Accuracy in Media

With the official opening of the 9/11 Memorial Museum, media attention is being focused once again on the so-called 9/11 “truth” movement, the political agitators and publicity-seekers who insist that Muslim terrorists flying planes were not responsible for the deaths of nearly 3,000 people on September 11, 2001. A group called Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth is distributing 9/11 “truth” propaganda at the museum this week, insisting the attacks were an “inside job” by various forces.

Emily Bazelon of Slate was on Jake Tapper’s CNN show referring to the “fringe right wing” and “anti-government” forces allegedly behind these kooky claims. Tapper did not dispute her characterization of the movement somehow being on the conservative side. He neglected to point out that Van Jones, the “former” communist who is now a co-host of CNN’s “Crossfire” show, had signed a 9/11 “truth” petition suggesting that the Bush administration deliberately allowed the terrorist attacks to happen so the U.S. could go to war against Muslims in the Middle East. This, and stories about Jones’ communist background, forced him out of his White House job.

David Corn of Mother Jones magazine had noted the 9/11 conspiracy theories “emerging on the left,” and he had written several pieces decrying them. He added, “The 9/11 conspiracy theory was just too tempting for many Bush critics. Van Jones says he was not fully aware of what he was signing when he put his John Hancock on that 9/11 petition. This might be true. But I can see how Jones and others on the left—without thinking too much—might have easily said, sure, sign my name to any call for any investigation of Bush and Cheney. And that sloppiness—if that’s what it was—has cost him his job.”

Tapper said on his show that people have a “capacity for believing crazy things,” but that the 9/11 “truth” movement demonstrates “insensitivity” to the families of the 9/11 victims.

What the families want are answers. The 9/11 attacks were entirely foreseeable and preventable, and legitimate questions remain. The record shows that the Bush administration ignored warnings that an attack like 9/11 might occur. Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden had already declared war on America, and the Able Danger military intelligence unit had identified al-Qaeda terrorist cells in America before the attacks. But this information wasn’t investigated thoroughly enough by appropriate officials in our intelligence agencies. It is truly mind-boggling that President Bush gave George Tenet, CIA director at the time of 9/11, a presidential Medal of Freedom.

To make matters worse, this intelligence failure was followed by another, when the post 9/11 anthrax attacks were falsely blamed on various U.S. scientists and not on members of al Qaeda, the likely culprits. One of those falsely blamed, Steven Hatfill, collected millions of dollars in damages from the U.S. government when the FBI tried to ruin his reputation and frame him.

This intelligence debacle is another reason why the 9/11 “truth” movement has completely lost sight of the truth.

As we said in a 2006 column, “If the Bush Administration carried out 9/11, a monumental undertaking of planning and coordination, why couldn’t it have blamed the post-9/11 anthrax attacks on Muslim Arabs as well, thus giving greater impetus to the alleged desire to go to war in the Middle East? In fact, there was evidence of a foreign or al-Qaeda connection to the anthrax attacks, but it was glossed over by the FBI, which came under pressure from liberal Senators Patrick Leahy and Thomas Daschle to find a right-wing culprit, based on the mistaken belief the anthrax could only have been manufactured in a U.S. military laboratory.”

Taking this one step further, if U.S. officials couldn’t even successfully plant evidence of weapons of mass destruction in 2003, in order to justify the war in Iraq, how could they have engineered and staged an elaborate 9/11 attack on America only eight months after Bush took office in January 2001?

If we are to believe the 9/11 “truth” movement, the Bush Administration put the plot together and finalized it in a short period of time, secretly using drones, missiles or explosives to attack the Twin Towers in New York City and the Pentagon in the Washington, D.C. area.

The record of 9/11, before and after the attacks, demonstrates incompetence, stupidity, a failure of political will, and even cover-ups of evidence. But this doesn’t mean there was an overarching “inside job” conspiracy to blame radical Muslims for conduct we know they are capable of—and have continued to carry out ever since.

History will judge whether the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq turned the tide, or fueled the fire that continues to threaten us. Evidence already suggests, however, that the Iranian regime has benefited from the American intervention in the region. Was this somehow planned by Bush and Cheney, too? Or is the outcome a result of the Obama administration changing sides in the War on Terror, with a nuclear-armed Iran and Benghazi massacre the inevitable results?

On top of the actual 9/11attacks, according to the kook theory, an elaborate cover-up was engineered, with at least the connivance of top Bush officials, in order to keep the public in the dark, so that Muslims could be blamed and America would go to war against them. This part of the theory is what attracted fringe characters such as Van Jones, predisposed to believe the worst about Bush and Cheney. The letter signed by Jones demanded an investigation into whether the Bush administration “deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.”

But not even Marxist academic Noam Chomsky believes that. More than most, he understands and sympathizes with America’s Marxist and Islamic enemies.

What needs to be investigated is the 9/11 “truth” movement, its members, and those abroad who continue to promote it. Such an inquiry initially leads to convicted con man Lyndon LaRouche, a political extremist who has a history of Russian and Arab connections. He questioned whether Muslims had staged the attacks almost immediately after they occurred.

LaRouche, who ran for president as a Democrat many times, started out as a Marxist, and in a 1976 lecture, titled, “What Only Communists Know,” declared his desire to bring into being “a new Marxist international…” LaRouche and one of his former top associates, Webster Tarpley, became leading advocates of the “inside job” theory, along with radio host Alex Jones, who is heard on dozens of radio stations and on the Internet across the U.S. Conservatives, who should know better, appear on his show.

In fact, LaRouche and Tarpley have appeared regularly on Jones’ show, with LaRouche telling Jones in 2011 that 9/11 was “a total inside job,” whatever that means. Jones’ followers, many of them marijuana advocates, lap it up. He makes sense of the world for them.

The “inside job” theory of 9/11 is appealing to those holding a Marxist or anti-Semitic view that American foreign policy is secretly manipulated by “imperialist” or “Zionist” agents. On other occasions, the puppet-masters are “global elites” or members of secret clubs. These theories preclude serious thinking about why America is under attack and by whom. Facts and evidence don’t matter when a theory about sinister secret agents with no names makes more sense.

Not surprisingly, as we have previously reported, Al Jazeera has been a reliable vehicle for the 9/11 “truth” movement, since blaming the U.S. government for the attacks conveniently shifts the blame away from the Arab/Muslim world.

An examination of the website of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth reveals something else that is very interesting—a Moscow-funded Russia Today (RT) broadcast promoting the theory. They seem proud that Moscow is signaling approval of their efforts.

This is not new. Like Al Jazeera, Russia Today television has seized on the 9/11 “truth” movement in the past, even running a series by one of its own “reporters” about the attacks being an “inside job” by certain unnamed officials.

The Kremlin and Arab propagandists must be laughing out loud at the thought that some Americans actually believe the U.S. government engineered an attack on itself on 9/11. They understand that the controversy distracts from the need to identify and defeat America’s real enemies.

It is important, therefore, for a respected journalist like Jake Tapper to seriously analyze the nature of the 9/11 “truth” movement, not leave it to a liberal reporter to make an off-hand comment without evidence that seems to identify unnamed conservatives as being somehow responsible for promoting crackpot theories in New York City this week.

If Tapper wants the truth, perhaps he should interview his colleague Van Jones about why he got involved with the lunatic fringe.



Comments

  • Richard Lowe

    More of the same tired Straw Man arguments. This genie ain’t going back into the bottle, no matter how much you try to ad hominem those on the case.

  • Patriot

    Wow Cliff, have you actually done any real research into the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth organization? Perhaps you’ve heard of the Pilots for 9/11 Truth organization, or maybe the Scientists for 9/11 truth, or how about the Scholars for 9/11 Truth… Your so-called “investigative journalism” credentials come into question with your biased and unbalanced article, peppered with communist-like propaganda leaving the reader with only one question… Are you evil or just stupid.

  • BestIntentions

    Just because it’s mainstream doesn’t mean it’s right. Plenty of very intelligent scientists and astronomers apparently believed the Sun revolved around the Earth and were just plain wrong. Free fall speed through the past of most resistance… I’m sorry, Santa Claus does not fit down my chimney and I don’t have to have NIST to tell me so. FWIW AE 9/11 truth focuses on the physical evidence, not “whodunnit.” I still think it’s possibly (if unlikely) that a group of foreign muslims were able to destroy three buildings and disappear four planes on that day. All I’m saying is something in addition to gravity caused those three buildings in New York to fall. There’s just no other way… Santa Claus…

  • Jim Creamer

    As a survivor of 9/11/2001 having exited the North Tower at 8:30am that cloudless day, Richard Gage’s work is far closer to my eye witnessed events than the malarkey cooked up by the Bush and Obama Administrations.

    I hold these criminals who planted and those who aided and abetted those who planted the demolition charges personally responsible for this heinous act for their attempted murder of my life.

  • Dante McCarty

    Idiot. ^^

  • Per Oskar

    Somewhere someone wrote: “If you can get everyone asking the wrong questions, you don’t have to worry about the answers”. This quotation is kind of applicable to this article. There’s a whole lot more to 9/11 Truth than just “Controlled demolition”, “Bush and Cheney did it” and “No plane at the Pentagon”.

    And, yeah, don’t forget, Cliff, that it were the 9/11 family members who started the so-called Truth Movement – enforcing the formation of the (so-called) independent Commission.

  • Sighburbully

    Well stated.

  • Sighburbully

    Thank you, I thought it was just me. This is as hair brained an article as I’ve read in along time. You notice the demolition details are always conspicuously absent. Every paragraph is liberally sprinkled with kook, fringe, communist, Lyndon LaRouche…Huh? Another favored tactic is to shift attention from obvious factual flaws like what really hit the Pentagon and instead “acknowledge” Intel failures. Of course this segues quite nicely right to the expansion of the domestic surveillance laws which will surely prevent further attacks by “Al-Qaeda”. I recommend you stay on as a shill for the mainstream camp Cliff. If this is your best effort to shore-up and calm the restless that may be waking-up, I don’t think you are smart enough for alternative.

  • Sighburbully

    Dante, Google ad hominem argument before you post again please.

  • Nani

    I agree, Per Oskar… The first items in my 9/11 Truth bibliography are the documentaries 9/11 Press for Truth, and 9/11 In Their Own Words, which tell the stories of the Jersey Girls (and other 9/11 family members’) struggle to bring the 9/11Commission into being, and their subsequent frustration and outrage when their carefully researched questions to government officials were glossed over, ignored and played down …”there-there,” nicey-nice” -like. I don’t follow this Cliff Kincaid guy, but I can see from the way he’s written this article that he’s vastly uninformed, and bases his article on irrelevancies instead of well- researched facts.

  • KB

    lol. Dante did put it succinctly. The author of this article is an Idiot. So much garbage that it does not even justify a response.

  • Sighburbully

    Agreed.

  • sanderson

    Cliff Kincaid is the kook here. What is he talking about? He says “an inquiry [on 9/11 truth movement] initially leads to … Lyndon LaRouch.” Oh really? That’s what you say? You just pull some moron out of a hat and link him to an entire movement about 99.999999% of which doesn’t give a crap about Lyndon LaRouch. They care about the TRUTH – something the supposed “journalist” Cliff Kincaid seems unable to practice. You know who needs to be investigated? Cliff Kincaid. Let’s investigate his deep background and ties folks. Game on.

  • Paul F Getty

    I just have to wonder what kind of pressure “they” put Mr. Kincaid under, or what kind of bribe money he took, to write such a bag of crap propaganda piece. I doubt he is so stupid to believe what he wrote. Seriously, are there any journalists that can come forward and tell us how the system forces them to write such garbage.
    This is criminal…..to knowingly coverup facts and truth for personal gain, or threaten others to do so. We need these people to take the place of drug a users in the jail calls.

  • M2000

    Bwahaha, you “Truthers” claim you are so much against government but demand an investigation on people you don’t agree with? F you.

  • M2000

    Yea, you’re right up there with all those holocaust deniers, want us to believe the holocaust was a fake, but then you want us to believe your movement is real. Fake, fake, fake, fake.

  • M2000

    I find it so inconsistent with “Truthers” that they support the Pauls whom have been pandering to the Bushes via amnesty hey that’s okay their cause is backed by frauds.

  • M2000

    So now you’re claiming he was paid to write this? Wow, where’s your proof? Like the proof you claim demolitions were set under the WTC?

  • whole2th

    Such writers, in my view, are guilty of racketeering in the cover-up of 9/11. The record of their complicity in the cover-up is right here for all to see. “Investigative Journalism” is a cruel hoax. I’ll bet there are no Hawaiians in control of the AIM Center. http://Israeldid911.info

  • sisterlauren

    This is a really ugly smear. A hit piece. I will enjoy seeing it torn to shreds by people who have bothered to actually look at the evidence. People who know how to “do science.”

    I have a leg up on reporters in general. I dated and married one. I know their job.

  • sisterlauren

    I would say his “investigative credentials” begin and end with his fat pay check.

    This “reporting”, if we can call it that, is as biased as it can get. I have never seen worse. That is a high bar too, because I follow various issues in Israel.

  • sisterlauren

    I thought his smearing of Van Jones was especially repugnant.

  • sisterlauren

    I checked with Israelis to see if they thought the Native Americans had also suffered a holocaust. They said only the Jews had been treated so badly.

    You know what that is? Native American holocaust denial.

    I wish I had the money to do a study. I would really like to know what percentage of Jews are Native American holocaust deniers. I suspect it is in the double digits.

  • sisterlauren

    I think a site that calls itself Accuracy in Media should be a lot more accurate. This article is in fact a TOTAL FRAUD.

  • sisterlauren

    The easiest way to figure out who did it is to look at who is covering it up.

  • sisterlauren

    Did you hear or see any explosions?

    The debunkers claim there were no witnesses who heard or saw any explosions.

    I think they have proven themselves over and over again to be massive liars.

  • M2000

    Paulbots and “Truthers” embrace the lie that Native Americans are so peaceful ignoring whatever wars they had with each other before Europeans came over to conquer them.

    Go F yourself you race hustling buffoon. You Paulbot/”Truthers” side with cultural Marxists who embrace “Indigenous People’s Day”.

  • M2000

    You’re an ugly “Truther”.

  • sisterlauren

    Truthers are not against government, they are against a CORRUPT government. The truthers want to get their tax money’s worth. We pay for this crappy government, therefore we have the right and the DUTY to keep tabs on it.

  • M2000

    Blah, blah, blah, “Truthers” promote weak arguments and then even accuse fellow “Truthers” who do not believe bombs were planted but missiles were used to take down the WTCs are “government agents”.

  • M2000

    Hating white people sounds okay with you, yea let’s use government against white people that’s okay to race hustling agitators like you.

  • sisterlauren

    I suspect that he is in fact that stupid as to believe the official story. It is something reporters are selected for, it is like a job requirement.

    I know this as a fact from my ex-husband’s experience working as a newspaper reporter. He quit in order to go back to school so as to know more about what he was reporting on.

    Really, they choose ignorant people on purpose and call it “unbiased.” Once you know about the subject you are reporting on, then they call it “biased” and refuse to even allow it.

  • sisterlauren

    Try rewriting that sentence, the grammar is impossible to figure out.

  • sisterlauren

    I’m white. I do not hate white people. I love them.

  • M2000

    Anti-white moron claims they’re not bias but attacks white people.

  • M2000

    You’re Jeb Bush, or maybe you’re one of his campaign staffers.

  • sisterlauren

    Actually, considering my advanced age I’m rather pretty.

  • M2000

    You’re vile inside.

  • sisterlauren

    LOL, you are an idiot. I’m a peace activist. I have been working on legalizing pot and gay marriage for over ten years. To accuse me of supporting any Bush is completely delusional.

    Really, you’d come off a lot better if you did a little more home work. But then of course you would also know that 9/11 was an inside job. Bush and Cheney did it with the help of their Israeli friends. Big media covered it all up, meaning that they were also involved.

    Don’t worry, we have a solution …

    The Coup – “The Guillotine”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acT_PSAZ7BQ

  • sisterlauren

    You are projecting.

  • M2000

    The Bushes are your biggest enablers being Jeb Bush with his “acts of love” comment along with his self-hating white agenda which people like you regularly promote. I hope you wake up one day realizing what a changed culture we’d live in, whether it be a Marxist or Islamic one.

    What difference does it matter Useful Idiots like you will disappear anyway.

  • sisterlauren

    You medan like when I informed Dianne Feinstein’s office I had a solution to the war in Iraq and the reply was to be threatened by a Black helicopter?

    I’m not a Useful Idiot, I’m what GW referred to as “the intellectual elite.” He said we can be ignored because there are so few of us. Then he had spyware installed in my computer.

  • sisterlauren

    What we embrace is the rule of law. We think treaties should be respected along with basic human rights.

  • sisterlauren

    I’m not anti-white but I do resent being brutally raped by a white guy. He really tore me apart, if I did not have surgery to correct my injuries I would have died about four years ago.

    You know what? The police put him up to it.

    In international law that is a conspiracy to commit torture and it is fully illegal. I live blogged the whole thing which I think inspired actions in other countries.

  • sisterlauren

    What is the comment policy for aim.org?
    http://www.aim.org/about/frequently-asked-questions-faq/

    We welcome comments and criticism as long as they are civil and pertinent to the topic. Abusive comments — including personal or ad hominem attacks on other users, offensive language, and off-topic comments — may be deleted. We reserve the right to ban users who repeatedly violate these policies.

  • sisterlauren

    What is the comment policy for aim.org?

