Obama’s unreported associations with Frank Marshall Davis are the critical portions of this article.  The fact that “News” outlets will cover for people who are like minded is hardly worth the authors time to report. The fact that there are politicians who will jump in bed with any one of their supporters is Not News.  Most people are too busy to try to read a complete article on any politician so the writer should be right to the point with the facts and not beat around the bush. Obama is the candidate Not Edwards!

Edwards could not carry his own state in ‘04 (he was one of my NC senators in DC) because we know what a slime he is. He’s oozing down the wall mighty slowly (he’s had a long run, but it’s over now, although he’s still “in denial”) and seems to want to draw as much negative to himself as his political career goes down the toilet (at least in elective office: he can always be an “activist”; do intelligent people really take those who describes themselves as “activists” seriously? Those “activists” who may be reading this may feel free to “protest too much,” as it will no doubt be entertaining. “Activists”: what a joke.)

Obama has three major issues:
1) poor choice of friends (and those that are using him): ex-terrorists and communists are not the kind of people Americans want to see their presidents buddying up with, just as W did himself no favor by deciding that Putin is a human being instead of the dictator and thief that he is;
2) he can’t debate: take away the canned speech and teleprompter and, due to his virtual 180 on most issues he pushed in the primaries, and he’s wide open for McCain to clean his clock; note that he seeks as few debates as possible, so at least he’s self-aware to some extent;
3) he’s running on raising taxes and gas prices (I’m still awaiting the tax on cow flatulence): most Americans seem to be interested in neither.

McCain, of course, is a stubborn old fart, as simply reversing his position on ANWR would have an impact (I see this coming as he may be stubborn, but I don’t think he’s entirely stupid; I admit I could be wrong about this, but he enjoys the advantage of not being Obama), and while Obama could note the inconsistency, O has left himself open to many more inconsistencies.

I do not question Obama’s patriotism. I deny outright that he has a patriotic bone in his body, as clearly evidenced on several occasions, eg, the flag pin tempest in a teapot. He screwed the pooch on that one. Perhaps one of his kids will have picked up on this and explained it to him.

Noises from Hillary about Obama having problems with the white vote? (The black vote is static and predictable as they tend to vote against their own best interests in exchange for spending programs so the poor can have cable TV and generally live better than the average European; this tells you something about Europe, too.)

I may loathe Hillary, but never underestimate her. Has she released her delegates yet? (I’ve been dealing with deaths in the family and a marriage)

Swiftboating seems to have come to mean pulling a dirty smear campaign, defined by the media. These guys were over there with our movie star warrior and told what they saw. And we still don’t know why Kerry didn’t get his honorable discharge until the Carter Admin several years after our surrender and the funding cut off, nor has he lived up to his promise to release his military records, hoping that everyone will simply forget about those very few months in Vietnam.

In closing, let me add that “Charity? I don’t think so!” Al Gore is a puke and a liar cashing in on his Convenient Fictions. Some people think he’s the bee’s knees. He makes Paris Hilton look credible. Sad.

If the mainstream media misses Democratic scandals, no problemo! Fox News balances it out by reporting on scandals involving Republicans AND IDENTIFYING THEM AS DEMOCRATS!

fair and balanced, no?

I think it is WE THE PEOPLE who aught to do their homework and not depend on the paid off lying media. It is refreshing to have AIM reports as we know they are true. As for Hlllary..do you really think she gracefully stepped aside? Hardly. Every President has been promised the white house way yrs before it happens. Look at the Carter ass,,a peanut farmer, toadie with the help of TIME and media made him the man of the year? sick ! and look what he did. Soon as the converntion, old hillary will speak, then #2 man Obama the commie. who is arab not african, who is a muslim. for those who don’t know Islam, you are born into being one.no escape. but like they say..one can lie for Allah. the bible tells us men do not learn from history. that tells me LEARN ! The black people best realize Muslim’s used black for slaves and will again. To not look back to the million man march, bringing even the churches into it and are again today. Anyway, hillary will speak, bet it will be a great speech. then obama, and then yours truly Bill…clinton that is..IN the meantime it is mindbending to see Obama treated like Messiah. and such a liar all backed by commie’s and black panthers , mafia and Islam. where in the devil do you think he gets his money? Have you ever heard him say HE excepted the G-d of the bible? been baptised? NO..course with American schools with book in that are paid for by saudi..watered down history, G-d out, Islam in and America is bowing to hell itself, and they best realize once and for all..both Rep and Dem are NOT what they were long before Truman. and they are either going to wake up and realize we are a Republic..where we vote and the administratio serves US or a Democracy where we vote and they do as they dam well please. How far down do we sink before America stands up. After our guns and money and homes and jobs and businesses is gone?????? we have MORE oil than Saudi, in seven states. the drilling in Alaska is not even close to the animals. To put animals first and people don’t matter and stand with the tree huggers and pretend there is global warming. NO FOLKS the truth is it’s global warning. And Israel,,,there plan to take Jerusalem,,is challenging the G-d of Israel..HE is the LION of Judea..and HE IS A G-d of JUSTICE..He promised to expose the enemies of Israel and says all gov are ran by the god of this world..best wake up..and lets put in a Constitional MAN..an one who will stand on our Bill of Rights and Declaration of INdependence. LIke the ship ,,Titanic..is going down fast.as we LET THE EU and UN buy our land and hand it over to ISLAM..YOU DON”T like it now?? Well you are NOT going to like it soon enough. And remember ten nations will lead. Russia is one..and you thot Bush was fighting with them and China and Iran. get in the word..G-d never does anything without tellig us..and it is more up to date than media who are paid by gov to lie like dogs.you are all brainwashed by NEW AGE..and thats not new either..Hitler would be so proud..

dave:

I must have missed something, what Republicans were identified as Democrats?

Dave, who were the Republicans identified as Democrats by Fox?

Foley and Crane, repeatedly (and by CNN as well) and Whitehouse

Kim-

Yikes! Are you afraid to spell the word “God”? What’s up with THAT?

Dave is so full of it his breath stinks! I got a whiff of it when I read his stupid post.  Democrats are in denial about this just like they were about Bill Clinton.  They are “DIDs” Democrats in Denial.

Good one, Richard! I’ll bet you win all the schoolyard put-down contests!

my previous posts remain 100% accurate. What that has to do with “denial” is a mystery.

It is obvious that most of the writers above are republicans and are therefore not credible and balanced. Obama’s coverup? It will be stupid for republicans to start this since McCain’s scandal with the woman has not been fully resolved, do not bring that on yourself as the Democrats and Obama are trying to be gentle.
  Your biggested problem is RACISM. Stop calling yourselves conservatives or rightists, it confuses you to who you truely are. And stop listening to FAKESNEWS TV (You know exactly who)
This is a new world order, and to make it clearer you are standing alone. Most reasonable white Americans are the one pushing this. The time is past for those old politicians, in this new era is about substance. Obama Arab? foreigner? how small can you be? You know you cannot believe yourself. Get ready for the Dems, we will come up with Mccain SEX scandal at the appropriate time. We cannot let it die, plan is underway to bring it up just to pay you with the same coin you trade with.
  One for those of you thinking is he patriotic?, sticking American flag up your ass, or as your underwear or even as a pendant could be a way of easily fooling the American people. As an advise to you , if you do not have your facts together then close your mouth.

Paschal-

Yikes! With Dems like that who needs enemies?

Sure, Edwards seemed well-liked and, perhaps even, protected by the media, but I don’t see how his recent admission of an affair has any bearing on Obama or some possible connection to a Marxist. If there is evidence of that, let’s hear it…otherwise, let’s get onto something that matters.

The truth is that the media covers up for both sides…let’s talk about Karl Rove. Let’s talk about John McCain. Let’s talk about the willing suspension of curiosity by the media in the run-up to the War in Iraq. WMD, anyone? The Iraq-9/11 connection.

The media and propaganda machine of the US is about protecting the rich against the unwashed masses. The media protects Republicans, Democrats, and anyone with money. This is not about LEFT or RIGHT, but about RICH vs. POOR.

And if you make less than $250,000/year, you’re on the POOR team…

If you really want a new perspective, try reading news from outside our country. Read an article about our president written by a European…see their perspective once or twice. See how media works in foreign countries. You will learn something about our system; I guarantee it.

Try China:
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/index.htm

Or Russia:
http://english.pravda.ru/allnews_en.html

Or Al-Jazeera:
http://english.aljazeera.net/

Dave,

It is Jewish custom to write G-D instead of God. I learned this reading Jewish websites. The editor of one explained this to me.

That’s what’s up with that. I assume that you are an anti-Semite just as you assume that I am a racist for holding Obama in utter contempt. (Actually, I don’t make this assumption about you, but it illustrates my point.)

And while I’m at it, Sunday afternoon Chris Wallace spent an hour exposing wasteful, self-serving “pork” (earmarks).

To the best of my recollection, he didn’t feature a single democrat. But I haven’t drunk the Kool-Aid (do you use a glass or simply drink right out of the pitcher?), so I don’t defend or ignore republican misconduct, usually referring to the GOP as “spineless slugs.”

