest with ourselves.  To say that they were pirates in the 19th century, and that they helped our enemy in WWI, and not admit there are many others who harmed us as much or more, is not being honest with ourselves. 

Of course they are not totally blameless in this.  The fact is we need to find some solution to this.  WE won’t do that as long as we refuse to admit the things we have done to cause this.

What is the solution?  Exterminate all Arabs?

ladytexan, you’re quite right that the world anti-Semite is overused. Often it’s codeword for disagreeing with anything Jews or Israel does or of even their existence. Supporting Israel’s right to exist in Palestine doesn’t mean approving of all their actions. However, it’s disingenuous to say that when we use the term Semite in the context it’s being used that it doesn’t refer to Jews.

It’s also disingenuous to chastise me for referring to history of a century, actually 2 centuries and more ago, when the Muslims use it as a justification for their actions today. That the Muslims tried to exact tribute and Dhimmitude and admitted they had a right to destroy us as infidels at the beginning of our nation’s founding according to the Qur’an is a fact we had better understand. Yet we euphemistically call it the Barbary Pirates War. They weren’t pirates; they were Muslims acting under orders of the Islamic Caliphate. So the problems go back not only before this president as you rightly point out but also beyond the 19th century all the way back to the 9th century. If the founding books of Judaism or Christianity were built on the premise that either must defeat or destroy all other faiths in the entire world we would hear no end of it. Oh, I forgot, many liberals do claim exactly that of the New Testament and Jesus yet they can’t prove it, yet they readily accept as politically incorrect when it’s pointed out that Muhammad, the Qur’an, and the Hadith expressly taught such intolerance.

As for what happened in WWI, I’m surprised at your lack of historical eruditeness, although most liberals I’ve met also seem to have that problem. It was Gavrilo Princip, perhaps the most influential man of the 20th century, who assassinated Archduke Ferdinand of Austria causing a chain of events that led to WWI. He did so in order to cause a conflict between the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Russian Empire in the hopes of setting his country of Serbia free from the Islamic Ottomans. The assassination took place in a town you may have heard of, Sarajevo.

Unfortuanately it caused a chain of events that resound to this day.  Not only did the US become involved in the conflict, paving the way for American interventionist actions around the globe, the grossly unfair Treaty of Versailles which punished Germany caused resentment, nationalism, and the rise of Hitler and the Nazis, causing WW II. The same treaty also carved up much of the Mideast by weakening the Ottoman Empire leading to the fall of the Caliphate and of the strife in that region. WWI ended Czarist Russia leading to the Soviet Union. WW II resulted in the USSR becoming a superpower, exporting communism across the globe and inspired Mao Zedong. The Korean Conflict, Vietnam War, and the Cold War all probably would never have happened if the Archduke and his wife had not been assassinated while Princip tried to free Europe from the last of Islamic occupation. Indirectly, Gavrilo Princip may have caused the deaths of 200 million people.  But all of this was a natural consequence of Islamic aggression in Europe starting in the 8th century. All of this is basic history that you should be familiar with if you really want to understand the complexities of the Mideast today. But I’m glad you do realize it’s a complex issue.

Perhaps you’ve also heard of El Cid of Spain (Andalusia) and Charlemagne of France. You should look up their role in stopping the complete conquest of Europe by the Muslims. Connecting the dots in history can be quite fascinating.

It’s unfair to imply that the Jews really weren’t from what we call Palestine and that they should have a homeland in Europe, N. America, or Turkey. The Jews collectively always had the dream of returning to what is now Israel with Jerusalem as the capital although a few thought it might not be possible. As for the US creating Israel, again you’re wrong on your history. It was due to the Balfour Declaration which was enforced at the end of WWII that Israel was created. The Balfour Declaration was a British, not American. I would agree that standing up for what is right is causing the US lot of grief, and I also realize that many in this country would rather appease or retreat than do so. If we take that road I believe we will sacrifice our right to exist as a free nation. But perhaps I’ll have to go into the history of the region of Palestine to show you that the Jews have always had a presence there and a longer and more significant one than the Arabs, which by the way are what the Palestinians are. Oh, by the way, Iranians aren’t Arabs, they’re Persians. Furthermore, Jordan was actually created by the British as the Palestinian homeland, but that’s another story.

Let me mention that there’s really no correlation between the Palestinian/Jewish situation and the Mexican/American one. The Muslims want the country of Israel eliminated and the Jewish people there exterminated, some wanting to do so worldwide. I haven’t met or heard of an American who wants the Mexicans exterminated, although I’ll let you interpret the phrase and meaning of Por la Raza todo. Fuera de la Raza nada.

No, I’m not being disingenuous.  Calling or implying one is anti-semitic because one questions the Israeli situation is wrong – it is wrong because it is an attempt to silence discussion.  The word, itself, is wrong.  That’s not disingenous – that’s just facts.

It’s much like the LaRaza talking point of calling anyone against illegal immigration – a racist.  Mexican is not a race. 

If you believe the Bible, there were people living in Palestine, Israel, The Land of Milk and Honey, when the children of Israel got there. So they took it from others. That is ancient history.  The fact they once took it from someone else and lived there does not give them claim to the land.  Almost everyone’s ancestors once lived somewhere else.  That doesn’t mean we get to take over from present occupants if the going gets rough for us.

I am not ‘implying’ that they had not fled Israel.  I’m repeating what the book I am reading says about the Zionist movement for a homeland and this was in the last half of the 19th century,  Israel was not their first choice.  According to this book and as far as I have read, it doesn’t have an anti-Jewish tone-

Are we going to continue to use ancient history to justify continued wars?  If so, we aren’t going to ever have any kind of peace in this world.  That’s just stretching for reasons.

Standing up for what is right is never wrong.  Getting involved where we have no business is wrong.  Keeping meddling in other country’s affairs, keeping constant wars, or ‘actions’ going will cause this nation to cease to exist. We are well on our way.

While we are debating what Muslim pirates or El Cid did centuries ago, our government is putting us in debt to China for generations to come, while dismantling our ability to provide for ourselves.

Perhaps we should look more closely at recent history and present happenings rather than going back in time and trying to find some reason to make what we are doing OK.  WE cannot fix what happened centuries ago, even half a century ago – we can look at the present situation and look for a solution.

Middle Eastern people are angry, they are war like, they hate us – no doubt about that.  We are not, however,  blameless ourselves. 