    We welcome comments and criticism as long as they are civil and pertinent to the topic. Abusive comments — including personal or ad hominem attacks on other users, offensive language, and off-topic comments — may be deleted. We reserve the right to ban users who repeatedly violate these policies.

  • sisterlauren

    What is the comment policy for aim.org?

    We welcome comments and criticism as long as they are civil and pertinent to the topic. Abusive comments — including personal or ad hominem attacks on other users, offensive language, and off-topic comments — may be deleted. We reserve the right to ban users who repeatedly violate these policies.

  • sisterlauren

    flagged

  • sisterlauren

    Does he work for free?

  • Paul F Getty

    I think you are right.
    By the way, hi. Long time no see.
    Remember the Alternet days?

  • M2000

    Spamming, you’re spamming. Yea, accusing the author of being paid isn’t a violation of rules. Who the heck are you to accuse of breaking rules?

  • M2000

    There is no rule of law when you accuse people of being paid for writing a different opinion from you “Truther” cause.

  • M2000

    Ms So Much Into Rules And Civility suddenly thinks I’m doing this for free or paid. Yea what hypocrisy from “Truthers”.

  • M2000

    Yea, blogging and hash tags, the latest thing from “Truthers” and this administration. Your mental episode here responding to EVERYONE those who are “Truthers” and are not is the obvious there is something wrong with you.

  • sisterlauren

    CNN misled in 30 percent of its coverage on climate science — mostly from airing false balance debates, according to a report from the Union of Concerned Scientists.

    The Real Reason Why No One Cares About CNN’s Climate Stories
    http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/05/22/3440206/cnn-climate-change/

    May I suggest that CNN is quickly losing all credibility? How much can you present dirty liars as “balance” and maintain credibility? I think CNN is pushing the envelop.

  • sisterlauren

    Walk of Jesus.

  • M2000

    Why are you silent then about the real truth of what Islamic fanatics do to Christians in their neck of the woods?

  • M2000

    Look at yourself, bwahaha, you’re the one projecting on this article on whether or not it was government sponsored. Says the many “Truthers” who accused the author he’s being paid.

  • M2000

    “Truther”, demands freedom of speech except when you disagree with the “Truther” and turns to a “government funded” operation to shut me down.

  • M2000

    And yet you demanded the same site to shut me up. “Lovely”.

  • M2000

    You called Accuracy in the Media fraud, why are you trying to use them to shut me up then? Do I take a hint of some hypocrisy here?

  • M2000

    So let me get this straight on an online form if there is an article like this one and you out a “Truther” as a liar and they flag you, but they believe you’re somehow paid by the government wouldn’t that be a tad bit inconsistent especially if they feel the author of this article is also paid by the government?

    What’d the author or the moderator really do if they’re government agents and if I’m one since you people like to accuse me or people like me of being one. Big hypocrisy here.

  • M2000

    You cannot flag my comments if you feel I’m somehow “part” of a government operation with Accuracy in the Media, the same website you called a “fraud” right here on this form.

  • Robert

    So wrong and misleading. Google “American Anthrax” and watch that video, for starters..

  • Robert

    Watch “September 11 – The New Pearl Harbor” to really GET where the “truthers” are coming from in the types of questions they are asking and demanding answers for.

    The article above is an absolute disgrace in terms of it’s appeal to a base emotional bias/reaction and as a propaganda piece. It just doesn’t pass muster.

    All truth passes through three stages:

    First it is ridiculed

    Second it is violently opposed

    Third, it is accepted as self evident.

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer

  • Robert

    Jeb Bush was a fellow co-signatory to the PNAC document which authorized and called for this nightmare.

  • chuck

    Lauren’s (Larry? Laurent? Lloyd?) no longer is simply amusing. Unless, she’s (he’s, it’s) a double (or triple, or quadruple) agent for Israel, China, the CIA and Road Runner.

  • Robert

    Shut up, you don’t need to be crawling over every response to parrot your official story believing tripe. You are a minority of almost one. We already KNOW what you “believe”.

  • M2000

    Wow, cannot believe how “Truthers” like to say they’re for freedom of speech and then if you disagree with them they tell you to shut up.

    How about the real official story of Islamic radicalism, oh wait, many of them like Kevin Barrett don’t seem to mind to have it both ways and have you as Useful Idiots.

  • chuck

    What was worse in terms of percent of an ethnic group exterminated in a short time, eg, less than a year?

    a) Native Americans(a heterogeneous group that is largely found and has been for centuries as a component of European immgrants from Spain, England, Germany and Portuagal) or

    b) Hutus of Rwanda, 1994.

    Has Lauren “checked” with Tutsis to see fi they thought the “Native Americans” had also suffered a holocaust?

    And which “Jews” did “Lauren”(Larry?) check with? Orthodox, Satmar, secular American, secular Russian, secular Israeli, Reconstructionist, Reformed, Liberal, Non denominational, Ladino, secular Sephardic, ultra religious Sephardic, Chabad, or Modern Orthodox, to name just a fraction of the meaningful elements of the bundle of often totally varying groups, sects, ethnic groups, and religious denominations plus atheists and agnostics, that compose Jews or even Israelis today.

    But we have our own Donald Sterling here at Progressive sites, the one and only, “Lauren”(Larry?) who never met a stereotype she(he?)(it?) didnt espouse or declaim.

    Now I’ve given It a Headache.

  • M2000

    And the Pauls embrace Jeb on immigration. Okay for a Paul to be a fraud.

  • M2000

    If “Truthers” want the truth, read how a certain faith founded by Muhammad came into being which ranges FAR BACK BEFORE 9/11. How did Islam conquered all that land? Peaceful co-existence?

  • chuck

    Ha. We caught you, Lauren(Larry?). You weave in and out of claims to be a “Native” American and a victim of their historic woes. Yet occasionally, like this occasion, you fess up. Caught Lorenzo.

    Forty Love
    Game.
    Set
    Match

  • chuck

    Or an “impaired” relation of the Bushes that they keep out of sight in one of the family’s old mansions in NewEngland from which she(or he or it) pound out rants from multiple personalities!

  • M2000

    I met someone on drugs on the subway tabble about these sort of conspiracy theories as he was talking to someone else, maybe it is Larry.

  • M2000

    Read up what Muhammad and his followers did to all the non-Muslim faiths that use to rule the Middle East, along with other regions like Afghanistan and other Central Asian countries.

  • chuck

    Arent you also a loving “Mom”(or dad), wife( or husband) or partner(male, female or bigender)?

    sounds like you have a trust fund, as we note that none of your listed activities would entail much if any compensation, unless you have some big Patches of Pot up there in the Redwoods. Please dont cut them down.

  • chuck

    M2000, your theory is credible as to the source of “Sister”(Brother?) Lauren. Her lunacies make any theory of origin,including “unintelligent design”, let alone springing from the Bush(es) possible. However I disagree a bit with your comparing her(he? it?) to “Useful Idiots” I understand the Idiot part, not the “useful”. Lenin wouldnt have wasted a bullet on her(he? it?) A train ride to the end of the Archangel Peninsula perhaps.

  • chuck

    Just because you may have used a rest room at Humbolt State doenst mean you are part of any intellectual elite.

  • chuck

    sounds like it’s time for Lauren(Larry? Lorenzo? Lunatic?) to say Bye Bye.

  • chuck

    You are regularly deleted by progressive websites for your antisemitic remarks and obscenties.

  • chuck

    Like the treaties after WWII that allowed the forced displacement of millions of residents of Eastern Europe, Korea, and Indochina?

  • Erudite Mavin
  • Erudite Mavin

    Academic board of new Ron Paul institute includes 9/11 truther, other radicals

    Posted By Jamie Weinstein 04/23/2013

    The academic board for former Rep. Ron Paul’s recently unveiled Institute for Peace and Prosperity includes at least one 9/11 Truther and two of the most well-known apologists for Iran’s theocratic government in the United States.

    In Washington last week, Ron Paul launched his policy institute, with the goal of mobilizing “colleagues and collaborators of Dr. Paul’s to participate in a broad coalition to educate and advocate for fundamental changes in our foreign and domestic policy,” according to its website.

    One of the academic board members for the institute is Eric Margolis, an independent journalist who has questioned whether Osama bin Laden was behind the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, and wondered in writing whether the attacks were not instead really orchestrated by “America’s far right or Israel.”

    “After 9/11, Secretary of State Colin Powell promised Americans the State Department would issue a White Paper detailing bin Laden’s guilt. Afghanistan’s Taliban government asked for this document before it would extradite bin Laden, as the U.S. was demanding,” Margolis wrote in a 2010 article entitled, “9/11. The Mother of all Coincidences.”

    “The White Paper was never produced, and the U.S. ignored proper legal procedure and invaded Afghanistan. We still wait for evidence,” the journalist asserted.

    “I remain uncertain that Osama bin Laden was really behind the attacks. Much circumstantial evidence points to him and al-Qaida, but conclusive proof still lacks,” he continued.

    In the article, Margolis propagated the conspiratorial notion that the 9/11 attacks could very well have been President George W. Bush’s Reichstag fire.

    “On 28 February, 1933, fire, set by a Dutch Jew, ravaged the Germany’s parliament, the Reichstag,” he wrote.

    “While the Reichstag’s ruins were still smoking, Adolf Hitler’s government declared a war against ‘terrorism.’ A ‘Decree for the Protection of People and State’ was promulgated suspending all legal protections of speech, assembly, property, and personal liberties. The Reichstag fire allowed the government to round up ‘terrorism’ suspects without due process of law and made police powers near absolute. Sound familiar?”

    “I’ve seen no hard evidence to date that 9/11 was a plot by America’s far right or by Israel or a giant cover-up,” Margolis concluded. “Just, perhaps, the Mother of All Coincidences. In the end, it may just have been 19 angry Arabs and a bumbling Bush administration looking for someone else to blame.”

    Another academic board member, Southwestern Law School Professor Butler Shaffer, has danced around trutherism, lamenting in an article that too many Americans seemingly refuse to even entertain the notion that the government may have perpetrated the 9/11 attacks.

    “I spoke to a young college student the other day,” he wrote in 2006. “He informed me that he had asked his political science professor whether he thought it possible that persons within the United States government might have been involved in the 9/11 attacks. His professor adamantly denied even the possibility, saying that American government officials were too decent to ever do such a thing. Is this what passes for ‘science’ in the study of government?”

    “In light of the lies, forgeries, cover-ups, and other deceptions leading to a ‘war’ in Iraq, how can any intellectually honest person categorically deny the possibility of the involvement of American political interests in 9/11?” Shaffer added, before emphasizing he was not asserting the U.S. government was involved — only that it was one of two likely culprits along with Al-Qaeda.

    “What forces were responsible for the crimes of 9/11?” he wrote. “Admittedly, I do not know, nor am I prepared to transform my skepticisms into accusations. Perhaps it is the lawyer in me that has this strange attraction to evidence as the basis for my empirical judgments. In employing the ‘cui bono?’ test as a point of departure, I find only two groups which, in Inspector Morse’s question, seem to have benefited from these attacks: (1) Al-Qaeda, and (2) the United States government.”

    Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett also grace the institute’s academic board. The married scholars have often been criticized for being apologists for the Iranian regime.

    At a recent event at the Center for National Interest on their new book, the two essentially blamed the entirety of the conflict between Iran and the United States on U.S. actions. When asked if Iran has done anything to possibly contribute to the current tensions, Flynt Leverett punted.

    “In terms of what Iran has done, I’m really not interested in keeping score,” Flynt said

    Asked about Iran’s abysmal human rights record at the forum, Flynt turned the focus back to the U.S., saying, “I think the U.S. government simply has no credibility to address human rights issues in Iran or in the Middle East more broadly.”

    Hillary Mann Leverett even praised the Iranian regime’s record on women’s rights, despite the fact that in Iran, among other things, a woman’s testimony in court is worth half a man’s and a woman can be punished by the government for dressing immodestly.

    “[I]t is a country that actually delivers for women,” she said.

    “[B]ecause it is an Islamic framework, the government has been able to make investments and institute policies that have transformed the role of women — transformed the role of women — that give universal access to women from preschool to PhD so that today the majority of students in all the universities … are women,” she argued.

    In September 2010, when he was in New York to speak at the United Nations, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad even visited Hillary Mann Leverett’s Yale graduate seminar to talk to her students.

    Another of the institute’s academic board has suggested that Afghans are more justified in attacking the U.S. than the U.S. is in attacking Afghanistan, which harbored Osama bin Laden and refused to turn him over after the 9/11 attacks.

    “My short answer to these critics is that there is no country that is now justified in invading any other country because of the World Trade Center attack of 9/11, but if there were, it would be the Afghans who would be more justified in committing further terrorist acts in the US than we would be in killing further innocents in that nation in this terroristic manner,” Loyola University New Orleans professor Walter Block wrote in 2007.

    “In my view complete justice would require that the US (well, those individuals responsible) pay reparations for initiating these murderous hostilities. We killed far more innocent people abroad than the 3,000 guiltless Americans who perished in New York City on 9/11, a day that will long live in infamy.”

    Block considers the 9/11 attack an understandable reaction to U.S. foreign policy abroad and if the U.S. is justified in going into Afghanistan to get Osama bin Laden, the victims of American aggression abroad are even more justified in invading the U.S.

    “Long before 9/11 took place, our own country was busy killing innocents abroad in those parts of the world,” he wrote. “Thus, if the U.S. is justified in going into Afghanistan to hunt for Osama bin Laden, and other perpetrators and aiders and abetters of the crimes of 9/11 in New York City, then they are even more righteous in doing precisely the same thing to us.”

    Block is also a supporter of secession and a critic of “the actions of the monster Lincoln.”

    Writing about how the U.S. could play a mediating role in many of the world’s conflicts, Block said the U.S. is “hampered” from doing so by the results of the Civil War, which he refers to as “the war against Southern secession.”

    “A century and a half after the war against Southern secession, the foreign policy of our country is still hampered by this tragic event,” he wrote.

    “That is, had the war of federal aggression not taken place, had the South been allowed to leave peacefully, America would be in a far better position to exert a positive direction on several events which trouble the globe at the present time.”

    “Secession will not cure all the world’s ills, but it will bring us a step closer to this goal,” he continued. “When and if the U.S. ceases to imprison the Confederacy, we will be in a far better position to bring about world peace; or, at least, to help put out many local conflagrations.”

    The Ron Paul Institute’s executive director tells The Daily Caller that Paul is not “horrified” by the views of his institute’s academic board members.

    “Dr. Paul is not horrified by diversity,” Daniel McAdams said in an email.

    “For the purposes of the institute, he wanted important academics who agree with him on the moral and practical necessity of a foreign policy of peace. He has such a board.”

  • chuck

    No they havent. There were plenty of eyewitnesses however who saw your friends from Al Queda piloting civilian aircraft full of terrified civilians ramming the Twin Towers.

  • M2000

    “Intellectual elite”, like how you accused Accuracy in the Media of being a fraud then asked them to shut me up?

  • M2000

    Islamic fanatics won’t want to waste Sharia on her/him either.

  • Erudite Mavin

    I have gone face to face over the years with 9/11 Truthers who are also Ron Paul cultists . They have the same talking points as the Code Pinkos and other Radical Leftists

  • chuck

    You’re in Israel? Where? in a haredi settlement east of Jerusalem? Are you Ashkenazic, Separdic, Samaritan, or Falashah? Or just a Hasidic Guy named Lev or Lieb who wishes he were a Lauren?

  • chuck

    Another Wacky Whack by Lauren(Larry? Lloyd?).

    Van Jones, unlike you and the truther loonies, doenst think 9/11 wasnt the result of aircraft piloted by Islamists. He thinks that the Bush Administration, and the Clinton one too, aggravated people in the Arab world who then took their antiamerican rage out on innocent civilians.

    Van Jones is not a Truther, he does not believe the antisemitic, nut case theories that Lauren(Larry?) advocates on one progressive site after another.

    The author’s reference to Jones was not flattering, true, but it wasnt because the author stated that Jones himself was a Truther. But the looney truthers like “Lauren”(sic) would have readers believe that. Because the truthers are dishonest, and in the case of socalled Lauren, not very bright.

  • chuck

    The intel failures are well documented, and for that, Bush and Clinton deserve contempt, not the millions that they make each year from pensions, speaking fees, and media reverence. What is not documented at all in a credible, verifiable manner after all these years are the lunatic theories that explosives set off by Jews destroyed the twin towers or the Pentagon.

  • chuck

    The “official” story is overall accepted by hundreds of millions of people in the US and other educated societies. Al Queda was roundly denounced by nations throughout the globe for its very unislamic assault on civilians, behavior which it continues to this day in Syria and Iraq. I wont say you are a “minority of one”, but your are part of a very small, mean pack of utter fools and or bigots.

  • chuck

    The truthers in fact reflect qualities that Hitler and Stalin would admire.

  • chuck

    Since no one is covering up how the actual destruction in Virginia or NYC happened, or how the Pennsylania crash happened, then the easiest way to figure out Truthers(sic) is to assume the obvious: they are people with low self esteem, no analytic capacity, extreme paranoia, and in some cases, like yours, Brother Lauren, a nasty case of antisemitism and uncontrollable hate.

  • Robert

    Wrong. At least a full one third of US adults do not accept the official story as an accurate rendering of the events of 9/11, and outside the US the percentage climbs to about half, or more.

  • Robert

    You watch the video I’ve referenced and I’ll do your reading assignment, sound fair?

