Communist Party Backs Obama
AIM Column | By Cliff Kincaid | July 3, 2008
Obama showed his gratitude by going to socialist conferences and selecting Marxist professors as his friends in college.
Barack Obama’s patriotic tour has run into a snag. More evidence of communist backing for the candidate has surfaced. The latest to emerge publicly in Obama’s camp is Joelle Fishman, the chairman of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) Political Action Commission. In a column titled, “Big political shifts are underway,” Fishman says that Obama could lead “a landslide defeat of the Republican ultra-right” this November and that he is “ready to listen” to the “left and progressive voters” backing him. Fishman makes it clear that the CPUSA is part of this coalition.
Meanwhile, admitted CPUSA member Alan Maki, writing on the official Barack Obama website, in the “community blogs” section under an “Obama 08” banner, has mentioned the unmentionable. That is the role of CPUSA member Frank Marshall Davis in mentoring Obama during his formative high school years in Hawaii.
Although fine print at the bottom of the page says that “Content on blogs in My.BarackObama represents the opinions of community members and in no way should be interpreted as endorsed or approved by the campaign,” the information provided by Maki is deadly confirmation that a hard-core CPUSA member played a key role in helping raise Obama. It is a story that most media, including some “conservative” news outlets, have shied away from.
Davis, who died in 1987, was a Stalinist who stayed with the CPUSA when others were abandoning it, and he refused, as late as 1956, to deny his membership in the party. He was selected by Obama’s white grandfather to be the future candidate’s role model and father-figure.
Obama showed his gratitude by going to socialist conferences and selecting Marxist professors as his friends in college. Later, of course, he would arrive in Chicago and launch his political career in the arms of communist terrorists Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, who, according to declassified intelligence information (PDF), were members of a group with connections to the CPUSA, foreign communist regimes, and even the Soviet KGB. The information shows that their close terrorist associate, Kathy Boudin, attended Moscow University and was subsidized by the Soviet government. Her father was a CPUSA member and a registered Cuban agent, documents show.
Praise for the CPUSA Figure
Announcing the “Frank Marshall Davis roundtable for change” on the Obama website, Maki, a Democratic Party activist and casino worker organizer, explained, “Reading Barack Obama’s book I learned about his mentor, Frank Marshall Davis.” He went on, “Of course, as we all know, Frank Marshall Davis was a Communist and he had a very good understanding of the underlying source of problems which all too often goes unstated and unchallenged and remains hidden because of the high fear-factor level in this country; I am referring to capitalism―a thoroughly rotten system. Frank Marshall Davis also understood through his thorough studies of the situation that socialism provided the only workable alternative to capitalism.”
Saying that he has been “active in the Minnesota DFL and the Democratic Party most of my life,” Maki still wants to know about the specifics of the “change” Obama is promising.
Maki goes on to say, “There really isn’t much for us to learn about ‘change’ from Obama, but there is quite a bit to be gleaned from the writings of Frank Marshall Davis and I thank Barack Obama for bringing him to my attention… now I can say that Frank Marshall Davis is in many ways my mentor, too.”
In a telephone conversation, Maki admitted being a CPUSA member and claimed the FBI had thousands of pages on him. A friendly fellow, he maintains more than a dozen blogs. One of them is simply titled, “Communist manifesto.”
For her part, CPUSA official Fishman seems to have more insight into Obama’s notion of change. “In sharp contrast” to John McCain, Fishman writes, “Obama speaks of strengthening government to provide health care and jobs, address global warming and end the war in Iraq.”
Drudge Plays Role of Censor
While Obama’s far-left support seems to be worthy of news and comment, Matt Drudge of Drudge Report fame has just rejected two paid ads submitted by my group America’s Survival, Inc. about the influence that CPUSA member Davis exerted over a young Obama. The ads featured a photo of Davis and a communist hammer and sickle. They asked, “Who is this man?,” and urged viewers to click to “Meet the mysterious Red Mentor” so they could be directed to two reports on the subject. The ads were “too controversial,” Drudge’s representative told me.
A recent article in Politico suggested Drudge was moving into the Obama camp. Matt Drudge, the article said, has been “trumpeting Obama’s victories and shrugging at his scandals.” The rejection of my ads is proof of that.
While Drudge protects Obama to the extent of rejecting paid advertising which draws attention to his Frank Marshall Davis connection, the “progressives” are openly talking about it. A “progressive” blogger named Rita responded to Alan Maki and says she checked out a copy of Davis’s book, Livin’ the Blues, from the library, and has been “reading it every day and sharing this with my kids…Frank Marshall Davis was a journalist and social activist of tremendous courage. I want to point out that Frank Marshall Davis was not only a voice for civil and human rights; his voice was a solid voice for the rights of all working people.”
She reproduces Maki’s email on Davis, which notes that copies were sent to such left-wing luminaries as Rep. Keith Ellison, Carl Pope of the Sierra Club, and Robert Borosage of the Institute for America’s Future and the Campaign for America’s Future. Borosage, who writes for the Huffington Post, is also the founder and chairman of the Progressive Majority Political Action Committee, which “recruits, staffs, and funds progressive candidates for political office.”
If Davis was indeed a “voice for civil and human rights,” why didn’t Barack Obama proudly identify Frank Marshall Davis by his full name in Dreams From My Father? Instead, Obama refers repeatedly to somebody named “Frank” giving him advice on various matters. Obama does note, however, that “Frank” was a contemporary of black poets Richard Wright and Langston Hughes. This is a hint of his real identity. The reference is significant because Wright and Hughes broke with the CPUSA while Davis did not. Indeed, Davis, in Livin’ the Blues (page 243), refers to Wright’s “act of treason” for exposing the CPUSA. Davis favored cooperation between what he called “Reds and blacks.” This demonstrates how much of a committed communist Davis really was. And this may be why Obama didn’t want readers to know his true identity.
A writer for a communist publication, Gerald Horne, first identified the mysterious “Frank” as Frank Marshall Davis. The identity was confirmed by Dr. Kathryn Takara of the University of Hawaii. Now, Alan Maki confirms it as well, saying that “progressives” should be proud of his legacy.
Praising Foreign Reds, Too
In addition to glorifying Davis as a source of sound ideas, the “progressive” Minnesota blog that favorably cites Maki also features a picture of “Raul Reyes…heroic leader of the Columbian resistance.” This is the dead leader of the communist narco-terrorists known as the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC). Documents found in Reyes’ computer after his death disclosed that “gringos” representing Barack Obama wanted to meet with the FARC and that they were opposed to U.S. military aid for the Colombian government. Obama had been publicly critical of the Colombia government’s human rights record.
By contrast, the Bush Administration has helped the Colombia government in its war with the FARC. Fortunately, and no thanks to Obama, the FARC has suffered a series of setbacks, the most recent being the spectacular liberation of 15 people, including 3 Americans, held by the group. Just a decade ago, there was speculation that the FARC might be getting so strong as to actually be able to defeat the military forces of the government of Colombia.
The FARC is now in ruins, but their “gringo” friends with communist and “progressive” support might be able to take power in the U.S. The communists and their “progressive” allies appreciate the stakes. It’s too bad that Drudge does not.
Cliff Kincaid is the Editor of the AIM Report and can be reached at (JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
109 Comments
Nana,
You won’t hear the word “communism” from the mainstream media (MSM) because the word is taboo.
Afraid of being accused of McCarthyism, the word is a taboo in the MSM. Afraid of accusing anyone as communist, MSM has become paid-in network of communists.
DON’T YOU THAT ANTI-WAR MANTRA IS COMMUNISM ITSELF? IN FACT, COMMUNISM IS A NETWORK OF OBJECTIVES SUFFERING FROM POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.
AND THEY ARE A NETWORK OF POWERFUL GROUPS, WORKING LIKE ANGELS IN AMERICA, BUT WITH HIDDEN MOTIVE.
I suggest you also visit the following website for other major details:
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org
The above has been discussed in this website also since Day 1 and is nolonger a surprise.
Our too much trust and fun with the MSM have made us blind on its manipulations.
By the way, Barack is gearing for a major flip flop in Iraq.
He and his minions are making gestures as preparation for a reversal of position in Iraq.
His strategy is called “assessment”. WHY CHANGE? HE GOT ALREADY THE VOTES OF THOSE WHO WANTED THE IMMEDIATE REMOVAL OF US FORCES IN IRAQ. Why the need for assessment?
I don’t think that this major reversal of position is pointing to correct his stand in Iraq. Rather, BARACK EVEN WANTS THE VOTES OF Americans supporting the war on terrorism that he lavishly repudiated.
This subtle communist is really a subtle liar in all major positions so far.
He must be attacked now and forced to admit his mistake instead of muddling the issue. That’s what he did with Hillary. When he is caught wrongfooted, he will make alibis, making people further confused. By his rhetoric, you would think that he is right, despite the resounding fact that he is flatly WRONG.
Common guys, stop Barack’s muddling of his own position!
Nobama for me. He is not even a real communist, he really does not believe in anything. He will say and do any thing to get elected. He is a real political whore.
Obamassiah is seemingly gaining a reputation as being “arrogant,” a common trait among Marxists. I’m floored, too, by the so-called Evangelicals apparently undergoing acute attacks of stupidity in seeming to endorse this candidate, who seems to be crying “Lord Lord” with every breath to entice them into his camp! Makes me sick! I suppose it may also have something to do with his statement of maybe keeping Bush’s “Faith Based” initiatives but with a differing slant, i.e., to change it to receive taxpayer funds which would eliminate any and all “faith” from the said initiatives! What a sham this crack pot is, but then they said that also about Hitler and Stalin! God help the USA if this phoney gets elected! Where is McCain and when, if ever, is he going to stand up for us and get his campaign going?!
DON’T CALL ME A RACIST BECAUSE I OPPOSE A SEMI BLACK CANDIDATE WHO IS NOT QUALIFIED TO BE COMMANDER IN CHIEF. WHEN I HEARD THIS ANTI WIN CANDIDATE SAY WHEN I’M WITH NY GENERALS. I SAID PLEASE GOD SAVE AMERICA. NOW AIM IS REPORTING HE HAS BEEN ENDORSED BY THE COMMUNIST PARTY.
PLEASE DON’T CALL ME AN ANTI SEMITE WHEN I ASK THE QUESTION. HOW CAN A JEWISH GUY/GIRL JOIN THE ACLU OR BECOME THE CHAIRCOMRADE OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY? ARE THERE NO STARS OF DAVID AMONG THE CROSSES AT NORMANDY? YES THERE ARE. WHY WOULD YOU GIVE UP OUR NUCLEAR ADVANTAGE TO JOSEPH STALIN WHO IN 1953 PLANNED TO BEAT HITLER’S RECORD FOR JEWISH EXTERMINATION. FORTUNATELY GOD GAVE HIM A STROKE.
MY FRIENDS FREEDOM IS OUTNUMBERED 52 TO 48 IN THE
SOVIET USA. THAT MEANS YOUR VOTE IS ALL THAT IS LEFT TO STOP GRAY POOPON COMMUNISM. ALREADY THE DNC (THE DUMA OF NATIONAL COMMUNISM) HAS THE SCHOOLS, THE COURTS,THE STATE DEPARTMENT, THE MEDIA, THE PENTAGON LEGAL SCHMEEGLES TRYING MARINES FOR MURDER AND PUTTING BORDER GUARDS IN SOLITARY REFINEMENT. THEY NEARLY TOOK YOUR GUNS AWAY AND WILL GET THEM NEXT TIME WHEN THE FIFTH IMAN WINS REINFECTION.
YES THE PARTY OF DEATH TO MINDS AND FULL TERM BABIES WILL BRING THE TROOPS HOME QUICKLY. THE ONLY TROUBLE IS UDEI PELOSEI SAYS THEY HAVE TO BE FROM HER COUNTRY, IED SYRIA.
THE PRAVDA MEDIA CALLS STOPPING TERROR RACIAL PROFILING. YET TAKES THE BRIBED WORD OF A NUKE INSPECTOR NAMED MOHAMMED. THAT WAS BEFORE HANS BLINKED.
NEVER FORGET ALL 20 HIJACKERS SPOKE ARABIC AND CAME FROM THE LAND OF JIHAD OIL PRICES.
MCCAIN CAN TAKE THE PAIN. HE IS TRIED AND PROVEN.
WHAT GOOD IS YOUR 401K WHEN YOUR NATION IS OUT OF BUSINESS? YOU WANT A FIGHTER PILOT OR A TRAINEE
WHO SAYS WHEN I’M WITH MY GENERALS.
TAKE ME TO THE PROM MOMMY.
http://WWW.BLOGTALKRADIO.COM
SOAP
http://WWW.CAPTAINSBLOG.US
HERE IS A LITTLE DEJAVU REVIEW.
http://animoto.com/play/SRgz5QMmQxcvL5VALtTaBA
I am with Tom above..people have got to wake up and REALIZE the real Democrats ARE NO MORE, and have not been for years..and the REpublicans,,going along to get along and have been infested with the Commie’s too. Make a list of what has taken place under Republicans!!! And NO , people did not think Hitler was evil at first either..To say that men do NOT learn from History is a understatement..commie’s want complete control of you,,mind , body and soul !! Freedom is going so fast I guess most dumbed downs don’t see it , but we are all feeling it !!Take a look back at history and see how every ipire fell and why…you would think bright minded people would see…that freedom is going fast, and would see that all the promises are just lies..Gov in debt to over 9 trillion and growing…and so they have made people so desperate that they are looking for someone to give them handouts now…not happen ever !! It is too bad that Americans who all saw this coming would have stood up to be counted,,yet for all the talk and what most of us realize,,it is just talk while the commies continue..to do everthing ass backwards and it will be a no win for everyone..Islamic law,,it will be a terrible day. And look at the children all over America who believe them as they are brainwashed into thinking this is going to be so peacefull..NOT..It will get terrible because most do nothing..talk is cheap..we need action…are you going to let the 545 running this gov continue or are you all going to stand up and stop it all?????/
A consideration:
Obama has had many campaign-destroying events already, eg, attending a racist, anti-American church for a couple of decades, but somehow missing everything that Rev “GOD D—- AMERICA” had to say.
Interesting to note that Wright, who condemned “middle-class” values - and AIDS (I thought the “AIDS conspiracy” was supposed to be against gays! revisionist history?) - as a plot to eradicate blacks is now quite wealthy - our “progressive” (socialist) democrats also tend to be quite wealthy - and is now living in a mansion. Do as I say, not as I do?
