“… baggage would prevent him from getting a security clearance in the U.S. Government …”

Hmm—Davis’ “son” Mark supposedly had some sort of clearance as a member of Air Force Intelligence. How’s that work?

I’m beginning to think this one’s done Cliff, since the MSM seem to be addressing it if apologetically and on tiptoes.

It will be done for sure when WSJ picks it up (although I’m noting more populist and collectivist flavor articles there since Murdoch took over—note the misleading cover page article today about “tapping” employee pension funds to pay executives’ deferred compensation for example).

How about getting back to Nadhmi Auchi, Tony Rezko and the Baathist influence. Some “Oil for Food” money going to Obama through that channel maybe??

Good work Cliff Kincaid…there’s a lot more to come about the BHO’s Red connections….the FBI files will tie a lot of the CPUSA cronies to Chicago and Hawaii. Rezko, Auchi, FFOil is the other shoe that will drop as soon as BO gets off the podium in Denver. It is going to be shooting those stinkin’ fish in a barrel time soon…

Depths of Dishonesty”?  AIM is an expert on THAT one!

Kincaid wrote:  “AP doesn’t note the evidence that Davis and his comrades tried to take over the NAACP in order to transform its Honolulu branch into a front for the Stalinist line.”  In fact, there is no such evidence.  Kincaid is AGAIN misrepresenting the testimony of Edward Beman, rookie board member of the Honolulu NAACP!  AIM previously posted three different versions of their misrepresentation.  This is the fourth.

Romerstein’s research only indicates that Davis “suddenly appeared on the scene to propagandize the membership about our “racial problems” in Hawaii.  According to Romerstein’s research, Davis did NOTHING to take over the Honolulu NAACP or transform it into a front for the Stalinist line.  “Others” are accused by Edward Berman of taking these actions, not Davis.  Here is my technical analysis of AIM’s previous disinformation regarding the 1949 NAACP problem:

DISINFORMATION 105: 

HONOLULU NAACP PILIKIA (TROUBLE) IN 1949

Just as an effective cover story requires consistency, so too does an effective disinformation campaign.  Trying to convince people that your target is an atheist Muslim probably won’t work, nor would trying to convince them that he is a gay womanizer.  According to conventional wisdom, certain traits are mutually exclusive.  Internal consistency is the key to creating a credible illusion. 

Inconsistency is always a threat to crude disinformation campaigns.  Because illusions are often built by stacking lies upon other lies, the slightest misstep may cause the illusion to crumble.  Although an illusion may not survive serious scrutiny by an objective analyst, it should still be plausible to those with the appropriate predisposition to believe.  It should make sense to the casual observer.  This is a cardinal rule of effective disinformation.

In the series of disinformation claims regarding Frank Marshall Davis’s encounter with the Honolulu Branch of the NAACP in 1949, Accuracy In Media (AIM) may have violated this cardinal rule.  Perhaps Cliff Kincaid’s theoretical “mentor,” the head of the Soviet KGB’s “active measures” department, may be rolling over in HIS grave due to AIM’s mutually exclusive messages:

The most outrageous version comes from AIM guest columnist Paul Kengor:  “Finally, if that doesn’t concern liberals, they should understand how communists, including Frank Marshall Davis, used the civil-rights movement, and again and again exploited and undermined the NAACP. Romerstein lays this out at length in his report. He quotes Roy Wilkins of the NAACP, who rightly noted of Davis and his comrades: “they would now destroy the local branch of the NAACP.” They would do so after having destroyed another good civil-rights organization. “Comrade Davis,” wrote Wilkins, “was supported by others who recently ‘sneaked’ into the organization with the avowed intent and purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.” Wilkins knew well that this was a standard “tactic” by the communists; it was known by everyone involved in the NAACP at the time. Wilkins, like many civil-rights leaders of his time, refused to be duped by Davis and his comrades.”[4] Note that in this version, Roy Wilkins allegedly criticized Davis.

In his report “Obama’s Red Mentor Praised Red Army,” AIM’s Cliff Kincaid made a different claim:  “The House Committee on Un-American Activities (HCUA) took testimony in 1950 from a member of the Honolulu branch of the NAACP, Edward Berman, who referred to “Comrade Davis” as someone who “sneaked” into the NAACP meetings “with the avowed intent and purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.”[3] In this version, Berman (not Wilkins) criticized Davis for allegedly sneaking into NAACP meetings, while allegedly having the “avowed intent” of converting the same meetings.