  • Robert

    Newsflash. Paul is Libertarian, and the Alex Jones people tend to be right wing leaning ie: “don’t tread on me” and all that. It’s not leftist in the least.

  • chuck

    The Muslim world also thinks “Zionists” run the world. Maybe you agree?

  • Robert

    Not at all. Your anti-Muslim sentiment however is well noted. It’s a common knee-jerk reaction by the ignorant. For the record, I’m Canadian and a Christian.

  • Per Oskar

    Oh, and btw…

    “the post 9/11 anthrax attacks were falsely blamed on various U.S. scientists and not on members of al Qaeda, the likely culprits”

    al Qaeda – the likely culprits of the anthrax attacks? Geez, Cliff, just where and when did any credible information surface, pointing in that direction..? Had there been ANY links to al Qaeda, don’t you think we would have heard it repeated over and over again in the media?

  • chuck

    Silly fellow. The Muslims overwhelmingly in polls candidly admit they are antisemitic, a condition that existed long before the establlishment of Israel. I have tremendous respect for basic Islam, a simple, clear religion, like Abrahamic Judaism, created by nomadic peoples who were integrated with nature and survived in the harsh, dry deserts. You dont even give muslims the credit of their own beliefs. I’ll convince you over lamb and babagonous in the North African or Western Mediterranean restaurant of your choice in Toronto(must have a wine license).

  • chuck

    At least he works, Larry.

  • chuck

    You know their “job”. OK, we wont go there, (for now).

  • chuck

    As I’m sure you are, Lauren, Larry, Lancelot, or Lollipop.

  • Erudite Mavin

    Paul and Jones are both libertarians, have vetted this crowd over many years.
    also Rand is a libertarian posing as a Republican in order to
    win elections.
    Ron and his cultists especially his new org. is a combination of Neo Marxist, to Neo Nazi. Paul’s mantra is Blame America First along with blame Israel.

  • chuck

    Ha, a person who bothers the world constantly with rape fantasies, abuse and mind control is accusing someone of “projecting”. Lauren-Larry goes where even Freud dare not tread.

  • chuck

    “You know what? The police put him up to it.”

    The affinity for indefinite pronouns continues…and for a reason. A good reason.

  • Robert

    The problem with Islam is that the war-lording of Medina because it came later, trumps the enlightenment of Mecca. The violence and intolerance and the militarization is all in the latter parts of the Qur’an. Islam needs to lose the latter to preserve the former.

    Islam has nothing whatsoever to do however, with 9/11. The 19 invited in from Saudi Arabia, many of whom were trained by Americans on American soil, some living in apartments rented from FBI agents and followed around the country, they were the patsy element required to form the basis of the official story narrative.
    Watch “September 11 – The New Pearl Harbor” to learn the truth about 9/11 as the false-flag, black-op, psy-op that it really was.

  • Robert

    So they are radical right-wingers, not leftists, oh Erudite one.
    As to 9/11 skepticism (of the OS conspiracy theory) that’s neither a left or right wing phenomenon.
    I myself am Liberal, while Alex Jones and many of his supporters are hard right wing conservative, even to the point of Libertarianism.

  • Robert

    They tried to create the linkage, just Google and Watch the documentary “American Anthrax”.

  • Erudite Mavin

    Having vetted this crowd for years, Paul and Jones are not Conservatives but Libertarians.
    Two very different views and policy.
    Not only is Paul Not right wing but shares more with the Neo Left.
    You need to do deep research instead of knee jerking

  • zlop

    These false flags are orchestrated and co-ordinated from the city of London.
    Indicative is Lyndon B. Johnson ordering USS Liberty to be sunk.

    Some 9/11 background videos here
    http://www.abeldanger.net/p/videos.html

  • Daemon Bourne

    Hitler eliminated his political rivals by conducting a false flag attack on the Reichstag. If there were more “truthers” Hitler could not have ascended to power. It is rather sheeple like you who enable dictators and corrupt politicians to rule over our countries.

  • Daemon Bourne

    You do not need to go that far back. Since the holocaust there have been genocides of far greater magnitude in both Russia and China. Stalin alone eliminated 40 million Russians.
    The US dropped two nuclear bombs on cities… Not military installations, not on an army, but on cities.
    Mothers, babies, children, elderly, all of them burned to death… And yet we hear nothing about the savagery of the US. Even now most people in the US think that was justified.
    After all most people don’t condemn crimes based on how heinous those actions were, but purely based on what the media tells you to condemn. People condemn the holocaust more than any other crime because they are programmed by the mass media to hate specific crimes but not others.

  • chuck

    Hitler always struck me as the kind of lunatic who would have been a truther today, particularly since his psychosexual disorders and paranoia caused nearly all of his irrational antisemitism, a trait Truthers likewise emote today.

    Thanks for the example, Daemon, and stay away from Bunkers!

  • Per Oskar

    Sure they did – just as Cheney did with regards to alleged links between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks. I’ve read extensively about it, have watched “American anthrax” (and, btw, am friends with producer Robbie on FB), but since those links were proven false* way back, it is as deplorable as it is telling to see the author of this article making such claims in 2014.

    *it should be noted that he is probably right about Hatfill’s innocence (and Ivins – R.I.P. – may just as well be completely innocent as well).

  • beijingyankee

    If we are to think 19 Arabs being run out of a cave in Afghanistan were responsible for towers in free fall and put nano thermate into the 911 dust, then we are in collusion with the terrorists inside the Beltway and guilty of admiring Julius Streicher journalism.

  • M2000

    Freedom of speech isn’t supported by the “Truth” movement if you disagree with the “Truthers” like this lame “Truther”.

  • M2000

    Bwahaha, you admit Islam conquers, but then you tell us not to believe the official story, even though Osama bin Laden overtly cites the Koran. Wow, what stupid dummy Dhimwhits!

  • M2000

    So “Truthers” don’t want us to blame Islamic radicalism for 9/11, yet they want us to believe all their conspiracy theories, HAARP, and so forth that do not exist?

  • M2000

    Ron Paul will always be known as wRONg Paul.

  • Truth Seeker

    As others have already pointed out, this author leaves out some key pieces of evidence.
    3 things I just can’t grasp about 911: What actually hit the pentagon, and why was the 2 frame video clip released which shows absolutely nothing?
    How did building 7 fall at freefall speed (confirmed by NIST) without explosives planted?
    Why did 3 of the 4 hijacked planes come from an airport whose security was done by George Bush’s brother & uncle (Securacom), as well as that very same company providing security for the World Trade Center complex?

  • doesn’t matter

    hey chuck and m2000 seriously go fuck yourselves please

  • Erudite Mavin

    Conservatives are for a strong National Security and also support Israel.
    Ron Paul and his Libertarians are the exact Opposite.
    All you have to do is read his comments over the years and especially his new org.

  • Erudite Mavin

    Exactly

  • Erudite Mavin

    Ron Paul and the Libertarians blow off the Radical Muslims because they are the enemy of Paul’s enemy.

    Ron Paul stated he would not have sent troops to fight the Nazis and save the Jews – and Israel shouldn’t exist.
    this is where the PaulBots stand, Radical Left to Neo Nazi

    http://thespeechatimeforchoosing.wordpress.com/2012/01/01/ron-paul-i-wouldnt-have-sent-troops-to-fight-nazis-and-save-jews-israel-shouldnt-exist/

  • Gord Hicks

    Wow, for an organization that bills itself as “media watchdog whose mission is to promote accuracy, fairness and balance in news reporting’

    http://www.aim.org/about/mission-statement/

    this is a remarkably unfair and unbalanced and inaccurate piece. In fact it’s a hit piece, not even a vague facade at media accountability and fairness to the 9/11 truth movement. The title itself “Lies of the 9/11 “Truth” Movement” is a journalistic disgrace blatantly biased and inaccurate. Failing a full and unequivocal retraction of this article AIM has no credibility whatsoever going forward making any criticisms of the media.

    This article hasn’t even disproved anything the 9/11 Truth movement alleges. Moreover nowhere does it provide any proof of the government/corporate media 9/11 narrative about the 19 amateurs who got amazingly lucky and defeated the entire multi-billion dollar US civilian/defence infrastructure, hit 75% of their targets and, somehow, miraculously, brought down three heavily reinforced steel/concrete structures with only 2 planes etc etc.

    It is irrational to believe the government/corporate media 9/11 narrative. It is rational to question it The government investigations were utterly fraudulent (NIST and 9/11 commission reports) No one can prove the government/corporate media 9/11 narrative. No one ever will. But that doesn’t stop AIM from endorsing those who attack people who question the government/corporate media 9/11 narrative and engaging in similar attacks themselves. Irrational to the point of surreal. Utterly unethical. AIM should be ashamed of themselves

    I’d have thought AIM’s response to the CNN attack on 9/11 Truth would have been to call CNN on the the gross imbalance in Tapper’s show, no one from 9/11 Truth there to represent their side, and the unethical behavior of the host and guest, calling 9/11 Truth activists names eg crazy, anti-Semitic etc
    The use of the term conspiracy theorists to describe AE911Truth is a gross distortion of AE911Truth. AIM knows this. AE911Truth are not conspiracy theorists they are a scientific empirical organization seeking a new investigation into the destruction of the World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9/11. They are not pointing the finger at anyone hence they can not be called conspiracy theorists.
    However as is obvious now with this Orwellian article AIM would never mention any of this since it’s true mission is not media ethics and accountability but to defend the establishment (government/corporate media) narrative on crucial issues like 9/11

  • Honestly

    As usual, the media dismisses anybody who questions what the government tells them as mad as does their best to discredit and attack these people.
    It amazes me that anybody with a working brain cell can honestly look at those buildings coming down and not believe that they were brought down by explosives. The American government has the technology to spy on 300 plus million people and yet, they were completely outsmarted by some men sitting in some caves thousands of miles away. It is a FACT that the Bush family have been in business with the Bin laden family for almost 40 years and were meeting with them on 9/11. Architects for 9/11 truth are good people and deserve far more media attention than they are getting. They have strong physical evidence for controlled demolition. NIST has admitted freefall after being caught out. Only buildings that have been blown up collapse at freefall, that is why they left it out of their first report. The look on their faces when they are questioned about why they would leave out freefall, when it is something you can easily measure with the right piece of equipment and knowledge, should tell you that they are lying. They stumble over their answer and look very concerned. This rubbish article is an insult to people’s intelligence just like the official story.

  • bloggulator

    Accuracy in Media? ROTFLMAO. In this case, an exercise of “propaganda-mongering and intellectual cowardice of the most egregious kind”. The author is trying to defend the indefensible. It may work for those who have no background knowledge of 9/11, or are unaware that the laws of physics *cannot ever* be violated – even for the purposes of political expediency.

    The official narrative of 9/11 has been assembled from material which is fatally conflicted, impossible, wildly coincident, has no verifiable or certifiable chain of custody, is single sourced, and has been extracted by torturing prisoners. In other words, a terminally weak, fabricated, foundation-less pile of pabulum, pandering to the general population’s initial comfort zone and decades-long indoctrination inside the US against people of the Muslim faith. The same characteristics regarding the origin of the main points in the official story render it ineligible for prosecuting a case according to US law and the standards of evidence acceptable in the US justice system – but not regarding the secret military kangaroo-court “tribunals” at Guantanamo Bay for all 9/11 related cases).

    The author of this article is clearly neither interested in facts, nor truth nor accuracy, but rather, touting a wild conspiracy yarn involving “19 hijackers and a guy in a cave 10,000 miles away” who singlehandedly ran rings around the most sophisticated military-defense-intelligence-security-law enforcement network ever assembled in human history (by far), for almost two whole hours, in the most heavily monitored skies in earth, and in their own front yard, and without even a response…until after the attack sequence was finished….

    By comparison, the stories one used to hear in the Weekly World News – like the proverbial “Elvis’ two-headed alien sister-in-law’s sex scandal” – have more credibility.

  • Sighburbully

    If the government is paying you, they’re getting ripped-off…again.

  • Sighburbully

    You mean not documented on controlled media? Hmmm, I wonder why?

  • Sighburbully

    Your buddy m2000 is not very astute either.

  • Atif Aslam

    I hope for the safety and peace of all soul
    http://gossip.pk

  • M2000

    So Hitler has to fear bloggers and hash taggers? Yea that’d show him…just like how our President thinks a hash tag will bring back those Nigerian girls.

  • M2000

    Hey “Truther”, stop pretending you’re for freedom of speech and then try to silence us for disagreeing with your views.

  • M2000

    “Truthers” are the most gullible people will believe in anything even if it is cited by the USA’s enemies like Russia Today or Iran’s PressTV, hey that’s okay to believe in a foreign government’s state run media.

  • Joe

    8:30? So, 16 minutes before the attacks? How did you know to exit the building? YOU DID 9/11 DIDNT YOU?

  • WIll

    Ever notice how ALL truthers use the term “sheeple” and yet seem to not see the blatant hypocrisy?

  • Cherrylogger

    Chuck, Sister is pretty much who she says she is, and none of the agencies you suppose. She comes by her outrage honestly and does not dissemble. Prickly as a porcupine?, you bet. She is also not alone in furling her brow at the ownership of the holocaust. Hell, we all do it, kill en masse, deny it, rationalize it. Still, I give the Jews as much or more credit for reminding us of the fact as anybody else.
    Just try to remember that she is not a blonde. Oh hell, I think I just stepped in it.)

  • disqus_ppMiQUX4s3

    Ha ha. Typical.

    This site is just about the dirtiest corner of the Jew machine. Utter, knowingly Satanic, consciously lying, murderous hypocrisy.

    The earth, unfortunately, belongs to you and degenerates like you. Fear what comes after this life.

    Worldly wise but spiritually stupid, you will learn eventually.

  • M2000

    So “Truthers” don’t like being called frauds, but they can call everyone else they disagree with “frauds”.

  • chuck

    messes everywhere, that’s for sure.

    no, i dont really think she’s a gvt agent. but she ironically helps the very people and forces she claims to fear.

    she has enough trouble remembering her own past, let alone a fake double or triple cover identity..

  • chuck

    Americans have amnesia. Kampuchea. And Rwanda. And of course Armenia, and who knows how many in Sudan?

  • M2000

    Our current President bowed down to the Saudi king in his first term of office, both political parties have been in bed with the Saudis, the fact you “Truthers” only say the Bushes are involved makes no sense.

  • jack

    Apparently the findings of an optics physicist hasn’t even been looked at, check out Dr. Judy Woods findings of evidence.

  • Jökr

    Fuck you, Cliff. Simply fuck you.

  • Wolleb10

    I like this one: 9/11 cannot have been an inside job because the Bush administration was even too stupid to lie professionally about WMDs … YEAH thats real logic

  • Dante McCarty

    If you are implying, via some low form of wit, that the author of this article is in clear denial of some fairly obvious facts.. for whatever reason…then I agree. 🙂

  • Dante McCarty

    If you are implying…..via some low form of wit…that the author of this article is in clear denial of obvious pieces of evidence…then I agree with you. Suck my dick.

  • Dante McCarty

    Anyways….I probably shouldn’t have even responded to someone with the name “sighburbully” to begin with.

  • Dante McCarty

    Way to stay on topic! (You know….rather than exploit a minor grammar flaw to distract from a point well made)…..What are the interest rates on these comments btw?

  • Dante McCarty

    For me I mean, as a lowly gentile?

  • Dante McCarty

    Truthers? Paulbots? Where do you get these terms? Is this a way of coping with the presentation of clear discrepancies and facts? What is wrong with asking questions? What is wrong with not agreeing with the status quo? What is wrong with legitimately questioning your government? These “truthers” and “paulbots” or whatever else you want to call them are the only ones offering valid, alternative arguments to what is currently being shoved down the throats of the American people.

  • DaveGinOly

    “What needs to be investigated is the 9/11 “truth” movement, its members, and those abroad who continue to promote it.”

    No, we don’t need government investigating the exercise of free speech, not matter how misguided, wrong, or distorting of the political process. We investigate government activities because the government has a Constitution to abide by, and a public that it serves, but private individuals, spending their own money and exercising their constitutionally-guaranteed rights, are not the proper subject of an investigation. It’s journalism’s responsibility to investigate these people, and report on what they find, not government’s.

  • Sighburbully

    Simple and succinct. I like it.

  • Sighburbully

    I thought the article sucked too. My comment was directed at YOUR low form of wit. More like no form of articulation. FU2 danteTheDick.

  • Chomsky worked for the Pentagon. Bin Laden worked for Al-CIA-duh. Who does AIM work for?

  • You gotta be kidding me, Cliff. Address these facts: http://smu.gs/19q1JlM
    No one blames the ‘government’ but individuals certainly. That you think Al Qaeda must have sent the silicone-coated Ames strain anthrax, shows again how uninformed you are on the subjects you chose to pontificate about.

  • mark windows

    Investigative journalism, is this a joke?

  • derek

    All anyone has to do is go to you tube and watch building 7 fall into it’s own footprint to know it was an inside job, or if you are willing to spend 5 hours go to you tube and watch “September 11th the new pearl harbor” for the most overwhelming evidence imaginable.

  • burkanuck

    Given that my German mother-in-law spent time in camps herself for the crime of having lost her “papers” and that she spent the entire war in Germany and confirms the systematic extermination of Jews, Gypsies, gays, communists, and on down the line, I think I’ll consider her something of a reliable source rather than some whack-job nutcase like you. Please, shut up.
    What Israelis believe about Native Americans is UTTERLY irrelevant to whether or not the Jewish holocaust took place in Nazi Germany. You seriously need to get some professional help because if this is your idea of a legitimate argument you clearly aren’t playing with a full deck.