But with the media firmly ensconced in Obama’s pocket, Obama has been the teflon candidate as several major problems with his campaign have simply gone away.
Because of Obama’s latest flip-flop (lie…and just one among many), he looks to have a huge financial advantage running up to the general election following the back to back party conventions.
A sports analogy: many great sports teams will “peak too early” in the season and then fade out of the picture before or during the play-offs. There’s a joke in NC about the UNC-Chapel Hill Tarheels: How do you know it’s spring? A: The birds are singing and the Heels are choking.
I suspect that McCain is all too aware of Obama’s ties to communists, both individuals and groups, and doesn’t want this to be yet another “one that got away.” (Americans take great pride in their aversion to being informed. Due to our public schools and politicized universities, the average American now has below average intelligence.)
I’m shocked that Hillary didn’t unearth a lot of this stuff with her infamously vicious and thorough oppo-research squad. What’s up with THAT? Maybe SHE will expose Obama just before the DNC convention and secure the nomination? I don’t put ANYTHING past either Clinton. The Clintons and their minions constitute an exclusive criminal class: rape, perjury, selling our nuclear secrets to China, Vince Foster’s “suicide,” and too many other incidents to mention.
Given the circumstances, if I were McCain, I would hold this back as an “October Surprise,” using his limited funding for a major exposure of the foregoing when Obama wouldn’t have time for the press to save him (and they couldn’t contradict the facts, only ignore them…as their audiences or readerships are diminishing as they have been for some time now), but the communist issue would be too big to ignore. And with the dems running on raising taxes while so many are suffering financial setbacks, ie, sheer lunacy, many will remember that we are electing a President and Commander-in-Chief of our country, not the captain of a debating panel.
The Rev Wright issue is now yesterday’s news, so we can only hope that some independent group will run a ton of 30-second ads featuring the wit and wisdom of the racist, anti-American preacher’s more hateful rhetoric. One can only wonder if the Black Muslim vote will surpass the Black Christian vote. (I wouldn’t bet a dime on it, one way or the other. Who knows?)
Released now, Chris Matthews would probably dismiss the evidence while his leg no doubt tingled away. Dana Milbank of the WASH POST has already done so, as noted in this newsletter. If this loudmouth, boorish partisan is allowed to moderate ANY debate (the few that Obama has the stones in which to participate), it would be a clear conflict of interest and a devious use of propaganda.
If McCain simply lets this particular issue slide by, he’s simply too stupid to be president. On the other hand, if he’s keeping his powder dry for said “October Surprise,” this would be a shrewd move: hit Obama when it’s too late for this communist mole to “articulate” his way out of an untenable position.
Just a thought.
God bless America. We can sure use Your help!
(I respect the freedom of speech as well as religious expression for atheists and those who have bizarre religious beliefs, but revere my right to ignore what they have to say, except for the entertainment value…much like the Three Stooges.)
Oh, and a word of respectful remembrance for my former Senator, Jesse Helms, who died on the Fourth of July, as did Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, Jr.
What about thinking outside the box and voting for a third candidate—such as Chuck Baldwin? Why go with the mainstream and just rely on two candidates—which both will lead us down to the sewer in the end—one in the fast lane and the other a little slower, but leading in the same direction.
Just a thought…
Somebody tell me… did I hear right the other day that Ron Paul was for decriminalizing marijuana?
PATRIOT - please don’t “throw away your vote.” I get fed up, too, and think I’ll cast a protest vote, but then the good side loses and the Obamassiah side wins - and what’s this from Allen? Ron Paul is for decriminalizing marijuana? I thought he’s an M.D. - I’ve never smoked that stuff, but if Obamassiah is elected, I’ll be forced in desperation to INHALE and EAT the stuff, criminalized or decriminalized! Has anyone heard/read anything by Matt Drudge lately? He seems to have lost all common sense, let alone just plain ordinary sense! I’m voting for McCain, Folks - at least he’s a loyal American with the interests of the USA as his life’s work!
HappyPick:
I know my question was off track from the subject—sorry! But I can tell you this, Obama IS a Commie. Despite the MSM’s overt hypocrisy of “labeling” anyone who calls a Communist a “McCarthyist ideologue/fearmonger/whatever”, this MUST get out to the wishy-washy political “middle”. I challenge each of you to forward this very blog of Cliff’s to 10—I literally mean TEN PEOPLE. If indeed there are 5000 who read Cliff’s blogs, and everyone of you forward it to 10 people, heck, that’s 50,000 people! Dudes, that’s how the leftists work. Geez, they “invented the internet and the fax machine” and all those fancy sounding grass-roots organizations that have Orwellian double-speak titles “The Center for…”, or “The—- Institute”, or fancy Acronyms like “ACORN” or titles that have veiled references to something innocuous or wholesome. CONSERVATIVES RISE UP!!! DON’T SIT ON YOUR COLLECTIVE ARSES THIS SUMMER, just because JSM is a political twirp (outside of defense issues). JSM is more influencial than the “maverick” the MSM has painted him to be. I mean, which one would we have more influence over—a hard-line bigotted, racist,crypto-Muslim Communista? Gimme a break. WAKE—FRAKING—UP!!!! Either B&*ch-slap yourselves into getting motivated, or wake up November 5th with a hammer and cycle replacing the field of stars in our flag. See you later on the battlefield of ideas and the hearts and minds of the American Public!!!
JSM is more easily influenced—that’s what I meant—sorry! Not get out there, dangit, and start ranting and raising heck about this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just in case any of you out there are considering not going to the booths to vote this year, consider this. What will happen if in the next election the candidate you wanted doesn’t make the primaries, nor the next, or even the one after that? When you and the thousands more begin to stay away from voting because of the dislike of any of the elected candiadates, there will be no more elected candidates. People like the SUPER DELEGATES or organizations like Move-on.org will be “appointing” who will be our leaders. We will no longer have a choice in the matter. So get out there and at least vote!!
I suspect there are many out there who believe our fears are unjustified and and just plain ‘ole nuts. But, hey, I’m afraid, and I’m not afraid to admit it. Most especially, I’m genuinely afraid for my country. Obamunism isn’t why I fought and why my comrades in arms died or were so horribly maimed.I suggest that all commenters do their level best to hit the airwaves and to deluge the newsprint with editorials. One a month should do it. I’ve already begun. I send an editorial into my local paper every 30 days. So far, so good. Make sure the editorials are well researched and that they don’t come across as emotional lunacy. We’ll leave that to the liberals. Check out my blog—up and running for about a month now—to view some recent editorials which have been published and some of my posts which, owing to their length, can’t be submitted for publishing as editorials. http://opinerlog.blgspot.com/. Your comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. But, again, PLEASE do one editorial a month. If you can change just one mind out there, or just cause some liberal loon to step back into reality, then it’s well-wroth the effort.
Thank you for the solid contribution you make to Conservative causes. We are grateful you get it, even if Drudge does not.
I believe that Obama my get in office which is why Fox, Drudge, and others are toning it down. They’re fearful of what could happen to their little world in the MSM.
The pundits and the non-discerning have blown the primary and left us socialists. What’s the difference between Mugabe physically killing his opponents support vs our media misrepresenting a candidate’s views.
I’ve been greatly disappointed in most if not all of the pundits treatment of Dr. Paul. Too bad they all painted the rest of us into a corner with only a couple of liberals to vote into office.
It stinks and I don’t like it. Something needs to be done at the convention. Otherwise I’m going to have to vote third party.
I thank you for your straight talk on the issues.
Voting for a third-party candidate with no chance whatsoever of winning is a bit like going to the beach in the middle of a thunderstorm: utterly pointless and rather stupid.
Henry Clay is noted mainly for saying, “I’d rather be right than president.”
I hope that McCain will not take the attitude “I’d rather be a maverick than president.”
It’s about time for McCain to start showing a little response to those whose votes he so desperately needs. Changing his position on drilling in ANWR would be a great place to start. (Obama simply has no room to talk about flip-flops as McCain could run commercials focusing on the many flip-flops Obama has already made and is still making, eg, “refining” his position on Iraq after “FINALLY!” visiting the place.)
Obama makes flip-flopping former champion John Kerry look like a paragon of integrity. (Which he isn’t by any wild stretch. He’s an arrogant, pseudo-intellectual gigolo.)
Those who plan to vote for a third-party losing candidate while Obama takes the White House should brace themselves for being referred to as “A-hole” by any who know them and how they did something so utterly stupid.
I’m not thrilled with McCain, but neither am I thrilled with driving in the rain. However, sometimes we simply have to prioritize. There may be some compelling reason to drive in the rain. There is no good reason to vote for a “3% of the vote” third-party candidate, especially if Pres Obama is the result.
Grow up…or shut up. If you can’t pull off the first option, then you have no reason to express an opinion at all, which simply demonstrates that you couldn’t pull off the first. Talk to a tree.
Third-party supporters are screwballs. But I mean that in the nicest possible way.
;>)
Hey Voxoreason, voting for the medias’ baby is not my preference either. The reason being is because he will not abide by the Constitution. The people chose socialism in the primaries. Now its just a matter of how fast the train will go over the cliff.
You stated “I hope”. You’re stuck with voting for someone you don’t even know how he’ll decide next month on an issue. That is just what I don’t want. McCain and Obama for sure will both just drag this country into more socialism. It will not be my fault but rather because of people such as Voxoreason who may have voted for the same old NeoCon Republicans such as Bush. I’m very thankfull I can say that I didn’t vote for Bush and yet he got in office over Kerry. Seems to not have mattered much. Who should I blame for that one? Of course who the people put in office will reflect the true character of the people. There are many who will not vote because they see the problem. I’m voting for principle over politics.
There was a principled Republican running for office, others didn’t want him or were duped by the pundits. I’m not lowering my standards to vote some socialist such as McCain or worse Obama into the office, others will have to do that. Maybe next time we’ll get someone more principled to select from, but I doubt it. Alot of education has to happen first.
If you desire socialism and global warming extortion from McCain then go stain your vote with unprincipled promises and lies. If he doesn’t get into office then I guess he wasn’t the best man for the task! It appears to be that Dole thing all over again. They thought he was the best choice too. Dah.
You’ll be blamed for that not I. The problem is with those voting “for” the candidates Obama or McCain. You probably should blame yourself for the canidate McCain who can’t even articulate his principles. You want to vote in favor of another immigration failure in McCain then go ahead. Is he really who you want to head up immigration reform? I don’t want to be responsible for either of these men in office, got it? People such as Mr. Voxoreason are the problem and are sending us down the road to surfdom. I’m trying not to.
Go ahead and vote your conscience, I will too. The reason my candidate won’t get in office is because of people like you can’t see the right in voting for him. Sound like a familiar reason?
The name calling and the insults from Voxoreason are just an example of what the problems are in these fine United States. Arrogance begets pridefulness. Tell me what comes next? The fall of course. I’ll be hopefully waiting to pick up the pieces.
Tis a shame, but unfortunately thats not even possible for the people to experience anymore I fear.
In my opinion, if the evidence truly does exist that allegedly captures Michelle Obama degrading the white race by utilizing the white racial slur, then I would guess that whoever has this evidence, no doubt, is waiting for the most opportune time to release it, which would be sometime in mid to late October. There would be such a fire storm over those comments that Obama wouldn’t have time to counteract it in just a few weeks. Obama took a real hit in the pols in the not too distant past with the controvery over his former pastor, but after a long passage of time, the average Obama supporter, with an apparent short term memory, forgot all about it, so that allowed Obama to bounce back in the pols, which is why releasing this video or audio on Michelle wouldn’t be too productive, if released at this time.
In respect for finding a common turf.
Voxoreason stated his respect for Sen Helms…
“Oh, and a word of respectful remembrance for my former Senator, Jesse Helms, who died on the Fourth of July, as did Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, Jr.”
I have great respect for Sen. Helms especially for his stonewalling the U.S from ratifying the “U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child”.
Love him for that greatly.
Yeah the CPUSA claims not to endorse Obama while endorsing him.
Typical leftwing subterfuge…
The presidential candidates are only the first 2 choices on your ballots, folks. While presidents get blamed for all problems, 99.99% of all problems are created by Congress and your state and local legislators.
I used to think we needed term limits on Congress, but I now think that having a bunch of rookies running the place would be a bigger mistake. The only solution to this quandary is for voters to examine the down-ticket candidates and the records of the incumbent Congressional representatives and choose those who represent the best interests of ALL the people most effectively.
If your representatives do not get their jobs done, vote them OUT!
If your representatives say their priority is to get as much federal pork as possible for their constituents, vote them OUT!
If your representatives have the faintest whiff of corruption and backroom dealing with special interests, vote them OUT!
If your representatives say the government cannot balance its budget without raising taxes, vote them OUT!
Make your representatives get the messages: “Laissez nous fair! (Let us alone!) Get off our backs!”
It is your sacred civic duty to inform yourselves about your representatives and vote only for those who best represent the needs of the whole NATION and govern with the lightest hand possible.
It is your sacred privilege to accept the fact that you alone are responsible for your well-being and happiness. Demanding your well-being from the government makes your a serf or slave to politicians when their proper role is YOUR serf or slave!
Please bear in mind that the dems took control of the House and Senate much like Obama is running for president: by lying! (I note that Comrade Pelosi is accusing of “covering up” the climate change - note: no longer “global warming” - which shouldn’t be too difficult as it’s a hoax. The earth hasn’t heated up in the last 10 years.)
Nancy “I’m the most powerful woman in the country” Pelosi and Harry “Free tickets to a Vegas boxing match? YES!” Reid have dragged Congress to not only a record low approval rating of 9%, but at the same time tying the record at 52% of Americans who think they’re doing a “poor” job.
Anyone who doesn’t consider the last two years of the House and Senate inactivity (beyond blocking the republicans from having input at every opportunity; bi-partisanship? hilarious!) to have constituted a “do-nothing” Congress simply isn’t paying attention. The forementioned polls indicate that at least SOME people are paying attention!
Obama? Only a lunatic could take this arse-wipe seriously. Now he wonders how he can get the support of the troops! (Dropping out of the race would be a good start.)
But, as always, we have to choose between the lesser of two evils, except for the third-party fruitcakes who use non-words such as “alot.” (If you can’t have “alot” of something, mightn’t you have “alittle” of something? Of course not! The teachers’ unions are ruining our schools, while their officers receive a king’s ransome in salaries and act as a subsidiary of the DNC.)