Sadly, the GOP is the lesser of two evils.

This racism nonsense won’t work. There ARE qualified, acceptable black men I would vote for, but Obama doesn’t meet those criteria. He is a clear and present danger to our country. He is supported by the ignorant and uninformed (and those who don’t want to be on the outs with him should he get the top spot, which grows more unlikely by the day; he will keep the black vote, but that’s a “gimme”).

Forget the McCain chick thing. John Edwards is much more entertaining as HE has a “love child” to contend with…and a designated fall guy from his staff, who is probably much richer than when this scandal began in ‘07.

I’m no fan of Mrs John Edwards, but my heart goes out to her over this utter betrayal by her slimy, lying husband. She’s got terminal cancer, but battled for his nomination; meanwhile, he dips his wick in a “campaign aide.” At least Bubba was able to get away with HIS illegitimate child (the DNA test was conducted NOT by any government agency, but by some newspaper; yes, that’s just as ridiculous as it sounds, but still true).

As I said before, where Obama was saying he would debate, he has cut the number down to three, yet another lie exposed. Don’t know which number it is, as he has told so many lies.

And there are plenty of fools who don’t notice that Obama “fine tunes” his campaign “promises” from time to time, so his promises from the nomination battle are now modified. He just sticks a few words on the end of them which change what he has said altogether.

Still looking for Hillary’s chance at getting the nod because Obama looks more unelectable every day.

Have a good’n.

;>)

Edwards was wrong in having a mistress.  Obama was not wrong in visiting Davis.  Without wrongdoing there is no scandal.  Such guilt-by-association is passé, unless you can prove a “huge” negative influence from such associations.

Please, no more speculation masquerading as fact.  You have it wrong about Frank Marshall Davis.  Edgar Tidwell, whom AIM’s Cliff Kincaid cites as “an expert on the life and writings of Davis,” demolishes your misrepresentation of Davis’s radical influence in one simple paragraph:

“Although my research indicates that Davis joined the CPUSA as a “closet member” during Word War II, there is no evidence that he was a Stalinist, or even a Party member before WWII.  Further, to those attempting to make the specious stand for the concrete, there is no evidence that he instructed Barack Obama in communist ideology.  Frank Marshall Davis did NOT believe in overthrowing the USA.  He was committed to what the nation professed to be. For him, communism was primarily an intellectual vehicle to achieve a political end-a possible tool for gaining the constitutional freedoms of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for ALL Americans.”

Tidwell was YOUR source!  It would be intellectual dishonesty to recognize him as “an expert on the life and writings of Davis” when you LIKE his conclusions, but discredit his expertise when you dislike his conclusions.  Please!!

Let’s refrain from stacking the evidence like former D.A. Nifong (Duke Lacrosse case), and practice REAL fairness, balance and accuracy in news reporting.  Otherwise, the REAL scandal (i.e., wrongdoing) is AIM’s deliberate misrepresentation of AIM’s own source material, as epitomized by AIM’s versions of the 1949 Honolulu NAACP situation, and as further outlined in my blog at http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/Kaleokualoha

Real evidence of AIM’s misrepresentation is accumulating much faster than imaginary evidence of Davis’s negative influence on Obama.  The only “influence” proffered thus far is Davis “convincing” Obama to attend college.  Despite his misgivings, Obama would probably have attended college anyway. (NOTE: The preceding is only speculation based on available evidence.  Apparently unbeknownst to AIM writers, it is important for journalists to distinguish between speculation and fact.)

Perhaps vilifying a dead poet through deliberate misrepresentation, like pulling the wings off flies, is marvelous fun for Kincaid’s crusaders.  Frank Marshall Davis, however, was more likely to commit random acts of kindness than anything nefarious.  It is time to move on to more deserving targets and leave my father alone.

brizzle,

>>If you really want a new perspective, try reading news from outside our country.

Europeans should simply thank us for saving their collective arse twice in the last century, then STFU.

If you think Europeans are so wonderful, transportation is available, so you could live over there. Yes, I’m sure this sounds as ridiculous to you as it does to me. We get the illegal immigrants, while they get most of the Muslims. (Looks like we got first choice!)

Personally, I think marital cheaters, male or female, are the lowest-of-the-low.  For me, it’s difficult to find an example of greater disloyalty.

And, while Edwards, Clinton, Hart, Kennedy and, I’m sure, many other individuals, of all political stripes, are members of this “cheater’s club” – - no one in the media that I’m aware of has documented McCain’s infidelity to his, I believe, partially-paralyzed, first wife – - OR – - exactly what McCain was doing in the years from his release as a POW to his election to Congress.

(???)

Ha! I love how people alway say “listen to someone outside of our country to see how our country really is”. Do you know how foolish that makes you sound? They have no CLUE how this country is because they don’t live here and do not have all the common shared experiences that we do. And if they currently live here, or have lived here for a time, they STILL don’t know what’s really going on because they don’t have the shared history of common experiences that we do.

And, ok, so the Republicans are the party of the rich and the Democrats are the party for the poor, according to some of you, correct? Well, helllllllllllllllllooooo—- I’d rather be associated with the rich, because guess what? I want to be rich someday. Yes, that is my goal! I said it! What a shock—- I don’t want to be poor!! I’d rather associate with people who know how to get things done and by successful, than people who keep banging their head against the wall, crying “woe is me,” while demanding their right to food stamps and welfare while they SIT ON THEIR ASSES…  Sorry, I’m gonna learn from these successful people and become one of them…!

Pretty funny. Two people trying to say it’s a mistake to listen to what the rest of the world has to say about us.

“Nobody here but us empirialists!”

sheesh!

Dave – You must really like the liberal/Democrats Koolaid.  You provide no proof as the when or where Fox did this.  Where are the links?  Oh yeah, liberals don’t allow facts to get in their ways of their lies.  You just keep name calling and shouting out something until people believe it.  As if that happens.  Let’s talk facts about Obama.  1.) He’s lived off the taxpayers, just like Billary, since college days.  2.) His only accomplishments in state and US Senate are – numerous present votes and $845B to go to the poor overseas.  3.) Even though Exxon Mobile paid a 75%+ tax on $34B to give them a profit of $11B and Obama calls it a windfall tax.  What other businesses would operate on 25% profit?  4.)  He wants to reinstate the death tax.  I watched on families legacy go from $35M to $2M over 20 years because of the death tax.  They had to sell the family business that was started during the depression because people like Obama want to take from the rich and give to the worthless.  5.)  Obama has no experience with the military.  Bill Clinton and the Blackhawk down episode is what happens when you put someone in charge of the military that has no experience, much less hatred for them.  6.)  Obama wants to negotiate with terrorists.  Their religion allows them to lie to their enemies, as has been proven time and again.  7.)  Obama wants to reduce military budgets, thus reducing size of the armed forces and the intelligence communities.  Look what happened because of Carter and Clinton doing the same thing.  That’s why we’ve had to call up Guard and Reserve units.  9/11 happened on Billary’s watch.  I can go on and on, but you don’t address facts, much less listen to them.  As the saying goes, “If ignorance is bliss, you are the happiest person in the world.”

9 of the top 10 richest people in America give to the Democrat party according to one study I saw last week, so that blows the theory out of the water that Dems are for the poor.  They just want to keep those who are poor on the government dole.  Then lie to them and convince them they are doing it for their own good.

Ozark-

Why, you plumb hurt my feelins accusin me of drinkin koolaid and bein a liar ‘n all…
?f=s_search

that’ll learn ya!
http://mediamatters.org/items/200610130010

By the way, you appear quite confused as to how the business world operates, yet you feel free to expound as if you have a CLUE! Your take on the political/historical is goddamn HILARIOUS! thanks for the comic relief.

This insane guy thinks like in 2004 when Fox News is more of a republican leaning network.

This is 2008 and the FoxNews has already been bought by Obama.

Surely the inaccurate FoxNews made a technical error in reporting.

So if there is a technical problem in the MSM, just ask your Obama to punish his MSM subordinates of such error.

By the way, mediamatters is a poor copycut of HuffPo…. but the reason why mediamatters is reacting too harsh about the error is simple: for mediamatters, MSM really matters…. only subtle and deceptive lies and mistakes are acceptables.  Obvious mistake for mediamatters by the MSM is unforgivable.

you don’t even get a “nice try” for that garbled and nonsensical post.

NEXT!

Another thing I have learned about Democrats is that when they think they have been found out on a major scandal and the s**t is literally about to hit the fan, they “give up” another juicy scandal to get Americans and MSM to focus on that scandal and hopefully buy them more time on the scandal they REALLY do not wnat to have found out!

It would not surprise me at all that Osamabama is behind the outing of Edwards – the National Enquirer may have broke the story last fall, but that they knew to jump Edwards at the motel at the time they did – perhaps the Democrats know that the communist/leftist/terrorist leanings of Obama are finally about to break even though the MSM has valiantly tried to keep it undercover?  And as long as they can keep the Edwards “love child” scandal running in the media – the more time they buy to keep the other under wraps in the hopes it dies and fizzles out?