  • trevor the amazing

    funny you mention 9/11 truth movement as that’s another way they misrepresent their case. they have 2,000 engineers and architects…yes they do. but guess what? guess how many of those engineers are actually structural or civil engineers (ones who actually have a right to talk about structural failure)…that number is closer to 40. so yes, they suck you in by claiming they have 2,000 people who know what they’re talking about, when in reality they don’t.

    fun fact for the day.

    one of the co founders of the truth movement has an arrest record for conning someone out of 200,000 dollars…can anyone guess who it is?

  • umbrarchist

    Too much of the Truth Movement is more interested in conspiracies than PHYSICS but apparently it does not qualify to get into this article.

  • StPete

    This “Don’t spread Facebook lies” story (TBT 6/15/14 page 4P) is itself a lie… plain old dissembling, i.e. a phony, planted story about an unlikely post regarding events of 9/11, made up to jumble the facts. In fact ‘Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth’ is anything but a kook organization. As rational people look into this stuff the more they will doubt the ridiculous “Bush Version” of events: http://www.ae911truth.org/en/home.html
    (its pretty funny to see the conservative media “truth” site AIM caught up in the game)

  • Tommy Radek

    You forgot Burger King Fry Cooks for 9/11 Truth

  • Tommy Radek

    You are full of shit …… you were nowhere near Manhattan on 9/11

  • waitew

    The 3 F16s from Langley were supposed to be chasing 93 Far to the North East of DC as 77 approached the Pentagon from the South West,but 93 had been 41 minutes delayed departing & had not been hijacked yet when the diversion was needed.This forced the conspirators to come up with a different excuse to divert Langley’s F16s North East:Phantom 11. However,NORAD had not yet figured out how to cover for 93 and made the mistake of making numerous & repeated statements about having scrambled Langley because of 93 (2nd public hearing 5/23/03) though 93 had not even been hijacked Yet! NORAD officials repeated the original plan even though things hadn’t gone according to plan,an inadvertent confession:911 was an inside job.

  • waitew

    The Two Otis AFB F15s were suppose to do a patriotic flyover of NYC a few minutes AFTER WTC2 was hit so people would look up & think,”Just missed”. NEADS leadership (Col. Marr) knew EXACTLY where all of the 911 airliners were with the information coming to him from his Superior Gen. Larry Arnold with whom he was in nearly constant communication. The Otis AFB F15s were Scrambled perfectly to arrive over the NYC & WTCs several minutes AFTER Flight 175 hit WTC2 IF the pilots had followed protocol & flew SUBSONIC,which they had every reason to think they would since they were suppose to think their scramble was merely a routine response to the Russian war games that morning (Supersonic flight PROHIBITED). But NORAD’s leadership didn’t know that the pilot (Duffy) had been tipped it was real (a hijacking) by the ATC (Bueno) who had called Otis Tower.
    Once scrambled the pilots flew, “In the air before the radar kicked in”,”full blower all the way from take off”,”I was SUPERSONIC” [Quotes- Pilot Duffy] which meant they would have arrived over NYC BEFORE Flight 175 hit WTC2. NEADS Commander Col. Marr noticed & quickly had them REDIRECTED into a holding pattern over the ocean to WAIT for Flight 175 to hit. They were in that pattern when WTC2 was hit (9:03). The 911 Commission covered it up by moving the dot (location @ 9:03) on the map of the Otis fighter’s flight route from it’s REAL location WITHIN the holding pattern to just before the holding pattern,but now the numbers don’t crunch right.
    Langley’s just too close to DC (6 min by F16) & they needed an excuse to send the F16’s NE farther away from DC to let FL77 hit from the SW. It was suppose to be 93,but it was 40min delayed,so FAA Scoggins made up the Phantom 11 report to cover for the late 93. Col. Marr put up Langley’s Supervisor of Flying Capt. Borgstrum because he would have prevented an SOP scramble & tipped the pilots to FL77 which would have them thinking there were 2 hijacked planes heading towards DC at the same time from opposite directions. That would have sent them straight to DC itself. Gen Arnold repeated original plan to the commission (Langley scrambled for 93)-[2nd public hearing 5/23/03] inadvertently confessing to 911.

  • a witness

    Well done Cliff. While reading your article I could actually smell bullshit. I hope you got paid handsomely, rather than threatened, for such a biased piece of crap. Making ‘truther’ sound like a bad thing is a level of evil I hope you’re proud of. you’re probably looking forward to sucking the devils bush (president bush, get it ?!). Idiot.

  • realist24/7

    Agreed, why even write such a piece, its just a re-hash of the mainstream lies, the person who wrote this piece is obviously in the wrong profession, they most certainly are not a journalist, investigative or any other kind, probably angling for a job in the mainstream BS circus.

  • realist24/7

    Your comment gives you away as either dumb, or a shill, take yer pick.

  • realist24/7

    But it is never the jews, they can do no wrong, it is always, I repeat always the other party who are guilty, over a hundred different nations are all wrong (those countries who in the past have had to expel them due to parasitic tendencies).the common denominator is ignored everytime in favour of propaganda pieces.

  • realist24/7

    Excellent comment, so very true.

  • realist24/7

    Very well said, this person is going from comment to comment, shilling his balls off.

  • realist24/7

    “freedom of speech”, coming from a mainstream media parrot, is hilarious in itself, oh the Irony.

  • realist24/7

    Most Muslims are Semites themselves, are you really that stupid to have not even realised this fact?, your ignorance betrays you.

  • chuck

    So who’s proposing a semitic federation? the mizrahi jews thought they were going to live in their semitic cousins’ lands for a long time. Instead, the Mufti, the MuslimBrotherhood, agents of the british empire and local thugs managed to drive hundreds of thousands of them out.

    Regardless of what you think of the UN’s setting up a Jewish state in 47, the terror unleashed on Mizrahi, culturally comaptible with other urban Semite Arabs from Rabat to Bagdhad, Damscus and Beirut to Yemen, was inexcusable.

    Dont blame Israel for those pogroms(which periodically happened during the centuries the Semitic dhimmi coexisted with their cousins).

    I’m very familiar with Jewish and Arab History, thank you very much.

    The Jews like US black people, have learned they have to determine what is best for them, not the alleged concern of the oppressors.

  • realist24/7

    So you freely admit that you are just stupid then?, and not a media whore?, ok, got it, now you make actual sense to me.

  • M2000

    So it’s okay for you “Truthers” to go and believe another government’s lies from Iran or Russia thinking oh they just give me air time.

  • M2000

    Looking at how you “Truthers” demand people to shut up why are you lecturing about freedom of speech?

  • M2000

    Your entire movement and cause of 9/11 “Truth” makes no sense, going into other sorts of nonsense claiming HARRP is behind earthquakes, ignoring plate tectonics and claim other “Truthers” whom are No Planers are “government moles”.

  • M2000

    If you think a tyrant will be afraid of bloggers, hash tags maybe you should join the Obama administration.

  • M2000

    Yea, Semites except for the non-Semitic ones that convert to their religion opps didn’t catch that.

  • M2000

    And your pal Alex Jones is affiliated with ABC “News”, yet you don’t seem to care about that….

  • M2000

    Blah, blah, blah “Truthers” claim they support freedom of speech just you can’t oppose them.

  • M2000

    I’m not being paid at all, and I’m not affiliated with the government you sicko “Truther” how the heck can you lay claim that you support a smaller government when you behave more like a Maoist does when purging those who disagree with you?

  • M2000

    I thought you crazy “Truthers” claimed Israel was somehow behind the USS Liberty attack….and at the same time you want us to boycott Israel over that when the French continue to support both the Israelis and their Arab counterparts.

    Yet we’re still allies with the French….

  • Sighburbully

    Who said I support a smaller government. I didn’t say that. Your only reason for being here is to harangue truthers. If you can’t be convinced of government complicity in 9/11, then so be it. Go graze with your Sheeple brethren. Your critical thinking skills are nil. Maoist??? That’s not even intelligent.

  • zlop

    From the City of London, Israel is a Rothschild Zionist operation. U$ presidents have to do as commanded, or get eliminated. “According to Admiral Geis, President Johnson, known for his ruthlessness and vile profanity told Geis, “I want that goddamn ship going to the bottom. No help — recall the wings.””

    “USS Liberty White House-sanctioned attack, June 8, 1967 – TERRORSTORM excerpt” uTube

  • M2000

    Quit trying to have it both ways you claim the US was “behind” the USS Liberty and then you claim Israel yet France is a friend of both Israelis and Arabs.

    Never ridiculed them because that’s okay.

  • M2000

    You sound like a Maoist every time you ridicule someone as a “government agent” with no proof. Sounds like the perfect recipe for a purge.

  • zlop

    It was a US-Israel joint operation. Who do you think approved the sinking of USS Liberty? “The Rothschilds & The Two World Wars – YouTube”?

  • Sighburbully

    Ah…Okay dude. Whatever you say.

  • M2000

    Still no criticism of the French Lobby I see only blame Jews, Jews, Jews as if that’d solve everything.

  • M2000

    Your “Truther” movement is an entire circus.

  • zlop

    To be a Rothschild Zionist, one does not have to be a Jew. Anglo-American-Israeli-Saudi Empire pays attention to the French? Not that many false Flag operations in France. Geopolitically, Germany is an important country, doing business with the BRICS.

  • zlop

    There was no failure in intelligence or defenses during 9/11.
    It was a well co-ordinated operation, secret cells from several countries
    accomplished their task. The cover up misled for several years.
    Unlike the Kennedy assassination, we know a lot more,
    but, those who ordered both, are still in charge.
    http://www.abeldanger.net/2014/04/crown-crime-family-of-chicago.html

  • M2000

    “Truthers” like yourself are just fine that the Israelis and the Arabs use French-made weapons, and the Arabs also use Russian-made weapons too. That’s fine to be a dumb little anti-Semite.

  • zlop

    Pro Khazar is being anti Semite?
    Which group manufactured the weapons grade termite, used in the 9/11 demolition?

  • M2000

    Converts to Islam Semitic? Funny you don’t mind peddling your hate here. Go away bigot. “Truthers” like you will never treat another nation like the way you treat Israel.

    Must Germany now abandon the USA as its ally now that it found a double agent? Oh contradictions.

  • zlop

    “”Truthers” like you will never treat another nation like the way you treat Israel” — Not Joe Jew, but Israel, through Mossad, performed a vital part in 9/11.

    Sauds were also in on it, financed the operation and supplied the hijack distraction. Per abeldanger, military drones were modified in Canada, Plot was from London

    Perhaps several thousand had compartmentalized knowledge. High value personnel were warned to stay away, but, did they bother to tell Bush beforehand?

  • Evidence?

  • M2000
  • M2000

    Google Charles Karel Bouley who wanted Joe the Plumber dead, he works for Alex’s buddies at Genesis Communications Network.

  • M2000

    “Truthers” are stupid people will believe any lie that’s against the USA as the “Truth” and ignore facts. They also ignore their boys like Alex Jones, Rand Paul, and his crazy papa wRONg Paul don’t mind supporting legalizing drugs which they said in the 80’s were smuggled in by the CIA.

    Sounds inconsistent doesn’t it? Wouldn’t that just make those who are supposedly part of the New World Order to gain more wealth through taxing the drugs?

  • SirDancelot

    Sure a lot of irrelevant posts here. Sure a lot of name calling from all directions. A lot of irrelevant associations. A lot of unnecessary speculation.

    All we need is to look at the evidence. Building 7 is one good place to start. Let the evidence lead where it may, no matter how deeply it might challenge our world view.

  • Chloe Sage

    Cliff, please explain why the Bush administration fought any investigation into a 911 investigation for over a year? How long did it take repubs to start a Benghazi investigation?

  • chris

    If you would look into some of the claims these folks are making you may be surprised , not to mention some of the people that are raising these questions are highly respected in their given fields. My guess is you didn’t even look objectively. Hell all they are asking for is truth. This type of “journalism” is why the official story was never questioned.

  • sear

    When the people wants the TRUTH, perhaps we should interview the editor of Accurasy in Media” and ask the reasons of WHY they bring on an investigativ journalist like Cliff Kincaid when he clearly have no clue of wha thte hell he is doing, except when he portray his lunacy like he does in this article,

    Senator Max Cleland

    Former 911 commisioner left the 911commission in protest while calling the investigation a national scandal.

    Senator Bob Kerrey

    Former 9.11 commissioner claims that the events on 9.11 was a 30 year old conspirarcy in the working.

    Senator John Farmer Jr.

    Former 911 commissioner claim “that the governemnt made a desicion not to tell the truth about what happend”

    Lee Hamilton

    Former 911 commissioner; claim the investigation was set up to fail, stating that the CIA, and likely the White House “obstructed the investigation”.

    Timothy Roemer

    Former 911 commissioner claim regarding the investigation “we were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting”

    John Lehman

    Former 911 Commissioner stated “We purposely put together a staff that had – in a way – conflicts of interest”.,. Lehman strongly implies that the Commission was purposely set up so that every single person involved would have a conflict of interest which would prevent them from conducting an honest investigation.

    Mike Gravel

    Former senator & prez. cand. Demands a new investigation as he deems the official account into the events of 911 untenable.

    Senator Lincoln Chaffee endorses a new 911 investigation

    Two-time Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul endorse a new investigation.

    General Wesley Clark

    U.S. General, Commanding General of U.S. European Command and Supreme Allied Commander Europe, decorated with the Bronze Star, Silver Star, and Purple Heart. Said “We’ve never finished the investigation of 9/11 and whether the administration actually misused the intelligence information it had. The evidence seems pretty clear to me. I’ve seen that for a long time”

    General Albert Stubblebine

    Chief of Army Intelligence and Security Command/ Reagen, claims’ what happend at Pentagon cant be correct and demands new investigation.

    Coronel George Nelson

    Chief airchrash investigator in US Airforce, claims that the Bush Administration had to have been envolved in the events of 9/11

    Raymond Mcgovern

    27 yrs in CIA, In chief of daily briefing (Reagen&Bush) honored bye 2 presidents, In chief of corresponding all analysis gathered from all US intelligence agencies, is certain of Bush admin. guilt regarding the events of 9/11. and he demands a new investigation.

    William Christison

    Head of CIAs department of regional og political analysis, claims that a part of the Bush administration had to have been involved in the events of 9/11

    Robert Davis Steel

    CIA og US marines intelligence, claims that the events of 9.11 was never properly investigated.

    Morton Goulder

    Former Deputy Secretary for Intelligence & Warning under Nixon, Ford, and Carter calls for a new investigation into the events of 9/11

    Edward L. Peck

    Former former Deputy Director to the White House Task Force on Terrorism calls for a new investigation into the events of 9/11

    J. Michael Springmann

    Former US Department of State Foreign Service Officer calls for a new investigation into the events of 9/11

    Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

    Chief of finances w/Center for Strategic and International studies & publisher of Wall Street Journal, says that the official versione of 9/11 is scientificly impossible

    Dr. Robert Bowman

    Coronel lieutenant USAirforce, Chief of the prez. starwars program (Ford & Carter) and the proud owner of the military’s highest award, claims that Bush administration was involved and that the conclusions of 911 commision is politicaly motivated.

    Lynn Margulis

    Ph.D, World renowned scientist, ., severely criticizes the official account of 9/11 and calles for a new investigation, “I suggest that those of us aware and concerned demand that the glaringly erroneous official account of 9/11 be dismissed as a fraud and a new, thorough, and impartial investigation be undertaken.”..

    Ferdinando Imposimato

    He is the honorary President of the Supreme Court of Italy, and former Senior Investigative Judge. Says that 9/11 was “False Flag” Terror.

    Morgan O. Reynolds

    Chief economist for the United States Department of Labor during 2001-2002 during George W. Bush’s first term. A professor emeritus at Texas A&M University and former director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis headquartered in Dallas, TX. In 2005, he gained public attention as the first prominent government official to publicly claim that 9/11 was an inside job, and is a member of Scholars for 9/11 Truth.

    Stanley Hilton

    The former chief of staff to Senator Bob dole, a very successful counselor, lawyer. He represents hundreds of the victims families of 9/11. He is suing Bush for involvement in 9/11. Claiming;

  • Scowlface

    Full of bull for failing to support an independent investigation. People don’t “make up” anomalies for the sake of it or fun. You can shut the “truthers” up by giving those families the independent investigation they want. And then let the facts speak for themselves. Jet fuel causes molten metal? Wow, I didn’t know that, but let’s prove that it does or doesn’t. Investigate everything and let’s see just how far the rabbit hole we actually go…

  • carter lee

    Hey Cliff, Great news. No need to pretend you studied, the movie just came out… I’m sure you’re quite familiar with “CliffsNotes” ha ha (http://www.c-span.org/video/?320748-5/washington-journal-architects-engineers-911-truth) By the way, have you gotten your chip yet?

  • Albury Smith

    Burning jet fuel can certainly melt lead and aluminum, as can debris fires that burn for ~99 days. Since the melting of steel is not part of any NIST collapse hypothesis and the weakening of steel is, and demolition explosives don’t produce any molten metal at all, the many reports of it at GZ weeks after 9/11 are only C/D evidence to someone trying to fit the square peg into a round hole. Incendiaries stop producing heat in 3 to 5 minutes and then cool rapidly, so the molten metal in the debris fires is a non-starter.