But to end on a bright note: I am very impressed with some of the posts and, moreover, conversations taking place in response to the expository articles on this site.
;>)
smergy:
>>You’re stuck with voting for someone you don’t even know how he’ll decide next month on an issue.
moi: As opposed to someone whose flip-flops come hours or days apart? (Oh, you needed an “and” following “someone” in your quote above.)
Over and out. No further responses from me, so hit me with your best shot. Might be amusing. I doubt it.
;>)
The CPUSA, as I understand it, generally opposes war-mongering thugs like the NeoConservatives, so it’s not surprising that they’d vote for Obama.
Good show Tenstring!!!!
There’s lots of peace-loving CPUSA members. The alumni are full of peace activists like:
Whittaker Chambers
Alger Hiss
Rudy Baker
J. Peters
Lee Pressman
Jacob Golos
Elizabeth Bentley
Louis Budenz
Julius and Ethel Rosenberg
All in the payroll of Stalin and the Soviet Union!
I bet they would all vote for Obama!!!!!!
I knew from the get go that Obama was a underqualified, far leftist FRAUD! What are people thinking that vote for this idiot?!? McCain had better get going on picking a strong VP (please pick Gov. Mitt Romney!) or he’s done. The liberal media will continue to prop up the victory for Pres. Obama—I detest the sound of that! McCain/ROMNEY!!!
You’re on to something, April. McCain/Romney it should be.
Re Barack’s CPUSA, Socialist Party, et. al connections,I honestly don’t think it matters to most voters. Incredible though that reality may be, the Iraq War, which I still support, and the housing bubble deflation, over which poor Bush had no control at all, the energy crisis, which can be more accurately blamed on liberal obstructionism, and the fact that, historically, it’s a “Democrat year” all conspire to ensure a socialist, aka Obama, takeover this year. Am I scared? You bet I am. All I can tell commenters is to make every effort to get the word out. Write an editorial each month to your local paper to underscore—accurately and rationally—Obama’s positions and checkered background. God-willing, enough folks will pay attention to make a difference. But, quite honestly, I am deeply worried for my country. If you folks have time, check out my blog: http://opinerlog.blogspot.com/. Your input would be a blessing. But, please get the word out about Obama and the far left takeover of the once venerable Democrat Party.
In light of the mass murder 9/11 obviously being the handiwork US military intelligence and a psyop facilitated by the media, doesn’t anyone find it curious how a junior senator from Chicago appears as candidate for President bearing the namesake of both Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden?
...never mind that Senator Obama is also the illegitimate son of two documented communists (apparently a whole family of them), and even suspected (with plenty of circumstantial evidence) of being a homosexual crackhead. All this comes more clearly into focus with Osama, err, Obama telling AIPAC recently that American interests are secondary to the needs of Israel.
What’s really going on?
remember cliff:
it’s shiny side out.
then the rays can’t get through.
you are an assclown of phenomenal proportion.
really.
you should be proud.
your family and friends?
well… not so much.
[pssst: you embarrass them]
What’s the big deal about Communists? Who cares about them anymore? Is he a Flat Earther too? You people are getting upset over nonsense.
Communists at the time were in the pay of Moscow, had stolen the atom bomb plans and were involved in major esponiage against our country.
Communists today have reworked themselves since the fall of their patron, the Soviet Union. They now consider themselves to be true democrats.
Evey major “antiwar” protest has at least one or more Communist or Communist affiliated group involved in its planning. Including groups like ANSWER, CodePink, Young Communist League, Workers World Party, Revolutionary Communist Party, etc…
World Communists feed off of Venezuelan oil money and have corrupted the democratic processes of a large portion of Latin America.
Bury your head in the sand at your own risk.
Being worried about the U.S. Presidency being occupied by a Communist is, let me get this right, NONSENSE? And if he still believes in a flat earth despite scientific facts to the contrary, that’s nothing to worry about either?
My friend, I don’t want to live in your parallel universe. You’re scarier than Obama is.
Finally, no one is saying categorically that he’s a Communist or a race-centric Marxist. Thoughtful voters are concerned about his associations in that regard,and the real possibility that he has been influenced by them: Ayers and Dohrn, domestic terrorists; Frank Marshall Davis, a Communist and Obama’s father-figure and mentor from 1975-1979; his close friendship with Rev. Wright, a virulent Black Liberation Theology adherent; his links with the Democratic Socialists of America; and, lastly, his endorsements from the Communist Party USA, Hamas, Move-On.org. If all of this doesn’t concern you, your ideology has overriden your commonsense. Wake up and fly right, Bill.
Jim,
I dont think that Obama is a Communist, but he certainly enjoys their backing.
The sad thing is that he uses them and they are using him. This is an alliance of convenience and when they are through using each other, they will both discard one another in an ugly separation.
>>What’s the big deal about Communists?
Well, for the history-challenged such as yourself, you make light of Communists, but the term Nazi has been applied to republicans and especially conservatives for years.
But let’s take a look at the score card:
In the Nazis’ death count, the figure that everyone “knows” is 6 million Jews were killed. Try doubling that to account for gays, gypsies, and others who didn’t qualify for the master race. It’s hard to get hard figures for this, so let’s go with 12 million victims of the Nazis in the 20th Century (some claim it was 13 mill total, so I’m being conservative).
Okay, from what I’ve been able to discover, Russian killed about 20 million people (conservative estimate, including the starvation of farmers that the NY TIMES reported in a total distortion of the facts…and the guy who did the cover up reporting and received a Pulitzer Prize for doing so was Walter Duranty; google on THAT!) and the Chinese killed about 100 million (conservative estimate), so we get over 100 million murders (conservative estimate as you’ll note in my math) by the Russian and Chinese Communists in the 20th Century.
So, even using admittedly conservative figures, the Communists killed about 10 times as many of their own citizens as did Nazi Germany…and probably at least as many as 6 million Jews.
BTW, interesting fact: George Orwell, author of the classics 1984 and Animal Farm, was a socialist…but was disgusted by the way it was practiced in the real world, and described it in these two books which every American should read, along with Atlas Shrugged. (BTW, Atlas Shrugged is where John Galt got his alias from the tagline: Who is John Galt?)
The Left in America want to make us a Communist nation.
Real Americans who are familiar with our history (warts and all), our Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution, have no interest in overturning our heritage which has resulted in the success of our great experiment in democracy.
While those who are 18 can vote, few have the knowledge or experience to cast a meaningful vote.
I am expecting America to become a Communist nation about the same time as all the baby boomers retire and Social Security (which consists of IOUs in a file drawer in VA, NOT saved in cash or invested to ensure future solvency) goes totally bust. Guess they’ll tell us, “Sorry, nothing we could do about it.”
(Actually, W’s soc sec reform would have allowed individuals to control a part of their soc sec payments, so blacks who invested wisely would be able to leave something to their families. Blacks are the biggest victims of soc sec as they tend to die before the age of retirement. Money left for families: $0. This is okay with democrats, but not being a racist, I feel like blacks deserve better for making an effort in life.)
There’s a cure for ignorance, eg, yours, and that’s information and learning. We’re all ignorant (which is simply not knowing something or everything) in some respect, so we either seek the cure, realize our limitations and work to overcome them (or live with them in the case of medical conditions/problems), or settle for stupidity, for which there is no cure as stupidity is ignorance with a sense of pride, eg, your typical Obama supporter. (Won’t defend McCain, whom I don’t care for, but I will vote for him as the lesser of two evils.)
Teachers unions exist to enrich themselves, subsidize and control the dem party, and ruin our schools with their “experiments” while NOT teaching our children math, English, history, and basic economics, leading to the mass production of ignorant voters.
If you ever go overseas and visit a former Communist country, ask anyone there who lived through it and speaks English what’s the big deal about Communism. Or find one of them who has moved to America. I’ve talked with several, and they were NOT dismissive of Communism as insignificant.
Another kudo is due Cliff Kincaid for NOT deleting critical comments to his blog, unlike his strange bedfellow, Alan Maki.
In a blatant misappropriation of Obama campaign resources, “communist” blogger Alan Maki is colluding with “conservative” blogger Cliff Kincaid in a disinformation campaign designed to portray Barack Obama as communist-influenced. Accuracy In Media’s Kincaid has been running this redbaiting campaign since he published “Obama’s Communist Mentor” in February 2008, in which Kincaid exaggerated the influence of “communist” Frank Marshall Davis (1905-1987) on teenage Obama. “Frank” was mentioned in Obama’s “Dreams From My Father.’
On July 3, 2008, Kincaid published “Communist Party Backs Obama,” based on Alan Maki’s deceptive blog on the my.barackobama.com website. Kincaid extensively quotes Maki based on the Frank Marshall Davis connection:
“Meanwhile, admitted CPUSA member Alan Maki, writing on the official Barack Obama website, in the “community blogs” section under an “Obama 08” banner, has mentioned the unmentionable. That is the role of CPUSA member Frank Marshall Davis in mentoring Obama during his formative high school years in Hawaii.”
“Although fine print at the bottom of the page says that “Content on blogs in My.BarackObama represents the opinions of community members and in no way should be interpreted as endorsed or approved by the campaign,” the information provided by Maki is deadly confirmation that a hard-core CPUSA member played a key role in helping raise Obama. It is a story that most media, including some “conservative” news outlets, have shied away from.”
“Announcing the “Frank Marshall Davis roundtable for change” on the Obama website, Maki, a Democratic Party activist and casino worker organizer, explained, “Reading Barack Obama’s book I learned about his mentor, Frank Marshall Davis.” He went on, “Of course, as we all know, Frank Marshall Davis was a Communist and he had a very good understanding of the underlying source of problems which all too often goes unstated and unchallenged and remains hidden because of the high fear-factor level in this country; I am referring to capitalism―a thoroughly rotten system. Frank Marshall Davis also understood through his thorough studies of the situation that socialism provided the only workable alternative to capitalism.”
Saying that he has been “active in the Minnesota DFL and the Democratic Party most of my life,” Maki still wants to know about the specifics of the “change” Obama is promising.”
Maki goes on to say, “There really isn’t much for us to learn about ‘change’ from Obama, but there is quite a bit to be gleaned from the writings of Frank Marshall Davis and I thank Barack Obama for bringing him to my attention… now I can say that Frank Marshall Davis is in many ways my mentor, too.”
On July 14 Kincaid confirmed that Alan Maki is not an Obama supporter, thus rendering his my.barackobama.com blog fraudulent. Kincaid published “Was Jesse Jackson a Media Tool for Barack Obama” on the Post Chronicle website. A partial quote:
“Veteran Communist and Democratic Party activist Alan Maki tells me that, despite announcing a Frank Marshall Davis discussion group on an official Obama community blog website, he wants it known far and wide that he doesn’t support the candidate and wouldn’t walk across the street to vote for him. Maki, an organizer of casino workers in Minnesota, thinks Obama and McCain are too close to Big Business, including the casino industry.”
As of July 15, Kincaid’s “Communist Party Backs Obama” article, based on the fraudulent Alan Maki blog, now has over 58,000 Yahoo Search hits.
I challenged Maki’s characterization of my father, Frank Marshall Davis, in the comments of his post. I also challenged his association with Cliff Kincaid, and especially his use of the term “mentor” because it has been used extensively by Kincaid’s redbaiting campaign.
Unable to answer my questions, Alan Maki suddenly accused me of engaging in a “racist, anti-Semitic hate campaign,” and deleted my (and other) critical comments. He fraudulently attributed their removal as being “Deleted by admin,” but contradicted himself in his July 14 post by declaring “I am deleting all of your entries.” He thereby implicated my.barackobama.com website administration in this deception.
Fortunately, I saved the first few comments, but not the last, enabling verification that these are in no way part of a “racist, anti-Semitic hate campaign.” Website administration for my.barackobama should have access to the full text of the deleted comments.
These are some of the deleted comments that Maki characterizes as part of a “racist, anti-Semitic hate campaign:
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By Kaleokualoha Jul 11th 2008 at 12:10 am EDT
I am Mark Kaleokualoha Davis, son of Frank Marshall Davis. I take great exception to your remarks. He was not a communist. Neither was he Obama’s “mentor.” This is disinformation spewed by conservatives such as Cliff Kincaid, from “Accuracy In Media” (AIM). From the tone and content of your post, I suspect that you are actually a shill for Kincaid’s disinformation campaign, operating under a “false flag.” For an analysis of this campaign, I invite readers to visit by blog at Link
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By Nell Jul 11th 2008 at 12:40 pm EDT
I agree with Mark that Mr. Maki sounds suspiciously like a shill for the campaign led by Cliff Kincaid and his surrogates to paint Sen. Obama as a Marxist based, in part, on his childhood/adolescent association with journalist, poet, and social/labor activist, Frank Marshall Davis. From my reading of Mr. Davis’s works, it is clear that he both sympathized with the working class and sometimes vehemently criticized the excesses of “robber baron” capitalism, but there is no proof that he was a Communist or that he considered capitalism a “thoroughly rotten system.” In fact, for part of his life, he was an entrepreneurial small businessman himself.
It is curious that excerpts from Mr. Maki’s blog entry are already being quoted by Kincaid on his website as “proof” of both Davis’s ties to the Communist party and Obama’s Marxist leanings as a result of guilt by association
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By Alan L. Maki Jul 11th 2008 at 10:29 pm EDT
First of all, you are refuting everything in both “Livin’ the Blues; Memoirs of a Black Journalist and Poet” and “The Writings of Frank Marshall Davis; A Voice Of the Black Press.”
Let me get this straight, you are disowning everything Frank Marshall Davis wrote.
Who cares about the use of the term “mentor?”
Look in any dictionary, you are quibbling about terms that mean the same no matter who uses them.
Quite frankly speaking, I wonder if you are who you say you are or if some party hack isn’t up to no good here.
I think if you were really who you say you are you would call me: 218-386-2432.
How come you haven’t taken issue with the editor of the books, John Edgar Tidwell and the Publishers, University of Wisconsin Press and University Press of Mississippi.
I think you should contact the editor and publishers and have them either stand behind what has been written or disown it… as you are fully aware, IF YOU HAVE EVER READ either of the two books, the only thing I have done is quote the books and say the same thing the editor has stated.
I call to your attention the article Frank Marshall Davis wrote about one of the most courageous and outstanding lawyers and politicians of the 20th Century, the title: Ben and the Reds, page 94, “The Writings of Frank Marshall Davis.