Besides, the ol’ love lips caper is REALLY not that big of a thing – especially among Democrats! But if they can keep it running – they can buy time.  To those in America with morals it may be a big deal, to those that hate the graft and slime among our politicians it may be a big deal, and to those on the right it may be a bigger deal to them, but to those on the left, sex scandals are REALLY – NO BIG DEAL ANYMORE!  In fact, I suspect, they almost expect such sluts to populate their party and if there was not a sex scandal, they might wonder whether the candidate was really a democrat or liberal in the first place?  Remember folks, this is the Party that has as its Madam Speaker someone out of San Francisco – and if there is a Sodom and Gor????? in America – it is SF!!!

I’m not a prude, and a sex scandal with the family values candidate Edwards is certainly entertaining, but it is ssooooo old hat with the liberals in 2008 that there HAS to be something else that they are using this love lips caper to REALLY cover up?  And I suspect that Cliff Kincaid’s efforts to expose the extreme leftist communist leanings of Obama has perhaps gained more traction than even he thinks?

Jack H H

If you’re joking, I’ll say it’s pretty funny. If you’re serious, it’s pretty sad…

Those who can not totally commit themselves to their spouses cannot totally commit themselves to our LORD. Proper Name of GOD is Yahweh. World leaders say all people worship same god. Since this is not true we had better use HIS proper Name “YAHWEH.”

Dave, you answered my querry as follows.

“Foley and Crane, repeatedly (and by CNN as well) and Whitehouse”

But I need more details, what broadcasts, which Foley, which Crane, and what do you mean by Whitehouse, specifically, are you saying the Whitehouse identified Foley and Crane as Democrats? Of course, I’ll admit I seldom, if ever, watch CNN, so I might well have missed what was probably another poorly research so-called news broadcast.

Ozark_Sunshine,

As keen as you appear to be about our two major parties, I’m suprised you don’t know the difference between the Democrat and the Republican parties.

Democrats are a bunch of ruffians controlled by a few million heirs. Republicans are a bunch of million heirs controlled by a few ruffians.

As to the Democrat’s rubric, it hasn’t change since the election of FDR. One of his closeist associates, Harry Hopkins said more than 60 years ago, “We will tax and tax, and spend and spend, and elect and elect.” Obama says he’s for “Change we can believe in.” A change from the Democrat rubric which has worked for them over the past 60 years? Do Obama’s “promises” sound like a change from traditional Democrant rant?

Paschal dom.

Why do I find it not surprising that a partisan demagogue would resort to canards, innuendoes, and prevarications? You claim that all Republicans are stupid, racist, liars, and crazy.    And no doubt you’d like to close our mouths.

Please continue posting your diatribes on as many outlets as you can. When truly reasonable people see them they will reject appeasement minded, collectivist, Balkanizers like you and your fellow liberal Democratic partisans who can’t post cogent or grammatically correct posts. Oh, I forgot; logic and facts are unimportant to you welfare nanny state denizens, it’s emoting that counts.

Wow. It feels soooo good to be back.  I absolutely love how these threads morph into something way … way off the topic they are headed under.  This site works a lot like my mind, fast and crazy … and I like it!

Sorry…ahem…

I see a Mr. Mark Davis has chosen to grace us with his presence, and also to make a interesting claim.  So, Mr. Davis … if you are to be believed, then your father would be one Frank Marshal Davis, AKA “Frank” as identified in Sen. Obama’s book “Dreams of My Father”. 

I find your comment about your “father” (in quotes because the fact is contested elsewhere)

As quoted by you:
***Begin Quote***
Frank Marshall Davis did NOT believe in overthrowing the USA.  He was committed to what the nation professed to be. For him, communism was primarily an intellectual vehicle to achieve a political end-a possible tool for gaining the constitutional freedoms of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for ALL Americans.”
***End Quote***

Wow. Communism as a vehicle to the American dream.  Amazing, Simply amazing. Since you are presenting this quote as a supporting argument I am forced to logically assume that you also take this stance, feel free to correct me. 

Here is my problem with your argument (as presented by your quoting of Mr. Tidwell).  Communism is by definition against the American dream. Communism takes the decisions of liberty, happiness, and yes even life out of the hands of the people whom the constitution guarantees these very rights.  To ascribe to communism is to be anti-American.  The American dream is to work hard and be successful. The communist dream is to survive.  In a communist society the weak leach off the strong, and over time the strong become less strong and so the weak become weaker.  Soon generations are born that have no idea that strength lies dormant in them.  They are cowed and deliberately mislead by those who are in power in order to keep the current order in place. 

I will not delve too deeply into this here, history is proof enough.  Communism does not work, period.

To be direct, and to spare you a beautifully written piece that you will not be able to appreciate due to the copious amounts of cognitive dissonance you are no doubt experiencing, I will say this:  If this were a non-issue then it should be no trouble for a man like Sen. Obama to publicly denounce these “vicious lies” and clear his good name.  That is if his name deserves to be cleared.

You say your father was this mysterious Frank, if so I beg you to rise above his legacy and condemn his communist ties, begin to wash the communist filth from your family name.

I am not claiming capitalism is a perfect system, it has its problems.  However, capitalism provides a system of checks and balances that a concerned public may use to correct gross injustice when it happens.  Communism does not, in communism you choices are either to attempt to survive the injustice or to attempt to over throw the unjust government.  Both are dangerous choices, both have cost millions of human lives.

Thus ends my remarks to Mr. “Davis”.  If your response is intelligible, please post it here.  I will be waiting…

And to our learned friend Mr. Paschal dom:

I must thank you for your ever so predictable playing of the race card.  If I disagree with a black man it must be because I am a racist.  WOW!  Such insight! And here I was thinking I disagreed with someone because of something they said they believe.  I cannot believe the revelation I have received from you, thank you so very much.  I can now go through my life knowing that because I happen to be white I am always wrong and because someone else happens to have a different skin shade he or she MUST always be correct, no matter how ludicrous and unfounded their opinions are. Wow, now I can carry this wonderful burden of race guilt around with me every where.  I can allow it to distort my world view so thoroughly that my comments will cease to have any real meaning to anyone who does not share my world view. Thanks!

To be serious though, I find it infuriating in the extreme that you so quickly denounce people as racist, when it is perfectly clear through your writing that what you are doing is nothing more than classic projection.  I have written on the site before about the way you have acted on this thread. For a through education seek out my other posts. 

I hope you feel shame for the way you have acted here.  Do you not realize you are insulting people for exercising their right to free speech by using that very right?  How perverse.

To the rest of us:
Lets have a second revolution … but this time lets do it with a ballot.  Because, to quote one of my favorite literary figures, “Adventures are messy things, make you late for dinner they do.”

Elcrapo,

YOU WROTE:  Wow. Communism as a vehicle to the American dream. Amazing, Simply amazing. Since you are presenting this quote as a supporting argument I am forced to logically assume that you also take this stance, feel free to correct me.”

“Here is my problem with your argument (as presented by your quoting of Mr. Tidwell). Communism is by definition against the American dream. Communism
takes the decisions of liberty, happiness, and yes even life out of the hands of the people whom the constitution guarantees these very rights. To ascribe to communism is to be anti-American. The American dream is to work hard and be successful. The communist dream is to survive. In a communist society the weak leach off the strong, and over time the strong become less strong and so the weak become weaker. Soon generations are born that have no idea that strength lies dormant in them. They are cowed and deliberately mislead by those who are in power in order to keep the current order in place. “

RESPONSE:  Nice shell game move there buddy, for a number of reasons:
- I am presenting this as Tidwell’s expert opinion on Davis’s motivation.  There is no suggestion that I share this motivation.  Hence, there is no logic in your assumption that I also take this stance.  If I was a leading African-American writer of the same period, I may also have taken the same action along with Richard Wright, Langston Hughes, and many others.
- As indicated earlier, it is intellectually dishonest to pick and choose within expert testimony.  Either you accept Tidwell’s characterization of Davis, or you don’t.
- As an “intellectual vehicle,” the CPUSA enabled him and other leading African-American writers to publish their material.
- As a “possible tool,” the CPUSA placed the fight against racism near the center of all its work during this period.
- There is no suggestion in Tidwell’s statement that Davis internalized any Marxist values.  He was not a Stalinist, despite AIM misrepresentation.  In fact, Tidwell specifically rejects AIM’s contention that Davis instructed Obama in Communist ideology.
-It appears to me that the “communism” you describe is more the reality of socialist police states such as the Soviet Union, North Korea and Mao’s China rather than the communist ideal outlined by Karl Marx.  Many people were lured by the utopian ideal but disgusted by the Socialist realities.  Many people were lured by the utopian ideal, and were unaware of the Socialist realities.  Many other people rejected communist ideology but joined for the benefits, such as securing a vehicle for publication of their writings or support in the fight against Jim Crow racism.  Membership has its privileges.  Consider yourself corrected.

YOU WROTE:  I will not delve too deeply into this here, history is proof enough.  Communism does not work, period.