  • Albury Smith

    Who else resigned from the 9/11 Commission besides Max Cleland? All of the others you mentioned are signatories to the final 9/11 Commission Report, and no objections to the investigation, including Cleland’s, involved any 9/11 “truth movement” absurdities. The main issues were discrepancies in NORAD’s timeline and disputes over the problem of releasing sensitive intelligence and sources, and how much of Bush and Cheney’s incompetence and negligence to expose.
    As the quotes you provided show, there was and still is a lot of second-guessing US intelligence for not figuring out the al Qaeda suicide plot in time to prevent it. Since few of the 19 hijackers were even known to the CIA and other agencies before 9/11, the type of attack was unprecedented, and preventing it would’ve required the same TSA screenings that aren’t popular now, the criticism’s only armchair quarterbacking with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

  • Albury Smith

    GeeDubya & Deadeye are politicians, and getting caught asleep at the wheel by the al Qaeda suicide attacks of 9/11 didn’t put them in a very good light.

  • Albury Smith

    You actually can oppose 9/11 troofers, but your comments will very quickly be removed and you’ll immediately be banned if they’re in charge of the “forum” where you try to do it. Facts and the 9/11 “truth movement” are polar opposites.

  • Albury Smith

    NORAD’s 2 armed F15s on standby at Otis AFB were wheels up at nearly the exact instant that Atta crashed AA 11 into the North Tower, and no one even knew for sure that the crash was a terrorist attack. Otis is ~153 miles from the WTC, and UA 175 hit the South Tower ~15 minutes later. You apparently expect the pilots to make it to the NYC area in that time, find UA 175 in that brief period, and decide in seconds to blow it out of the sky over a very heavily-populated area.
    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but things just don’t work that way in the real world, and NORAD was not part of the al Qaeda suicide plot.

  • Albury Smith
  • Albury Smith

    If the 9/11 “truth movement” were at all interested in physics, it wouldn’t exist.

  • Albury Smith

    Are al Qaeda suicide attacks a joke to you?

  • Albury Smith

    Humam Khalil Abu-Mulal al-Balawi sort of worked for this “Al-CIA-duh” you invented too:
    http://www.npr.org/2011/07/19/138158669/the-al-qaida-triple-agent-who-infiltrated-the-cia
    He murdered 7 CIA bin Laden trackers and 2 others in a suicide attack inside Camp Chapman on December 30, 2009. Their job was to find bin Laden so the US military could capture or kill your alleged “Al-CIA-duh” employee.
    Do you have some cute stories about Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and his ISIL savages too?

  • Albury Smith

    For reporting the truth?

  • Albury Smith

    The most sophisticated military-defense-intelligence-security-law enforcement network ever assembled in human history (by far) wasn’t set up to defend the US from its own airliners, and since the ringleader of the suicide terrorists wasn’t one of the actual 19 hijackers, his whereabouts on 9/11/01 are entirely irrelevant.
    “Elvis’ two-headed alien sister-in-law’s sex scandal” and 9/11 truther nuttiness have much in common.

  • Albury Smith

    What “weapons-grade termite [sic]”? Is your magical imaginary stuff an incendiary today or a high explosive?

  • Albury Smith

    Hey Carter, great news. There’s a very easy and effective way to get out the message:
    We all need to ask Richard Gage* and his “experts” to show us on video with audio how explosives or incendiaries secretly cut the 4.91″ flanges,? 3.07″ webs, and? 215 sq in cross sections of W14 X 730 columns like the 11 of 24 in WTC 7’s core, and the 4 corner columns in each tower’s core:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c2o8k4n9CY
    http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/images/8-fig04.png
    If they ever HAD TO do it, this “debate” would be OVER.
    *Gage’s ONLY 9/11 “research”:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFVi4qbN2jM

  • zlop

    Good point. For melting steel, to weaken the structure, slow acting thermite. For timing the collapse, other than explosive thermite, could have been used.

  • M2000

    “Truthers” don’t support freedom of speech….

  • Albury Smith

    When has al Qaeda questioned the official story?

  • Albury Smith

    The Langley F16s initially went east around DC air traffic and then north to NYC to aid the two Otis F15s in combat air patrol where the first two attacks had already occurred, and were unable to get back in time to intercept AA 77 before Hanjour crashed it into the Pentagon. It’s possible that they might have intercepted UA 93, and by then they did have an executive shoot-down order. The premature crash in Shanksville, PA thanks to a ~45-minute delay at Newark very likely saved many lives in the DC area, either from al Qaeda’s planned crash into either the White House or Capitol Hill or from 757 wreckage hitting people on the ground.
    NORAD wasn’t in on al Qaeda’s Planes Operation, and tried desperately to stop it.

  • BestIntentions

    “Not one phone, not one desk” left in the rubble of the biggest office space in the world. Where did it all go? What happened to the spire on the North Tower? Shouldn’t it be on top of the debris? Why is the debris field shorter than the ambulance which was parked outside (and not crushed by anything). Albury, kerosene doesn’t turn buildings to dust. Seriously. https://archive.org/details/911DebrisAnInvestigationOfGroundZero Oh wait, I forgot, it all “simply fell down into the ground and was pulverized, evaporated.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-jujgEyCjQ Tell me, Albury, how does jet fuel turn a W14 X 730 column into dust?

  • Albury Smith

    What’s “really” supposed to happen when ~500,000-TON buildings collapse from more than 1/4 mile up? Do explosive demolitions now pulverize contents instead of just cutting some columns? Are the FDNY who reported the incredible destruction they saw 9/11 truther nuts?
    Tell the Local 40 & 361 NYC ironworkers that the steel they handled, including all of those massive W14 X 730 columns, was merely dust.
    Jeezus; what lunacy…

  • BestIntentions

    Who said anything about explosive demolition? To me the directed energy and micro nuke http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=4958 hypotheses are much more credible than nanothermite. But it still begs the question: if nanothermite couldn’t do it, then why would jet fuel and gravity? Also, what about the exploding cars? And why did they bring IN truckloads of dirt immediately after the attack? And if you actually watched the video on archive.org you would hear the FDNY “troofer” nuts in their own words wondering where all the rubble went. Of all the effort you put into your literally thousands of posts on 9/11, why not write a scientific paper? Or maybe you aren’t qualified….

  • BestIntentions

    “incredible destruction” in the most literal sense… as in, not credible.

  • Albury Smith

    “…the directed energy and micro nuke [blah, blah, blah…”
    Good bye.

  • BestIntentions

    Go ahead and debunk it based on empirical evidence. I am here for the truth, not to be right. If you can prove me wrong, go for it. But all I see from you is name-calling and thousands of repetitions of the same immature posts.

  • Albury Smith

    “Go ahead and” get one of these:
    http://zapatopi.net/afdb/
    They’ll defend you against those dastardly directed energy micro nukes sent out by the evil US gubmint (or whatever).

  • BestIntentions

    Go ahead and tell me where the radioactive elements in the dust came from http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0050-02/fs-050-02_508.pdf , because all construction workers who spend all their time on the internet calling people names and trying to paint people as stupid are perfectly qualified to consider such evidence. If you were actually trying to convince somebody that our government is completely honest and not just trying to devolve conversations into childish argument, then you would lay out some actual evidence and not just repeat “box boy box boy troofer troofer nanny nanny boo boo.” It does more harm to your cause than good.

  • BestIntentions

    And honestly Albury, the reason I chose the name I have is because I genuinely want the truth and what’s best for our country and planet. I would LOVE to be wrong on this assessment and believe that it was some guy in a cave in Afghanistan who directed all this (even though the FBI admitted they had no evidence linking Osama to the plot http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13664.htm ). I would much prefer being wrong to living under fascist rule, but the evidence against NIST and the 9/11 commission report is so striking that I, as a rational and educated human being, simply cannot take their word for it. I’m being serious when I say that if you would like to have a private conversation (and keep it civil, don’t call me stupid because I have competing hypotheses which are necessary to the scientific method – unless you have a Ph.D, I have more education than you do), yet I will give you my open ears and will listen to everything you have to present, as long as it’s not simply repeating the 9/11 commission report, NIST, or Popular Mechanics. For it to be equal, though, you must ACTUALLY consider alternative hypotheses and rule them out based on evidence, not by saying “well that just couldn’t happen, stupidhead boxboy.”

  • Albury Smith

    If you were actually trying to convince somebody that 9/11 truther nuts are honest and not just trying to devolve conversations into childish argument, then you would lay out some actual evidence and not just regurgitate some technical usgs.GOV(aren’t they your imaginary perps?) data that you don’t understand. It might harm your cause if you ever had one.
    “Go ahead and” tell ME where you think the radioactive elements in the dust came from.

  • BestIntentions

    Would you like a copy of my diplomas, dissertation, or thesis? The analysis of the dust IS actual evidence… so are pyroclastic clouds, material-specific disintegration, lack of debris, and the types of cancer common among survivors and first responders. I’m not an architect or engineer, but I am a chemist, and my view is that nearly all investigators and reporters did their best to report honestly, but no one considered any possibility of any competing hypothesis after we were told “what happened.” Like you (and like me for over ten years!), they just can’t fit the possibility of anything besides the official story in their paradigm long enough to consider the evidence. We were all traumatized to the extent that it shut off our critical thinking skills and made us focus on our emotions and vengeance. I don’t pretend to know what exactly happened, but something is very wrong with what we are told. I don’t know if it was some type of device inside the building or on a plane, possibly the W54 cited by the Russians, but gravity and fire simply don’t provide the energy required to knock neutrons off atoms or create pyroclastic clouds visible from space. Directed energy and nuclear weapons DO exist outside of science fiction, even if we all wish they didn’t. https://www.osti.gov/opennet/forms.jsp?formurl=document/rdd-1/drwcrtf4.html And for what it’s worth, I don’t consider it an “inside job,” I do think that it was mostly a foreign attack, possibly even by extremist Muslims, but that some other energy was required to have the results that we see on video footage. From me to you, Albury, I apologize for being so argumentative with you. You are my fellow human and therefore I love you and I wish we wouldn’t argue in such a non-constructive way, but these comment sections seem to be the only place we are allowed to have this discourse, so I appreciate that we have the freedom to have this conversation openly. I am realizing that the debate seems to tend towards attacking each other rather than intellectually analyzing the event in a calm and open manner, and I see that you aren’t taking me seriously in the slightest, so I will choose at this point to let you continue about your business as usual. But I do hope you understand that I am hoping for healing and peace between people, including you and me, and not trying to pick fights. Best of luck, and honestly, I hope time will prove me wrong and you correct.

  • Albury Smith

    If you’re a chemist, please explain why you think the room-temperature WTC dust clouds were PYROclastic, and how any controlled demolition technique on a steel-framed building would cause this phenomenon to occur. Was anyone incinerated while fleeing these allegedly radioactive and pyroclastic clouds? In real C/Ds, the dust is not pyroclastic and is produced by the collapses themselves, not by the cutter charges that cause the collapses.

  • Albury Smith

    When did the FBI admit they have no evidence against the guy who bragged about his al Qaeda SUICIDE attacks of 9/11/01 and threatened the US infidels with even “more Manhattans” if they didn’t leave all Muslim lands immediately, pray tell? Apparently the FBI’s Dale Watson didn’t get the memo:
    http://www.fbi.gov/news/testimony/the-terrorist-threat-confronting-the-united-states
    The evil US went to war in Afghanistan exactly because of Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda buddies, so is our government so incredibly stupid that they’d publicly admit they had no reason for doing it? Every other government, intelligence agency, and legitimate media source IN THE WORLD must be really stupid too.
    Could you possibly have confused the fact that the 9/11 charge wasn’t added to the FBI’s Most Wanted List that only cited al Qaeda’s 1998 SUICIDE bombings of the US embassies in Nairobi & Dar es Salaam? Al Qaeda’s 2000 SUICIDE bombing of the USS Cole wasn’t included either, and the reason’s obviously not because of lack of evidence for either one.

  • Albury Smith

    Welcome to the wonderful world of enormous KE when ~500,000-TONS collapses from more than 1/4 mile up, Mr. Chemist.

  • Poop

    Cliff is writing butthurt garbage. This is what “accuracy” looks like?

  • Albury Smith

    Cliff’s not the topic here; he simply exposed 9/11 truther nuts for what they are. You’d very quickly be cured if your profiteering crackpots ever HAD TO demonstrate their secret C/D nonsense on a typical W14 X 730 WTC core column as I suggested below.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c2o8k4n9CY
    http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/images/8-fig04.png
    Two 4.91″ flanges and a 3.07″ web would shut Richard “Box Boy” Gage up in a hurry.

  • Albury Smith

    Shouldn’t Richard “Box Boy” Gage and his “more than 2100 [9/11 crackpots]” have already begun this independent investigation instead of simply whining about it? NIST wouldn’t hire any of them, but who better than they since they’re so much better qualified and independent than the ~65% CIVILIAN NIST WTC investigation teams? This is the extent of their 9/11 investigating so far:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFVi4qbN2jM
    Gee; I wonder why his own(?) AIA wants nothing to do with him. The RIBA, ASCE, SEI, NCSEA, SEAoNY, Journal of Engineering Mechanics, ENR, structuremag.org, etc. don’t either.
    Puzzling, innit?

  • umbrarchist

    Why don’t you just say, “Shut up and think what you are told!”?

    When has the motion of the tilted top portion of the south tower been explained. Where was the center of mass? How could that happen 50 minutes after impact long after the oscillation stopped?

    How did you find something I posted after no comment for two months? I had to scroll pretty far down to find it. Following me around are you? Have fun!

  • Albury Smith

    Watch video of it and you’ll see that the tilt to the SE of the top part of the SE corner is mirrored by nearly the same push to the NW of the NW base of that block of ~29 floors, so the lateral displacement of the c.g. was practically nil. Your imaginary explosives or whatever it is today did not secretly cut the NW corner columns to produce this result; the sudden shift of the ~125,000-TON weight to those columns ended their use as a fulcrum.
    No one should “”Shut up and think what you are told!” but it would help a little if 9/11 truther nuts simply thought once in a while. 236 of the 283 columns in each WTC tower were IN PLAIN SIGHT from both inside and out. Hello?

  • umbrarchist

    ROFLMAO

    But that is the most hilarious thing about it. How wide were the columns at the 81st floor? How could the bottom of the tilted top portion shift more than 20 feet horizontally without SHEARING ALL OF THE COLUMNS. So how could fire and gravity make the entire top ROTATE like YOU SAY.

    So the motion needs to be analysed in detail and the center of mass and center of rotation need to be determined. I say that what you just said is proof that impact damage and fire could not do it.

  • Albury Smith

    UA 175 hit off center on the south wall of the South Tower at a ~100 mph higher velocity than AA 11. UA 175 was heading NE and the South Tower’s rectangular core was oriented N to S, so the longer row of core columns on the east side was directly in its path, resulting in 11 estimated South Tower core columns cut vs 6 in the North Tower whose identical rectangular core was oriented E to W. The ~50% added KE from the add’l ~100 mph (velocity’s squared to calculate KEs) also resulted in more damage, and the ~15 more floors above impact than in the North Tower caused it to collapse in ~56 minutes vs. ~102 for the North Tower. It tilted SE and nearly collapsed at impact, staying tilted for that ~56 minutes before going down because of the fires on the east and north sides where the plane pushed most of the combustibles.
    Unlike the North Tower, the South Tower had less symmetrical damage and the top initially rotated before falling and crushing the rest of the floors. It also took less time — 15+ seconds vs 22+ seconds — to collapse.
    This is all “ROFLMAO” funny to morons, but not to SEs and other reasonably intelligent people who are truly interested in why the WTC collapses occurred. The entire collapse has been analyzed by many people, all of whom are a lot smarter than you and your fellow 9/11 troofers are.

  • umbrarchist

    Oh yes, make up some drivel that explains nothing. The plane hit the south tower lower than the north tower so the steel had to support more weight. But in 13 years the people saying the collapse made sense haven’t been saying we need to know the tons of steel and tons of concrete on every level.

    But if this impact was so great why did the building only deflect 15 inches at the 81st floor. Since it was designed to deflect 36 inches at the top in a 150 mph wind it should have been able to deflect 26 inches at the 81st so the plane’s impact did not push the building to its design limit.

    But the fact of the matter is that you still have not explained how all of the columns could shear horizontally due to fire and gravity. The NIST says the top tilted 20 to 25 degrees. That would cause a 130 foot horizontal differential between the top and the bottom. The bottom only moved 20 to 30 feet so the location of the center of mass is still an issue.

    But after 13 years the scientific farce of 9/11 is a bigger issue than 911. In 1940 they could build a test model of a bridge in FOUR MONTHS. And it was 54 feet long and in a wind tunnel.

    So name calling is all you’ve got. I am SO hurt. LOL

  • Albury Smith

    You’ve mastered sophistry, not science. 150 mph wind loads don’t sever or damage ~4 dozen columns and cause a steel-framed hi-rise to bend sharply before massive fires bow the lightweight steel bar joists and pull in more perimeter columns. Your imaginary explosives don’t do that either, nor do they explode without scattering the dense clouds of smoke laterally at supersonic speed BEFORE the top starts to tilt and fall. 236 of the 283 columns in each WTC tower were IN PLAIN SIGHT, making your secret C/D “theory” even more asinine.
    Read NCSTAR 1 or just keep listening to profiteering 9/11 crackpots who are ignored by their own(?) AIA. Here are some of the many relevant professional organizations and publications that have shunned Richard Gage, and a ~$314.5 million lawsuit over WTC 7’s collapse that doesn’t even mention him:
    http://www.architectmagazine.com/architecture/architects-shy-from-truther-conspiracy-theory.aspx
    http://www.bdonline.co.uk/11-talk/5020382.article
    http://www.leagle.com/decision/In%20FCO%2020131204097
    The ASCE, NCSEA, SEI, SEAoNY, Journal of Engineering Mechanics, structuremag.org, ENR, etc. want nothing to do with Gage either, nor does the Uniformed Firefighters Association IAFF Local 94, or the Ironworker Locals 40 & 361.