Now, maybe you are who you say you are, maybe you are not… no matter who you are, you are very dishonest in what you present here; and, in what you say about me without any foundation what-so-ever.
What you are doing is giving the bigots blood to fuel their hate campaign based upon the two most divisive and dirtiest tactics: racism and anti-communism.
What you are saying is that people don’t have the democratic right to be communists or associate with communists.
If there is one thing Frank Marshall Davis makes clear is that he had the utmost respect for Communists because of the way Communists fight for the rights of working people and against racism.
Frank Marshall Davis was entitled to his political views—- there is no doubt he joined the ranks of members of the Communist Party USA along with his very good friends Benjamin Davis and Paul Robeson… for you to deny this is cowardly, shameful and disgusting.
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By Alan L. Maki Jul 11th 2008 at 11:16 pm EDT
Nell and Mark… I have an idea; why don’t we let Barack Obama tell us what he thinks of the writings of Frank Marshall Davis… he is the one that brought all of this up in the first place.
While Barack Obama is at it, perhaps he can answer the questions I have raised which so many people are awaiting answers to.
I find it very interesting that you would try to impugn my motives without responding to one single thing I have written which is directed towards establishing “Frank Marshall Davis Rountables for Change” all over this country.
Is there something wrong with people reading Frank Marshall Davis’ ideas in these books and discussing these ideas to see what we might pick up from his writings that will help us in the struggles against racism, for peace and social and economic justice?
What is this, only Barack Obama is entitled to Frank Marshall Davis’ wisdom and insight?
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By Kaleokualoha Yesterday at 6:11 pm EDT
You have asked a number of questions that I shall address separately:
YOU WROTE: “First of all, you are refuting everything in both “Livin’ the Blues; Memoirs of a Black Journalist and Poet” and “The Writings of Frank Marshall Davis; A Voice Of the Black Press.”
Let me get this straight, you are disowning everything Frank Marshall Davis wrote.
ANSWER: I am neither “refuting everything” nor “disowning everything.” I am, however, refuting your contention that he was a “communist” or Obama’s “mentor.” If you re-read my comment, you will find that is exactly what I wrote. These contentions serve to exaggerate both his radical background and influence over Obama, in order to exaggerate Obama’s radical values. This is dishonesty in action by the conservative blogosphere, aided and abetted by you.
It is an unsubstantiated accusation that he was a communist, That is the message of the disinformation campaign run by AIM’s Cliff Kincaid, and wittingly (or unwittingly) supported by you. With you, I believe Kincaid may have added a “Fourth Musketeer” to his disinformation crusade, joining Trevor Loudon and Bill Steigerwald. Steigerwald’s “interview” with Kincaid claimed that Davis was a “lifelong member of the Communist Party USA.
He was sympathetic to communists, but that does not make him a communist. He published in their media, but that doesn’t make him a communist. He was named (“accused,” identified,” “confirmed, etc.) as a member by various third parties, but neither the CPUSA nor Davis confirmed his membership. All supplied evidence of his membership is circumstantial. . Repeating a false statement doesn’t make it true.
In fact, the most incriminating evidence from either of them is weak indeed: Gerald Horne’s comment, recent reported by Cliff Kincaid, that Davis “was certainly in the orbit of the CP – if not a member”.
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By Kaleokualoha Yesterday at 6:14 pm EDT
To continue (#2):
Yes, he was involved in the web of communist-affiliated organizations. Kincaid makes much of the fact that Davis was subpoenaed before the Senate Internal Security Committee on November 27, 1956. He took the Fifth Amendment as was his right under the Constitution but issued a statement on the hearing conducted by Sen. James Eastland of Mississippi. In part, Davis said:
“”I do not like being kicked around, nor do I like to see other people get kicked around. For 30 years as a working newspaperman I have fought for civil rights. In this battle for my rights as a Negro American, I have accepted the aid and support of any man of good will who is willing to fight beside me. I do not care about his color, religion or politics. When the octopus of prejudice crushes me with his tentacles, I will welcome the help of the devil himself in order to get loose.”
If you consider a communist sympathizer to be “communist,” then he may qualify by that standard. If you consider a Soviet sympathizer, even during WWII, then he may qualify by that standard. But if you use the more relevant standard of advocating the replacement of capitalism with communism, then he does NOT qualify.
I challenge you, Cliff Kincaid, and everyone else to produce one shred of his writing that states that he believes the United States should be communist. THAT, my friend, is the true test of an American Communist! Misguided inferences and circumstantial evidence do not qualify.
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By Kaleokualoha Yesterday at 6:26 pm EDT
Continued (#3)
YOU WROTE:
What you are saying is that people don’t have the democratic right to be communists or associate with communists.
ANSWER:
Negative. That is another unsubstantiated inference. Of course people have the democratic right to be communists and associate with communists. That was not the issue. The issue is if Frank Marshall Davis actually was a communist, not the rights of anyone. No more red herrings, please.
A “paranoid” personality is characterized by suspicion and distrust of others and a tendency to look for hidden meaning behind other people’s actions.
YOU WROTE:
I find it very interesting that you would try to impugn my motives without responding to one single thing I have written which is directed towards establishing “Frank Marshall Davis Rountables for Change” all over this country.
ANSWER: I did not respond to your “Rountable” concept because I did not want to insult your intelligence. Now I WILL say it: Communism is an asinine concept for any society larger than a relatively few members because of a fatal flaw: it ignores human nature. People require motivation from personal relationships or material incentives. Personal relationships provide motivation in small communes, but coercion or material incentive is required in larger economies. Capitalism is by FAR the most efficient system for providing the greatest good for the greatest number.
With appropriate regulation in a mixed economy to restrict excesses, capitalism provides the incentive for people to contribute. Adam Smith was right. Both the Russians and Chinese belatedly recognized the value of material incentives. Only fools cannot see the light.
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By Alan L. Maki Yesterday at 8:09 pm EDT
Usually the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree… in this case Mark, if you are who you say you are… the apple tree must have been planted on the side of a very long steep hill because it rolled quite a ways away to rot.
I would suggest that you take up your concerns with Barack Obama who first brought Frank Marshall Davis to our attention.
Next, get in touch with the editor and publisher and take your concerns to them.
I do find it interesting your post comes from Las Vagas, Nevada… the home of Brownstein/Hyatt/Farber/Schrec k which has been engaged in a vicious smear campaign against me and casino workers trying to organize.
Mark, my friend… you appear to be the real “shill.”
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By Kaleokualoha Yesterday at 9:46 pm EDT
Sir, I have a few questions for you:
1. How did Barack Obama “first” bring Frank Marshall Davis to your attention? He was only mentioned as “Frank” in Obama’s book. His connection with Obama first received widespread attention in the conservative blogs written by Trevor Loudon and Cliff Kincaid, who FIRST claimed he was Obama’s “mentor.”
2. What is your relationship with Cliff Kincaid? In one of his recent columns, titled “Communist Party Backs Obama,” he cites a telephone conversation with YOU! (See Link He quotes YOUR blog on Obama’s website. He posts “information provided by Maki is deadly confirmation that a hard-core CPUSA member played a key role in helping raise Obama.” Evidently, you are a tool of his disinformation campaign.
3. Your question “Who cares about the use of the term “mentor?” is rather disingenuous. It is important because it seems to have first appeared in the conservative blogosphere, falsely attributed to a CPUSA figure. For a person supposedly at odds with conservative values, you seem to have easily adopted their terminology. Did you adopt it from Kincaid’s characterization of my father as “Obama’s Communist Mentor,” or did you think of it yourself?
If you truly doubt my identify, sir, visit Las Vegas. I can prove it with a birth certificate, family photographs, and a lesson you may not soon forget. I am defending my family honor. Cliff Kincaid is a professional advocate for conservative causes, conducting a disinformation campaign in the highest traditions of Soviet KGB “active measures.” You, sir, are but a sheep in wolf’s clothing.
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By Kaleokualoha Yesterday at 11:13 pm EDT
Alan,
If you decide to visit Las Vegas, I believe that a couple of Frank Marshall Davis’s grandsons might also volunteer to help you understand our family tree. They would have to fly in from Hawaii, so they might be a bit cranky. Please advise if such clarification is necessary. I assure you that after your visit, no further validation would be necessary.
Mark,
A lot of detail, but you overlook that there really are justifiable and substantial concerns about BHO’s, shall we say, “extremely unique” associations—not just Frank Marshall Davis, a black poet/Marxist from everything I’ve read. Also, you conveniently omit the fact that as of a few weeks ago, the Communist Party USA and Hamas openly supported BHO’s bid for the Presidency. Whether they are as open about it now is anoher matter. Being a history wonk, I am hardpressed to find a President or presidential wannabe such a disturbing background. I don’t think it’s anything a thoughtful American can responsibly overlook. Your lengthy commentary does convince me that my fears are misplaced. Think about it.
Jim,
Thanks for your candor. I agree that his character should be closely scrutinized. My hope is that it is examined through the lens of unbiased objectivity, much like a District Attorney should examine a suspect. When an ostensible advocate for “fairness, balance and accuracy in news reporting,” such as AIM’s Cliff Kincaid, STACKS the evidence instead, then it is a cause for concern.
When D.A. Nifong stacked the evidence against the Duke Lacrosse players, he acted more like a defense attorney who is under no obligation for “fairness, balance and accuracy.” When Kincaid claims that the Obama website blog of only one CPUSA member is evidence that the “Communist Party Supports Obama,” then the veracity of Kincaid’s other claims should also be examined. When this same CPUSA member explicitly rejects Obama, deletes criticism from his blog with false accusations, adopts right-wing terminology (e.g., “mentor”), and is extensively quoted by Kincaid, then his bona fides should also be examined.
Kincaid wasn’t my initial source re CPUSA, Hamas endorsements. But the bottom line, Mark, is that owing to some very questionable, indeed disturbing, associations over the years Obama’s character is and should necessarily be in very serious question. For a presidential candidate, such associations and endorsements are unprecedented and, frankly, more than of passing concern to any objective observer.
I look forward to Kincaid’s judicious and well-researched response to your comprehensive commentary. It’s helpful to have both sides—in equivalent detail. I sure hope he or someone with the necessary cred is willing to respond accordingly. With three jobs, I just don’t have the time to conduct that level of research.
But, yup. Call me a crazy ‘ole coot, but I’m still very, very worried.
I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for Kincaid’s judicious and well-researched response. I have been challenging his assertions throughout the blogosphere since May, without any response. The heart of a well-designed disinformation campaign is repetition, which allows the survival of deliberate misrepresentation in the face of irrefutable evidence.
Based on my 1989 deception analysis training from the C.I.A. as an Air Force Intelligence Officer, I recently completed a broader overview of the Obama redbaiting campaign, as it pertains to Frank Marshall Davis, and posted the results here: http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/Kaleokualoha/gGxdvX
I guarantee you the Aryan Race, the American Nazi party and the guys who cheered when white, home grown, right-wing terrorists blew up the Oklahoma City Federal building will be supporting McCain. Does that mean McCain is a Nazi? Or that McCain is a white supremacist? Or that McCain supports white terrorist? NO. So what’s the point of this idiotic Kincaid post about “communists” supporting Obama? There is none. If this is the best the Obama haters can do, he’ll end up winning by an even larger margin than the polls already show him ahead. So keep dishing the stupid crap Cliffie, it helps Obama.
Michael,
I don’t think it’s “stupid crap” to suggest that Obama’s very unusual associations over the years should give one pause and encourage further objective scrutiny about those associations/friendships. In the absence of proof that Obama’s a Communist, no fair-minded person can reasonably believe that he is. I certainly don’t think he is. But, again, we can’t merely dismiss his unsavory and very questionable associations over the years, can we? To do so would be irresponsible and a disservice to ourselves and our country.
For Mark: I emailed AIM and asked them to request Mr. Kincaid to respond to your commentary above. I indicated that the loyal AIM readership is deserving of this service. That’s all I can do on that score. In the meantine, I will continue to research Obama’s associations for my own edification. One quick question for you: is the Frank which Obama mentions warmly in his book, Dreams of My Father, the same Frank Marshall Davis we’ve been discussing? And, if so, why didn’t Obama use Frank’s full name? Oversight? Literary license? Any idea as to his motive?
Let’s not all get carried away with this topic one way or the other. Let’s each do his/her best to objectively develop a clear picture of Obama’s background and of those who may have influenced his character and beliefs. In the final analysis, it is our own judgement about the man which will determine how we vote. At this juncture, my misgivings about hi—on many levels—are sufficiently serious to vote against him. For me anyway,the presidency is simply too sacred/important a job to merely overlook BHO’s disturbing associations, his litany of flip-flops and his condescending, haughty manner. Having closely watched him and read about him, I really neither trust nor like him.
A truly fair and balanced analysis, such as yours, often sounds the death knell for disinformation campaigns. Kudos!!
There is no doubt that Frank Marshall Davis is the “Frank” from Obama’s book. My sister, Beth, confirmed it to me. I addressed Kincaid’s issue of a cover-up in my Obama blog at http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/Kaleokualoha/gGxdvX#extended. I wrote:
- Disinformation 303: Kincaid claims “Obama had covered up the true identity of this “Frank.”
FACT: There was no “cover-up.” There cannot be a “cover-up” unless there is knowledge of a problem, an obligation to disclose the problem, and a failure to disclose the problem.
o Memoirs, more so than other autobiographical forms, often refer to casual acquaintances just by their first names. Obama did so with other names in this book.
o Obama was a teenager. There is no evidence that Obama even knew of any accusations that Davis was a communist, especially because Davis did not claim to be a communist.
o Davis was accused of being a communist long before Obama was born.
o Even if Obama knew of such accusations, he was under no obligation to disclose such accusations against a friend in a memoir.
Does this make sense?
Mark, your argument is about as solid as duck poop
“Does this make sense?” C’mon… just stop because you’ve lost your cred, man.
While you are at it, you may wish to ask Kincaid’s associate, Bill Steigerwald why he claims Davis was a “lifelong member of the Communist Party USA” in this interview with Kincaid: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/mostread/s_571431.html. When queried, Kincaid replied that HE didn’t say it. Someone else did.
FACTS: There is no proof, but some credible claims that he joined the CPUSA during WWII. Kincaid cites the claim by John Edgar Tidwell, a University of Kansas professor who has edited several books of Frank Marshall Davis’s writings, that Davis joined the party during WWII, and that he was a “closet” member. No evidence has ever been produced to support “lifelong membership.”