RESPONSE:  Communism has never existed on a large scale.  I agree that it could not work on a large scale without a basic shift in human psychology.  I believe, however, that some small communes are successful until they become too large for direct moral authority.  Once legal authority is required, the commune is doomed.

YOU WROTE:  You say your father was this mysterious Frank, if so I beg you to rise above his legacy and condemn his communist ties, begin to wash the communist filth from your family name.

RESPONSE:  Sorry I cannot condemn his communist ties because (according to Kincaid’s source “The New Red Negro”) ONLY the Communist left had any significant institutional impact on African-American writing during the 1930s and 1940s.  This support was crucial as the institutions that had maintained the New Negro Renaissance faded.  And for better or for worse, the leading CPUSA functionaries involved in “Negro work” took a direct interest in African-American cultural production in a manner that was unusual, if not unique. Vilifying a writer for continuing to publish in CPUSA-supported publications, when they provided his only available institutional support, is completely unfair.  Langston Hughes, Richard Wright, and Frank Marshall Davis all took advantage of this institutional support.

Further, as The New Red Negro makes clear, there was no monolithic Stalinist doctrine within the CPUSA:  “This is not to say that the impact of the Communist Left on African-American writers in the 1930’s and 1940’s flowed from absolute unity of ideology and practical application of that ideology.  As mentioned before, the CPUSA itself, despite the claims of both the party leadership and its most ardent detractors, contained various, often conflicting tendencies.  This conflicts appeared within top leadership, where Earl Browder and William Z. Foster and their supporters were frequently at odds.  They also surfaced in the regional leadership of important districts that were occasionally, and in the case of southern California frequently, in opposition to the national leadership.  Finally, at the rank-and-file level, when leadership debates broke out into the open (as they did in 1929, 1956-1946, and 1956), the were replayed in almost every CPUSA unit, often serving as the vehicle for the expression of a wide range of “unorthodox” political beliefs (ranging from social democratic to anarcho-syndicalist.”

A huge proportion of African-American poets (and writers and intellectuals generally) remained engaged with the Communist Left and cultural institutions from at least the early 1930’s until at least the early 1950’s.  With the partial exception of the period from the German invasion of the Soviet Union to the end of the Second World War, the CPUSA placed the issue of race and the fight against Jim Crow near the center of all its work.

The bottom line is that communist ties were the NORM for African American poets and civil right activists during that period.  Such ties did not mean that they internalized Marxist values, much less Stalinist values, even if they were aware of the distinction.  To them, there was no “filth,” only safe harbor from the ravages of Jim Crow America.

YOU WROTE:  I am not claiming capitalism is a perfect system, it has its problems.  However, capitalism provides a system of checks and balances that a
concerned public may use to correct gross injustice when it happens.  Communism does not, in communism you choices are either to attempt to survive the injustice or to attempt to over throw the unjust government.  Both are dangerous choices, both have cost millions of human lives.

RESPONSE:  There has never been a truly communist society.  All of the various socialist attempts were doomed to failure because Marxist ideology ignored the essential role material incentive plays in human motivation.  Without adequate rewards through Adam Smith’s “invisible hand,” dictatorships were inevitable in the short term but doomed in the long term. 

But once again, we have the advantage of hindsight unavailable in the 1930’s and 1940’s.  The true nature of the Soviet Union, and by extension socialist economies in general, was not common knowledge.  Many CPUSA members believed the hype, especially because it provided their only institutional support for their writing AND because its fight against Jim Crow was near the center of all its work.  So once again: NO, I cannot condemn his communist ties.  They were the virtually inevitable result of his status as an African-American poet fighting against a racist society. 

I see no “communist filth” derived from association with the CPUSA under those conditions.  On the other hand, I can easily condemn contemporary communists such as Alan Maki.

If we judge our ancestors by contemporary standards, very few would escape unscathed.  Many were slave owners.  Most were abusive, racist, sexist, and virtually every other “-ist” in the contemporary lexicon, because such behavior was the norm for much of human history.

Mark Kaleokualoha Davis, after all the sound and fury, please answer one simple, direct question, are you a communist?

Kenneth

“Yahweh” is the Old Testament name for the Being that Christians call God.

Were I Jewish, I might refer to God as “Yahweh” or G-D, but I’m a Christian, so I’ll stick with God or the Lord.

You are free to have your own religious beliefs, but don’t presume to tell Christians how to form or exercise our own. I note that a number of Jews are beginning to accept Christ as their Saviour.

Revelation notes that there will be such Jews accepting Christ…in the End Times.

You can look it up and see!

Thank you.

Hey, gather ‘round, gang, Roberto Benitez is gonna get us all to sign a loyalty oath!

“Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party?”

We’ve come a long way, baby!

Dave – who is Media Matters but another liberal organization that will say anything to protect Democrats.  As far as the business world, I am a highly successful prfessional who not only has run his own businesses but worked in management of Fortune 50 Corporations.  I have several patents and am quite accomplished in business and in volunteerism.  I pity your simple mind that cannot grasp how the REAL world works and how you just keep ranting while not having a real clue.  Again you take to calling names and trying to soil someones reputation without one iota of fact because you can’t debate the truth.  It is a shame you act in such a childish manner.  They do have programs now to diagnose your problems since the psychiatic world has deemed liberalism a mental illness.  You really should go see a counselor.

tons-of-fun – I was just responding on the one comment about the rich and the poor.  I know what both stand for.  I left the Democratic party after they elected Jimmy Carter.  I vote for the person now, not the party because both have their faults.  But as a disabled vet, I will not stand by and allow ignorant people to not tell the truth nor answer questions about who Obama is and what he stands for.  He is the worst thing, besides Pelosi, Clinton and Reid, that could happen to this country.

By the way, Dave, why don’t you respond directly to the points I made in my first post or is it too much for your brain.  You claim to be a scholar and know all, so don’t post anymore until you address the issues, if you can.  Quit the name calling and smugness (next) and have some public discourse on the points, unless you are unable to do so.

The worst scandal is that the mainstream media acts as a propaganda machine for Obama and the second worst scandal is that so many people believe their lies.  People who do not think are falling for his image and completely miss his agendas.

Ozark-

I’ll give your “resume” the credence it deserves. (Anyone who claims that Exxon paid 75% in taxes really understands the business world!)

As to not responding to your first barely readable post, I answered your question, Clem! And just because I point out how foolish you are does not mean I have a mental illness. You are quite confused.

Incidentally, all Media Matters does is GIVE THE GODDAMNED EXACT QUOTES OF PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA! You have to be a cretin not to see that this isn’t “spin”, it’s TELLING EVERYBODY WHAT SOMEONE SAID, WORD FOR WORD. Period.

“… We get the illegal immigrants, while they get most of the Muslims. (Looks like we got first choice!) …” -voxoreason

That’s a good one! LOL!

I’d much rather have millions of hard-working sunzabitches in this country than a single fanatical zealot willing to blow himself up simply to kill as many others as possible.

Dave, how do you explain the fact that MediaMatters is simply another one of George Soros’ shell companies designed to push his socialist, one-world agenda?

Anybody can claim “no spin” and simply giving direct quotes, yet still spinning by being selective about what they choose to quote. You provide an excellent example of that tactic quite often here.

Idiot writes: Anyone who claims that Exxon paid 75% in taxes really understands the business world!

Actually, the oil industry has an avg profit margin of 9%, ie, they make 9¢ on the dollar in profit. The S&P;500 (the 500 co’s that make up the S&P;) have an average profit margin of 13%. Seems like like DC has made a 9% pm “excessive,” but still want to be able to lower it.

Okay, what happens to those other industries whose profit margins are above 9%? Will our keepers, er…“leaders” in DC want to cut THEIR profit margins as well?

At least the oil industry produces something essential, as opposed to, say, the Big Pharma co’s that OWN the FDA? (Big Pharma gets to fund their own testing – reporting only the ones with good results, while burying bad test scores for the same “medicine” – and even coming up with customized placebos, which most people think are simply sugar pills. Maybe at one time they were, but not now. Vioxx is the “poster” child for Big Pharma malfeasance. Other horror stories abound.)

Several industries have a higher profit margin than the oil industry.

This is fact and can be confirmed. Who knows? You might learn something. Anything is possible!

And there’s a first time for everything!

Sorry if I come across as speaking down to you… but that’s exactly what I’m doing. The literate and sane will recognize this, but you’ll probably miss it.

;>)

Hmmmm, profit margins and tax rates. Yeah, that’s the same thing.

You are a mental midget. You couldn’t speak down to anyone…

John Galt-

How do I explain a totally fabricated spurious “fact”? I’m fairly sure I don’t have to.
(And really, “socialist, one-world agenda”? What are you, in a cliche contest or something? Sheesh!)

When you give full quotes and transcripts for background, it’s hard to spin.

Roberto asked:  “Mark Kaleokualoha Davis, after all the sound and fury, please answer one simple, direct question, are you a communist?”

Response:  No, silly rabbit. Are you?