    Why is that?

  • Albury Smith

    Why are facts always “drivel that explains nothing” to 9/11 truther nuts, pray tell?

  • umbrarchist

    Anyone can read your post and see what kind of “Facts” you present. Why haven’t you or anybody else built a physical model that can completely collapse due to the drop of the top 15% by height and less than that by weight?

    Why don’t we all have the facts on the distributions of steel and concrete down the towers? What is so difficult about that? It would just be a table of 348 numbers, the level, the tons of steel and the tons of concrete. Three measly columns. Wouldn’t that fit in the NIST’s 10,000 pages?

  • umbrarchist

    Point to where I said something about explosives. I am simple saying airliner impacts and fires could not destroy the building. You said the bottom of the tilted top portion of the south tower moved as much as the top but in the opposite direction.

    Didn’t all of the columns have to shear for that to happen? So you explain what you said.

    The sine of 22 degrees would indicate a 130 foot horizontal difference between the top and the bottom. But the bottom only moved 20 to 30 feet. So the location of the center of mass is still relevant due to the core being only 85 feet wide in one direction. So a 44 foot horizontal movement of the center of mass could take it beyond the edge of the core which the NIST said supported 54% of the weight.

    Are those enough facts for you. How many have you supplied?

  • Albury Smith

    REAL controlled demolitions do that all the time. The height in the air and % of stories in motion don’t change the KE hitting the intact stories below and transmitting upward; 29 stories are still 29 stories, and they all get crushed in REAL C/Ds either with or without explosives (which are not on every column on every floor).
    Why don’t YOU have the facts on the distributions of steel and concrete down the towers since you’re so obsessed with trivia? What is so difficult about doing a simple materials takeoff? You CAN read structurals and do simple arithmetic, can’t you?
    Your secret C/D “theory” is asinine.

  • Albury Smith

    Are you in high school or something? Since the bottom of the NW corner moved NW, there was not a net lateral displacement of the c.g. of > 20′ NE (the c.g. was >1/2 way down the ~360′ upper block), and a 208′ square building is ~295′ diagonally.
    Please save yourself more trouble and embarrassment and just ask Box Boy* and his “more than 2100 [9/11 crackpots]” to show you on video with audio how explosives or incendiaries secretly cut the 4.91″ flanges,? 3.07″ webs, and? 215 sq in cross sections of W14 X 730 columns like the 11 of 24 in WTC 7’s core, and the 4 corner columns in each tower’s core:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c2o8k4n9CY
    http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/images/8-fig04.png
    If they ever HAD TO do it, this “debate” would be OVER.
    *Box Boy’s ONLY 9/11 “research”:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFVi4qbN2jM

    (If your imaginary evildoers used secret space beams, nukes, or whatever, please don’t even bother responding.)

  • umbrarchist

    {{{ (the c.g. was >1/2 way down the ~360′ upper block) }}}

    How do you know that? What is your evidence? What were the tons of steel and tons of concrete on every level?

    You just make pronouncements and claim they are facts. It is obvious from the videos that the top move more horizontally than the bottom. So even if the center of gravity was in the geometric center as you say it would still move horizontally.

    But you haven’t explained what could shear all of the columns as you say and we see had to happen. You have insults without explanations.

  • umbrarchist

    How skyscrapers MUST BE DESIGNED TO HOLD THEMSELVES UP is trivia? LOL Confusion must be maintained to keep this trivial problem from being solved. That should have been discussed within weeks of 9/11.

    The objective of KNOWN CDs is to minimize collateral damage. But CONTROLLED means it does what the people in control want. So if the controllers don’t care about or want to maximize collateral damage then the objective of the control is different.

  • Albury Smith

    You’re baffled by the simplest things. I know that the c.g. was below the vertical halfway point of the upper block because hi-rise structures get lighter in weight as they go higher, and what the tons of steel and tons of concrete were on every level is tons of steel and tons of concrete on every level.
    Take your simply HS trig and solve sin 22=x/150, not sin 22=x/360 and you’ll come up with a (wrong) lateral displacement that’s much less than your 130′, but still doesn’t account for the fact that the bottom of the NW corner moved NW during the rotational motion.
    If there was any column shearing involved anywhere in the initial portion of the collapse, it was caused by the ~125,000 TONS of upper block colliding from a story height or more with the intact floors below.

  • Albury Smith

    Steel-framed hi-rises are not designed to lose ~18% of their column support in an airliner crash, withstand massive fires started instantly by flaming jet fuel over tens of thousands of square feet, and then resist the resultant dynamic loads that occur when the inevitable finally happens. Look up the howstuffworks.com explanation of controlled demolition; many stories collapse solely or almost solely from GRAVITY, not cutter charges.

  • umbrarchist

    Just because they are not designed to lose it does not mean they will collapse because the do lose it. You are making a bit of a leap there. But that doesn’t explain why after 13 YEARS we don’t have a physical or virtual model that accounts for it in adequate detail.

    You can’t even specify on the basis of any valid information where the center of mass of the tilted top portion of the south tower was. You can just ASSUME that it was at the geometric center. Very Scientific!

  • umbrarchist

    You said the upper block was 360 ft. The NIST says it tilted 20 to 25 degrees. The sin of 22 is 0.3746. That times 360 comes to 134.86 feet.

    The bottom did not move 67 feet horizontally therefore the center of gravity moved no matter where it was.

  • Albury Smith

    It could easily be calculated if someone wanted to waste enough time doing it. Some assumptions would obviously have to be made, but column, beam, and joist sizes and weights per foot, slab thicknesses, live loads, etc. are no big secret, nor is arithmetic and simple math to most of us.
    Because of the huge number of variables, entire WTC tower collapses are impossible to model, but the NCSTAR 1 FEA and calcs for the collapse initiation are sufficient for SEs, even if not for 9/11 truther nuts, who don’t have the education or knowledge to understand forensic structural engineering reports anyway.
    Ask Box Boy and his 9/11 crackpots to do this modeling for you instead of just dropping empty cardboard boxes on each other.

  • Albury Smith

    Wow, I’m impressed; right to the nearest .01′ no less, despite an estimated angle and height, and ignoring the fact that the c.g. was only ~150′ above the impact level of UA 175. Why don’t you go back to figuring out the total weight of concrete and steel in the South Tower?
    Good grief…

  • Albury Smith

    If you’re suggesting that the upper block should’ve kept rotating after the fulcrum at the NW corner collapsed, please take a physics course.

  • Albury Smith

    Unless it’s their own, and then they still whine that they’re being silenced by their imaginary 9/11 evildoers. 9/11 truther nuts are just adorable. 🙂

  • Albury Smith

    This will deeply challenge your sketchy to nonexistent knowledge of top-notch forensic structural engineering investigations into building collapses:
    http://www.nist.gov/customcf/get_pdf.cfm?pub_id=861610

  • umbrarchist

    Where has there been a scientific analysis of the motion of the top block to determine where the center of rotation was? Got a link?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdtmQXQJcMw

    But you are such a great one with THE FACTS!

  • umbrarchist

    [[[ Wow, I’m impressed; right to the nearest .01′ no less, despite only an
    estimated angle and height, and ignoring the fact that the c.g. was only
    ~150′ above the impact level of UA 175. ]]]

    More of your so called facts? How do you KNOW where the CG was if you don’t know the steel and concrete distributions? There were mechanical floors at the top. Wouldn’t that tend raise the CG? With 50 skyscrapers over 1000 feet tall completed since 9/11 why is this difficult to get accurate information about?

  • umbrarchist

    With the Empire State Building designed without computers 80+ years ago and the improvements in computers since 9/11 we are supposed to believe significant assumptions must be made. The 9/11 Affair is such an idiotic joke with people pretending the problem is difficult.

  • Albury Smith

    LOOK at the South Tower collapse videos! Your own video shows it! Duh…

  • Albury Smith

    The ESB was conventionally-framed and wasn’t hit at ~440 or ~540 mph by a ~140-TON airliner carrying ~9500 gallons of fuel. B-25s weigh roughly 1/10 that much and the one that crashed ACCIDENTALLY into the ESB was going 200 mph tops, with ~200 gallons of fuel aboard.
    Apples and oranges.

  • Albury Smith

    You really need to take a basic HS physics course. Stand up a 12′ 2 X 4 board in your hand, allow it to tilt ~25 degrees, and then quickly pull your hand out from under it and see what happens to the rotational motion when acted on only by gravity. It’s not rocket science.

  • Al Bondiga

    Ur a joke buddy.

  • theinvisiblewun .

    blind man writes article on planes flying into buildings :

  • theinvisiblewun .

    Hemp was grown by George Washington- it was mandatory to be grown by farmers – it was legal tender – there was no cancer – no asthma – wars were fought over it – cutting down trees was not permitted as hemp made the best paper – the USA Constitution is written on hemp paper. Maybe you should do some “REAL” research.

  • theinvisiblewun .

    you want answers? Just stop asking questions and I’ll give you answers ! Does your church minister ask you for questions – Have faith – you get the answers without asking – now be a good little slave & go and watch TV.

  • theinvisiblewun .

    and at the very top it says “Accuracy in Media” – Isn’t that what Hitler gave the German people while spreading hatred –
    Maybe Cliff he has a PHD (permanent head damage) – coz the media are hog tied and set to limits by those who own the bloody media.

  • Verity2

    HUH!!! What rock did you just crawl out from under Cliff ?

  • johnbambey

    Anatomy of a smear artist (1) always try to associate people who question the official version of a event with nagative emotive words such as kook right wing left wing conspiracy theorist or whatever (2) Dodge a substantive discussion on specific details especially technical ones, (3) never present the testimoney of any witnesses or investigators opposing your position (4) use emotive appeals to patriotism and associate critics with the nations enemies.

    congratulations Cliff you did all that in the name of ” accuracy in the media”
    I hereby nominate you for the Hypocrite of the year award

  • CraigMReed

    The criminal anti-whites have a genocide law obligation to allow white people to survive as a group.

    Instead they force GENOCIDAL mass immigration and “assimilation” on Every white country and ONLY white countries. Chasing down the last white person.

    Anti-racist is a code word for Anti-white.

  • True Patriot

    What a tool! 911 was an inside job Clifford! Answer me this

    I would rather be a Truther than a Liar!

    The Top 25 questions and issues I have with the Official 911 Report / Conspiracy Theory and why I think there were “No Planes”:

    1) There were no “wake vortex” in the special effects fireworks display.

    Just as a car leaves “tire tracks” in mud, planes leave “wing tracks” in the air, these are called a wake vortex. Why do they not exist in the fireballs, they would have been “massive” and “swirling” for several minutes seeing as the plane was moving at 500+ MPH (impossible for these planes to accomplish at this altitude)

    2) The engines could not travel that fast, it is a fact that the air is 6X thicker at 1000 feet above sea level than 30,000 feet; 500+ MPH would have been impossible to achieve.

    3) The phone calls could not have come from cell phones on the planes yet they exist suggesting a cover up. I have been in IT, including video graphics editing and IVR (interactive voice response) technology. This technology did not exist at that time I know this for a fact!

    4) The aluminum fuselage is designed like a giant aluminum can and would have crushed like a giant aluminum can. The brittle aluminum wings and fuselage cannot cut through the ductile steel columns and concrete floors. The plane would shattered and bounced off the building.

    5) I have seen numerous edited videos, there is one out there that you can see the left wing “disappear” behind a building in the background, in another, the nose poke through the other side of the building because the “green screen” shift affect from filming the tower from a moving chopper, the graphics editor missed this flaw in his hast to get the videos into “production” for the false narrative they needed to sell to the masses, leaving the intelligent the daunting task of informing the nation “one by one” as the MSM is corrupt as well (look at Sandy Hoax for example) .

    6) The wings and tail section did not “break off” and cannot be seen falling to the ground, this is because there were no wings or tail section,. it is video fakery just like in 1076 when I saw King Kong climb the buildings, or was there really a King Kong?

    7) There were no hardened black box recorders recovered, however a paper passport was found implicating a hijacker suggesting a false flag cover up.

    8) The tensile strength of aluminum and lightweight materials of an aircraft is inferior to that of steel columns and concrete floors, the plane would have hit the building and bounced off in pieces, the thickness of the aluminum of the plane is thin relative to the massive steel “box column” matrix. Have you seen what a bird will do to a plane? It gets fucked up.Have you seen what a bird will do when it fly’s into a building? The bird gets fucked up.

    9) You can see thermite pouring out the sides of the tower, cut columns at the base of the towers and the last core columns that fell, standing vertically before being cut, by what to me appears to be “delayed shape charges”. (note: I could see the conspirators even having additional shape charges used towards the base and in other key areas to insure a full collapse in case the primary detonators failed. After all they needed to get rid of the evidence and build Chevys out of it in China.

    10) The building was designed to withstand multiple “impacts” of planes but we are to believe that 2 planes brought down 3 buildings?

    11) The “fireball” would have consumed “all the fuel” in the aircraft, what was left to burn?

    Did only part of fuel tanks ignite? on both planes, separately?

    12) If the “magic inferno” melted and/or weakened steel, why did it not “cook” flesh and bone on the same floor”? (Oven Test Experiment = Stick head in oven at 600F for 45 minutes, are you still alive, if so, move on to next question?)

    14) If the fires were 80+/- floors up, with 30+/- floors above it, so how did the “magic inferno” inferno survive “crashing through the 70+ floors below it, ending up in the basement (still an inferno) under the rubble, would the “inferno” not be extinguished, crushed, or at least on top of the pile”?

    15) The temperature readings in the area 1 month after 911 were 1300F, What

    was the “fuel” for these “magic infernos”, Where did it come from, was it another modern day miracle interpretation of a burning bush?

    16) How were bone fragments found hundreds of feet away on rooftops if everything was crushed downward and not blown up and outwards?

    17) Why were numerous secondary explosions reported and not investigated? Where did they come from, were they overheated soda cans? Oh shit better not give you fools more “debunk funk” ammunition, so scratch that soda can comment.

    18) Why was the smoke so dark, so thick, and slow moving, if there were raging “magic infernos” of 1800+ degrees that was causing them?

    19) If there were 1800F fires on the those floors why did the “magic infernos” not race towards the top of the building and bur the crap out of it, pouring out the sides, as it is a fact that “heat rises” and this was significant heat?

    20) Why did the buildings collapse at near freefall speed? Did the building just get tired of being a buildings and decide to fall down, take an all expense paid vacation to china to be turned into an appliance or something?

    21) You can see squibs shooting out the sides, if it was “air pressure” that blew out the windows, where is the “magic inferno” flames and fireballs shooting out the sides of the building, rather than “blown up concrete and building materials” out of the actual structure?

    22) How did the pilots steer the planes at 600 MP into the towers? Imagine for a moment taking an off ramp at 100 MPH, good luck with that?

    23) How did the planes not break up when pulling out of the rapid descent to

    1000 ft?

    24) How and why did our military fail to intercept them, was it a coffee break? was there a god movie on tv? let me guess they were having an orgy with hookers they hired from the missing 2.3 “TRILLION” dollars from the DOD budget, is why they are keeping it so quiet.

    25) Why did the firefighter report that there were isolated pockets of fire on 78 and he only needed 2 lines? (on the crappy radios Giuliani failed to replace which killed additional first responder’s prior to his illegal removal of evidence from a crime scene investigation, fire investigation and airline disaster investigation)

    This was an inside job orchestrated by the Federal Reserve Organized Crime Syndicate, the men behind the curtain of the puppets and actors employed to deceive within US Government through the Media.

  • robbes

    There is certainly nothing wrong with asking questions and demanding an explanation for why the government failed to uphold its end of the social contract and protect its citizens from a foreign attack. Early on, after 9/11, it was individuals from the truth movement who gathered pertinent information through foia requests and dogged research which did shed light on the events that day. In contrast Bush administration folks were insultingly reserved about giving some closure to families of victims and to the nation. Over the years, the Truth Movement has challenged people to become more informed and look beyond the trite platitudes bandied about by Bush and dutifully parroted by mainstream media by way of offering an explanation. But now the questions have become stubborn rants. It seems like the questions were in actuallity camouflaged accusations that are so obviously self evident that they demand accordance by anyone who is listening. The word must be spread – by any means necessary – so that the epiphany will awaken the toiling masses (as well as the indebted bourgeoisie) to overthrow the New World Order and everyone can be free to work on collective farms. And the legions of physicists and structural engineers who wholeheartedly support the truther claims? Turns out there aren’t very many. In fact the number is so small that they are insignificant. Ah, but wasn’t Einstein a maverick among his peers? If relativity were as easy to refute, he would have remained a clerk.

  • umbrarchist

    No mention of the word “physics”.

    It is so curious that the nation that put men on the Moon can’t provide a physical or virtual model explaing how the top 15% of a skyscraper can fall straight down and destroy the intact portion below. Duh, what is Potential Energy?