Kincaid builds on this disinformation to claim Davis was a Stalinist because he didn’t leave the CPUSA after the Hitler-Stalin Pact of 1939. Of COURSE he didn’t leave the CPUSA if he was not a member until years later!!
Steigerwald has been queried a number of times, but he appears to be stonewalling.
Allen:
How can you have a cover-up of something you don’t know? Are you ASSUMING Obama knew of decades-old accusations against Davis? Or do you KNOW that Obama knew of those accusations?
How can you have a cover-up of something you are under no obligation to disclose? Pray tell!
From Wikipedia:
“A cover-up is a term for the concealment of a scandal.”
There was no scandal regarding Frank when Obama wrote “Dreams From My Father.” Therefore, there was no cover-up. Does THIS make sense?
Also from Wikipedia:
When a scandal breaks, the discovery of an attempt to cover up or conceal the evidence of wrongdoing is often regarded as even more scandalous than the original deeds.
Initially a cover-up may require little effort; it will be carried out by those closely involved with the misdeed. Once some hint of the hidden matter starts to become known, the cover-up gradually draws all the top leadership, at least, of an organization into complicity in covering up a misdeed or even crime that may have originally been committed by a few of its members acting independently. This is often regarded as tacit approval of that behaviour.
It is likely that some cover-ups are successful although by definition this cannot be confirmed. Many fail, however, as more and more people are drawn in and the possibility of exposure makes potential accomplices fearful of supporting the cover-up and as loose ends that may never normally have been noticed start to stand out. As it spreads, the cover-up itself creates yet more suspicious circumstances.
The original misdeed being covered may be relatively minor, such as the ‘third-rate burglary’ which started the Watergate scandal, but the cover-up adds so many additional crimes (obstruction of justice, perjury, payoffs and bribes, in some cases suspicious suicides or outright murder) that the cover-up becomes much more serious than the original crime.
Cover-ups do not require the active manipulation of facts or circumstances. Arguably the most common form of cover-up is one of non-action. It is the conscious failure to release incriminating information by a third party. This “passive cover-up” is often justified by the motive of not wanting to embarrass the culprit or expose them to criminal prosecution or even the belief that the cover-up is justified by protecting the greater community from scandal. Yet, because of the passive cover-up, the misdeed often goes undiscovered and results in harm to others ensuing from its failure to be discovered. (In Catholic Moral Theology this would be considered the Sin of omission and a Mortal sin)
Real cover-ups are common enough, but any event which is not completely clear is likely to give rise to a thicket of conspiracy theories alleging covering up of sometimes the most weird and unlikely conspiracies.
A cover-up need not involve wrong-doing. In a number of countries the incidence of epidemics of contagious diseases is often covered up, possibly because of national pride rather than to forestall panic. This is often counter-productive, allowing the disease to spread unchecked when precautions could be taken. AIDS and avian influenza have been covered up in the first few years of the 21st century. In 2006 China has been more open about avian flu, which has helped in dealing with an epizootic.
Does THIS make sense?
Yes, it makes sense, Mark.
Questions for my own information: why have you taken it upon yourself to spend so much time and research on this particular topic? Are you an Obama supporter? Do you work for the Obama campaign either officially or unofficially? If not, you should be. Smart fella’. Just wondering why all the energy on this topic since there are so many seminal topics out there of genuine enormity you could also be researching.
Also, is it possible you know anything substantial, both negative and positive, about those pesky associations, friendships and how cordial they really were? Of course, we’re talking about Obama’s more “colorful” associations.
I have since discovered that Kincaid is not the only source of these attacks. There is a Bill Steigerwald, a John Edgar Tidwell and a Wes Vernon. Plan to check out their info. Though they may each be drawing from Kincaid’s information, from what I’ve gleaned so far, they seem to be saying that while they none of them believe Obama is, in fact, a Communist, that it is the responsibility of the press to subject Obama to more scrutiny especially as it relates to Davis, but also to Ayers, et. al. colorful players in BHO’s life. Not an unfair or excessive request, it seems to me. But, I suspect nothing will happen in that regard.
Where there’s smoke there may well be no fire, but that still remains to be seen. For me anyway. Better safe than sorry. I pray there’s nothing there. What a catastrophe if there were.
Since you seem to be quite knowledgeable, Mark,can you shed any light on BHO’s associations?
Man, you’ve really bogged me down on this one. Thanks.
Jim,
Guess this is sorta like coversing via email. Dunno about Bill Vernon, but I addressed both Tidwell and Steigerwald above.
Why do I spend so much time on this topic? Frank Marshall Davis is my father. I am defending the family honor.
I knew virtually nothing of Barack Obama until someone advised me of Kincaid’s “Obama’s Communist Mentor” column in May. My first ever blog comment was on May 20 (#35), where I asked “Where does the record show that Obama developed a close relationship, almost like a son with Davis?”
I was slightly miffed, because I never developed a very close relationship with very close relationship with him. It smelled like disinformation, and it was personal.
Sorry for the typo. For some reason this page rarely loads completely for me, and makes comment editing very difficult.
I really have no information on BHO’s other associations. Sorry.
Mark,
Much of your grievances have been supported by semantic word games. Obama does indeed admit that Frank Davis had a strong influence on him and Frank Davis was indeed a Communist.
The usage of “mentor” and “father figure” to describe the relationship are terms that could arguably be used, but is open to debate. Yet the usage does not constitute a gross distortion as you falsely assert.
Once again I hit the “submit” button too soon. Let me rephrase the above to make it clearer…
Mark,
Much of your grievances have been supported by semantic word games. In Obama’s memoir he does indeed admit that Frank Davis had a strong influence on him. Regardless, Davis was indeed a Communist.
The usage of “mentor” and “father figure” to describe the relationship are terms that could arguably be used, but is open to debate. Dont forget that Obama lost two fathers and his memoir which started this controversy prominently featured his feelings about his father (“Dreams of My Father”). So the usage does not constitute a gross distortion (disinformation) as you assert.
Mark,
Completely understood. Thank you for the explanation/clarification. I would do the same were I in your shoes.
If it’s any comfort, my issue is NOT—nor has it ever been—with Frank Marshall Davis. Not at all. My issue is and continues to be squarely with Barack Obama, a flimflam artist at best, a shameless prevaricator and huckster at worst. But, a frighteningly empty suit in any case.
Again, thanks very much for the clarification.
Thanks, Jim!
Freedom Now: The art of disinformation requires a series of small distortions, not gross distortions, that have the cumulative effect of conveying a false message. Compare this to the “Big Lie” method. As posted on my blog from Wikipedia:
- “It may include the distribution of forged documents, manuscripts, and photographs, or propagation of malicious rumors and fabricated intelligence. In the context of espionage or military intelligence, it is the deliberate spreading of false information to mislead an enemy as to one’s position or course of action. In the context of politics, it is the deliberate attempt to deflect voter support of an opponent, disseminating false statements of innuendo based on the candidates vulnerabilities as revealed by opposition research. In both cases, it also includes the distortion of true information in such a way as to render it useless.”
- “Unlike traditional propaganda and Big Lie techniques designed to engage emotional support, disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions.”
- “A common disinformation tactic is to mix some truth and observation with false conclusions and lies, or to reveal part of the truth while presenting it as the whole.”
Once again: This disinformation campaign EXAGGERATES Davis’s radical background, by calling him a “lifelong member of the Communist Party USA,” “Stalinist, etc.” The campaign consists of a series of SMALL exaggerations, the cumulative effect of which conveys a message. The individual exaggerations need NOT be gross distortions to constitute disinformation. It is their pattern that constitutes the campaign.
This disinformation campaign EXAGGERATES their relationship in order to convey the impression that Davis had a greater influence over Obama than actually existed:
- Kincaid: According to Gerald Horne (CPUSA linked article), Davis “became the young man’s mentor” and influenced Obama’s “career moves” (Horne said that Davis gave Obama career advice, rather than influencing his career moves, and did not use the term “mentor.” By falsely attributing the exaggeration to Horne, Kincaid deflects direct responsibility.
- Kincaid: Obama “developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis” (unsubstantiated speculation).
There is much more detail at http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/Kaleokualoha/gGxdvX#extended.
Well I think you are exaggerating, does that mean you are committing the big lie too?
“The Big Lie is a propaganda technique. It was defined by Adolf Hitler in his 1925 autobiography Mein Kampf as a lie so “colossal” that no one would believe that someone “could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously”.
“Unlike traditional propaganda and Big Lie techniques designed to engage emotional support, disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions.”
This seems to be much ado about fine distinctions of nothingness. Mark’s comments try to make the fine distinction between “communist sympathizer” and “member of CPUSA”—so what? Father or not, the distinction is irrelevant to the issue.
The issue and concern is the collectivist influence on Obama and his tendencies toward collectivism (communism, socialism) and statism (fascism) in his public statements and proposed policies.
The point of Kincaid’s articles and most people’s concerns is that communism/socialism/collectivism are fundamentally opposed to the founding principles of this nation. Those principles are individual rights and the government’s obligation to protect those rights.
Communism, socialism, collectivism, and statism (all of which we see in both Democrat and Republican positions) put “common good,” and “collective rights” above individual rights. That is the fundamental rub here.
“... collectivism (communism, socialism) and statism (fascism)...”
Make that:
“... collectivism (socialism) and statism (communism, fascism)...”
Mark, John
I think John’s hitting the nail on the head. Whether or not Davis was a card-carrying Communist is not the burning issue here. He did, after all is said and done, have some radical viewpoints which may have significantly influenced Obama who was, like all of us at that age, an impressionable teenager. The issue/concern is to what extent Obama’s core beliefs have been influenced by not only Mr. Davis, but by Obama’s other associates as well, e.g. Ayers and Dohrn, “Rev” Wright, et. al. That’s the truly burning issue of importance to me and, I believe, to most commenters as well. And the dino press has done a lousy, indeed negligent, job of vetting BHO in this regard.
You will probably find that Frank Marshall Davis’s influence with Obama enhanced, rather than diminished, Obama’s respect for individual rights. After all, Davis was primarily a Civil Rights activist who supported the United States Constitution. Sadly, Jim Crow laws proved that some Americans felt the Equal Protection clause was optional, just as some felt that the First Amendment was optional. He relied upon the Communist Left for support systems, as mainstream American institutions were not very supportive of civil rights.
According to “The New Red Negro,” only the Communist Left had any significant institutional impact on African-American writing during the 1930’s and 1940’s. See http://books.google.com/books?id=kt5LMD-OnxoC&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq;=“the+new+red+negro”+communist+davis&source=web&ots=B-HaNJA9HW&sig=ZiOltjxuI1QwdjCAvvEC0f4NnGQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result.
I have found no indication that Davis ever taught radical political or economic theory to Obama. Instead, Obama tells of Davis’s attitude towards higher education and race relations. Right and left wing bloggers may be trying to exploit Obama’s good will towards Frank Marshall Davis for their own political purposes.
Through his “Roundtable For Change” proposal, I believe that Communist Alan Maki is attempting to parlay Obama’s respect for Davis’s social insight into Obama’s support for Maki’s war on capitalism. Through his “Obama’s Communist Mentor” disinformation, I believe that Cliff Kincaid is attempting to parlay Obama’s respect for Davis’s social insight into Obama’s respect for Davis’s “communist” inclinations.
They both use disinformation. They talk to each other, which suggests mutual interests. Perhaps the left and right wings have met in the depths of hell and forged a compact against Frank Marshall Davis and Barack Obama.
Yeah the “Communist Left” has had a fantastic human rights history in the 20th Century. Censorship, Destruction of the right to free speech/right to free assembly, one-party states, The Stalin purges, 5 Year Plan, Pol Pot’s genocide, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, etc…
You make the observation that our institutions didnt support human rights, but let me ask you… what governments at the time supported human rights?
The legacy of Civil Rights protection in government comes primarily from Anglo/French history. You advocate something that did not exist in human history and was created by Western civilization. Our country was instrumental in that development.
Anyway, your Maki/Kincaid speculation is a rather dubious accusation. Maki is appealing to the Obama campaign to support his agenda while Kincaid has no common ground with the Obama campaign and no hope of any.
It sad that you have dived into the depths of paranoia that you have previously complained about.
Here in lies the problem Obama, Mccain—-well let me inform all of you there is nor difference between either party or candidate I am a hard core defender of freedom and liberty, and if you think,for one minute I would waste any vote on the 2 sell outs who are backed by the globalists, think again.because weather it is Mccain or Obama it will look just like Mr. Bushes 3rd term,
Since 9/11 this country and its politics have been disfunctional, we have a do nothing congress, and senate, we have the patroit act, the military commissions act, the infamous romsfld snowflake memos, on how to sell faer to the american people, lies to get us into the war in Iraq, PD 51 thats (presidentcial directive 51)if you do not know what that is you can look that up on http://www.whitehouse.gov the spp, warrtentless wire tapping, the infamous torture memos, blackwater world wide, and a economy on the verge of a major major meltdown, bankruns, delcineing infrastructure, a new private spy corperation hired by the FBI & Cia group called infraguard etc.
There is only one man who has told the truth and the mainstream media dissed him, and that is Dr. Ron Paul. that is the only way to vote if you want real change, and smaller government he is the man to go with. it is just that simple, even though he suspended his race I will write him in.
Chris,
It’s fine if you choose not to vote for either of the candidates. In my estimation, both are flawed, Obama deeply so.
However, you say a vote for either of them is akin to voting for a third term of Bush. Your mixing up the talking points. It is the Dems who are saying a vote for McCain is like a vote for 4 more years of Bush. Just thought I’d clarify that for you.
Also, repeating sound bites, talking points (Bush lied us into war, for example) and specious conspiracy theories doesn’t bolster your arguments for Ron Paul. Strive to stick to the facts; otherwise, you’ll sound like a liberal loon and have absolutely no credibility at all. Just a friendly piece of advice.