Dave you show your ignorance again.  Why don’t you think and research instead of believing liberal lies.  Exxon did pay 75% tax on their profit, so prove me wrong don’t just say words thinking they are true.  You, like Obama, have no credibility.  Media Matters is a leftist organization whos misquotes all day long and cherry picks what they put out there.  Again, I ask you to discuss, reasonably without your snide remarks or name calling tendencies, these facts.  Let’s talk facts about Obama.  1.) He’s lived off the taxpayers, just like Billary, since college days.  2.) His only accomplishments in state and US Senate are – numerous present votes and $845B to go to the poor overseas.  3.) Even though Exxon Mobile paid a 75%+ tax on $34B to give them a profit of $11B and Obama calls it a windfall tax.  What other businesses would operate on 25% profit?  4.) He wants to reinstate the death tax.  I watched on families legacy go from $35M to $2M over 20 years because of the death tax.  They had to sell the family business that was started during the depression because people like Obama want to take from the rich and give to the worthless.  5.) Obama has no experience with the military.  Bill Clinton and the Blackhawk down episode is what happens when you put someone in charge of the military that has no experience, much less hatred for them.  6.) Obama wants to negotiate with terrorists.  Their religion allows them to lie to their enemies, as has been proven time and again.  7.) Obama wants to reduce military budgets, thus reducing size of the armed forces and the intelligence communities.  Look what happened because of Carter and Clinton doing the same thing.  That’s why we’ve had to call up Guard and Reserve units.  9/11 happened on Billary’s watch.  I can go on and on, but you don’t address facts, much less listen to them.  If you can’t, then shut off youor computer because you are a waste of time and have no intelligence other than for your lying liberal ways.  You are just another liberal coward and bully that hides behind a computer, but if confronted in real life would wet their pants.

Let’s look at CNN’s take of Exxon Mobil’s taxes. [No one can fallaciously call CNN “far right” as they do FoxNews, which is nothing of the sort. FoxNews isn’t far right: they are weenies with the exceptions of Brit Hume and Charles Krauthammer.] I had a link, but my posting had to be “moderated” as it might be spam, but I was simply offering a clearly non-republican source. You can google this up if you have doubts.

Profits for Exxon Mobile in 2nd Quarter: Exxon Mobil once again reported the largest quarterly profit in U.S. history Thursday, posting net income [this is the profit] of $11.68 billion on revenue [after expenses deducted] of $138 billion in the second quarter.

Taxes: In addition to making hefty profits, Exxon also had a hefty tax bill. Worldwide, the company paid $10.5 billion in income taxes in the second quarter, $9.5 billion in sales taxes, and over $12 billion in what it called “other taxes.” [This adds up to $32 billion.]

So Exxon Mobile paid $32 billion in taxes on $11.68 billion of net income [profit: net income is revenue “net” of expenses which lower their taxable income; the $138 billion is not net, but total revenue without taking expenses into account].

I can’t talk down to you? Everyone else does! There are certain forms of plant life that could talk down to you.

“… Several industries have a higher profit margin than the oil industry. …” -voxoreason

Exactly!

Google’s profit margins are 25%.

Electronics industry average profit margins are 14%.

Software industry average profit margins are 19%.

Seems like there’s a LOT of other targets for “windfall profits” extortion.

“… 9/11 happened on Billary’s watch. …” – Ozark

Well… not exactly. Before dave goes berserk on you, Ozzie I’ll volunteer to clarify what I think you meant, OK?

The planning, movements of the terrorists into the US, their flight training, etc. no doubt took place before Bush took office in January ‘01, but the actual atrocity took place 9 months after that.

vox-

Jesus, give up while you’re behind. Now you’re telling me that Exxon paid three times their net income in taxes. That would be very very bad.

JG I didn’t take the “9/11 happened on Billary’s watch” as I thought he was trolling…

Dave, it’s a well-known fact that Media Matters receives large amounts of funding through various George Soros “fronts.”

As to the socialism and one-world thing, feel free to read what he says about that himself on the Open Society Institute site. http://www.soros.org

I found vox’s CNN quote somewhat confusing as well. I suppose a green-eyeshade type could explain it, but only in a way a fellow bean-counter could love or understand.

My understanding is that profit margin is defined as that portion of a product’s *price* that is over and above the producer’s *cost* to produce it.

It is largely profit that is targeted by the kleptocracy in Congress, although excise taxes are also levied. Rest assured that a large portion of any product’s cost to produce includes generous hunks of taxes that the component suppliers have passed on in the product’s producer’s costs.

Seems my understanding is incorrect—wikipedia shows profit margin as net profit after taxes divided by net sales.

If it’s a “well-known fact” there ought to be some proof, don’tcha think? Those stupid enough to take Tom Delay’s word for it had egg on their faces and retracted what they said.

According to their website the open society “aims to shape public policy to promote democratic governance, human rights, and economic, legal, and social reform.”

Wow. that sounds terrible.

“On a local level, OSI implements a range of initiatives to support the rule of law, education, public health, and independent media.”

That’s just wrong! Somebody STOP these guys!

John Galt,

You are correct, but I didn’t have the taxes paid figures at hand, although the taxes were a good bit higher than the profit last I read. But the principle is the same: the co’s may have high-paid officers, but shareholders own a lot of these companies… and 9% is NOT a large profit margin.

And taxes on large corporations hurt the little guys who have pensions which put their pension fund money into large corporations, just as Social Security basically steals money from blacks who tend to die before retirement age, while their surviving family members get ZERO.

This is liberals “caring” for the little guys and minorities. Have you ever noticed that Asians in America are NEVER referred to as minorities? They’re too busy making the Dean’s lists at universities or being the valedictorians or salutatorians at high school/university graduations. Asians are too bright to fall for the “minority” trap.

idiot: Now you’re telling me that Exxon paid three times their net income in taxes.

Nope. CNN is telling you that, as I copy/pasted parts of my post from their web site using CNN’s numbers. I gather that reading comprehension isn’t your strongest quality.

They must be far right hatemongers like every other conservative, right?

I’ll turn the floor over to the plant life. At least they won’t take the Lord’s name in vain.

You are totally confused. There is no way that CNN claimed that the largest company in the world spends 3 times in taxes what they profited. If you can’t see that, then you really are a cretin. My guess is that it’s your cutting and pasting that is at fault; my reading comprehension is just fine thanks…

OK, I see the error of my ways. I’ll eat some crow, apologize and move on.

The thing that threw me off was the notion that they “paid taxes” on their profits. (“So Exxon Mobile [sic]paid $32 billion in taxes on $11.68 billion of net income…” vox 47)

Taxes are paid on taxable GROSS income, which for Exxon is considerable. So their tax rate on gross is somewhere in the 40 percent region. What’s left is the profit, which as vox points out, is far less than what’s paid in taxes. I screwed up big time, and apologize for calling him a cretin.

My gargantuan stupidity notwithstanding (even the fern in the corner agrees!), isn’t this an unfair comparison? I’d have to think the ratio of taxes paid to net profit is the same with Exxon as with most industry.

Is this a satire site like the Onion?

>>Taxes are paid on taxable GROSS income

On an individual level, paycheck withholdings are deducted from gross income, leaving net income.

Depending on several factors (how many dependents claimed, for example), one may pay have too much withheld or have too little withheld.

When a person gets a tax refund, he may think that he didn’t pay any taxes, but the gov’t paid him! Not the case: the gov’t has overtaxed him and is returning the difference.

This amounts to making a tax-free loan to the gov’t, which sends a refund to pay back the overpayment…but keeps the return on the tax-free loan.

Deductions lower your taxable income. Some commercials on TV note whether an item is tax deductible, lowering your taxable income.

Check a corporation’s balance sheet. There is a line for “Tax Expenses.” A not yet profitable new business can carry these taxes over to the next year and reduce their taxes for that year. Many stocks can have a rather high price while losing money. Amazon.com lost money for years…but their stock price went up on expectations of future success, which they had in spades. Check their stock price now. Ford Motors is currently (before open of market today) at $5.19. Amazon.com is at $87.25.

On an individual level, when you fill out your taxes, you are instructed to subtract certain items from your gross income, resulting in your taxable income. Your W-2 form provides this info.

This is why I stress the importance of lowering taxable income. (A family setting up a C or S corporation will have between 30 and 300 deductions that they can take…plus hold an annual “shareholders meeting” anywhere they please, eg, Denver, CO, and this isn’t taxable.) Much like businessmen have had limits placed on the number of drinks they can write off as business expenses. Before that, they could have as many drinks as they pleased and written them off as an expense of doing business. If “any” business is discussed at a meal, the cost of the meal is deductible as a business expense.

Handy reference form: Investopedia.com (free) is a dictionary of financial terms which might affect taxpayers or investors, plus offers tutorials to explain various concepts and how to use them.

No more insults from me. I can apologize, too.

Mark Kaleokualoha Davis, I’ll give you a direct answer, no I’m not a communist or socialist.

I’m a conservative and have been registered for voting purposes most of my life as a Republican (no boos please). I would have no problem voting for another party’s candidate it I agreed with him and the platform. As a matter of fact I doubt I’ll vote for McCain. The Republicans and neoconservatives have put this once democratic Republic under the rule of constitutional law in grave danger thru their greed (earmarks, graft, and chicanery) and disdain for the Constitution respectively (witness the Bush Doctrine).