In his report “Obama Plays Reagan In Berlin, Al-Jazeera Journalist Funds Campaign,” Kincaid makes a slightly different claim.  In this version, he states that NAACP member Edward Berman testified that “comrade Davis” tried to take over meetings of the organization in Hawaii “for the purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.”[5] Note that in this version, Davis did not “sneak” into meetings.  Instead he allegedly tried to take over meetings.

Obviously all three accounts cannot be true.  Even without reviewing the testimony, it should be readily apparent to an objective observer that at least two must be misrepresentations.  In fact, all three are misrepresentations.

BACKGROUND:

In a report of Hearings Before The Committee on Un-American Activities, House of Representatives, April 17, 18, and 19 April 1950, page 2065 contains the testimony of Edward Berman, who testified [1]:

1.    The Hawaii Association for Civic Unity (HACU) was organized back around 1946.  It was supposed to be a liberal organization for the purpose of civic unity.  He learned in 1947 that a lot of people had moved into the organization who were repugnant to the original membership.  He was invited to see if something could be done to neutralize the group that entered into the organization, who had practically taken it over.  As a result of the conflict between the left-wing and right-wing groups of the HACU, the organization just collapsed. 

2.    Sometime in 1948, he got a call from Mrs. Catherine Christopher (acting president of the Honolulu NAACP), and from Miss Mary Noonan, who was secretary of the local Republican Club, and they asked him if he would join the NAACP.  The same elements who had once controlled HACU had moved into the NAACP.

3.    He went to the first NAACP meeting, and found that the same group that had been in the HACU meeting had now moved over and had practically taken over the organization.  They got a few more people in and were soon in a position where their groups strength was about equal to the other group.  Both groups were trying to bring in people to offset each other.

4.    He wrote a letter date September 26, 1949 TO Roy Wilkins, Acting Secretary, NAACP, which said:

a.    He is a member of the executive committee, Honolulu Branch.  He believes Mrs. Catherine Christopher, acting president of Honolulu Branch acted in good faith by not holding an election under prevailing circumstances.

b.    He was at one of the election meetings at which Davis “suddenly appeared on the scene to propagandize the membership about our “racial problems” in Hawaii.  He had just sneaked in here on a boat, and presto, was an “expert” on racial problems in Hawaii.  Comrade Davis was supported by others who recently “sneaked” into the organization with the avowed intent and purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.

c.    “These others were the same party liners who tried to take over and dominate an organization known locally as the Hawaii Committee for Civic Unity.  The organization collapsed, due to their tactics.  Having destroyed that organization they would now destroy the local branch of the NAACP.”

d.    “I am Caucasian.”  “There is no segregation here.”  “The point I am making is that the Communist Party was deliberately trying to stir up racism in an area where there is fine racial unity and harmony.  It is better to have no organization than to have these tactics continue.  Mrs. Christopher acted in good faith.  She knew what was going on and it was her method of checking them.  Already, scores of Negro members were frightened away from these meetings because of the influx of this element.”

Mr. Berman read the response of the NAACP to the Honolulu Branch:  The board on November 14, 1949 voted to revoke the charter of the Honolulu branch for the following reasons:

“The officers of the Honolulu branch have, by their failure, refusal or neglect to complete the holding of the election of officers as required by the constitution and bylaws for branches and as ordered by the national office, been guilty of conduct inimical to the best interest of the NAACP.

The difference in the problems of racial discrimination in the continental United States and their solution as contrasted with the problems of the Territory makes difficult the applicability of techniques and methods used by branches and the national office to effect the policy of the association in the Territory.