Despite the economic decline/adjustment/whatever, the basics are still very sound. You need but to compare our economic health with that of the rest of world to see that. We all have lived on credit for too and it was bound to catch up with us. But, frankly, I’m optimistic—so long as a socialist big government, higher tax Dems don’t take over in November. Without any checks on a liberal White House and Congress, it will be quite a ride to economic catastrophe. SO, I honestly believe that a vote for McCain is a vote for more sensible and stabilizing economic policies. Do I like him? No. The “greenies” have clearly won him over and he is much too liberal for me. BUT, with two branches of gov’t controlled by liberal Dems the only balance left will be the Supreme Court to which McCain has promised more conservative judges vs Obama’s promise for more ACLU Ginsberg types. That alone is enough for me to get off my dead a__ on election day and vote for McCain. Ron Paul isn’t on the ballot, so there’s either McCain or Obama or the sofa. Choose the sofa if you must, but, for the good of the country, please not Comrade Obama.
Being a conservative, I understand your frustration. The system clearly failed us all. However, the smart guy takes what he can get and runs with it. So, please encourage your cohorts to vote against statism/socialism (Obama) and for individual liberty/free enterprise/judicial conservatism (McCain). It’s not rocket science. Really.
well you make some good talking points how ever facts are facts, and everything I spoke of can be verified through verified and sourced info. not conspiracy theory just facts. as far as Mccain goes he will never get my vote, he also voted for amnesty for those not here in country legally, that is not a talking point it is a fact.
The great thing about this country is that we are allowed freedom of thought and speech,and to be able to think for one’s self. what is missing in most cases is critical thinking skill and the ability to research the facts. My information is based on research and documented facts.
Freedom Now,
YOU WROTE: “Yeah the “Communist Left” has had a fantastic human rights history in the 20th Century. Censorship, Destruction of the right to free speech/right to free assembly, one-party states, The Stalin purges, 5 Year Plan, Pol Pot’s genocide, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, etc…”
RESPONSE: I regret that I was unclear. I was referring to the Communist Left within the United States. In the global context, both extremes have equally abysmal human rights records. In the 1930’s, however, the difference between communist doctrine and practice was not as obvious. People were easily seduced by their egalitarian propaganda, especially those who were consistently getting the short end of the stick though institutionalized Jim Crow policies.
YOU WROTE: “Anyway, your Maki/Kincaid speculation is a rather dubious accusation. Maki is appealing to the Obama campaign to support his agenda while Kincaid has no common ground with the Obama campaign and no hope of any. It sad that you have dived into the depths of paranoia that you have previously complained about.”
RESPONSE: Do you dispute that they both use disinformation? Do you dispute that they have common interests? Kincaid has reported their conversations for the record, which elevates it above an “accusation.” Maki’s true motivation is still a mystery, since they ostensibly oppose each other. Being on the wings, they both have negligible common ground with the Obama campaign, despite Maki’s blog. Everyone wants truth, justice, and apple pie, but the devil is in the details.
When I posted “Perhaps the left and right wings have met in the depths of hell and forged a compact against Frank Marshall Davis and Barack Obama.,” it was not meant to be taken literally. It was metaphorical speculation, not an accusation. I regret the confusion, which may have caused you to attribute it to “the depths of paranoia.”
YOU WROTE: “The legacy of Civil Rights protection in government comes primarily from Anglo/French history. You advocate something that did not exist in human history and was created by Western civilization. Our country was instrumental in that development.”
RESPONSE: I heartily agree!
“... Sadly, Jim Crow laws proved that some Americans felt the Equal Protection clause was optional ...”
It wasn’t just Jim Crow laws, but peonage and indentured servitude laws in the South that were morally wrong and worthy on condemnation. Checking the history books, it seems that Southern Democrats were the ones who perpetuated such slavery and violation of individual rights.
How is it that blacks find Democrats so much more to their liking than Republicans, the party of Lincoln? How are blacks so blind they cannot see through Democrat’s cynical pandering of “free lunch” welfare statism, “reparations to blacks for slavery,” and black “politics of grievance?”
Chris,
I give up. It’s too frustrating. Like spitting in the wind. Do what ‘ya gotta’ do. I will do the same, and both strive and hope for the best.
BFD, So Obama has Marxist support. McCain has Trotsky support. Seems like ‘ole shoe pounder’
Nikita was right… “We shall bury you”. And they did it from within without firing a shot.
The Republic is toast an ya’ll are too stupid to know it.
Voxoreason,
Real Americans who are familiar with our history (warts and all), our Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution, have no interest in overturning our heritage which has resulted in the success of our great experiment in democracy.
Ah, America IS a REPUBLIC, Not a Democracy. When asked what they had accomplished, Ben Franklin replied, “We have wrought a REPUBLIC, If you can keep it”. The Nation is in the trouble it is because it has become a Democracy lead by a ‘Decider’ Boy King.
Guess while all the rest are saying, “and to the Republic for which it stands” you say “and to the Democracy for which it became”.
Ron Paul is the only recourse to get back to the Basics of being a Republic.
Oh come now, Mark,
Your deception analysis training from the C.I.A. has given you an attitude that is “metaphorically” somewhere between Burger King and McDonalds… You think that you can have it McAnyway you want!!!
You said;
“When I posted “Perhaps the left and right wings have met in the depths of hell and forged a compact against Frank Marshall Davis and Barack Obama.,” it was not meant to be taken literally. It was metaphorical speculation, not an accusation. I regret the confusion, which may have caused you to attribute it to “the depths of paranoia.”
So now you dont want to be taken literally, but when you criticize others you insist on completely holding them to literal interpretations. There isnt one rule for you and one rule for everyone else.
After all, you are the same person who said;
“In debate, I try to interpret others literally whenever possible. A “paranoid” personality is characterized by suspicion and distrust of others; a tendency to look for hidden meaning behind other people’s actions.”
Can you give me the details of what was said between Maki and Kincaid that makes you think that they are working together? Something besides “hello”. Something specific will do.
Common interests don’t mean much… otherwise I could have used similar speculation when Nancy Pelosi visited Syria because they both have common interests to force a premature U.S. withdrawal from Iraq. While I think she was stupid for visiting them… that is not my sentiment, but you are certainly fishing in the same territory aren’t you?
Freedom Now,
YOU WROTE: “So now you dont want to be taken literally, but when you criticize others you insist on completely holding them to literal interpretations. There isnt one rule for you and one rule for everyone else.
RESPONSE: Good point! However, there is a major difference between metaphors and exaggerations, especially when exaggerations come from people dedicated to fairness, balance and accuracy in news reporting. An exaggeration misrepresents reality, either deliberately or unwittingly. A metaphor is not literally applicable and therefore cannot be confused with reality. By their nature, metaphors are inherently symbolic. Their symbolism is not “hidden meaning.”
YOU WROTE: “Can you give me the details of what was said between Maki and Kincaid that makes you think that they are working together? Something besides “hello”. Something specific will do.”
RESPONSE: I have no idea of what was said. I cannot even speculate on that conversation, because Maki’s actual motives are obscure. Off the top of my head, however, evidence supporting their common interests includes:
1. They both oppose Obama.
2. They both are using Maki’s blog for their own political agendas.
3. They communicate with each other.
4. Kincaid quotes Maki extensively.
5. They both have exaggerate Davis’s influence over Obama.
6. They both use conservative blogosphere terms like “mentor” in this context.
7. They both misrepresent reality to support their positions.
Once again, thanks for keeping this a civil conversation.
Mark,
Your “metaphor” was no accident. It was a smear without any conclusive evidence. That is why when challenged you knew that you couldnt support it, but you continue on the same track with a different approach.
Maki is a leftwing source like most of Kincaid’s sources on this story. Obama, Maki, Horne and Takara.
So just what is this common interest that you talk about? Maki said:
“In my opinion, the views of Frank Marshall Davis offer an important contribution to the democratic process with a clear analysis, often as relevant today as when his words were originally written; Davis’s ideas are a breath of fresh air deserving of dialogue, discussion and debate.”
http://theminnesotaproblem.blogspot.com/2008/06/frank-marshall-davis.html
That doesn’t sound like something Kincaid would say. To him Communism is bad, to Maki it is positive. Maki doesn’t think that associating Davis to Obama is harmful to Obama, its just the opposite. He feels that Obama doesn’t understand “change” like Davis did…
“ In reading Barack Obama’s book I learned about his mentor, Frank Marshall Davis. I then got interested in finding out more about who this “mentor” was. I think Frank Marshall Davis would be somewhat disappointed in Obama today because Frank Marshall Davis didn’t mince any words when it came to articulating the problems of working people and bringing forward real solutions to the problems. Frank Marshall Davis understood that working people once educated, organized and united are a powerful force for “change.” Frank Marshall Davis understood something Barack Obama doesn’t seem to have learned from his “mentor;” that in order to get “change,” you need to articulate and clearly define and spell out what kind of “change” is being talked about.”
He concludes:
“now I can say that Frank Marshall Davis is in many ways my mentor, too.”
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/alanmaki
But you complained about, “conservative blogosphere terms like ‘mentor’?” ???
Once again, in Maki’s own words:
“Anyone who looks at the conservative and right-wing bloggers supporting John McCain sees that the attacks on Obama are both racist and anti-communist.
These attacks center around Frank Marshall Davis, the deceased black journalist and Communist Party member who Obama says was his “mentor”. Apparently Joe McCarthy has risen from the grave and intends to go goose-stepping backward over the dead body of one of this country’s most courageous working-class journalists.”
http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/letters/296575
You are grasping at straws.
Freedom Now,
I ORIGINALLY POSTED: “Perhaps the left and right wings have met in the depths of hell and forged a compact against Frank Marshall Davis and Barack Obama.”
YOU WROTE: “Your “metaphor” was no accident. It was a smear without any conclusive evidence. That is why when challenged you knew that you couldnt support it, but you continue on the same track with a different approach.”
RESPONSE: Of course it was no accident. Of course I have no conclusive evidence of the left and right wings forging a compact in hell. Once again, a metaphor is NOT meant to be taken literally. “Perhaps” is not a declarative statement of reality; it merely introduces a possibility. If you examine the statement more closely (without a chip on your shoulder), you may realize that “perhaps” indicates a POSSIBILITY that they formed a compact in hell. It neither asserts that they actually formed a compact, nor does it assert that that actually met in hell. Even without the “hell” metaphor, “conclusive evidence” is never required to support a mere possibility, because WITH conclusive evidence a possibility becomes a certainty. Do you truly believe that my metaphor smeared the right or left wing?
YOU WROTE: So just what is this common interest that you talk about?
On July 18, I posted “They talk to each other, which suggests mutual interests.” I never said, nor suggested, that they have everything in common. I only indicated that they have SOME common interests. Indeed, they are on opposite ends of the spectrum, which makes some of these commonalities all the more curious.
Please note that I do not contend that they have a “common interest” (singular), because that suggests that the aggregate of their interests is similar. I do not believe it is similar, unless Maki is truly a Kincaid shill, pretending to be a dumb communist. I only SUGGESTED that they have mutual interests (plural - a subset of all of their interests). Once again, since you asked the question, let me outline SOME of them for you:
1. Opposition to Obama.
2. Using Maki’s blog for their own political agendas.
3. Communication with each other.
4. Use of Maki quotes in Kincaid’s reports..
5. Exaggeration of Davis’s influence over Obama.
6. Using conservative blogosphere terms like “mentor” in this context, and falsely attributing it to others.
7. Misrepresenting reality to support their positions.
These are NOT complaints, just observations. If you disagree with any of the, please advise.
Their mutual use of “mentor” is especially curious, because I can find no use of it (in this context) that predates the conservative blogosphere. Trevor Loudon apparently used it first in March 2007. Cliff Kincaid uses it in February 2008, and falsely attributes it to CPUSA member Gerald Horne. Alan Maki uses it and falsely attributes it to Barack Obama. False attribution is a common disinformation technique.
Since he did not get it from Barack Obama, then he must have gotten it elsewhere. The only other apparent blogosphere sources are conservative bloggers. By the process of deduction, he most likely adopted it from conservative bloggers like Loudon and Kincaid. Therefore, he most likely reads the conservative blogosphere. I believe these are logical conclusions based on available evidence. These are NOT assertions of fact, only speculation. If you see any holes in this logic, please advise.
Further, you posted one of Maki’s more irrational statements: “Anyone who looks at the conservative and right-wing bloggers supporting John McCain sees that the attacks on Obama are both racist and anti-communist.” In reality, obviously some are and some are not. Anyone with such impaired judgment might easily be manipulated into saying virtually anything. He would be easy pickings for Cliff Kincaid.
Uh, this line of bantering about Davis has about run its course.
I think it says much more about Obama that his political career, following his “activism” in the worst “machine politics” city in America, Chicago, began in the home of two unrepentent terrorists/murderers.
One is known by the company he keeps. Whether Davis experienced some immaculate conception as a communist or converted later is just another of Obama’s many fatal flaws: his association with Davis.
Again, I will not be raving about how wonderful McCain is, but he is the only realistic choice for president, although NOT my first choice.
And Obama isn’t helping himself by playing the “race card” himself at every opportunity!
If and when he loses, America will be defamed, unfairly, as a “racist” nation. True Americans, however, prefer the “melting pot” assimilation of legal immigrants as opposed to a bunch of foreigners coming in whining and complaining because America isn’t just like the country they left to come here. If all these “traditions” are so essential to them, say, killing your wife or daughter because they were raped or flying the Mexican flag over the American flag, screw ‘em.
There are countries (the ones they left to come here) that have ALL of these traditions.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
If America isn’t just like the country you left, your option is obvious: go home. No need to learn English or do things that have been traditions in America for centuries. (We have liberals to try to screw up these traditions. They all seem to be rich…and tight with a buck, not giving to charity, which is a defining attribute of Christians and those on the right who respect the Founding Fathers, believe that the Constitution is a brilliant blue print for running a country (and even contained a plan for fine-tuning to correct things that weren’t viable in the 18th century, eg, slavery and women’s sufferage), are largely Christian, and don’t give a rat’s arse about how things were where immigrants came from, unless we enjoy them, eg, the contribution to our popular culture in the form of music, some of which we have accepted with joy and appreciation.
I Love Lucy; La Bamba; the Latin music crazes of decades past (Mama Loves Mambo), and the soul music of the 60’s and 70’s (before they had to come across as copkillers and misogynist pigs to sell CDs). Americans came up with heavy metal and rap, both of which suck unmercifully.
Not reporting illegal immigrants is ALSO a crime as we are required to report crimes…and “illegal” immigration is definitely a crime, hence “illegal.” (This means “not legal,” which is basically criminal. Geez, Louise, this isn’t difficult stuff, people!) Our politicians are overwhelmingly breaking their Oaths of Office by ignoring Article 4, Section 4 of the Constitution. They’re as bad as the illegals.