I once was a Libertarian but then they went off the deep end flirting with anarchy. Now anarchy doesn’t mean throwing Molotov Cocktails as popularized by the media, nor does being a communist either. The problem with communism as I see it is that it assumes the perfectibility of people if just their education and environment were properly controlled. In small groups it might even work such as the early Christian Church in places. But in practice it results in authoritarian regimes.

I asked you if you were a communist so as to better understand your defense of Wright and Frank Davis. I’m sorry if an honest question offends or frightens you.

By the way, I don’t believe in asking for loyal oaths as the prevaricator Dave said except in sensitive jobs such as being a representative, senator, president, cabinet member, etc. I think they take such an oath upon taking office. Also military officers take such an oath as I did upon being commissioned. I guess Dave finds all that offensive.

I might also mention, that the reticence to attribute political affiliation is akin to the efforts to say that neither character nor associations matter, only general stances on issues are important. That’s why I believe it’s important to know about Sen. Obama’s past associations, education and the fact that he’s one of the most liberal senators and can be said to be a socialist. The same is fair for McCain, although he does have a longer verifiable record than does Obama. Also, it’s just as fair to say McCain is a moderate fence sitter and Bush is a neoconservative. Ron Paul is a Libertarian; Hunter and Tancredo are conservatives.  Such labels while sometimes inadequate are fair to use.  In Europe you’ll find parties named Christian Socialists, Socialist Democrats, etc with no stigma attached.

I hope you understand what I’m trying to convey Mark. We need to foster the idea of the LOYAL opposition even if we think their policies might be detrimental to the country rather than calling them traitors and morons and also need to call out prevaricators like Dave. Otherwise such conduct will only lead to the Balkanization of the country.

Bob

Dave, why do you resort to prevarication and ad hominem attacks? Are you that afraid of honest and direct questions?

By the way, I do support loyalty oaths for sensitive jobs such as being a representative, senator, president, cabinet member, etc. I believe they take such an oath upon taking office. Also military officers take such an oath as I did upon being commissioned, and the oath doesn’t end with retirement from the military.

Both Sen. Obama and McCain have done so when they took the oath of office and I don’t doubt either’s sincerity. Doubting the wisdom of a program or of a political position is not a matter of questioning one’s loyalty, just a matter of wisdom or knowledge about a position.

For certain reasons that I learned in the intel business I believe that Bush and gang were sincere about what they perceived as a threat to the West’s lifeblood, oil, but I believe they were sincerely wrong in how to deal with the threat. As Admiral Yamamoto is alleged to have said, “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.” The neoconservatives chose the wrong time and place to make a stand and then have mismanaged their efforts. I believe such is impeachable.

I do realize however that partisan Democratic demagogues need to ascribe maleficent motives to Bush, Cheney, and conservatives, therefore need to imply that we conservatives advocate McCarthyism.

It seems you have that problem. Why is that Dave? Do you lack wisdom to understand that one’s political ideology along with associations and character is important in discussing an issue?

Maybe it’s because my surname is McCarthy that when I hear someone asked if he/she is a Communist I think of good old uncle Joe.

I don’t see how I can be accused of prevarication, but ad hominem is as ad hominem does. If express the fact that you have issue with an article on this site, as I have, you immediately get slammed. I respond in kind; I’m just better at it.

Your comment about the Bush admin’s “sincerity” is telling. If you said you thought they were sincere about the threat to the US, I could argue against it, because there is evidence that they knew otherwise. But you said you thought they were sincere about the threat to OIL! Wow! Whose oil is it, anyway? (a new motion picture!)

I do indeed ascribe maleficent motives, not necessarily to President Bush but surely to the Bush administration, and this is extremely easy to support. I certainly don’t feel this way about conservatives generally. However, these neocons are something else entirely, AND THEY ARE ADVISING MCCAIN ON FOREIGN POLICY! Food for thought.

Roberto wrote “I asked you if you were a communist so as to better understand your defense of Wright and Frank Davis. I’m sorry if an honest question offends or frightens you.”

I have not supported Wright, only Frank Davis (who is my father).

Dave, I think you and I think alike on the neoconservatives. While I believe based on history that Islam is a grave threat to the West, I believe the neoconservatives could be worse. In a democratic Republic the danger is usually from within. The Bush’s administration’s view of the Constitution is one of disdain; believing it’s an impedance to their Machiavellian view of governance. I suspect you agree, perhaps even more strongly. As I have said, I believe Bush should be impeached, not so much for mismanaging the war, that should have been the way Rumsfeld should have exited, but for his and Ashcroft’s gutting of the Constitution. They were willing, and I think you would say desirous and I won’t protest too strongly, to trade essential liberties for temporary security. I think Benjamin Franklin had a few words about that.

By the way, I will have a very hard time pulling the lever for McCain for the reason you ascribe. I might even vote for a third party. And to be fair I should mention I couldn’t vote for Sen. Obama or the Democrats. But that’s another story.

As for your denial of prevarication, I must assume you’re claiming you know I’m for requiring loyalty oaths for Americans. Is that not what you claimed? Please cite your source or recant. If not, please, give up the hubris, you’re not better at refuting objections than others on this forum.

I have always believed that this war was about two things. First is oil, second is aggressive Islam. Oil is the lifeblood of the West. Unfortunately Europe isn’t willing to protect that supply and their recent reticence to stand up to Russia over its invasion of Georgia is additional proof (BTW, this is the start of another Cold War and possibly Russia will absorb all of Georgia and go after the Ukraine and then the Baltic States). You ask whose oil is it, a good and fair question. It belongs to those nations where it resides and those who invested in and developed it. Sorry, I’m a capitalist.

Saddam, as has several past Mideast despots, clearly stated his goal was to conquer the Mideast, establish a Pan-Arab Nation, and use oil as a weapon against the West, and in the pursuit of that goal attacked Iran, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia. He developed and used WMDS in the process, but at the time of our invasion he wasn’t an imminent threat as required by the 1978 War Power Resolution for the president to act unilaterally without a Declaration of War (BTW, the last president to properly go to war according to the Constitution was FDR in WWII). Saddam made it known, as Hitler did in Mein Kampf which was ignored, that he planned to also attack Bahrain and the UAE and then go into the heart of Saudi Arabia. He also attacked Israel. These are simple facts.

“… Oil is the lifeblood of the West. …”

Oil is the lifeblood of the world. No other energy source is as flexible, and no other natural resource provides the raw material for so many other products: polymers, plastics, lubricants, … literally thousands of products that our lives and well being depend on.

Protecting its free production and distribution is a matter or global security.

“As for your denial of prevarication, I must assume you’re claiming you know I’m for requiring loyalty oaths for Americans. Is that not what you claimed?”

It was a JOKE. Get it?

“Please cite your source or recant.”

Please lighten up.

“If not, please, give up the hubris, you’re not better at refuting objections than others on this forum.”

That’s not what I said I’m better at.

John Galt, by saying oil is the lifeblood of the West I’m implying that a Pan-Arab Nation would sell to the East, Africa, and the Mideast, but would use it as a weapon against the US and Europe to wreak havoc on our economies. As a matter of fact you allude to an important concern about it’s free distribution and global security.

Many don’t know it but the reason went into SE Asia before WWII and attacked the US and Britain in the Philippines, Indonesia, and what was know as the Dutch East Indies was to secure resources such as oil, rubber and certain industrial metals. So you point is well taken.

I’m glad you mentioned some of oil’s other uses besides as a fuel. It’s even used in medicines. That’s why using less of it as a fuel is such a good idea.

dave, I seriously doubt your comment about my wanting to require loyalty oaths was meant as a joke. But I understand that you as can’t apologize for lying so you want to portray it as a joke. I guess what you’re good at is dodging issues.

Who gives a Rats Ass? The NeoCon movement has it’s foundations in Trotsky Communism. Most all of the important positions in this Nation are held by Eastern European Trotsky Communist Jews.
AIPAC, like a cheap ‘Ho is working both sides of the street and has America by the short hair.

Roberto-

I can’t be held responsible for your apparent total lack of a sense of humor. I assure you I am neither lying nor dodging…

Hey Fred, either give examples and links to your facts or don’t blog.  Your opinion isn’t worth squat because you are one of the mentally ill liberals, by the recent definition by leading psychologists.  You hate us because we have morals and you don’t.  We stand up for what is right, not perverted.  We protect you fatt butt when you are to lazy to do anything for this country.  It’s time you just say thank you to us for your freedoms and unplug your computer because you’re going to stroke out over people diagreeing with your lies.

Fred may be ranting, but his point about the “neo-conservative” movement being Trotskyist is close to correct.

The Project for a New American Century (PNAC) is the neo-con project and Irving Kristol (Billy’s dad) said the following about himself:

“Ever since I can remember, I’ve been a neo-something: a neo-Marxist, a neo-Trotskyist, a neo-liberal, a neo-conservative; in religion a neo-orthodox even while I was a neo-Trotskyist and a neo-Marxist.”