The parallel of Israeli/Palestinian situation and that of the US, especially Southwest US and the illegals of Mexico is right there for all to see.  The illegals have moved in all over the US, but mainly in the SW.  They have been allowed to do it in great numbers.  WE citizens have been forced to subsidize their living. When they are given the right to vote, and they will be, they will begin making changes in our part of the world.  I’m thinking they will do as a past President of Mexico once said to ‘my people in the US’.  He told them to ‘vote and when you vote, vote with MExico in mind’. 

No I haven’t heard of any US citizen that wants the Mexican exterminated – just returned home.  I only hope when the Mexican control this part of the country, they will be as benevolent and compassionate with the US citizens as we have been with them.  I’m not counting on it, though.

Perfect parallel –

So while we debate ancient history, and fight ancient wars,  our country is being put in debt for generations, given away to Mexico, sold to foreign countries and dismantled piece by piece.

Ladytexan, like most demagogic liberals you’re quite aliterate. I said it was disingenuous to imply that claiming the term Semitic might refer to other groups (as the Jews aren’t the only Semitic group) when used in the context we were discussing. I also said it was disingenuous to chastise me for referring to history when the Muslims used history to justify their case. Not only are you seemingly quite illiterate about history, and proudly so, but you feel it’s off limits when the other side, including yourself, uses it.  Furthermore, not once did I imply or think that you were anti-Semitic but it seems you do protest too much, so I have changed my mind about your motives. If the shoe fits, wear it. I also guess you never heard the maxim that those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.

By the way, you give the perfect argument for expelling all ILLEGAL immigrants from this country. Being Hispanic I don’t want fellow legal Hispanics kicked out of the country. But I certainly want illegal (read criminal) ones kicked out. But you dishonestly, not disingenuously, implied all Mexicans. We’re a sovereign country with the right, no, the obligation to enforce our border laws. No country, particularly Mexico, has been as generous in receiving LEGAL immigrants as has the US has been.

All in all you make for a good liberal demagogue, blaming a very complex situation on America while ignoring history. Your last sentence even changes the subject, a typical liberal tactic, and is one I doubt you’d really want to debate with me. It seems you’re both unwilling and unable to learn.

I shudder to think of what is going to happen to USA in near future. Treason takes many forms. I live in Australia & if we become Republic like USA with all politicians ruling the people than GOD help us all. “Be ye in the world but not of the world.”  Supreme court is following their own Agenda.

Lady,
Would Sunnis be killing Shiites if there was no Israel?  Would Iran be hostile to the Sunni Arabs?

Did Bin Laden’s attack on us have much to do with Israel?  I doubt it since he didn’t even mention the Palestinians until much later.  His motivation for attacking the WTC (It is to Clintons everlasting shame-never mentioned by the MSM that he didn’t respond to numerous acts of war), was to draw us into his civil war.  He assumed all Sunnis would rise up against us.  They started to some until we began really hitting them hard and creating a disincentive for them to attack us more.

It has been speculated by some in Think Tanks that one reason we haven’t been attacked again is that if we are, we would then massively carpetbomb Waziristan in Pakistan and not worry so much about civilian casualties.

Clinton was grossly negligent in not killing Bin Laden cause there might be civilians killed. Just absurd.

LT

Robert, the response concerning anti-semitism was to another poster.  Everyone is always free to respond to a post, but you evidently missed the exchange.

It is much easier to brand someone with a label, such as ‘liberal’,  because they are asking you to think about something.  That makes it easier to follow the party line – and not have to give it any thought.  We really shouldn’t delude ourselves that way.  If you truly think about another point view and don’t agree – that’s one thing.  To just dismiss it and label, etc.,  because you don’t want to think about it – is dangerous.

I make a distinction between Mexicans and citizens of Mexican ancestry.  Once they become citizens, they are no longer Mexicans.  I’m not going to perpetrate the hyphenated Americans or the idea that we should be divided by our heritage.

leetabin,
Israel is just part of the problem, I’ve said that.  But is is a part of it. We need to acknowledge it is and work from there.  If you start to solve any problem with wrong data, you will not get a working solution.

Would they still be fighting each other – more than likely.  They have been for centuries – and we think we can somehow fix it?  We think we can fix it by pitting one group against another or creating so much chaos, they all jump in to take over power?

As for their fear that we will bomb some place into oblivion if we were attacked again being the reason for no attacks doesn’t seem right to me.  In the first place, many terrorists have no place.  What country would we choose to attack this time?

The attack of 9/11 was perpetrated mostly by Saudis, whose leader was supposed to be in Afghanistan.  We completely ignored the Saudi connection, went into Afghanistan.  That seemed partly reasonable – although I think we should not have ignored the Saudi part (but then they have oil).  So after we had taken over enough to place an oil consultant on the throne, and made it safe for poppy growers to once again send their poison to our streets – it was ‘Bin Laden, who’?  And somehow bombing Iraq, who had nothing to do with Bin Laden or 9/11, was going to solve our problems.

We have enough ME people in this country who can’t be happy with what we are doing to that part of the world and their relatives still there.  If, as suggested, all Muslims believe it is their duty to destroy infidels, aren’t we just inviting vipers into our bosoms?  What if a dozen of them decided to do something? If one ascribes to the ideology that all Muslims out to destroy us, then why support a government that is bringing them into this country?  I don’t buy the ‘savage’ thinking, by the way.

Pres. Bush, Sr., brought a large amount of the Republican Guard into this country after the Gulf War.

So does anyone see the disconnect here?  Some are justifying this governments actions in the ME based on the fact that ME people are warlike, hatefilled, vowed to extinguish all infidels (that’s us), savages.  Then they see the same government they are supporting in this action, letting thousands of those people into this country.  They see this government allowing the borders to remain open for any number to come into this country.

There are so many things about this government’s actions in this matter that just doesn’t seem to make sense. There is even more things in the arguments in support of this government that does more to point out the inconsistencies than to support the actions.

Lee, thanks for discussing this rationally and respectfully.

Roberto:

I did as you suggested and looked up alliterate (as aliterate is not a word):

Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers is an example of alliteration.

The definition states: The recurrence of the same letter in accented parts of words is also called alliteration.

Perhaps you need a brush-up on use of dictionaries?

Lady,
I always appreciate it when a liberal is respectful.  There is entirely too much sneering and attacking ad hominem.  If some conversation becomes uncivil, I do not pursue it.  And your answers and issues, while I disagree with some, are thoughtful and informed.