And no, people who have never set foot in America shouldn’t enjoy the same rights as American citizens, whether born here or naturalized in a legal fashion. When I was a boy, my father brought me to the naturalization ceremony for a co-worker he liked (different nationality, different religion, but still my father’s friend). If you want to see proud faces, attend such a ceremony. You’ll see ‘em. And they’re legal. And they’re Americans.
God bless America, Americans, and those who go through the legal channels to become Americans (and speak English; required for naturalization).
NO ballots printed in foreign languages. If you can’t learn English or have children who do to act as translators, go somewhere where people understand you…and outside the borders of the US. And take the 3rd party voters with you!
America can’t survive Obama, and my best guess is that he would be assassinated. JFK wanted to pull out of Vietnam and put the CIA under the purview of the Sec of the Navy (who was NOT interested in this idea) and they took HIM out.
Obama is no JFK.
Neither are today’s liberals.
More speculation:
If Maki reads the conservative blogosphere enough to have known about conservative claims regarding Obama’s “mentor,” then he should have known that Kincaid was strongly anti-communist BEFORE he spoke with him. If so, then his decision to hold multiple conversations with him is even MORE suspicious.
Unlike Dr. Takara, who was apparently unsure of Kincaid’s political agenda, this suggests that Alan Maki willingly entered into this relationship with his putative ideological enemy. He knew (or should have known) that Kincaid would exploit his “Roundtable for Change” blog as ammunition against Barack Obama BEFORE his reported conversations with Kincaid, yet he willingly cooperated with Kincaid.
This cooperation suggests a serious conflict of interests for Alan Maki. Some of his interests apparently coincide with Kincaid’s, while others are apparently diametrically opposed to Kincaid’s.
Voxoreason,
You said it all. No need for beating a dead horse, so to speak.
Obama, his handlers and the Socialist-dominated Dems are a clear and present danger to all that American tradition holds sacred and dear.
Unfortunately, a starry-eyed and intellectually disengaged electorate are in full swoon mode and are unable to see it. After January 20th, it may no longer be a country worth spilling heartland American’s blood over. We will have taken a step into darkness out of which we might not be able to easily find our way. This coupled with the oil and housing crises don’t bode well for the republic.
Mark, you wrote:
“If Maki reads the conservative blogosphere enough to have known about conservative claims regarding Obama’s “mentor,” then he should have known that Kincaid was strongly anti-communist BEFORE he spoke with him. If so, then his decision to hold multiple conversations with him is even MORE suspicious.”
Suspicious? And you say that you are not being paranoid?
Maki’s phone number is published openly on the Internet (as well as his address and email address). The guy is obviously very open to communication. Most people do not give out that kind of information freely on the Internet. Why dont you call him? Lets see if he will talk to you despite your complete opposition to him.
Alan L. Maki
Check out my blog:
http://thepodunkblog.blogspot.com/
58891 County Road 13
Warroad, Minnesota 56763
(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Feel free to call me: 218-386-2432
Mark, why don’t you just write a book? It would seem to be a good cathartic for you, plus the sales and reviews would tell you more than any commenter on this forum.
FREEDOM NOW WROTE: “Maki’s phone number is published openly on the Internet (as well as his address and email address). The guy is obviously very open to communication. Most people do not give out that kind of information freely on the Internet. Why dont you call him? Lets see if he will talk to you despite your complete opposition to him.”
Good question. I am not interested in calling him because I do not want to have a private telephone conversation with him, although a face-to-face encounter with this “hard-core CPUSA member” may prove enlightening. I want our debate, however, to be in a public forum regarding his public activities. I tried to get Maki to respond to questions on his blog when I posted:
1. How did Barack Obama “first” bring Frank Marshall Davis to your attention? He was only mentioned as “Frank” in Obama’s book. His connection with Obama first received widespread attention in the conservative blogs written by Trevor Loudon and Cliff Kincaid, who FIRST claimed he was Obama’s “mentor.”
2. What is your relationship with Cliff Kincaid? In one of his recent columns, titled “Communist Party Backs Obama,” he cites a telephone conversation with YOU! (See Link He quotes YOUR blog on Obama’s website. He posts “information provided by Maki is deadly confirmation that a hard-core CPUSA member played a key role in helping raise Obama.” Evidently, you are a tool of his disinformation campaign.
3. Your question “Who cares about the use of the term “mentor?” is rather disingenuous. It is important because it seems to have first appeared in the conservative blogosphere, falsely attributed to a CPUSA figure. For a person supposedly at odds with conservative values, you seem to have easily adopted their terminology. Did you adopt it from Kincaid’s characterization of my father as “Obama’s Communist Mentor,” or did you think of it yourself?
If you truly doubt my identify, sir, visit Las Vegas. I can prove it with a birth certificate, family photographs, and a lesson you may not soon forget. I am defending my family honor. Cliff Kincaid is a professional advocate for conservative causes, conducting a disinformation campaign in the highest traditions of Soviet KGB “active measures.” You, sir, are but a sheep in wolf’s clothing.
[END QUOTE]Please note that he avoided my questions about Kincaid, deleted my posts, and falsely represented my posts as part of a “racist, anti-semitic hate campaign.” This is “deliberate misrepresentation,” and especially absurd from a white man accusing a black who did not mention race at all. Review the comments to his blog at http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/alanmaki/gG5GqK/commentary#comments, then review my blog at http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/Kaleokualoha/gGxk2C to verify that the deleted comments were deliberately misrepresented.
Freedom Now wrote: “Suspicious? And you say that you are not being paranoid?”
Perhaps so. When a person acts squirrely like Alan Maki, however, it should automatically trigger suspicion. When he evades my questions, it doubles my suspicion. Playing an absurd “race card,” then misrepresenting and deleting my comments, confirms his lack of integrity in my mind.
Does anyone believe he is being honest in this matter?
I dont know who is more honest between you or Maki. As creatures of the Internet I dont know enough about either of you guys.
Anyway… once again, in Maki’s words:
“Anyone can call me, including you (Mark)”
So Maki is indeed open to contact with anyone, including those opposed to his viewpoints. As a matter of fact, he personally invited you to call him despite your fierce opposition to him.
An email will get your questions answered more efficiently than anything else.
I’m sorry, I guess I did not make myself clear. I am NOT interested in chatting with him. I am interested in having him answer questions, in writing, because he “deliberately represents” (i.e., he LIES) so easily.
Only in a public forum, where he cannot delete inconvenient comments, will his true colors be revealed.
Our discussion should have revealed, Freedom Now, that I will answer any relevant question to the best of my ability. I have no goal other than the truth. As you have seen, I will admit my mistakes (e.g., “Communist Party Supports Obama”). You have witnessed Maki’s response to questions. If this information is insufficient for you to compare our degree of honesty, I am truly sorry.
There is nothing to be sorry about.
Based on the information available I cannot make a judgement in this case. Maki has stated a strong reason for deleting your comments.
I dont know if he is right or wrong in his conclusion, but there are no means available to determine positively one way or another without going to Las Vegas. That is something that I have no interest in doing (solely due to time constraints and financial reasons).
In the meantime I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
I am John Edgar Tidwell, University of Kansas ((JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)), and editor of the oft-mentioned books by Frank Marshall Davis. Although prior commitments prevent me from actively participating in this debate, I would like to take this opportunity to confirm the identity of Mark Kaleokualoha Davis, who posts comments as “Kaleokualoha,” and who has a blog at http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/Kaleokualoha. He is indeed the son of Frank Marshall Davis.
I can also verify that Kaleokualoha’s Alan Maki post (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/Kaleokualoha/gGxk2C) contains an accurate copy, through Jul 12th 2008 at 11:13 pm EDT, of the COMMENTS section from Alan Maki’s blog at http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/alanmaki/gG5GqK/commentary#comments. Alan Maki subsequently deleted critical comments, falsely claiming they were “part of a racist, anti-Semitic hate campaign,” when in fact they were only critical of Maki’s actions. A comparison of both blogs will verify that Kaleokualoha’s comments were NOT part of a racist, anti-Semitic hate campaign.
Although my research indicates that Davis joined the CPUSA as a “closet member” during Word War II, there is no evidence that he was a Stalinist, or even a Party member before WWII. Further, there is no evidence that he instructed Barack Obama in communist ideology. Frank Marshall Davis did NOT believe in overthrowing the USA. He was committed to what the nation professed to be. For him, communism was merely an intellectual vehicle, a possible tool for gaining the constitutional freedoms of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Mark, it seems you protest too much. Can we assume you feel that Stalinist Frank Marshall Davis’ association with Barack Obama was merely coincidental? What then of Saul Alinsky the communist originator of the Community Organizer movement? And just what is a “Community Organizer” if not a socialist or communist agitator who happens to be a pettifogger who uses the law as a weapon? Is that merely coincidence too? Then what about William Ayers, a Marxist-Leninist communist unrepentant domestic terrorist or Bernadine Dohrn, also a Marxist-Leninist communist domestic terrorist associated with the Weather Underground and with Kathy Boudin? Was their involvement in the start of Obama’s early political career merely coincidence? And what of the Rev. Wright’s communist influenced Liberation Theology? And should we mention that Barack’s father was also a socialist, although not a Marxist? How about his mother, an atheist socialist or progressive attorney Michelle LaVaughn Robinson? What about his association with Prof. Rashid Khalidi of Columbia University or Mike Kruglic? What about Obama’s associations (a politically charged word it seems akin to the N word) with ACORN, a radical far left group, or the Marxist third party New Party started by Joel Rogers and Daniel Cantor, Just how many coincidences does it take before a pattern is established?
Your efforts reminds me of another campaign meant to establish that character didn’t count concerning a politician who not only used prostitutes, molested young women, but even raped a couple, perjured himself in court, and gave the Communist Chinese advanced sensitive missile and military technology after receiving illegal foreign campaign donations, gave them management access to a major American port with a major naval base, and allowed one of their state-owned shipping companies to smuggle in drugs and automatic weapons to illegal Mexican street gangs. So I guess that to liberals both character and associations don’t count, only their parroting the leftist party line faithfully.
By the way, what is a “blatant misappropriation of Obama campaign resources?” Are you claiming that anyone who posts in the public comment section of Obama’s website information that doesn’t adulate Obama is misusing the website? Next you’ll claim any negative information on any website is inappropriate. Actually in your statement “On July 14 Kincaid confirmed that Alan Maki is not an Obama supporter, thus rendering his my.barackobama.com blog fraudulent,” you do just that.
I suppose that you believe that the savior of the world, the agent of change, and the second coming, St. Obama is above criticism. May God help us because I believe that He is going to give us what many want and what we richly deserve, a socialist welfare nanny one party authoritarian state.
Roberto:
I protest too much? My apologies! What IS the appropriate level of protest when someone claims that my father’s “values, passed on to Obama, were those of a communist agent who pledged allegiance to Stalin,” as Kincaid did in his “Media Excuse Obama’s False Advertising” report?
Sorry, but I cannot comment on Obama’s relationships with the other individuals you mention, because I do not know enough about them. I am concerned with lies regarding my father. My apologies.
YOUR WROTE “By the way, what is a “blatant misappropriation of Obama campaign resources?” Are you claiming that anyone who posts in the public comment section of Obama’s website information that doesn’t adulate Obama is misusing the website?”
No, because that is a false dilemma. There are many degrees of support between adulation and rejection. The website, however, is designed for those who actually support Obama. Adulation is not necessary. Using the website for your own agenda, when it does not include support for Obama, is a “blatant misappropriation of Obama campaign resources” (IMHO).
Thanks for asking!
Mark,
If a website by expressed policy is supposed to be limited to only those who support a candidate then it’s up a webmaster or committee to weed out less than supportive statements. There’s no legal, political, or moral compunction for dissenters to refrain from making comments as long as they don’t resort to canards, innuendoes, prevarications, vituperation, or ad hominem attacks. However, it doesn’t constitute censorship to remove all negative comments as the website is a non-government entity and has a right to limit discussion to only positive comments, although doing so may well be short-sighted if the negative comments are based on cogent qualms with the candidate. But submitting negative comments isn’t misappropriation of a website or forum. Only those whose goal it is to limit freedom of speech believe that.
Unfortunately, it’s those with that same mindset who believe that eliminating conservative, religious, or Republican voices (negative by their belief system)in the public square thru the use of policies and laws such as the Fairness Doctrine, Community Standards (set by Community Organizers), Campaign Finance, Hate Crime, and IRS 501(c)3 laws is quite proper and politically correct and necessary.
You protest about my supposed implication that the “values, passed on to Obama, were those of a communist agent who pledged allegiance to Stalin.” Of course I never stated that so please don’t put words in my mouth. One didn’t have to be an agent pledging allegiance to Stalin to believe that Stalin’s view of Communism was correct. Without apologies I believe that Frank Marshall Davis believed in communism and admired Stalin; that his worldview was based on Rousseau, Schleiermacher, Hegel, Strauss, Nietzsche, and Marx. On the other hand I believe in conservatism and capitalism based on natural law and property rights as advanced by Aquinas, Locke, Burke, and Jefferson. I’ve no problem with enunciating what I believe are people’s worldviews.
Yet what we’ve lost in this country is the concept of the loyal opposition. Thru the use of victimization and grievance politics we’re seeing the Balkanization of a once great democratic Republic once under the rule of Constitutional Law. And while it may seem like an extreme statement, I see the day of reeducation and Gulags for those who dissent from accepted social policy. The harbingers of that will be Obama, Pelosi, and Reid. So for all the above reasons I believe that Sen. Obama’s past associations are vitally relevant to his candidacy for president. And because of those associations I believe that not only is he a far left liberal Democrat but also a socialist and quite possibly a communist. That’s neither a condemnation nor an endorsement, just an observation.
Roberto:
I believe our first dialogue was in #87, in which you stated that it seems I protest too much. It’s surprising that you might consider the target of my protest to be you, instead of Cliff Kincaid, because I don’t believe we had interacted previously. Logically, I would have protested against someone who offended me. Logically, that should have have excluded you.
I thought it was obvious that it was not YOUR “supposed implication that the “values, passed on to Obama, were those of a communist agent who pledged allegiance to Stalin,” because Kincaid posted that, not you. That was what I protested, not something you wrote. I shall try to remember that what is obvious to some may not be obvious to all. My apologies.
It is surprising, however, that you believe that my father admired Stalin, even though he criticized Stalin in his writing. What empirical evidence outweighs his explicit criticism?