SALIENT FEATURES OF BACKGROUND:

Berman was white, joined the NAACP the previous year, and believed there was NO segregation in Hawaii.
Berman was involved in an NAACP power struggle with “left-wing” members who had once controlled HACU.  Both groups were trying to bring in people to offset each other.  As a result, the acting president did not hold elections.
Berman wrote a letter to Wilkins, which stated:
Berman was at an election meeting at which Davis “suddenly appeared on the scene to propagandize the membership about our “racial problems” in Hawaii.
Davis was SUPPORTED BY OTHERS who “recently “sneaked” into the organization with the avowed intent and purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.
Berman did not accuse Davis of sneaking into meetings, trying to take over meetings, or having the “avowed intent and purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.”  Berman only accused Davis of propagandizing the membership about “racial problems.”
The NAACP revoked their charter because they refused to hold elections.

A.I.M. SPECIFIC MISREPRESENTATION REGARDING 1949 NAACP:

1.  Kincaid claimed “The House Committee on Un-American Activities (HCUA) took testimony in 1950 from a member of the Honolulu branch of the NAACP, Edward Berman, who referred to “Comrade Davis” as someone who “sneaked” into the NAACP meetings “with the avowed intent and purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.”[3]

FACTS: 

a.    Contrary to Kincaid’s claims, Berman’s testimony did NOT claim:

                                                  i.    Davis “sneaked” into any meeting

                                                ii.    Davis attended more than this one meeting

                                                iii.    Davis had “the avowed intent and purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.”

b.    Kincaid’s claim is inherently absurd.  If a person has “the avowed intent and purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line,” they could hardly “sneak” into a meeting.

c.    Berman’s letter stated that Davis WAS SUPPORTED BY OTHERS who RECENTLY “sneaked” into meetings “with the avowed intent and purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.  Kincaid misrepresented the others’ purpose as Davis’s purpose.

2. In another article, Kincaid makes a slightly different claim: “We already knew Davis was a Stalinist. NAACP member Edward Berman testified that “comrade Davis” tried to take over meetings of the organization in Hawaii “for the purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.”[5]

FACTS: 

a.    We do not know that Davis was a “Stalinist.” He actually criticized Stalin, by name, in his writing. [2]

b.    In this version, Kincaid changes his misrepresentation of Berman’s letter from saying that Davis “sneaked” into meetings, to saying that Davis “tried to take over meetings.”  In fact, Berman’s letter did not say either of these.

c.    Berman did NOT testify that Davis tried to take over meetings at all, much less taking over meetings “for the purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.”

d.    Berman mentioned Davis at only one meeting, not “meetings,”

e.    In Berman’s words, the only action Davis took was when he “suddenly appeared on the scene to propagandize the membership about our `racial problems’ here in Hawaii.”  Berman does NOT connect Davis with trying to convert “it into a front for the Stalinist line.”

f.      Romerstein’s research reveals that Berman said that at ONE meeting, Davis was SUPPORTED BY OTHERS who recently “sneaked” into the NAACP meetings “with the avowed intent and purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.  Kincaid therefore misrepresents the Berman testimony in at least four ways:

                                                  i.    Berman testified about Davis’s presence at one meeting, not “meetings” as falsely claimed by Kincaid.

                                                ii.    According to Berman, Davis did not try to “take over” this or any other meeting, as falsely claimed by Kincaid.  He only “appeared on the scene to propagandize” about racial problems.

                                                iii.    Kincaid completely misrepresents Berman’s assessment of Davis’s purpose.  Davis’s purpose, according to Berman, was to propagandize about racial problems.  According to Berman, Davis did NOT attend the meeting “for the purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.”  Davis was only supported by OTHERS who had RECENTLY sneaked into meetings (not this meeting) with the “avowed intent and purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.”  In changing the subject from “others” to Davis, Kincaid also changes “avowed intent and purpose” into just “purpose.”  With this change, Kincaid completely misrepresents Berman’s assessment of Davis’s purpose.

                                                iv.    Further, Kincaid failed to mention the context of Berman’s remarks, including the fact that Berman was a rookie member of the Board, and a Caucasian who believed there was NO segregation in Hawaii.  Even decades later, some landlords refused to rent to people of certain ethnic groups.