  • john R

    Mr Kincaid how does it feel to be a traitor to your species? Humans were purposefully sacrificed by secret factions of our own government. And you write this drivel to attempt to smear those who would expose it? You will be judged by God. All of you will.

  • john R

    No sir! The questions remain the same. No stubborn rants anywhere. failure to accept lies is stubborn? Fine, then I am stubborn. There are vast numbers of physics,architectural and scientific minds stubborn as well. You attempt to trivialize the “sacrifice” of nearly 300 souls is seen through.

  • john R

    Accurate I must admit. does this awaken anyone to the control media has over us?

  • john R

    Why do all these comments go off subject. Are we not here to discuss the 9/11 truth?

  • Shannon Marquardt

    Cliff-You need to look at the evidence of the 9/11 Truth movement and stop shooting off at the mouth. By the way, how much did the Bush family pay you to write this article?

  • mulegino1 .

    Whether it was an “inside job” or an “outside job”, the official version of 9/11 is a tragicomic farce, fit only for lobotomized infotainment consumers.

    If you accept the official version, you must believe that:

    Concrete can pulverize itself- or dustify itself- in midair, while falling to the ground due to a gravity collapse.

    Hydrocarbon based fires (jet fuel, paper, wood, office materials, etc.) can weaken and destroy gigantic steel core columns in less than an hour, and cause enormous structural steel beams to be ejected laterally for hundreds of yards at speeds above 50 miles per hour, embedding themselves in the concrete of neighboring buildings.

    The sciences of architecture, firefighting engineering and construction engineering have, from the beginning, been totally mistaken about the the strength and resistance of structural steel and concrete.

    Everybody who owns a wood burning iron stove should expect its imminent collapse while being used.

    Steel and concrete skyscrapers experiencing only hydrocarbon based office fires will fall all by themselves at free fall acceleration- as NIST has now acknowledged to be the case for WTC 7.

    Dust from falling buildings, collapsing from hydrocarbon based office fires will burn out the core of automobiles and buses and immediately corrode the steel

    Hydrocarbon based office fires (again, wood, paper, kerosene) will cause pools of molten metal which take months to cool down.

    Hydrocarbon based office fires will cause steel to evaporate and form free iron particles.

    A 757’s titanium engines will just disintegrate upon striking concrete at high speed.

    Amateur pilots with no time in type, one of whom could barely control a single engine Cessna, can perform miracles of aviation prowess with large passenger jets that experienced airline pilots, one of whom actually flew one of the very same airliners said to have been used on 9/11 could not duplicate in a professional simulator.

    “If you eliminate the impossible, then what remains, however improbable, must be true.”

    Arthur Conan Doyle

  • mulegino1 .

    This article was written to appeal to those people on the low end of the information spectrum, i.e., the ones who still think that CNN, Fox, MSNBC, etc., are impeccable sources of real information as opposed to corporate propaganda.

    No one who looks at the evidence with any degree of objectivity can fail to see that the official narrative of 9/11 is not only false, but laughably (in a tragicomic sense) so.

  • Albury Smith

    The 9/11 “truth movement” has no evidence supporting their absurdly unscientific claims, and the Bush family had nothing to do with this article.

  • izzysykopth

    Kincaid, you are a scumbag. ‘Director of the AIM Center for Investigative Journalism’? Translation:AIM Center for Disruptive Obfuscation. How did someone with such an obvious lack of integrity acquire such a position?The official narrative for 911 is laughable to anyone with the critical thinking skills bestowed upon a door knob. Your arguments would be comical if not so pathetic. Just remember the known laws of physics did not take the day off due to ‘intelligence failures’ and NO ONE ESCAPES KARMA!!! Your time is coming.

  • izzysykopth

    Probably both.

  • guest

    Your remarks about the anthrax attacks are particularly absurd. The anthrax was shown to be weaponized in the US, which is why US scientists were suspected suspected. You haven’t actually done any investigation at all, have you.

  • guest

    the evidence that the anthrax attacks came from AQ as this article claims, Albury? That’s pure bs and you know it.

  • Albury Smith

    I agree. What’s your point?

  • robbes

    My comment was a little convoluted, but my point was certainly not to trivialize the death of 3,000 Americans. I was, and remain horrified by the events that day. The violence of the Middle East was brought to our doorstep, and we should have been prepared, but we weren’t. To make matters worse George Bush used 911 as an impetus and justification to attack Iraq. I’m sickened by what the United States has done to Iraq. The whole enterprise was a complete failure. There were no weapons of mass destruction and Saddam was not a terrorist. George W Bush was a fool and a hack – hardly the qualities you would expect from someone who could pull off something as brazen as this elaborate attack upon his own country. You are a fool if you think the other leaders in the government would stand for such a thing. Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld: they would all be hung for high treason. All of that death and destruction just so Halliburton could get a little contract in the Middle East. It’s ridiculous. We’ve had 13 years to sort this shit out. The official story has remained consistent, and the conspiracy theories have been all over the map. Enough is enough. It’s time to move on.

  • john R

    The problem with stating that we’ve had 13 yrs to sort anything out is that it’s simply not true. The government has not allowed any sorting out. All that has happened is attempts to discredit anyone asking questions. How do you explain 28 pages of the so called 9/11 report being redacted and not available for view by anyone? Why are only two towers ever mentioned in the report? It is not time to move on. That is the statement of someone who either does not care about the truth or would rather not know the truth lest it make him/her uncomfortable. Or open the door for many more questions. From the moment of the demolition of the towers, and make no mistake they were demolished, the executive branch of the government stated “you are with us or you are with the terrorists”. There was no room for dissent and doubt of the “official” story. You are a fool or a tool if you believe no gov agency could get away with this. And you are sublimely stupid or ignorant if you think the defense industry got “a little contract” out of that day. How about trillions in contracts for deployments in Iraq, Afghanistan, More troops in Saudi Arabia, an entirely new gov agency was formed. The dept of homeland security. A laundry list of violations of our liberties has been committed because of the fear instilled upon Americans. If I lie to you consistently does that make it true?

  • scott_ewing

    Best documentary I’ve yet seen on the case for Controlled Demolition
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEkVsj88Xsg

  • Michael

    seems like his name should be Cliff Koolaid.

  • Michael

    or maybe Cliff Con-aid.
    perhaps I need to rethink my opposition to evolution. Kincaid seems like a pretty good candidate for one of those famous missing links between the alleged ape like ancestor and modern man.

  • David W

    The “inside job” theory of 9/11 is appealing to those holding a Marxist or anti-Semitic view that American foreign policy is secretly manipulated by “imperialist” or “Zionist” agents.

    Wow, I am distancing myself from this statement extracted from the above article as it borders on the witch hunt 50s, but conversely I was also interested why so many people cling to the idea that thousands of scientists, architects, mechanical, structural, demolition, aircraft and computer engineers, firefighters and other first responders and ordinary citizens who, as a whole group, are survivors of the tragedy like the rest of us, as well as victims family’s, who at the time had not anticipated these events would just start making up stories to vilify our government. These so called “theories” are mostly based on the above mentioned real time massive demolition explosions that had enough power to “dustify” two buildings and bring down a third that was said to have fallen due to structural damage and fires caused by the other collapses. The problem being there were massive buildings between the two towers and building #7, which fell at free fall, (no resistance speed) 10 hours later.(Take a walk to your local downtown, stand next to a, lets say, 10 story building and look up as the physical structure, compare it to the video of building #7 and be honest with yourself, what would happen to the ten story building if it had an “office fire”) Has any building in history before or since, ever been “dustified” from a smoldering black smoke, low heat fire with massive steel girders blown some 600 yards from the building site. That takes massive amounts of energy. Contact your local demolition company and ask them what the total explosive load, and cost, would be to accomplish the task on your ten story, expensive I bet, as DEstrucion costs just like CONstruction does. What would be your estimate be to bring down your ten story? don’t forget, time is money and the clean up crews are waiting, Have you got the visual yet?
    If these ad infinitum inconsistencies, (there are so many top 25 lists you can’t count them all) constitute a road map for those questioning the “official” story, a la institutionalized, pensions and paycheck talking heads such as Brian Williams, then lets get those questions answered instead of telling us that they “can’t release the “tapes, files, data, testimony, etc, etc” for “our protection” Being a 10th gen american I am not UNamerican, So if I question tangible, measurable events such as these then let the name calling begin…..This is way more about the gap between the haves and the have nots and the obvious lies, cover ups and set ups, past, present and future than any search for real truth by our “Government”
    truth.http://www.justicefor911.org/Cover_and_Preamble_111904.php

  • David W

    The “inside job” theory of 9/11 is appealing to those
    holding a Marxist or anti-Semitic view that American foreign policy is secretlymanipulated by “imperialist” or “Zionist” agents.

    Wow, I am distancing myself from this statement extracted
    from the above article as it borders on the witch hunt 50s, but conversely I
    was also interested why so many people cling to the idea that thousands of
    scientists, architects, mechanical, structural, demolition, aircraft and
    computer engineers, firefighters and other first responders and ordinary
    citizens who, as a whole group, are survivors of the tragedy like the rest of
    us, as well as victims family’s, who at the time had not anticipated these
    events would just start making up stories to vilify our government. These so
    called “theories” are mostly based on the above mentioned real time
    massive demolition explosions that had enough power to “dustify” two
    buildings and bring down a third that was said to have fallen due to structural
    damage and fires caused by the other collapses. The problem being there were
    massive buildings between the two towers and building #7, which fell at free
    fall, (no resistance speed) 10 hours later.(Take a walk to your local downtown,
    stand next to a, lets say, 10 story building and look up as the physical
    structure, compare it to the video of building #7, 47 stories by the way, and
    be honest with yourself, what would happen to the ten story building if it had
    an “office fire”) Has any building in history before or since, ever
    been “dustified” from a smoldering black smoke, low heat fire with
    massive steel girders blown some 600 yards from the building site. That takes
    massive amounts of energy. Contact your local demolition company and ask them
    what the total explosive load, and cost, would be to accomplish the task on
    your ten story, expensive I bet, as DEstrucion costs just like CONstruction
    does, as energy can’t be created or destroyed, only moved from one place to
    another What would be your estimate be to bring down your ten story? don’t
    forget, time is money and the clean up crews are waiting, Have you got the
    visual yet?

    If these ad infinitum inconsistencies, (there are so many
    top 25 lists you can’t count them all) constitute a road map for those
    questioning the “official” story, a la institutionalized, pensions
    and paycheck talking heads such as Brian Williams, then lets get those
    questions answered instead of telling us that they “can’t release the
    “tapes, files, data, testimony, etc, etc” for “our
    protection” Being a multi gen American I am not UNamerican, So if I
    question tangible, measurable events such as these then let the name calling
    begin…..This is way more about the gap between the haves and the have not’s
    and the obvious lies, cover ups and set ups, past, present and future than any
    search for real truth by our government.

  • David W

    ass

  • David W

    wow a name caller, nana nana nana

  • David W

    The “inside job” theory of 9/11 is appealing to those
    holding a Marxist or anti-Semitic view that American foreign policy is secretly
    manipulated by “imperialist” or “Zionist” agents.

    Wow, I am distancing myself from this statement extracted
    from the above article as it borders on the witch hunt 50s, but conversely I
    was also interested why so many people cling to the idea that thousands of
    scientists, architects, mechanical, structural, demolition, aircraft and
    computer engineers, firefighters and other first responders and ordinary
    citizens who, as a whole group, are survivors of the tragedy like the rest of
    us, as well as victims family’s, who at the time had not anticipated these
    events would just start making up stories to vilify our government. These so
    called “theories” are mostly based on the above mentioned real time
    massive demolition explosions that had enough power to “dustify” two
    buildings and bring down a third that was said to have fallen due to structural
    damage and fires caused by the other collapses. The problem being there were
    massive buildings between the two towers and building #7, which fell at free
    fall, (no resistance speed) 10 hours later.(Take a walk to your local downtown,
    stand next to a, lets say, 10 story building and look up as the physical structure,
    compare it to the video of building #7, 47 stories by the way, and be honest
    with yourself, what would happen to the ten story building if it had an
    “office fire”) Has any building in history before or since, ever been
    “dustified” from a smoldering black smoke, low heat fire with massive
    steel girders blown some 600 yards from the building site. That takes massive
    amounts of energy. Contact your local demolition company and ask them what the
    total explosive load, and cost, would be to accomplish the task on your ten
    story, expensive I bet, as DEstrucion costs just like CONstruction does, as
    energy can’t be created or destroyed, only moved from one place to another What
    would be your estimate be to bring down your ten story? don’t forget, time is money
    and the clean up crews are waiting, Have you got the visual yet?

    If these ad infinitum inconsistencies, (there are so many
    top 25 lists you can’t count them all) constitute a road map for those
    questioning the “official” story, a la institutionalized, pensions
    and paycheck talking heads such as Brian Williams, then lets get those
    questions answered instead of telling us that they “can’t release the
    “tapes, files, data, testimony, etc, etc” for “our
    protection” Being a multi gen American I am not UNamerican, So if I
    question tangible, measurable events such as these then let the name calling
    begin…..This is way more about the gap between the haves and the have not’s
    and the obvious lies, cover ups and set ups, past, present and future than any
    search for real truth by our government.

  • john R

    Only 3 times in history have steel framed buildings collapsed from fire. All on the same day. 9/11. 3 of the best built buildings, built to withstand aircraft impacts. I am in disbelief that nothing has been done about the obvious facts, and they are obvious if you are awake.

  • David W

    “Taking this one step further, if U.S. officials couldn’t even successfully plant evidence of weapons of mass destruction in 2003, in order to justify the war in Iraq,”

    Pat Tillman’s family might have something to say about this statement from above.

    And as far as the blurb about the anthrax, ther’es so many but go here I guess.
    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/frameup.html

  • Ty Vulpine

    FALSE! Many steel framed buildings have collapsed from fire. I point you to the Windsor Tower in Spain. The ENTIRE steel portion of the mall COLLAPSED from fire, and didn’t even get hit by a commercial plane!

  • john R

    Really? Many? Cite another one. Last I looked the windsor tower is still standing

  • Dave Eboch

    Cliff you must be one sorry arse investigative journalist or you are on a Neocons payroll. The evidence is overwhelming it was an inside job of some type. Why was Norad on stand down?That order was issued in June of 2001. I could go on for hours but you little pip squeaks that covered this up for the Zionist terror war mongers will get your just desserts one day.

  • AutborIs A traitor

    This author is a TRAITOR! He should be arrested. 7 building were damaged or destroyed not 2 or 3. Every damn building w a wtc signature, what about hurrican erin u moron. Or the seismic data , ur a traitor. Explain the 1400 toasted cars u traitor. I can , u cant. Leave this country traitor author.

  • AutborIs A traitor

    How does nano thermite or cd , cause the damage to wtc6? The truth movement was hijacked and made about wtc7, wtc6 is what everyone should look at. Ae911, 911truth are disinfo shill orgsanizati i ns. Dr fetzer, dr jones, susan lindaeur all shill disinfo agents….people need to wake up and,get on the same,page. 28 pages were a way to blackmail saudi by tptb. Nist report is science fraud and,has been,proven, 28 pages are a red herring. Nist doesnt even mention wtc 7 or wtc 3,4,5,6 in report. Nothing can be believed.

  • AutborIs A traitor

    I agree w you. But ae911 and 911truth along w dr fetzer, dr jones, susan lindeaur are all proven to be 911 disinfo shills. They have done as much to hurt and,discredit the real truth as much as the moron shill traitor author is…
    Buildings turned to dust in air , wake up before its to late.

  • Johnny Drama

    Patriot, if you actually look at the list for “AE911 TWOOF!, they use water, electrical, computer, marine etc….Engineers to describe building structures. Now, since when do Computer, water and electrical engineers become experts on building designs?….so that 2,000 is really more like 6 or 700…and lastly….there are over 140,000 civil engineers at ASCE who disagree with them…And then there is NASA, Steel.org, Structure.mag, Journal of Engineering mechanics, popular Mechanics, NIST, HERA, FEMA, Fire Engineering V 5 and last but not least, NOVA….wow, are all those people lying to us too? thats ALOT of people lying to us Patriot…Now patriot, i would like to remind you that our U.S. Government couldn’t even keep a BLOWJOB quiet in the white house with less then 10 people being involved….What makes you think they can pull of an operation with nearly 1 million people keeping a secret?

    Again, have you happened to notice the “Donate” or “Gift Shop” pages on AE911 truth and other conspiracy sites?

    TRANSLATION= They’re conmen…Truthers lie.

  • NeilBJ

    Even the NIST report acknowledges that the collapse of WTC7 would be the first collapse of a steel framed building due to fire. This is stated in ES.1 on page xxxv of the Final Report that was released in 2008.

  • NeilBJ

    Has the author of this article actually looked at any evidence? For example, one key piece of evidence that is even acknowledged in the final NIST report (2008) on page 48 is the fact that WTC7 fell at free fall acceleration for 2.25 seconds.

    Anybody who knows physics knows that for an object to fall at free fall acceleration it must encounter no resistance. Resistance of any kind would obviously slow the acceleration of the falling object. In the case of a building falling at free fall acceleration, that means that all structures supporting the building would have to be removed simultaneously. The only way this can happen is with carefully placed and timed incendiary devices.

    The fact that the NIST report acknowledges the free fall but effectively ignores it means they are either stupid (which I doubt) or they want to cover it up.

  • John J Udelle

    Another Propaganda plant to discredit the moment.