Thanks!
Roberto:
While I agree that “submitting negative comments” isn’t necessarily “misappropriation of a website or forum,” I believe that we can agree that this particular website functions as a campaign resource, and it is intended for supporters of Barack Obama to discuss issues pertaining to his campaign. In some cases negative comments may comprise constructive criticism from supporters, and may therefore be appropriate within campaign resources. As Alan Maki LATER told Cliff Kincaid, however, he is not a supporter of Barack Obama.
If he had prior knowledge of the intended purpose for which use of this campaign resource was extended, yet he used the website for other than it’s intended purpose, then I believe he took unfair advantage of the website by using it under false pretenses. It’s a question of integrity, similar to a situation in which a real estate agent offers refreshments to prospective buyers at an open house, and others visit these open houses just for the refreshments. They took unfair advantage of the real estate agent by visiting under false pretenses. Does this make sense?
Of course, it is conceivable that he did not know the intended purpose of the website, just as it is conceivable that Maki did not know that Cliff Kincaid would use his blog to attack my father. Highly unlikely, but conceivable.
Mark, posting negative comments about a candidate place on his website is NEVER a misappropriation of resources unless the site is a closed private site restricted to authorized people only - period. Then to break onto the site is a criminal offense. The attitude you describe leads to the inevitable practice of those who say that since one doesn’t agree with their position they have no right to voice their opinion. That’s been done by both the left and right in this country before, not to mention around the world. That’s why I’ve made a big deal of this matter. I hope you understand. Please remember, I do think that one must be respectful and courteous when disagreeing, just as we have been.
Unfortunately, your example of the real estate agent is fallacious because we the people will have bought Obama or McCain whether or not we voted for them or someone else entirely as I’m tempted to do. Even for the losers, the president fully represents them. Now I’ve heard many partisan Democrats claim Bush doesn’t represent them, particularly those who are clueless about the SCOTUS decision in the 2000 election. If so, then they aren’t true Americans, simply put. I thought Clinton should have been removed after his impeachment but he was still my president.
I don’t favor Sen. Obama because I believe he’s a socialist who’ll introduce a socialist welfare nanny state while appeasing aggressive Islam. More than likely he’ll also impose massive new taxes and extreme environmental regulations that’ll cause an economic collapse of the US. And in an attempt to perpetuate the Democratic Party’s hold on office Obama, Pelosi, and Reid will end freedom of speech, press, and religion. But nevertheless he will be my president, at least until impeached and removal or the people dust off the Declaration of Independence and take it to heart with a vengeance; realizing the reason Jefferson said the 2nd amendment was written.
ROBERTO WROTE: “posting negative comments about a candidate place on his website is NEVER a misappropriation of resources unless the site is a closed private site restricted to authorized people only - period.”
RESPONSE: I disagree, but reasonable people may disagree. While “posting negative comments about a candidate place on his website,” per se, may not be a misappropriation of resources, this situation with Alan Maki involves more than merely posting negative comments. It involves the creation of a blog, which I believe is exclusively intended for supporters of Barack Obama. Of course I may be mistaken. Perhaps Obama Campaign management doesn’t really mind if someone uses a my.barackobama.com blog for their own agenda. Perhaps they intend to support unlimited use. But if so, campaign management would probably not have provided a “Report Objectionable Content” button for each post.
ROBERTO WROTE: “The attitude you describe leads to the inevitable practice of those who say that since one doesn’t agree with their position they have no right to voice their opinion.”
RESPONSE: On the contrary! They absolutely have a right to voice their opinions. They do not, however, have the right to voice their opinions at their target’s expense. The Obama website is not a public resource. It is funded by campaign donations, and intended to promote the Obama campaign rather than opposing interests. Hence the name “my.barackobama.com,” rather than “my.whatever.com.”
ROBERTO WROTE: “Unfortunately, your example of the real estate agent is fallacious because we the people will have bought Obama or McCain whether or not we voted for them or someone else entirely as I’m tempted to do”
RESPONSE: When we the people have “bought” the President, regardless of whether or not we voted for them, they we will then have the commensurate rights and privileges of using a public resource. Up until that point, however, campaign resources are NOT public resources. They belong to the campaign, to be used for any lawful purpose desired by campaign management. Although it is pure speculation, I believe that campaign management probably does not desire to subsidize extremist agendas of any type. Extremists tend to be exclusionary and coercive, whereas Obama intends to be inclusive and cooperative.
(IMHO)
Quick break in the commie “debate”:
Obama is, in addition to some questionable associates in the past and present, running on increasing the gas tax (higher prices for gas? sound like a winner to any sane person?) and an increase in taxes generally, so that “net income” figure at the bottom of a pay check will be even less of the “gross income” at the top. Sounds good to me…NOT!
Higher taxes and higher gas prices, while fighting every rational attempt to increase our domestic energy supply, eg, no oil refineries, the usual suspects, etc.
If McCain, who wants to retain the spectacularly successful Bush tax cuts and keep the capital gains tax low, hits America with the obvious campaign ads (who wants to pay higher taxes and higher gas prices?), he won’t get a landslide, but he’ll take the White House.
Then Michelle can go back to being ashamed of America. Perhaps she’ll better herself by going to work as a prostitute or clubbing baby seals to death.
BTW, any who REALLY want higher taxes: PAY THEM! The IRS will take any extra money that you send them. Take it to the bank (or to the post office and address it to the IRS). BTW, dems don’t send in anything more than what they owe, either, no matter how much they “support” higher taxes.
And the killing blow: Obama can’t debate! He can read from a teleprompter, but can’t (or refuses to) answer a question that he doesn’t have a pre-digested “message” to offer in response. He is a master of circumlocution. Sadly, it’s painfully obvious when he does this.
For Cliff Kincaid, Freedom Now, and Alan Maki:
This comment is reprinted from the “Red Faces Over Obama’s Red Mentor” thread:
I am John Edgar Tidwell, University of Kansas ((JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)), and editor of the oft-mentioned books by Frank Marshall Davis. Although prior commitments prevent me from actively participating in this debate, I would like to take this opportunity to confirm the identity of Mark Kaleokualoha Davis, who posts comments as “Kaleokualoha,” and who has a blog at http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/Kaleokualoha. He is indeed the son of Frank Marshall Davis.
I can also verify that Kaleokualoha’s Alan Maki post contains an accurate copy, through Jul 12th 2008 at 11:13 pm EDT, of the COMMENTS section from Alan Maki’s blog. Alan Maki subsequently deleted critical comments, falsely claiming they were “part of a racist, anti-Semitic hate campaign,” when in fact they were only critical of Maki’s actions. A comparison of both blogs will verify that Kaleokualoha’s comments were NOT part of a racist, anti-Semitic hate campaign.
Although my research indicates that Davis joined the CPUSA as a “closet member” during Word War II, there is no evidence that he was a Stalinist, or even a Party member before WWII. Further, to those attempting to make the specious stand for the concrete, there is no evidence that he instructed Barack Obama in communist ideology. Frank Marshall Davis did NOT believe in overthrowing the USA. He was committed to what the nation professed to be. For him, communism was primarily an intellectual vehicle to achieve a political end-a possible tool for gaining the constitutional freedoms of life, liberty, and the
pursuit of happiness for ALL Americans.
[END QUOTE]I have also posted a personal photograph on http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/Kaleokualoha. You may notice a physical resemblance to Frank Marshall Davis. Hopefully, this will resolve any lingering questions regarding my actual identity.
As I said I would give you the benefit of the doubt even though at the time you hadnt provided any proof of your identity… So I never required any proof, but thanks anyway.
This subject only came up because you steered the conversation to Maki and his “pact made in Hell” with Kincaid. Something that Kincaid debunked in his most recent post.
Thanks for the benefit of the doubt, Freedom Now. Perhaps someone could now convince Alan Maki to explain his misrepresentation of my comments on his blog at http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/alanmaki/gG5GqK/commentary#comments.
If you ask him respectfully, all he can do is delete your comment. He cannot delete the fact that a comment was posted. With each deleted comment, more people will recognize the extent of his fraud.
Thanks again!
Mark, the comment you posted by John Edgar Tidwell does more harm to your stand than good. Despite all the tap dancing Tidwell goes thru it’s an admission that Frank Davis was in fact a communist.
Furthermore, the argument that Mr. Davis didn’t favor overthrowing the US government is sophistry as not every communist believed in revolution and even Karl Marx believed that communism would come about relatively peacefully first in an industrialized country such as Great Britain rather than violently in a largely agrarian country like Russia.
Roberto,
I have posted in various places that there is credible evidence that he joined the Party during WWII. That is no longer a point of contention. Being a Party member, however, does not necessarily mean rejection of capitalism, as recent events in China demonstrate. Membership has its rewards . . .
I do, however, take issue with the fabrication that he was a “lifelong member of the Communist Party USA,” as contended in Kincaid’s interview with Bill Steigerwald. Steigerwald has been unwilling to substantiate that contention.
I also take issue with Kincaid’s claim that my father was a “Stalinist,” because “He stayed with the Communist Party even after the Hitler-Stalin pact. That’s why I refer to him as `a Stalinist agent’.”
Further, I take issue with Kincaid’s claim that my father’s “values, passed on to Obama, were those of a communist agent who pledged allegiance to Stalin,” even though my father criticized Stalin in writing.
Thanks for your post.
Mark,
The CPUSA was a Stalinist organization and Frank Davis supported the party line, going as far as to condemn the Marshall Plan and signing a statement by the League of American Writers in June 1941 opposing war against Nazi Germany at a time of the Hitler-Stalin pact.
Remember when he crashed the NAACP meeting in Chicago at the head of a group of Stalinists?
He certainly wasnt a Trotskyite and Mao didnt have much international influence until a long time after Frank Davis became a Communist. Stalinist is an accurate description of the breed of Communism that Frank Davis followed.
That’s a nice rationalization, except that it doesn’t agree with Kincaid’s comment. Ten points for creativity, however!
Perhaps my history is a little off, but didn’t the United States Congress oppose war against Nazi Germany at a time of the Hitler-Stalin pact?
Freedom Now,
I’ve given more thought to your definition of “Stalinist.” Since dictionaries define “Stalinist” somewhat differently (i.e., a supporter of The bureaucratic, authoritarian exercise of state power and mechanistic application of Marxist-Leninist principles associated with Stalin), it raises some interesting questions. Since you automatically consider CPUSA members at that time to be “Stalinists,” then:
Does this include those who rejected collectivism, per se, but joined the Party for other reasons?
Does this include those who believed in the collectivist ideals of Marxism, but rejected the authoritarianism of Stalin?
Did CPUSA members of 1924 automatically become Stalinists when Stalin came to power, regardless of beliefs?
When Stalin died, did they automatically stop being “Stalinists” and become some other “ists”?
Are current CPUSA members who believe in Stalinism “Stalinists”?
BTW: My cursory research indicates that until Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, both public opinion and Congressional opinion was against entry into the war. If so, then the League of American Writers position against entry would seem to have been the mainstream American common position. FDR struggled AGAINST public opinion in helping Britain.
Except for one, those are fantastic questions Mark.
The League of American Writers was a CPUSA front organization. I am not aware of any members of Congress that signed this letter. As we know the CPUSA opposed the war because of its loyalty to the Soviet Union and its foreign policy. I am not aware of one member of Congress at that time that can say the same.
Anyway, in the 40s and 50s I consider any CPUSA member to be a Stalinist as long as they are of average intelligence or above and reasonably informed. I concede that an utterly naïve and possibly mentally retarded CPUSA member would be unaware that the organization was under Stalin’s thumb.
The CPUSA was subordinate to Comintern, an international Communist organization based in Moscow until 1943. Somewhere between the late 20s and mid 30s the organization fell under Stalin’s control and the dictator purged many of its members.
Furthermore, Stalin directly interfered in the operation of the CPUSA. For instance he was instrumental in evicting CPUSA leaders like Jay Lovestone and Benjamin Gitlow (a party founder). He sent John Pepper to the U.S. to expel other Trotskyites (Pepper was later purged by Stalin as well!!!)
Other CPUSA leaders were ousted for supporting Trotsky and other opponents of Stalin.
James Cannon
Max Shachtman
Martin Abern
These speeches by Stalin to the CPUSA are amazing:
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1929/cpusa.htm
Stalin actually lectured against factionalism as he was gearing up for his bloody purges of the 30s. You can see how Communist propaganda works by reading those speeches and accurately interpreting them.
I do not consider any current member of the CPUSA to be a Stalinist today unless it is proven otherwise. Communism today is much different than the 40s and 50s.
Add this to his following Saul Alinsky, whose stated goal was total redistribution of wealth, and no one can deny Obama’s Socialist/Communist core values.
I have to say every person in here love propaganda. Every one is afraid of communism. Read a book. Find out what is about than you can say your part. Obama is not even close to communism. It makes me sick to hear lies that Obama is a Communist. Don’t disregard Communism in that way. The people in United States believes that Soviet Union was a communist place. Communism is that same as true democracy, its is philosphy. Communism is and will be the same as Capitalism it can never be achieved. Socailism is the closest thing to what you people describe as communism. You may be scared of Socialism. I know most people are. That is why Health Insurance cost so much money. But the governement doesn’t help. It would be cheaper to have a single payer health plan but in the long run it might not be. People in the governement are always stealling money from the people for their own personal use. We need to be more of a socialist country, but first we need to kick every person that doesn’t care about the country out of office. Stand up and vote for a real candidate. Do a little research, stop voting the incumbent in office. Please do me a favor and read. Communism is good and so is true Capitalism not this Monopolist country we live in. In the socialist countries they have a closer look at pure competion unlike the U.S. where it is all about the brand and marketing.
“Communism is good…”
That statement reveals your position quite clearly. A simple review of history will show that Socialism and Communism are two of the worst “philosophies” in history. If you actually believe the above statement, there is nothing left to discuss.
I agree that Obama is not a Communist.
But I’ve heard all of the Communist apologist arguments under the sun. The Trotskyites think that they are the real Communists, as well as the Stalinists, Leninists, Maoists and Khmer Rouge, etc…
In all of those cases, the dictatorship of the Proletariat is not democracy.
To a small extent I can tolerate the argument that collective syndicalism (Anarchism) is true democracy, but this is just pure b.s.
July 3 at 7:38 pm | #1 | Link
Bet you don’t hear about this on CNN, MSNBC, ABC or CBS. Forget the New York Times.