This article is an interesting view on what’s been happening to conservativism:

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2006-fall/decline-fall-american-conservatism.asp

Ozark-

that’s the second time you’ve posted the preposterous canard about liberalism being a mental illness. I’ve got a news flash for you: (M)Ann Coulter is not a “leading psychologist”!

The punch line is that you’re calling for Fred to back up his argument with examples and links, while you give zero support for your claim. (Can you say “hypocrite”, boys and girls?)

As to Fred’s post, his first comment was a half truth, the second was a lunatic rant, but the third, while certainly indelicately put, pretty much hit the nail on the head. A broken clock is correct twice a day, is what I’m sayin’.

JOHN – not true!  YOU need to go look at who really are the Trotsykists in the government today and it isn’t the “neocons.” 

I suggest you look at Goldber’s book, Liberal Fascism, and get some background on the issues.  Billy is a typical hollywood type without much education behind him and a lot of popularity on which he gets air time that we don’t.

Conservatism is alive and well but if Pilosi gets her way, and the “fairness doctrine” which failed once before gets in, it may well die – that is her hope. 

All it takes is for folks like you who are a conservative to speak out as you do on the blogs. 

And for FRED – go get the same book. You need some education behind you dear.  Name calling is one of the illogical thinking mistakes that most uneducated folks do – when they don’t have facts they name call!!

Cliff – you do a GREAT job of writing, researching and bringing topics to the forefront for all of us to read – thanks for your good reporting!!

Is Helen (“Billy is a typical hollywood type without much education behind him…”) confusing William Kristol (BA magna cum laude, Harvard, PhD, Harvard) with Billy Crystal?

And let’s not stop with the so-called “Fairness Doctrine”, let’s all work together to stamp out fairness in all its forms!

Helen, sorry for the confusion: William (“Billy”) Kristol (editor of Weekly Standard and Fox News talking head) is indeed Irving Kristol’s son and one of the founders of PNAC, the signature project of neo-cons.

I see their site has been suspended ( http://www.newamericancentury.org ) but there is a list of the organizers on the wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

Irving is often refered to as “The Godfather of Neo-Conservativism,” so I stand by my earlier statement given that Irving himself said he was “… a neo-Marxist, a neo-Trotskyist, …” etc.

I’m aware of the gist of Goldber’s book, but I didn’t have to read it to know that fascists, socialists, and communists are all on the upper left and center of the political compass.

Please read the Objective Standard article I linked to in my earlier post. I found it very interesting, particularly the distinction between neo-conservativism and compassionate conservatism.

Helen, sorry for the confusion: William (“Billy”) Kristol (editor of Weekly Standard and Fox News talking head) is indeed Irving Kristol’s son and one of the founders of PNAC, the signature project of neo-cons.

I see their site has been suspended ( http://www.newamericancentury.org ) but there is a list of the organizers on the wikipedia page:

(search for “Project_for_the_New_American_Century” since it won’t let me post that link)

Irving is often refered to as “The Godfather of Neo-Conservativism,” so I stand by my earlier statement given that Irving himself said he was “… a neo-Marxist, a neo-Trotskyist, …” etc.

I’m aware of the gist of Goldber’s book, but I didn’t have to read it to know that fascists, socialists, and communists are all on the upper left and center of the political compass.

Please read the Objective Standard article I linked to in my earlier post. I found it very interesting, particularly the distinction between neo-conservativism and compassionate conservatism.

WRT “Fairness Doctrine:”

I may have to respect others’ right to express themselves (Amendment 1 to the US Constitution), but I’m not obliged to provide them with a microphone.

Dave, if you search WND.com you will find the article about mental illness so it is you who are the hypocrite besides being too lazy to do any research.  You still haven’t had the courage to answer the questions, you just call names and lie, as usual.

Thanks for the correction on BILLY and the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE is nonsense.  Consider that here where I live the ONLY conservative somewhat factual show is FOX.  They have to compete against CNN, CBS, ABC, MSNBC and the most idiotic newspersons like Chris Matthews who instead of doing analysis of OB’s speeches, felt a thrill run up his leg!! 

IF Old Nancy wants fairness – we need more conservative stations – one for CNN, CBS, ABC, MSNBC.  That’s four I count.  I could stand that – more conservative TV shows – yes!!

AND consider that all those voting against drilling here and now probaly have stock in their portfolios that will drop if they drill. 

How about demanding NANCY release the bill for drilling to be voted on?

John Gait there is nothing fair about the fairness doctrine.  It was an LBJ tool to shut down the conservatives voices back in the 1950s when there were only a few radio stations and 3 tv networks.  Now it is being used by Democrats to shut down dissent because people actually listen and expose liberals for what they are.  If people wanted to hear the liberal stuff, they can tune into the mainstream media or bring back that giant failure, Air America, but instead they want to take over conservative talk radio.  As far as your rights, yes you do have to provide a microphone, if that’s what the public want, but you can shut off the tv or radio if you don’t want to hear it.  It’s the same thing I do for the mainstream media and rap.

Brizzle:  go back to 1998 and see CLINTON, ALBRIGHT AND SANDY BERGER talking aoubt WMD’s!! 
Here is the link dear – go cry after reading it. 
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

AND…if Clinton had gone after Bin Laden the THREE times we had him in our sights, there might not have been a 9/11. 

Remember Bush was in office for only a short 6 months and CLinton was in for 8 years before BUSH took over so don’t lay the blame for 9/11 at his feet. 

Further – I teach classes in Propaganda and most of the foreign press have axes to grind – if you want to see propaganda read Al Jazeera carefully and look at the tone and misinformation in their stories.  Look at how Michael Moore does his movies also.  THAT is propaganda pure and simple.

LBJ was one of the worst presidents for the US – he created the biggest welfare country in history and due to him, lazy worthless people who want the government to take care of them were created.

Look at the early immigrants here – they didn’t depend on the government but succeeded on their own.  It wasn’t until LBJ took over that the US started being a weak willed yellow bellied cowardly country.  IT took REAGAN to get us out of the mire we were in. 

This country has such slimy lack of character types such as Edwards who in my book is about the lowest of the low.  He thinks with his man part rather than his head just like Clinton!!

Thanks to conservative media, radio and talk show hosts, the Democratic candidate for President Obama and Edwards are being shown for the LIARs they are.  Keep on chugging conservatives media – without you, the US would be another Europe!!

Gas and Oil Companies:

Yes they make $1400. a minute profit and they pay $4000. a minute in TAXES!! 

All of you who are complaining about oil companies making profits consider that we are a capitalistic country and it is GOOD to make profits! 

IF you had stock in these companies you would be earning dividends. 

If you had a job you would be glad the are making profit.  They employ thousands of Americans and provide them jobs. 

Microsoft makes MORE profit per minute than the oil companies.  ARe you going to tax them also?

How about food stores such as Safeway and King Soopers who make profit of 12% a month versus 8% a month for the oil companies – want to tax them more also?

IF government got out of the business of trying to micromanage American businesses, our economy would be much better off.  Let market forces determine the prices – i.e. Americans drove 10 BILLION miles less due to high prices.  That helps bring supply and demand into balance and is a factor in reducing gas costs.  So is drilling here and the use of alternatives such as nuclear, wind, bio, and most of all COAL!!  We have over 300 years worth of coal we could use for power.

Stop picking on oil companies and start investing in them!!
Also get your FACTS STRAIGHT!

Ozark-

Ah, World Net Daily, of course. Unimpeachable.

NEXT!

I’m aware of what the so-called “Fairness Doctrine” aims to do, just as I am aware of what the so-called “Employee Free Choice Act” aims to do. Neither act’s goal is reflected in its title and I do not agree with the aim of either of those acts.

“… As far as your rights, yes you do have to provide a microphone, if that’s what the public want, …” – Ozark

Uh, no; in fact if I OWN the microphone I am entitled by my Constitutionally-protected property rights to use it as I see fit, not as the public sees fit.

The mistake people make in this issue is the concept that “the public” owns the “airwaves” when in fact it is the privately-owned equipment that generates “the airwaves” and thus the broadcaster owns those “airwaves” his equipment generates.

Who is “the public” anyway? Does that not include me?

It is the same concept Locke posited in that labor or capital input conveys ownership of unowned property. It is the same concept embodied in the Homestead Act which gave property title to anyone who was able to productively farm unowned land.

The public ownership misconstruction comes from the legitimate regulation of broadcast frequencies through licensing by the government. They are not “selling” or “leasing” the airwaves, they are simply guaranteeing that the licensee has exclusive right to use a specific frequency in a specific geographic region. This is the same as mining claims. The miner registers the claim and the government allows that miner exclusive right to extract resources from the area claimed.

If Microsoft makes more profits per minute than the oil companies, how is it that the oil companies set the record for profits? Do they have more minutes?

DAve-its a question of how much profit do they make per dollar of sales.  MS made about 10 cents per dollar of sales versus oil which mae about 8 cents per dollar of sales. 

ANd anytime that the government wants to tax ONE certain industry -that is marxism and socialism in action.  THat is what Hitler did and Chavez did and etc. 