No, of course we do not exterminate the Arabs, however several things should be done.  Their biggest weapon (The Islamists) isn’t even terror. It is propaganda and then even moreso, demographics.

The reason Muslims have not been terribly restive here is that we don’t have a socialistic society where they can jump on the dole.  They also have prospered.  It is disturbing that whenever I talk to an American Muslim I am shocked by their approach, whether the Muslim is a Phd, a lawyer, or a NYC taxi driver. Most believe or say they believe that Bush and or the Mossad were responsible for 9/11.

What absolutely must be done in the Western World is the following:

1)Stop trying to appease Muslims by giving in to portions of Sharia law and by denying the holocaust in classrooms.

2) Make it clear that they can practice their religion peacefully and freely like everyone else but their religion may NOT spill over into seditious incitement. The sedition and incitement laws should be tightened.

3) Unfortunately for the present at least we must not permit much Muslim immigration as there is some troubling evidence that they do not want to assimilate.  Their belief system is quite different in that their polity has never been split from their religion.  They are something like a giant version of Bloody Mary with much bigger weapons.  They have the true faith and you better not argue…and then they kill each other. I think their society has some sort of a disconnect.

4) A disincentive could be created among Islamists if we took off the gloves (we have not used a fraction of a fraction of our power) and removed more regimes, particularly the Iranian regime which unlike the regime in Iraq is not splintered into many tribal groups.  having Iran with a bomb is insanity.  Our left wing lives in a dream world where they want to give non american citizens captured abroad who are not even prisoners of war the rights of bank robbers here.  Israel is stymied from responding to the endless rocket attacks by destroying hamas’s ability to make war by “world opinion,” which talks about collective punishment and “disporportionate” response.

Eric Hoffer believed that how goes Israel, so goes the world.  Think about it; there is merit to what he said.

By the way Lady, it is a pleasure hearing a thoughtful liberal talk..a rarity.  Most simply mindlessly fawn over Obama.

LT

Roberto:

I will grant that Amendments I – X are known as “The Bill of Rights.” My copy of the Constitution and its Amendments (published by the National Archives and Records Administration) shows only the following after the listing of the signers of the Constitution and before the text of Amendment I:

“Articles in addition to, and amendment of, the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress and Ratified by the Legislatures of the Several States pursuant to the Fifth Article of the original Constitution.” (Amendments I – X Ratified December 15, 1791. The Constitution itself was “done” September 17, 1787.)

Is that what you call the “Preamble?” If not, please direct me to what you are referring to.

As to the rest of your post, please provide examples of your assertions that Bush has done any of the things you allege with respect to violation of rights of US citizens or abrogation of treaties.

While only Congress can declare War, the President does have the power and duty as Chief Executive and Commander in Chief (Article II, Sections 1 and 2) to protect both the nation and its citizens against enemies both foreign and domestic. The War Powers Act modifies the President’s powers somewhat, but in no way precludes the president from using military force in emergencies, even (and especially) preemptively.

An interesting take on dealing with Islamic Totalitarianism:

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2006-winter/no-substitute-for-victory.asp

Another piece critical of Bush’s response and strategy for dealing with it:

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2006-winter/no-substitute-for-victory.asp

Hmm.. second link above should be:

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2007-spring/forward-strategy-for-failure.asp

lee, Thanks.

Truly I do enjoy respectful discussion – and debate.

““By the way Lady, it is a pleasure hearing a thoughtful liberal talk..a rarity. “”  Thank you, but that could be because I am not now, nor have I ever been a liberal.  I am far, far to the right of right wing. 

I realize it is easy to believe that if one finds fault with this wing of the one party, then one must be a liberal.  That is simply not the case.  There are many conservatives out here, not of the ilk of this administration (clue – the people in power are not conservative).  Many conservatives simply dropped out of the political process, and us old dinosaurs of older conservatives are passing from the scene.

Getting involved in other country’s business and government has never been a conservative position.  Of course, we do have those in power who call themselves conservative, but are simply greasing the skids toward globalization.

We are in agreement that we need to limit the immigration of Muslims and others whose plan is not to assimilate and become Americans. That goes for everyone.

I do not believe any religion should be allowed to be taught in schools, except in a historical context and then all should be treated equally.
I don’t think denying the holocaust happened should be taught.  I do, though, think the fact should be taught that it wasn’t only the Jewish people that were exterminated, but millions and millions more.  I didn’t find that out for quite a long time.  All I ever heard or was taught was that 6 million Jews were killed – nothing about the homosexuals, the Gypsies, the Catholics, the handicapped, etc.

Agreed, it is insanity for Iran to have nuclear weapons.  But why are we focusing on Iran?  When the Soviet Union fell, many, many nuclear weapons and plans went missing.  Who knows who has those?  Certainly Iran didn’t get all of them.  Certainly Iran isn’t the only country that dislikes us tremendously.  Might it be because the others don’t have oil or are not in the oil region?

Personally, I think China and it’s continued growth and power is far more of a threat to us militarily and economically than Iran ever will be.  No one seems to mind that we are destroying this country’s economy and building up the economy of a nation that is not/never has been, friendly to us – and that has an ideology that is not compatible with ours.

I think continued illegal immigration will destroy us far more quickly and successfully and completely than will any Muslim threat, or Chinese.  Although I do think the Chinese threat and the illegal immigration factor are entwined what with the Chinese owning both ends of the Panama Canal and the canal being improved, the deep water ports in Mexico, and the new proposed superhighway to give China a literal and unfettered ‘fast track’ into the heartland of the US.

We disagree on removing more regimes.  That is what got us into problems with Iran, and Iraq and to some extent Bin Laden. I don’t know enough about the history of other countries, I do know we were doing some things in Beirut during the 50’s.
I may be misreading you, but I don’t think we have a right to bomb, destroy, or replace rulers, because of propaganda put out by some nation. This country does a lot of propangadizing as well.  The case in point is the fact that we were left with the impression that Hitler only killed Jews.  And dare we mention all the hype and fear mongering prior to the invasion of Iraq?

As far as ‘taking off the gloves’, you know there are others who live in this world beside the US and I’m thinking we might run into resistance if we think we are going to plunge this planet more into chaos.  We do not have the right to make the rules, decide who is head of other countries, or what kind of government or theology they have.

We are not beloved in the world today and as our economy, our manufacturing declines and our military gets stretched and as we must more and more depend on borrowed money to survive, we do not have that distinction of being the ‘world’s only superpower’.