3.  According to AIM guest columnist Paul Kengor:  “Finally, if that doesn’t concern liberals, they should understand how communists, including Frank Marshall Davis, used the civil-rights movement, and again and again exploited and undermined the NAACP. Romerstein lays this out at length in his report. He quotes Roy Wilkins of the NAACP, who rightly noted of Davis and his comrades: “they would now destroy the local branch of the NAACP.” They would do so after having destroyed another good civil-rights organization. “Comrade Davis,” wrote Wilkins, “was supported by others who recently ‘sneaked’ into the organization with the avowed intent and purpose of converting it into a front for the Stalinist line.” Wilkins knew well that this was a standard “tactic” by the communists; it was known by everyone involved in the NAACP at the time. Wilkins, like many civil-rights leaders of his time, refused to be duped by Davis and his comrades.”[4]

FACTS:  The letter was written TO Roy Wilkins, not BY Roy Wilkins.  Wilkins had a reputation of denouncing communists within the civil rights movement [36].  Falsely attributing these remarks to Wilkins greatly enhanced their credibility.  I can find no evidence in this report that Wilkins had any opinion of Davis.

References have been deleted to avoid the AIM “spam filter.”  They are available on my blog at my.barackobam.com under Kaleokualoha.

For me the problem is the fictional narrative of Sen. Obama woven by mainstream media, compared to the facts on file about Obama, often in his own words, directly from his books.

In both books, he notes the wise counsel of Jeremiah Wright and Michael Pfleger.

Furthermore, in ‘Dreams From My Father’ he wrote: “I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night, in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism. Franz Fanon, Eurocentrism, and patriarchy.” (pg. 100)

Aside from that, look at his platform. Redistribution of wealth, a stifling energy policy, socialized healthcare.

If it walks like a duck and quacks…

I agree that Barack Obama should be subject to rigorous scrutiny, but it should be based on facts rather than speculation misrepresented as fact.

Edward Berman’s testimony is contained in the America’s Survival pdf document at http://www.usasurvival.org/docs/hawaii-obama.pdf, Exhibit 4A (approximately 60% down the pdf document.

If this document actually contains evidence that DAVIS tried to take over the NAACP in order to transform its Honolulu branch into a front for the Stalinist line, rather than others taking this action at previous meetings, please advise where I went wrong.

Otherwise, the “blatant fraud and deception” Kincaid mentions rests not in any AP sin of omission, but rather in Kincaid’s sin of commission!

BTW:  Cliff Kincaid is undoubtedly aware that as Frank Marshall Davis’s “alleged son,” I previously acknowledged the credible evidence that my father joined the CPUSA during WWII.  That is no longer a point of contention.  For Kincaid to state, at this point, that I have no credibility BECAUSE I denied his membership is rather telling.  If a single error, since corrected, erases all credibility, then the mountain of DOCUMENTED Kincaid misrepresentation should place him in a credibility deficit somewhere between Baron Munchhausen and George W. Bush

I,m not surprised about the media manipulating. Various website where they ask who should win state totally different results every time you log in and check the results. First result when i voted for Mc Cain was 79333 for Obama, 12479 for Mc Cain. Seccond time i checked results it was 79144 for Obama, 12459 for Mc Cain. The result hovers since weeks at around 79000 for Ob. and 12000 for Cain. Even day one had the same results which is impossible in my view. In my view a lot of websites make their own results but quite a few are so stupid to do it in a obvious matter.
What’s going on. Is the media all owned including slowly but surely the web by one group??

Four years from now, people will be saying: “Who was that guy that ran against McCain”.

Mark,
You admitted your father, Frank, was a commie. That’s all that matters. I don’t care about the rest of the cut and paste spam. Obama’s mentor was a commie, case closed.

The AP can’t be trusted to report the truth because they are in the tank for Obama so that now becomes the story. The headlines across all wire services should read:
Obama’s childhood mentor and biggest influence was a commie during WW2. The Associated Press once again betrayed all Americans by covering it up.

Mike wrote:  “You admitted your father, Frank, was a commie. That’s all that matters. I don’t care about the rest of the cut and paste spam. Obama’s mentor was a commie, case closed.”

RESPONSE:  Obviously more than that matters to other people, Mike.  Otherwise AIM would not have spent all that time creating the stories about my father’s influence on Obama.

Why do you think that McCain’s campaign is not publicizing the story?  Are they also “in the tank for Obama”?  Please advise.  Thanks!

Speaking of lies:  Kincaid wrote “And AP doesn’t note the evidence that Davis and his comrades tried to take over the NAACP in order to transform its Honolulu branch into a front for the Stalinist line.”