  • Trey Butts

    can you say, paid government agent?

  • Trey Butts

    19 islamic amatuers hiding out in caves overthrew our multi billion dollar defense system? bullshit, 9/11 was the day that newtons laws of motion didnt matter for a day

  • Trey Butts

    cliff kincaid, probably a paid government agent to spread 9/11 propaganda

  • wolfcreekchrissy

    The Delft University fire, and in addition to steel, the building was concrete reinforced. Boom, down it went anyway.

  • wolfcreekchrissy

    Get help NOW….you are a nut job.

  • wolfcreekchrissy

    Not only are you a nut, a pot head and want to change the definition of marriage, you also have really LOUSY taste in music.

  • wolfcreekchrissy

    “Black helicopter”??? What are you raving about now??

  • Claire

    Hahaha this is absolute Classic propaganda right here.

    Describing anyone who happens to believe the scientific evidence over the clearly fabricated sensationalist ‘official’ story as a ‘kook’ or ‘lunatic’ is a great way to subliminally lump all those who doubt the govt as an extremist paranoid crazy person, which is completely untrue.

    The scientific evidence proves that the towers should all be still standing. Skyscrapers don’t just collapse into themselves after a measly fire that burned for less than two hours. Fires in similar buildings have burned for 19 hours without even a hint of a collapse. The engineers that designed the twin towers completely agree they should still be standing. The official story defies the laws of physics.

    Your blatant laughable attempts to link seeking the truth to lunacy is obvious. You may fool some but people see through the ploy.

  • Claire

    Hahaha this is absolute Classic propaganda right here.

    Describing anyone who happens to believe the scientific evidence over the clearly fabricated sensationalist ‘official’ story as a ‘kook’ or ‘lunatic’ is a great way to subliminally lump all those who doubt the govt as an extremist paranoid crazy person, which is completely untrue.

    The scientific evidence proves that the towers should all be still standing. Skyscrapers don’t just collapse into themselves after a measly fire that burned for less than two hours. Fires in similar buildings have burned for 19 hours without even a hint of a collapse. The engineers that designed the twin towers completely agree they should still be standing. The official story defies the laws of physics.

    Your blatant laughable attempts to link seeking the truth to lunacy is obvious. You may fool some but people see through the ploy. You provide zero rebuttal t valid scientific points and continue to claim its lunacy to believe this. Maybe you’re the lunatic. People who continue to deny reality when faced with cold hard evidence are truly the crazy ones, not the ones who doubt the official government bullshit story. The gov has truly forgotten their role.

  • Dave Eboch

    Dude? Really Cliff Kincaid or should I day Cliff Koolaid? Look up Operation Northwoods dude! You may very well be the one who is wrong.

  • Dave Eboch

    Even the United States senate know there is a 28 page classified report and those who read it state they were shocked? Hello?

  • Escape the Machine

    East Timor.

  • Escape the Machine

    Hundreds of thousands of Jewish concentration camp inmate/survivors have testified and are on record of Nazi mass-murder in gas chambers in Germany in the years before and throughout WWII.
    They spoke, many at length, of every Nazi atrocity imaginable.
    One SS guard had a taste for the eyeballs of Jewish babies — but they had to be plucked out while the baby was alive. Many spoke of toilet paper made from sandpaper.
    We all know about the once heralded human skin lampshades and soap made from Jewish body fat.
    All disproved one by one, and quietly dropped from the holocaust narrative over the years.
    Were the claims disproved by antisemites? Were they “Jew-haters” or neo-Nazis?

    And even though all the stories were consistent in their horror value, it is now known and admitted by the holocaust promoters, supporters and profiteers that no so-called “death camps” ever existed in Germany.
    Ever.
    But rather curious indeed, is that the testimonies from Jewish survivors in camps located throughout Germany, were essentially identical to the testimonies of hundreds of thousands of Jewish inmates interned in Czechoslovakia and Poland — where US liberators were forbidden access.

    Yad Vashem is the international center for Holocaust documentation in Jerusalem. It’s former archives director Shmuel Krakowski stated more than 20 years ago that more than 10,000 “eyewitness testimonies” about German atrocities against Jews have been shown to be false at — Yad Vashem alone.
    What would be revealed about the accuracy of additional testimonials?

    Since the end of WWII and for 45 years, the prominent marble plaque at the entrance to Auschwitz that claimed that “4 million people had died here” was replaced in 1990 by a similar plaque proclaiming that 1.4 million people, mostly Jews, had died there.
    But the all-important figure of “6 million” remains.

    At Mathousen, a number of inmates claimed that between 500,000 and 800,000 gassed corpses, (Jewish, of course), had been buried many months before and largely decomposed, and they were charged with digging them up so that they could be cremated.
    They were supervised by Nazi guards that were laughing, beating them — while enjoying wine, sandwiches and snacks.
    Scientific studies have proved that the soil surrounding Mathousen has not been disturbed for thousands of years.
    The holocaust museums that dot the landscape once claimed that 2 million Jews had died at Mathousen — and now acknowledge that around 95,000 “people”, (14,000 were Jewish), died there.

    A part of the holocaust for 45 years, the WWII massacre of Polish elite in the Katyn Forest was attributed to the Nazis, as the blame was squarely laid there by the Soviet deputation at the Nuremberg trials. The Russians admitted in 1990 that Soviet troops were responsible for the mass murder of 21,857 Polish elite. The British, French and American prosecutors and authorities knew this at the time and withheld it from the disclosure process.

    In the years following the war and in their respective autobiographies, neither Winston Churchill nor Dwight Eisenhower makes any mention of any Nazi concentration camp “gas chambers” or any program/policy of mass murder carried out against the Jews.

    Based entirely on the complete wartime German concentration camp records that had been captured by the Soviets and (at the time) recently released, the New York Times on March 3, 1991 reported that the Auschwitz death total was 73,137.
    Of those, 38,031 were Jews. These records document that the total of all persons who died (of disease, war-time deprivations, old age, executions), in the ENTIRE German prison camp system from 1935 to 1945 was 403,713.
    73,137 at Auschwitz, of all causes, and 38,031 were Jews. Not 1.1 million. Not 1.4 million. Not 4 million. But, the seemingly magical number of “6 million” remains affixed to the holocaust.

    Add to that, the fact that no homicidal gas chamber has ever been verified as such — by anybody — except one that was “reconstructed” by the Soviets following the war.

    I can’t speak for anyone else and don’t pretend to — but such matters only serve to make me curious.

  • Pakistani, Indian and Desi Chat Room Without Registration or Signup.

    http://sayshey.com/

  • Dave Eboch

    If it was just a few key groups with political motivation spewing 911 was an inside job I could agree with this article. However it is not and if the truth movement is so crazy then why is the media and other officials so threatened by them. I don’t think outside influences are that influencing and I am sure it is amusing how stupid some of America is. Murica thinks after all its patriotic to know only the English language instead of hey learn Chinese and read their news to get their views or info. The government or past the government, corporate and banking cartels can get away with a lot when the public is dumbed down like America. The people who can think for themselves question 911.

  • Rio Guzman
  • People get their propaganda from these thought “leaders” instead of looking at the evidence and using their brains. Noam Chomsky and other “left” icons have misled their readers for years with blizzards of obfuscation. If you actually care about accuracy in media, talk to Senator Bob Graham.

    Chomsky has been babbling incoherently about 9/11 for 14 years, and he now resorts to logical fallacies, ugly contortions, which signal the end of his credibility.

    My challenge to him has stood without a response…

    A Public Challenge to Professor Noam Chomsky
    https://politicalfilm.wordpress.com/2015/12/01/a-public-challenge-to-professor-noam-chomsky/

  • They used nano thermite. The Danish scientist found it. Watch the new 2015 film 911 a decade of deception. Enough to convince any hurt anywhere. It’s all bs. As I’m sure most of you know. Case closed.

  • Jury. Not hurt. Spell check … :/

  • turn2

    I’ve liked a lot of what you’ve done in the past, Cliff, but in this case your AIM is way off. You’re actually going along with the media you routinely denounce.

    It’s curious that there are organized groups of victims’ family members, scholars, pilots, architects, engineers, U.S. military officers, firefighters and other first responders and other concerned citizens for 9/11 truth, but never journalists or politicians. Why is that is?

    It can’t be because the evidence so overwhelmingly supports the official version of events, because it doesn’t. For anyone who isn’t deceived, deceiving or who chooses to deliberately ignore the laws of physics, it’s manifestly evident that the WTC towers (and Building 7) fell due to controlled demolition. Maybe Muslim conspirators armed with box cutters managed to force their way into the buildings and rigged them with explosives. Now, that’s really plausible, isn’t it? #sarcasm

    Below is an interview of an architect discussing the three imploded structures with video comparison of Building 7 (which housed FBI & CIA offices, btw) & a controlled demolition, which shows them falling at identical speeds. There’s no way on earth that the planes brought down these buildings (remember, it didn’t even hit Building 7)–it’s a physical impossibility.

    youtube–com/watch?v=9GBOaSC1fk0

  • Fuck thenwo

    Whoever wrote this article needs to get testicular cancer and die.

  • Fuck thenwo

    Cliff Kincaid, be warned; I will personally spit in your face if I ever meet you. I’d also gladly go to court after beating he fucking shit out of you 😉 good luck, bro

  • Aryan Verma

    hmm what this post is about? I came here just to add a link to comments lol

    http://chatperky.com/

  • Wihosa

    Well Cliff Kinkaid has either never looked at any of AE911’s evidence or he is simply employed in the coverup.
    No amount of propaganda from the likes of him can ever make any of the impossibilities of the Official Conspiracy Theory true.
    Start with the smoking gun that is Building 7. A 47 story building with a footprint the size of a football field, it was not hit by an airplane, but fell at about 5:20 pm on 9/11. The NIST charged with investigating the collapse claims it was due to “normal office fires” which if true represents the first instance of such failure in the history of steel framed high rise buildings (an extraordinary claim!). The NIST admits the building was in free fall during collapse and admits that free fall means there are no structural components under it. How does the NIST explain this? They don’t. In fact they won’t release the data they used to create their computer model animation of B7. An animation which looks nothing like the multiple videos of the building going straight down into its own footprint in 6.5 seconds! Add to this the fact that CNN and the BBC both reported that Building7 “had collapsed” before it actually had! This clearly demonstrates foreknowledge. Also, the fact that the 911 Commission failed to even mention Building 7 in its official report exposes the cover-up.

    Virtually every part of the OCT is as full of holes as is the story about Building 7. The whole story of 911 is full of extraordinary claims and should be extraordinary evidence to prove the claims.

  • Wihosa

    Chomsky has been such a disappointment. It’s puzzling that he could be on the wrong side, makes me wonder if he was ever what he portrayed himself as.
    The realization that 9/11 was a false flag event carried out by elements of the media and our own government changed my world view.

  • I would hesitate to phrase it as you did: “carried out by elements of the media and our own government.”

    What we know for certain is that the white house covered it up afterward and went out of their way not to stop the attack. The specific details of that day remain fuzzy. There is a bottom line: cover up is undeniable. Chomsky knows this, but he chooses to talk around it. His followers (gullible) are misled and perpetrate the official 9/11 myth without any study or thought whatsoever.

  • acchokiefan@gmail.com

    Roger Ayles said the truth is whatever you can get people to believe. We will put that on his tombstone after he’s been found guilty of treason and given a lethal injection. Fox anchors will be arrested and tried and many will get life in prison, while many more will spend deacades behind bars. Roaring through the judicial system, the puppets will be sent off to prison and real Justice seekers like Vincent Bugliosi will appoint a massive corruption team that starts with the media. (THEY HAVE TO BE SHUT DOWN FIRST) and a true to form two source Emergency Media will be provided to inform the people. 24 hours of non stop, on the scene reporting of absolute truth. From the media, I think the next place is to roar through the pentagon and arrest all 1000 generals. Some will be released in days as they are sorted through. General Jack Keane (retired) with Fox News (is also a hidden lobbyist with GE and Blackwater). We hand him over to the public and they go MussOlini on him. All military funding stops immediately. We ask politely that Russina and China not attack us during this transition Period. Form top to bottom we go releasing people in prison for pot, and driving them to Jack Keanes home. He’s not going to need it. Clean America , and wipe the floor with fascists CEOs

  • acchokiefan@gmail.com

    Heres what kind of power the media has over people. So who is this Cliff Kinkead? He’s either a paid for whore, or he truly is just another poor stupid person. But irresponsible media reporting is what has ruined the country. I’d give him 100 years behind bars for irresponsible abuse of power. Think the press doesn’t have power?

    The 40% of Americans who question how building 7 could have fallen at the rate of gravity are complete lunatics.

    But the Fox Viewers who believe that 97% of scientists across the globe have gotten together secretly and invented Global Warming.

  • RRoach

    John check out popular mechanics website and you will see numerous examples

  • john R

    No Roach. Collapsed. At free fall speed. Not listing or gutted from fire. And I’m talking about buildings with no structural wood. There are no other examples to match 9/11

  • TVG

    “Wow Cliff, have you done any real research” Translation: have you read stuff that supports my viewpoint? As for your Gish Gallop list of truther groups with impressive-sounding names, what makes them more credible than Hot Dog Vendors for 9/11 Truth?

  • TVG

    Ah, the resort to the Nazis. A sure sign of appeal to emotion rather than weight of credible evidence.

  • TVG

    A name caller who doesn’t mention a name? Riiiigghht… And you are just claiming victimhood while failing to address his points.

  • TVG

    Au contraire, that circus is a few clowns shy of a load.

  • M2000

    So why is your cause dedicated to suggesting any critic of their movement is “working” for the government?

  • TVG

    They may have laughed at Copernicus and Galileo. They also laughed at Bozo the clown. That doesn’t make Bozo a paragon of scientific thinking. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Galileo_Gambit

  • TVG

    Eventually they’ll move to ‘chemtrails made me think it’.

  • TVG

    “Fuck you, Cliff. Simply fuck you.” And that, folks, is the actual basis of the ‘Truth’ movement.

  • TVG

    An inconvenient truth about those who profess to want the truth.

  • TVG

    In other words, you are proclaiming your idiocy before the entire online world. Youtube is your source for knowledge?

  • TVG

    They don’t believe that an apparatus funded by a state controlled by a former KGB agent born and raised in the cold war by parents who lived in WWII could possibly be lying once in a while? And they call others fools!

  • TVG

    It’s all about them.

  • TVG

    The Danish scientist you can’t name is likely a researcher studying a danish in a pastry shop.

  • TVG

    Personal attacks and childish name-calling. That’s some evidence you got there. /s

  • TVG

    Extra Special Awakened (Yet Humble) People for 9/11 Truth

  • TVG

    Because those are your words, not his? Straw man much?

  • TVG

    “La la la la la! I can’t hear you!”

  • acleavian

    On 9/11 3 building collapsed COMPLETELY in onto itself at free fall speed. The windsor tower only had small collapses not an entire collapse.

  • Ty Vulpine

    False. The debris falling away from the Towers fell FASTER than the Tower, as clearly is seen in ANY video, dumbass.

  • acleavian

    All three building fell close to free fall speed. As you stated ” the debris falling away from the towers” how does debris being pulled down by gravity get the energy to move away from the building? Perhaps explosions not only pushed this debris away from the tower but accelerated it to the ground. Got to youtube and you can watch videos of people that day reporting numerous explosions coming from the towers before either collapsed. In many videos you can actually hear what is clearly an explosion. Many reporters stated the same as well. Have you read any of the other posts? Many are quite accurate. Ty your the only ignorant Dumbass

  • Ty Vulpine

    You clearly don’t know what freefall means.

  • Ty Vulpine

    Oh, by the way,
    1. It’s you’re, not your. Go back to school, kid.
    2. Prove there were ‘explosions’, as you suggested. Which, I might add, no Twoofer ever actually has bothered to do so.
    3. The Truth Movement died out years ago after all their claims were thoroughly debunked. Stop drinking the Twoofer kool-aid.

  • Paulie Abque

    it’s funny as time goes on (it’s now 2016) it’s articles like these that are now sounding totally idiotic and “kooky. Is he really that that naive and stupid? I bet Cliff still gets his news from CNN, the New York Times and (because he thinks of himself as enlightened) Democracy Now. Cliff has a lot of catching up to do.

  • umbrarchist

    No but I spend a lot of time ignoring people who name argument styles instead of actually presenting logical arguments.

  • Why are the alleged “lies” (or mistakes?) of the truth movement more important to you than the lies of the government that prompted the movement in the first place?

    Where’s your research into official lies? Or are you paid to smear people in one-sided propaganda? What about all the unassailable facts of the truth movement? Where’s equal time and fairness? You are not interested in “accuracy in media,” propagandist. So change the name.

    It is not an “intelligence failure” if it’s deliberate. That makes it a success. You have no justification for your spin, other than the desire to please the government, apparently.

    You never mentioned FBI agents & Richard Clarke accusing Tenet and “fifty” CIA officers of hiding hijackers from him. If the CIA knew they were there, and they knew attacks were coming, and yet failed to apprehend the perpetrators, well calling that a “failure” is what a Good German does in the Reich.

    You need to acknowledge the ongoing cover-up and decide whose side you’re actually on.

    https://politicalfilm.wordpress.com/2015/12/01/a-public-challenge-to-professor-noam-chomsky/

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  • Allen Victor Cox

    The hoax continues they lied to take us to war in Iraq these are the same people who told the lies about WTCs Hello anyone alive let alone awake?