We no longer have the ability to buy our friends through outright gifts, sweet trade deals (China and Mexico have those) or through military protection.

Certainly one incident does not mean a lot, but my daughter and SIL recently took a vacation to a Carribean island.  She said the natives treated them well, (of course they were paying guests – so that’s a no-brainer)  but the other guests were either downright rude, or deliberately indifferent.  One night while they were recognizing the citizens of various countries and applauding – when they called out US and the US citizens stood, they were roundly booed.

What was so surprising was the fact the majority, vast majority of tourists were Canadian, UK and Australian.  I asked if these supposed friends actually booed and were rude and she said they were the very ones who did. 

On the plane back, a homosexual couple was discussing the rudeness and animosity they felt and thought it was because of their homosexuality.  My daughter told her no, she thought it was the American part.  A Canadian lady on the plane turned around and said, ‘no, it was, indeed, the American thing.’

A serious question, what would it take to bring peace in Israel and a better life for Palestinians?  I just don’t see how our machinations in the ME, creating more enemies for us – Israel’s biggest supporter – is helping Israel’s chances of peace.

Of course hitler didn’t only kill Jews but they were his main and first target and he was most successful at exterminating them.  Had he been left to his own devices he would have killed half the population of the earth or more. I think the reason Jews were emphasized was that he did kill more than half of the population in Europe and the hatred of Jews was a little different than the hatred of the others.  Jews were thought to be “threats” because of their intelligence. Slavs, Gypsies, etc were thought to be sub-Human.  Most of the racial invective he hurled was against Jews. I wonder if you think Jews have taken more than their share of pity since they are so successful.
I have been to Poland and visited Auschwitz; no one could visit there without gaining a greater understanding.

I am an old time conservative too, a Reagan conservative. YOu almost describe yourself as a Col. McCormick conservative. So you are allied in many ways with liberals on foreign policy and with extreme libertarians on domestic policy.  Is that the case?

By the way, in case you are wondering, I am not Jewish but grew up in a suburb that was one third Jewish. My first wife was Jewish.

There is simply no way to withdraw from the world.  We are engaged in a war for our survival and we will win. The only question is whether we win at massive cost or at minor cost.

I am so curious as to what you do or did for work and your background.

Best,

LT

Lady,
I agree with you about illegal immigration; talk about insanity. When we were in Eastern Europe we met a guy trying to get a three month visa to visit his brother, and a lady who was an engineer who had to wait years to immigrate.

I also think our attitude on multiculturalism weakens us.

I think the Global Warming crowd weakens us. Isn’t it revealing that they never want to use nuclear power.

The original prophet said “Cursed be those who doeth the work of the Lord with a slack hand.”

These days the “Neo Liberals” in the Democratic Party like Pelosi, Reid et al are doing the malicious work of the devil.

The true Liberals like Democratic Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska and other Democrats —who formed a successful non partisan coalition with John McCain to defeat Libertine Senator Kennedys amoral efforts for the first time in history to filibuster judicial appointments.

Sadly, Barack Obama has embraced Senator Kennedy and the libertine profligacy of Camelot
Obama and neoliberals, are psuedo liberal, illiberal and—like Harvard President Gwyn Faust—have made Faustian deals with the devil.

Let us pray for their souls along with the soul of the Lady from Texas .  Oh Father, forgive them for they know not what they do and say.

Also, pray for George W. Bush, who has erred too often by turning his other cheek to his demonizers and held back his slack hand.

Lee,

I am just an old country girl who after children stayed home and raised them.  We raised them in the country, growing almost everything we ate.

My background simply comes from being raised by very independent Grandparents and Parents who were very conservative and yes, probably somewhat libertarian.  My Grandfather was a firm believer that the government should just butt out of his life.

Well, no I’m not aligned with liberals on foreign policy.  Non-intervention has always been part of the old conservative mindset.  That doesn’t mean I don’t support having a strong military.  I just think it should be used to defend this country and not to interfere in other countries.

I also don’t think we have the right to attempt to impose democracy on anyone.  When you think about it, by it’s very nature, we cannot impose democracy on anyone – or freedom. 

Also, I’m not suggesting that Hitler wasn’t after the Jews – I can’t remember how many others, but I believe he killed several million others and they are too often forgotten.  That isn’t right.

I’m thinking if we brought our military home, put them on the border, stopped the drugs and illegals coming here –

I’m thinking if our government enforced our laws, the illegals would leave on their own—

I think if we stopped helping corporations bring in HB workers that aren’t needed, and began educating our own people to do the work needed in this country –

I think if this government would encourage companies to stay here and we began to manufacture the things we need for our survival -

I think if our government would look into alternative energy – all forms – rather than the ethanol insanity –

We would be a safer and stronger nation.

I am not anti-capitalist by any means, but I do think companies should be held accountable for pollution, dangerous and faulty products, etc.

I think the unholy alliance between business and government must be stopped.

I think if we made foreign aid, true aid to the people and not palm greasing to despotic rulers, the world would be better and so would we.

I think welfare is one of the most terrible things ever imposed on a people.  It is a huge waste of humanity.  It takes away one’s dignity and self-respect.

At the same time, I think it is shameful that we have so many prisons and so many homeless people, and that we, as a people, have so little self-control and responsibility, that abortion has become a solution.

I don’t want anyone, but certainly any child to ever not have shelter, safety,  food and medical care.  The way we go about seeing that happens is probably another discussion.

I was thinking about how the rest of the world may see us.  Imagine they are looking at the US and seeing all the homeless people, realizing how many people are on welfare, how bad our education is getting, the number of prisons,  how many Americans cannot afford healthcare (not a plug for government run healthcare), the number of abortions, the number of divorces, the drugs, the fact we don’t even control our own border, that we must import most all our needs, that the largest employer in this country is a discount retailer selling cheap Chinese merchandise, etc.

Also, I realize that Muslim countries are repressive to females – but there there has to be a happy medium between 6 and 7 year old girls dressing like Britney Spears,  wearing mini-street walker clothing, and the burqa.

We are an unhealthy nation, overweight (pointing at myself) but we are unhealthy in so many ways.  I am 67 and am so thankful that we do not take medication.  Everyone I know is on one, two or 6 medications.

Why would the rest of the world want what we have?  If we want to export our ‘freedoms’, we need to look at what else those countries fear they might get, by taking on our brand of freedom.