What is to stop them from taxing YOU (and Obama is going to my dear so watch out) and giving it to a Black person in Chicago who doesn’t make as much as you do?  Or a poor white in the south who is too lazy to work?  Or to someone like my neighbor who doesn’t want to work?  INCOME REDISTRIBUTION IS WHAT MARXISTS DO!!

Do you think Obama would be willing to give up his 1.65 million dollar home with 6 bedrooms, 4 bathrooms and granite floors to go live in a typical 3 bedroom 2 bath track home?  NO he wouldn’t but that is a clear picture of what windfall profits do!  why should the oil andgas companies even begin to drill here and get us off foreign oil and take all the risk of doing so to get taxed on their profits?

if you owned a business would you want your profits taxed? 

AND….right now, the airlines are subsidizing YOU through paying higher prices for jet fuel than they should be paying!  The gas and oil companies have passed on the cost for our gasoline to them.  We really should be paying 5.00 a gallon rather than the 4.00 we are being charged currently as the oil companies thought the airlines could just raise their prices and make it back!  It didn’t work!  regional airlines have gone out of business as they could’t afford it! 

anytime the government takes away from a business in form of taxes YOU will pay higher prices.  Do you think the oil companies wont raise oil prices if their profits are taxed? 

And who will pay then my dear?  YOU!!

obama and company are Marxists in disguise.  Watch out for them to tax everything they can get their hands on and if he wins with the Dems in power – you are going to get taxed to about 80% of your income. 

I suggest you get the book, LiberalFascism which is the BEST explanation of how our society has slipped from being a Democracy to a socialistic country!  And under NOBAMA it will be even worse! 

consider that the war in iraq cost us so far 6.5 billion.  Then look at NOBAMA’s global poverty initiative which will get passed if he is elected and unless we scream – that is going to cost us $8.45 BILLION for the next thirteen years to pay for POVERTY in AFRICA and overseas!!  That is income redistribution in the extreme and he will do it. 

He is Marxist through and through Dave – CHEER when companies make profits!!  Don’t try to tax them.  We are a money making society – don’t begrudge them their profits.  Go buy their stock and celebrate with them!!

Helen-

You did, in fact, claim that Microsoft makes more profit “per minute” than oil companies. That would, by definition, make Microsoft more profitable than oil, unless they were on a different timeline. I pointed this out in a jocular fashion. You changed it to a discussion of profit margin. So you’re pretty funny too…

The various arguments against taxation are often as compelling as they are always futile. But the notion that Obama is a Marxist is, no way to sugar coat it, my dear, ludicrous.

And check your figures, please. You say “consider that the war in Iraq cost us so far 6.5 billion.” So far this MONTH, maybe…

“… You say “consider that the war in Iraq cost us so far 6.5 billion.” So far this MONTH, maybe… …” – dave

Rather than cut and paste, I’d just ask you to read my comment on a different thread:

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/mccains-reverend-wright/#54

Spending priorities are always a matter of opinion. Frankly it shouldn’t be so: instead it should be a re-examination of what is the legitimate and Constitutional role of the Federal government.

I was pointing out that Helen was off by two zeroes in her assessment of the cost of the war in Iraq. The role of the Fed is clearly a subject for rigorous debate, but that isn’t what I’m addressing.

Yes, spending priorities are always a matter of opinion. I’d love to hear someone express the opinion that the half trillion dollar cost of George and Dick’s Excellent Adventure in Iraq is an example of money well spent.

DAVE – No one wants war – I especially don’t as I have one kid in the military and had another in for five years.  War is hell and the loss of life tears my heart apart everytime I see our young men and women die in defense of this country.  But I would cry a lot more if that war occurred here in the US and so would you.

Money well spent depends on where it is spent and for what!  Look at the cost of rehabbing NY after 9/11.  And the cost in lives that occurred by a faction that declared war on the US.  I would much rather have that money spent “over there” than here. 

Also look at the cost that Clinton cost us in the 5 attacks that occurred under his administration and his NOT going after Bin Laden when we could have shot him dead which he only deserves for his actions. 

And look at the cost of the earmarks that congress has done since 2000!!  That money alone would have kept our national debt billions of dollars LOWER than it is now!  Most of it went for cronies and friends who donate to candidates not to reduce our national debt!  http://www.cagw.org

If you want to talk priorities – consider that Congress and OBAMA and HILLIARY spent over 8 billion dollars in earmarks this congressional term.  THAT is a WASTE of our money fort heir cronies and for their own pockets.  I cheered when Stevens was indicted for his particular greed.

If you really want to protest something, start writing your congress people and DEMAND they stop wating our money.

IF we put that 8 billion on the interest we owe on our national debt, we would reduce it by thousands of billion dollars.

IF we drilled here and drilled now, we could sell our petrol on the world market and reduce our debt even more.  Driling here and now plus investment in other sources of energy such as nuclear and clean coal, would create millions of jobs increasing our economy which would help with our debt. 

If we stopped wasting money on windmills which Nancy and T BOONE want as it puts money in their pockets and which provide only 1% of our energy needs and focused on clean coal which would provide 47% that would also help bring down our national debt.  Nuclear is estimated to bring in about 28% of our energy needs.  Natural gas of which we have plenty also makes investment a good return for us in terms of energy.

We also need to stop all the giveaways that our government grants to those who are too lazy to work for their living. My neighbor is a perfect example!!  That alone is BILLIONS of DOLLARS!!

I often thought that if folks could wade through Louisiana flood water waste high for a day, they weren’t disabled enough to NOT work and heir payments for welfare could stop! 

If you REALLY wanted to do something other than sit and complain and blog here (although I do enjoy debating with you all) then start complaining to YOUR Congress persons!  WRITE and CALL the White House and your senators and house reps and DEAMAND they drill here, DEMAND they fund clean coal and nuclear, and so on and so forth!  Yes?  Have you written your congress person lately?

Tomorrow I am going to a rally to stop ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and DEMAND that the DEMS who are bringing in activists who want these folks to be allowed in FREE and without restriction STOP doing so!  Where I used to live 4 hospitals closed due to ILLEGALS using their services without paying for them!  THey are costing us BILLIONS above and beyond the “taxes” they pay.  And all you have to do is go to the net and type in “Costs of illegal immigration” and it will open your eyes!! 

THey are also driving down wages for AMERICANS adn taking jobs Americans would want!! 

Now wrap your head around that and start calling and writing buddy!  Thenperhaps you will stop thinking George and Cheney are having an excellent adventure.  Buy stock in Haliburton instead – it might ease your ire when those $$$ flow into YOUR pockets also.

It is totally appalling that Americans are beyond “stupid” in choosing a known Socialist, Muslim, and general liar for President of this great country.  The USA will never be the same if B. Hussein Obama is “selected” (elected) for President.  God help us all!

“… I’d love to hear someone express the opinion that the half trillion dollar cost of George and Dick’s Excellent Adventure in Iraq is an example of money well spent. …” -dave

I’d bet a dollar to a dime that the majority of Iraqis would agree that the invasion and riddance of Saddam were money well-spent.

I am not in favor of the US Military being used as a global policeman, but don’t forget that as voxoreason reminded us earlier we were still technically at war (the cease-fire being pretty much one-sided) with Iraq since 1991.

Regardless of the wisdom or lack thereof of the 2003 – 2006 “adventure,” it’s clear the only way out is to finish the job. The political (versus kinetic) fighting going on in the Iraqi government is a GOOD thing. Iraqi politicians are starting to look very much like our own.

MJ-

A “known Socialist, Muslim and general liar…” eh? 

You left out “kid-toucher”…I’m sure Corsi has some “evidence” of that too!

John Galt-

I’m not looking to the Iraqis for opinions of how American money is spent. I’m sick and tired of the ouster of Saddam being the rationale for the invasion and occupation of Iraq. If all we wanted to do was get rid of Saddam, why was it necessary to invade/occupy Iraq to the tune of over 4,000 American lives and half a trillion dollars? Overthrowing creeps like him is why we have the CIA in the first place!

And despite what vox said, we’re not “at war”…
and if the only way out is to “finish the job”, this might be a good time to define “the job”. (Actually, it should have been addressed a while ago, but these guys aren’t great planners.)

MJ COllINS – I totally agree with you!!

JOHN GALT – I totally agree with you also but NO ONE says the Iraq money is well spent but better over there than here.

I also wonder if they will “repay” us for our getting rid of Saddam? 

I have students from there and will ask them their opinion of our being there.

I do know an Iraqi Colonel who does NOT want us to leave before the country and government has stabilized – about 24-36 months or sooner if the government stops squabbling among themsleves.  He says if ALL sides get some of the petro $$$, they will shut up and start living like civilized beings.  He also opines that they are their own worst enemies.

“… Overthrowing creeps like him is why we have the CIA in the first place! …” -dave

You forget (or aren’t old enough to remember) the Congress neutered the CIA back during the Church Commission of the 70s and has been diligently increasing that damage since. Assassination was taken off the table as a tool of national policy as one effect of Church’s “findings,” so the only way to accomplish regime change now is through large-scale military action.

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