Lady,
I knew you were in my generation. I am 65 and I am urban. I grew up and still live in a burb of one of the biggest cities in the country. Just retired from business.

You write with such facility I thought you might be a journalist even though I disagree with some of what you say, I can see your abilities.

My wife IS libertarian.  She was an econ major in college and didn’t even believe in social security. Now she is simply a moderate Republican as am I.

Sadly I think that we need to ruthlessly defend ourselves, but as for spreading democracy, that is a tricky question.  That goal is hardly new to Bush.  Wilson tried it and is considered by historians to be too idealistic.  We DID bring democracy to Japan and Germany so under certain conditions it can be done.  Democracy is relatively new in the world and has only been stable in the English speaking countries.

I am not sure what you mean by an unholy alliance between business and government. Corruption in private enterprise is self correcting; such is not the case in the government.

You weren’t in the class ahead of me at the University of Chicago were you? Joke.

LT

Oh, my goodness, you are too kind.

No, no journalist, I just strongly believe in what I say and I am very concerned for my country.  I want to leave a better country for my grandchildren than I had.  Sadly, that is just not going to happen, but I would like to leave the hope of regaining it.

My family was passionate about this country and about politics.  My Mother and Stepfather were very active in Republican politics on a local and state level. 

Yes, Japan and Germany are success stories, this isn’t the same, and this is a far different world.  We were a far different country back then.  I’m thinking we could point to much of our country that others would want to emulate.  We were a good example for the world then.

Also, we had a lot of the rest of the world with us, we do not now. Be honest, we have/had Australia and England in Iraq – I’m thinking the rest of our ‘coalition of the willing’ were really the ‘coalition of those who could be bought’.

As I said, take a good look at the country, as others see it, and ask why anyone would want to become what we are.

I think there are still some very good aspects of this nation and a lot of exceptional people, but let’s face it, we are not the country of our fathers and grandfathers.

I don’t see how corruption in private enterprise is self-correcting.  When profit is their only motive with no fear of repercussions, except a few lawsuits, it doesn’t work. 

When pharmaceutical companies are allowed to get drugs on the market that are dangerous and do it because FDA’s honor is compromised, that’s unholy alliance.

When those same companies are allowed to have any lawsuits sealed, and continue to sell those drugs, without others knowing the potential danger, that’s an unholy alliance.

When our country is flooded with illegal aliens so corporations can have bargain employees, and citizens have funds confiscated to pay for the illegals safety net, that’s an unholy alliance.

When companies are allowed to pollute at will because as one business owner told me, ‘It’s cheaper to pay the fine than fix the problem.’, that’s an unholy alliance.

My Grandfather didn’t believe in SS either.  My Mother always told of the time in the local grocery store/Post Office/feed store, when she was a child,  they were discussing the new SS and asked my Grandfather if he had his number yet.

He told them no and he didn’t intend to get one.  They asked why, it was an insurance policy, it was individual and everyone would receive based on what he/she had paid.  They pointed to the ‘Not to be Used for Identification Purposes’ on the bottom.  That isn’t there now.

He told them the time would come when one could not buy or sell property, have a bank account, etc., without showing that number. 

My Mother said they had a good laugh at that.  Bless his heart, I don’t suppose even he could imagine all the ways we are forced to use that number and just how much of an individual insurance policy it isn’t.

He did get a SS number though, as he did contract work for the railroad and they would not allow him to continue without it.  He didn’t draw any benefits, however.  He died just after his 66 birthday, so whether he would have given in had he lived longer I don’t know.

No, never been to Chicago – or even near, maybe someday.

Lady,

I think you are too hard on Pharma.  In Europe they don’t even have access to latest drugs.  Europe used to have a thriving drug industry until people complained too much and it stopped being worth it for them.  Same thing could happen here.  Kind of like the attacks on Walmart.
Our medical care is infinitely better for all its faults than anywhere else.

And as to the world not liking us I simply dont buy that. HERE is where everyone wants to come.
eastern europe is exceedingly pro american..trust me on that one, and as i said before france, germany have elected pro american leaders and soon england will.

Now the elitists HATE america.  American elitists AND European elitists for different reasons..ignorance and jealousy.

What does your husband do?

Lady Texan and others somehow overlook the fact that we have not been interventionist in trying to spread democracy.  The introvertible truth is that we and our ally Israel have been attacked by muslim terrorists. So too we were attacked by the Japs and the Germans declared war on us.

Also as Churchill said; In this world of sin and woe many forms of government are possible. Of these, the worst is democracy—except for all the others.

John Galt

Before you tell someone “Perhaps you need a brush-up on use of dictionaries,” you should do a more thorough search. The word “aliterate” can be found on the following sites: Wordreference.com, Wordsmith.org, HavenWorks.com, thefreedictionary.com, merriam-webster.com, American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, and the one whose meaning I was using: the alphadictionary.com. That’s just a few sites. Please remember, most dictionaries are abbreviated. One of my favorite dictionaries, the Oxford Unabbreviated Dictionary likely would give me a hernia if I tried to check it out of a major library where I found it. 

By the way, I liked your pick of alliteration.

As for the Constitution, the following is left off most copies and books;

BILL OF RIGHTS PREAMBLE

Congress OF THE United States begun and held at the City of New-York, on Wednesday the Fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution

RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz.:

ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution.
                            ___________________________________________

As for what Bush has done first let me say that I agree with Pres. Teddy Roosevelt when he said that “To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” So surely you don’t deny the Bush’s claim of the Bush Doctrine, his claim that he has the right to declare a preemptive war to what he believes is a threat to the US. However, the Constitution doesn’t grant him that right and the War powers Resolution of 1973 is very specific as to what he can do and what his responsibilities are. Bush also authorized NSA to eaves drop on US citizens without warrants, he has claimed the right to declare a citizen of the US an enemy of the state (enemy combatant) and then strip them of their constitutional rights, he has permitted extraordinary rendition (so did Clinton), has essentially resorted to line item veto by the use of Signing Statements (again so did Clinton) such as saying he had the right to use federal funds to build permanent bases in Iraq without congressional approval or funding,  has claimed to be commander-in-chief of the country a right not granted in the Constitution, and claims he has the right to abrogate or not obey treaties such as the ABM Treaty and the Geneva Conventions (which by the way at least give out troops some protections as long as we abide by them even though neither the former Communists nor the Muslims adhere to them), to name a few actions that are likely unconstitutional. As for the violation of individual rights, ask Jose Padilla. I hope you will agree with what Gen. and Sen. Carl Schurz said, “Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right.”

My point it that while it’s quite true we haven’t had a subsequent 9/11 in America we mustn’t forget Benjamin Franklin’s admonition that “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Now I’m not arguing for appeasement or worse yet, pacifism. As a matter of fact, I agree with Teddy Roosevelt’s claim that “The pacifist is as surely a traitor to his country and to humanity as is the most brutal wrongdoer.”

I fail to see how the public has given up a scintilla of liberty.  It seems to me that civil libertarians are only concerned about rights for terrorists.  They sure aren’t concerned about the rights of people in elite schools to express minority opinions.

Just try being a Republican at some elite college or university.

Our neighbor’s daughter has a Phd from Harvard. She told my wife and me that if her dissertation advisor had even known that she was a Republican there would have been no Phd.  I met a law professor at an elite law school.  He had to hide the fact that he was a republican.

“Thank you, but that could be because I am not now, nor have I ever been a liberal.  I am far, far to the right of right wing.”

Hmm… you might be surprised. Take a quiz at http://www.politicalcompass.org and find out where you land on the Political Compass (look that one up on wikipedia).

Roberto:

None of the following dictionaries show the word, although I’ll admit that various dictionaries of English (both American and “Her Majesty’s”) often disagree: Websters Unabridged Dictionary (2nd Edition), American Heritage Dictionary (3rd Edition), wiktionary, nor dictionary.reference.com.

From the definition I found on freedictionary.com, I would vociferously object to being called aliterate. I love reading and do a lot of it.

The Preamble you quote looks to me like the Resolution to submit the 10 Amendments to the various State Legislatures for ratification, especially in light of its date some 2 1/2 years before final ratification. Very interesting… can you provide a link or other reference to where you found it?

I would not qualify as standing by the President right or wrong. I am extremely critical of many of Bush’s actions and policies, however my critiques tend to be his (and many other presidents’) failures to resist expansion of government interference in the economy or attempts to legislate morality.

With respect to intelligence activities, I believe there is sufficient oversight of what’s being done despite the disingenuous, partisan denials of Senators Rockefeller and Feinstein. I believe in the state of war, the objective is to detect and prevent enemy attacks, not prosecute criminals: that is the distinction between justifiable covert surveillance and warrant-less wiretapping.

Padilla and Hamdan both got civilian trials and all the protections guaranteed US citizens. Name any US citizen who hasn’t.

This is why lawsuits over so-called domestic wiretapping were rejected: none of the plaintiffs had “standing.” That is they could neither prove or convincingly allege their rights had been violated.

Extraordinary rendition has only been used to deal with foreign citizens: what would you have us do when we catch known terrorists and other miscreants who are peripheral to preserving the safety of our nation and its citizens but who may be of great interest to their own or our allies’ governments?

I really have appreciated reading all of your posts. While some of them based on ignoring the relevance of history have put a sour taste in my mouth though.

Lady texan, your heart is certainly in the right place in your view about America owning up to our actions in the past. In principal I wish we as a country could stick to how we SHOULD run the U.S. but unfortunately there are people in power that don’t have you or I in mind. But you have to focus on scripture because God has always had a plan and it WILL happen, whether we like it or not. Nebuchadrezzar II aka Nebuchadnezzar was granted his postion over Babylon by God just like George Bush was supposed to be in power in the U.S.A. He sometimes uses the ignorance and evil of men to do good. We’re all heading towards a world gov’t that is prophecized in the Bible. Whether it happens in our lifetime I obviously can’t tell but much of the Scripture has revealed much in today’s day in age. With that you can’t refute the past.

Perhaps referring to every single event in the past as a pretext or tool for the present might be excentric but history is something you HAVE to take into consideration to understand the present and future. If you don’t you ignoring the very Word I know you read. Simply, think of a pebble being dropped into a pond, you notice the ripples extending outward from the point of impact. That is history, continuing on in time and all being connected to origin. While some may be degrees away from eachother they have relevance none the less.

Roberto, thank you for the historical backing the reference to the 9th century conflicts between Christianity and Islam.

If you were in a history class and said that the wheel had nothing to do with our technological development today because it happened hundreds of years ago wouldn’t that sound absured no? Does the Market Revolution have nothing to do with communication today either? Just a thought that should be taken into consideration.

“…in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added…”

While the intent of the first 10 Amendments is explicitly indicated in that phrase of the Resolution (Preamble if you like) cited, a person involved in security immediately recognizes Amendments IX and X for what they are. Such rules are known variously as “default deny,” “fail locked,” “fail safe,” and the like. In civilian terms, they preserve the rights and powers not explicitly granted to the state and federal governments as the “inalienable” rights of the individual citizens.

Unfortunately too many citizens and politicians display a fundamental misunderstanding of the founding philosophy of this country: “democracy” i.e., “majority rule” was never the intent of the Constitution and especially the first 10 Amendments. The philosophy was individual freedom and self-determination with minimal social and political restrictions necessary to preserve civil order and resolve conflicts between individual citizens.

Note that the economic powers granted the government in the Constitution and Bill of Rights were extremely limited. Our ancestors threw our economic liberty away when they ratified Amendment 16. That one enslaved us to the politicians.

All available, objectively verifiable evidence indicates the Man created God, not the other way around.

“God has always had a plan and it WILL happen, whether we like it or not.”

A classic example of the inconsistent and illogical thinking involved in religious belief. The same people who make such statements also state that Man has free will. If one statement is true, the other must necessarily be false, yet “faith” insists that one must believe both are true.

Testing——

I’ve tried to post a long post three times now and it won’t let me.

Lee, I’m not being too hard on drug companies.
Certainly they do deserve to make a profit.

To think, however, that drug companies do not have very powerful, very ‘generous’ lobbyists and that congress and the FDA are not influenced by that is naive.  We know better.

To think that that much money being thrown around doesn’t influence what drugs get on the market, sometimes bad drugs, is naive.

For the law to allow them to seal a lawsuit in which a drug has been determined to cause harm, even death is wrong.  Just think how many people are killed or hurt by bad drugs because the public and doctors cannot have access to this information.

If a doctor has a patient and that patient is having problems, how much better would it be if the doctor could check to see if there was even a possibility some medication caused it.  How many people die after the first lawsuit for a drug happens (and is sealed) and the fact finally gets to the news?  How many who never make the connection or never know why their loved one died, or became a vegetable, or disabled?

There is a law being proposed to limit a person’s ability to sue for damages caused by a pharmaceutal product – if it has been approved by the FDA.

No, I’m not being nearly hard enough on them in that respect.

Yes, we do have a lot of new drugs, different drugs, and some are doing wonderful things.  Some are unnecessary, and some downright harmful.

We may have the best healthcare system in the world, I have no experience to make a comparison.
Just from the number of medical mistakes in my family, I know it could and should be better.

Yes, our freedoms have been compromised.  I’m thinking it has been compromised in ways we cannot imagine.  But most are just inconveniences because we comply.  That is a loss of freedom, but the real loss would be if we decided not to comply.

Why should I have to show a SS card, a federal document, in order to renew my DL, when I have had a license in Texas for 53 years? 

This won’t catch a terrorist, won’t keep an illegal from getting a license.

Why would a library, more than one, deny me access to a computer, or demand I give them all manner of information before using it?

With Wifi available by simply parking in front of some business, or using a neighbors signal,  some terrorist is going to walk into a library, stick out like a sore thumb, and plan attacks using their computers?

Why should I have to go in person to a bank, taking a SS card and one picture form of ID, and personally sign the signature card in from of bank personel, before I can be on a bank account.  In the past, my husband could simply bring home a card for me to sign and return it to the bank.

The same bank that demanded that, had a huge banner on their bank, in Spanish, that they would accept the matricula card to open a bank account.

None of these regulations are going to do much, if anything, toward catching terrorists, illegals, or drug dealers.  Yet they do cause honest people inconveniences, and could limit their freedom should they choose not to comply.

Economic reasons have always been the primary reason for people to want to come to this country.  Most, when they did reach here, truly wanted to become citizens and they were expected to obey the laws, and pay their own way.

Now, they know they can come here, receive their basic needs, if they can’t provide it themselves and in some cases, even if they can.  They know they will have conessions made to them as far as language, obeying some laws, regulations, etc.

The immigrants I have spoken with in the last 20 years, do not have the same reverance for this country or the true desire to be an American that the ones I remember from my youth.

I don’t believe most immigrants come here because they love this country or its people.  Not all, but for many, we are just a plum tree ripe for the picking.

“I don’t believe most immigrants come here because they love this country or its people.  Not all, but for many, we are just a plum tree ripe for the picking.”

So, remove the plums. End the welfare state. Renew the concept that the individual is responsible for their own survival and their own mistakes.

BTW, the limitation on awards in lawsuits was put on “punitive damages” not on recovering actual damages.

With the exception of native Americans we are all immigrants even my wife whose family came over on the Jamestown colony ships. 

This is where there is most OPPORTUNITY and FEWEST class distinctions.  I had a very bright cab driver once in NYC who was obviously educated.  He had been a banker in Nigera and he said and I quote. “Americans have no conception what they have; this is it. I can’t wait to get my citizenship.” Examples like this are legion.

That is not to say that all immmigration shouldn’t be legal.

Lady,
You sound like a severe libertarian.  I don’t feel my freedomms have been compromised except by idiot supreme court decisions that make our
country less safe.

I still have to respectfully agree on drug companies, oil companies, and companies in general.  Look at their profits as a per cent of revenue and you will see who is cleaning up and who isn’t.  Drug and Oil companies don’t exactly set the world on fire in spite of mythology.

Corruption in private sector will exist from time to time.  People are people, b ut in the public center it is systemic because performance isn’t necessarily rewarded.

Are you voting for Ron paul.  If you are, think about who will compromise our freedoms more, McCain or Obama..because one of the two will be president.

I think the greatest threat to our freedom is punitive taxation that creates disincentives and lowers our standard of living. The left would rather the poor be poorer if (except for them personally) the standard of living was lower.

Itabin,

So called “Native Americans” weren’t always here, neither. They may have been here longer than other peoples who later arrived, but are certainly not indigenous to this continent.
If the politically correct term “Native American” is to be thrown around, then as someone who was born in this (once great) nation 48 years ago, and who is of Italian and Irish ancestry, I’m as “Native American” as any American Indian is.

John, I’m with you on removing the plum, but we must be careful to not bring in those who must have the plum in order to survive, and that’s what we are doing.  WE can’t bring in people who cannot survive without benefits – and let them starve.

As to the limiting of lawsuits, I don’t think it is the tort reform concerning lawsuits.  It had something to do with the fact that suing in a state court would be questioning the FDA, etc.  It’s not passed as yet, if I’m reading it correctly..

Lee, I disagree, we are not all immigrants. That statement, as wrong as I think it is,  has no bearing on the idea that we need to put limitation on those coming here.
If we all arrived last week, formed the country, and made laws, we still have the right and duty to put limitations on those coming in the future, if it is needed to protect that country.

A lifeboat will only hold so many before everyone perishes.

Yes, the private sector will have corruption, but it increases if not checked and if protected by government.

No, companies don’t show much profit that pay their CEO’s millions in salary and millions more in goodies – or spend millions on parties, etc.
It’s their right to do as they wish with their monies, but forgive me if I don’t buy the whining that they don’t make profits.

No doubt others want to be citizens, and we ‘don’t know what we have’.  That doesn’t change the fact that what we have is a flawed system that other people are aware of and use to their advantage and that is one of the most attractive things about this country.

Yes, we have had our freedoms compromised.  The ones I listed, do nothing to make us safer, don’t apply to terrorists or illegals, and could certainly have an very limiting effect should we choose not to comply.

One could be denied a bank account, access to loans, operating a business, driving a car, etc, should I not want to give them documents to which they have no right and doesn’t make us one iota safer.  If they wouldn’t catch a terrorist or an illegal – how do putting those regulations on us, make the country any safer???

I agree taxation and the power it gives government is one of the greatest threats.

It really doesn’t serve us well to try to tell ourselves that people fit into some ‘group’ and only think what that group thinks.  There was a time when individuality was something to be applauded – Now it seems to frustrate those who can’t find a label for everyone.

Obama or McCain will be the next President – it doesn’t matter for whom I vote.  I’m thinking Obama and have since he came on the national scene and I heard the media gushing, but I could be wrong.  It will make no difference, though. 

With McCain, we might have a little more time.  I don’t think that will matter as long as we continue to throw out words like ‘liberal’, or ‘neo-con’ and refuse to just talk issues in our own words and not repeating the political mantra.  That is just a general observance and not aimed at anyone.

sorry for being so politically correct about native americans.

i fear this is most important election of our lifetime.  obama is about as qualified to be president as some college student body president.  it is absurd.

and i am not talking about ideology.

i think the reason for his popularity is that the media wants redemption.

lt

Lee,

We are in agreement on Obama, although you seem have a higher opinion of him than I do.  I think he is dangerous – very dangerous.

Just a feeling, but I’ve almost felt that he was groomed, created for this and to do something very detrimental to this country.

The media has been gushing, promoting and protecting since day one.  Any negatives, and they are not career destroying, have only come out since his nomination was pretty much assured.

LadyT,
First you said you were leaning toward Obama and now think he is dangerous…no?  Did i misunderstand something?

Obama is unqualified and naive. You are not the first person who thinks he is some sort of a plant.  I think the reason is, and I will be politically incorrect here, that the presidency should neither be a vehicle for redemption from slavery or some kind of an affirmative action program.  I never thought I would be agreeing with Ferraro.

I do not think him evil. I think he is an elitist academic type who smuggly are wrong about virtually everything.  He is a giant though compared to Jimmy Carter.

LT

Lee,

I don’t think I ever said I was leaning toward Obama.  If that was in one of my posts, it was a total typo.

I have been preaching against that man since the night I saw him make a speech and the media go wild over him.

I don’t think the support of him by the media has anything to do with his being a black man, other than to exploit the fact.

There are a lot of people, I believe, who will vote for him ‘because it’s time for a black man to be president’ or some such nonsense.

You and most of the rest of the country (probably) disagree with me on politics.  I don’t think they do things because they are liberal or conservative or because they have a conscience or truly believe this or that.  I think they do things to advance an agenda.

In short, I’m one of those ‘conspiracy nutjobs’.  I usually think there is a hidden meaning behind everything they do, I look for it.

The only thing I think I said was that I would probably write in Ron Paul, if I voted although I could see that McCain might be the lessor of two evils – barely.

lady,
i think that many people are for obama solely cause he is black.  he is virtually devoid of qualifications other than being first class rhetorically.

i think the agendas you refer to are driven by ideology and it is much easier to buy the democrat soak the rich or warmonger ideology than to have people understand real economics or that we have real unappeasable enemies.  our country has moved far far to the left.

Lee

I agree many are voting for him only because he is black.

Truly, I’m sure some do buy his rhetoric about the poor.  Not for a moment do I believe that is his agenda, however.  I don’t believe it has anything to do with Democratic or Republican.

It is bigger than that.

Certainly, we have people who would want to do us harm – but our real enemies are right here in our own country.  We can fight an enemy if we recognize it – we are being misdirected about who our enemy really is.

“Yes, the private sector will have corruption, but it increases if not checked and if protected by government.”

You have that exactly backwards, ladytexan.

Corruption in the government (or more correctly, corruption in politicians) is the far greater threat. Only politicians have the power to create laws to codify corruption and imprison citizens. No corporation, businessman, or citizen has either of those powers.

Corrupt business soon die a natural death. Customers and competitors quickly figure out what is going on and stop doing business with a corrupt businessman. Screw your customer and you drive them to your competitor. Drive your customers to your competitor and your business dies. Display corruption and your competitors will use the fact in their advertising.

As the con man says: “You can’t fool an honest man.”

Roberto:

Here’s an interesting quote by someone likely we both admire (certainly someone I admire greatly):

“A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the highest virtues of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means.” – Thomas Jefferson

And here’s an interesting analysis based on reviews of two recent books about actions taken by the Bush administration after 9/11/01:

http://online.wsj.com/article_print/SB121321954264665753.html

John,

Corporations own those corrupt politicians.

Business who cheat people do very well and do stay in business.

Some that don’t, get bailed out by taxpayers.

Honest people can and do get cheated everyday.  Old adages aren’t always true. 

Nothing wrong with making laws for wartime to protect this country.  They should be laws that actually protect the country.

They should be accompanied by reasonable action on the part of the government.

Hey Roberto:

Look at what some “fellow travelers” who share your view of Bush’s conduct write:

http://dummiefunnies.blogspot.com/2008/06/law-school-to-organize-bush-war-crimes.html

If any of the rest of you wonder what BDS means, read that. Amazing the levels of insanity that are generated by disagreement over politics.

Amazing the levels of insanity generated by political disagreement these days:

http://dummiefunnies.blogspot.com/2008/06/law-school-to-organize-bush-war-crimes.html

Lee and ladytexan,

It’s not so much that Obama is being heralded by the media and many of his supporters because he may become the first black president.
It’s because he may become the first Far-Left, Radical black president
Try putting a Clarence Thomas or Thomas Sowell on the ballot; they would receive the opposite treatment.
It’s always about politics and not so much about skin color, gender, nationality, etc.

Pizcaj – I agree that it isn’t because he’s black the media is heralding him.  Not at all.
That is what scares me.

Now I do think a lot of people will vote for him because he is black.  Some are black people, and while I think it is suicidal, I can almost understand it. 

I think there are a lot of white people who will vote for him because they think it will make them appear ‘intellectual’ or maybe it will make them feel so ‘good’ or so ‘equality minded’ or something like that.

That’s also suicidal – but then it’s no worse than voting for someone because they tell you they are a Democrat or a Republican.

I agree we will be VERY sorry if Obama is elected with a Dem congress (which will happen). I fear he actually does have principles but they are all the wrong ones. He has shown how a totally uncritical and slavish press can make someone a candidate.  Can anyone even imagine the reaction in the MSM if Bush said he had visited “all 57 states.”

I’m thinking if, and I feel I should say when, he is elected, it won’t matter who or what controls the congress. 

Just me, but I’m thinking the people in Washington will go along with him.  The Rep will write home and say they were hornswoggled or some such stuff – but they will go along.

In case you haven’t noticed, I’m very cynical where politicians are concerned -

Well Demcracy is a terrible system, but it is the best ever that man has devised.

I can think of one system better.  Absolute dictatorship but only with me as dictator.

Did anyone know that Mao Tse Tung had an offense on the books called “wrongheadedness.”  Our elite schools seem to have adopted that law.

I agree about the wrongheadedness.

I’m thinking maybe we didn’t give the idea of a republic enough time.  It sounds like a very good idea.

[...]  I always wondered about that statement as a child, but in light of evidence suggesting Joe Kennedy’s pre -WWII support of Hitler and Nazism when he was Ambassador to England, I believe Grandpa actually did know what he was talking [...]