For those of you who actually READ the Romerstein report at the America’s Survival website, and actually intend to CONSIDER the evidence:

B1: What “evidence” should AP have noted in this regard?  PLEASE be specific.

B2: Does it actually say that “Davis and his comrades tried to take over the NAACP” for any reason at all?  (No)

B3:  Does it even say that “Davis and his comrades tried to take over the Honolulu branch of the NAACP” for any reason at all? (No)

B4: Does it say that that Davis tried to transform the “Honolulu Branch into a front for the Stalinist line”?  (No)

(I understand that some of you may have the attitude “Evidence, schmevidence!  We don’t need no stinkin’ evidence!”  For those with this attitude, once again I apologize for wasting your time . . . )

Geesh, but the above comments seem to have largely missed the substance of the entire report: UnAmerican Marxism encroaching into the very nexus of US government influences! Kincaid is to be commended for exposing the TRUTH over overwhelming odds.

You know what still bothers me? the vulnerability of the electronic voting machines.  It has been proven they can be rigged.  Maybe that is some of the “steam” in O(bomination’s) engine.
  I am aghast that the Democrats, CIA, CSI, HOMELAND SECURITY AND OTHERS HAVE NOT ORDERED OBAMA TO PRODUCE HIS ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
  “Hawaii doesn’t give out that information”  HOG WASH. I’m sure the FBI or Homeland Security could
force the issue.
  Hamas, the PA, the Communist Party are openly backing him.  Google, I read this morning will no
longer run anti-Obama pieces.  “free press?” To
me that is blantant discrimination, though they excuse themselves in checking sites of “quality”  and I guess if it doesn’t meet THEIR criteria, you get dropped.
  I’m made as blazes   I email articles like a
printing press at work.  I am so proud of the Republicans so stayed in session when Pelosi turned off the lights, shut down the mikes and sent the press away.  And I am an independent, voting the person, not the party.  I am in th
3-6% approval rating of this congress.
  Read yesterday House passed only 290 bills (near
record low)  30% of them were for naming Post Offices and one to name “national watermelon week or month (don’t remember which time period).
  WE DESPARERATELY NEED TO GET A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS AND SENATE BACK IN… ESPECIALLY IF (or
since?  Ob(noxious) is elected.  They were sure better than these do nothing Democrasts.

Interesting stories. One question I have always had about the magic negro is how he managed his way through all those very expensive schools and exotic trips around the globe? Was his Grandma in Kansas rich? I am assuming since mom seemed to be a bit of a drifter, she had some source fo income also. (Please don’t tell me to read his book. After the Manifesto and Mein Kampf, I am a bit leary about trusting future dictators). SO how did he do it? What groups were behind him on hos trip through the ages. I lived in Hawaii around the same time he was there and it wasn’t cheap then either. The answer folks is to follow the money. Obamalama-ding dong has some splaining to do.

Kincaid said: “Davis was not a “journalist” in any real sense of the term. He was a propagandist and racial agitator … “

In this instance, cannot this statement just as easily be applied to Kincaid himself? 

And, instead of all the paranoids getting their underwear twisted into a big, tight knot about some deceased black guy’s membership in the Communist Party U.S.A. 40 or 50 years ago – - if they’re all so stridently and “patriotically” anti-Communist – - why the hell aren’t they protesting the politicians and businesses in this country who are in bed with the Communist Chinese “for profit”?

Or protesting the incredible imbalance of trade with the Communist Chinese?  Or protesting the fact that the U.S. is financing its record-breaking national debt with loans from Communist China?  Or protesting the historical and significant human rights violations in Communist China?  Or protesting the staging of the 2008 Olympics in Communist China?

Sounds like nickel-and-dime hypocrisy to me – - and the hypocrites are criticizing Obama because, as a youth, they’re SPECULATING he “MIGHT” have been influenced in some way or another in his political thinking (at age 11) by an old black poet with membership in the Communist Party U.S.A. – - BUT THEY’RE NOT CRITICIZING the politicos and businesspeople who are actually and actively WORKING WITH and PARTNERING with COMMUNIST CHINA as we speak! 

And, note that American citizens have actually been contemporarily HARMED by pharmaceuticals, food stuffs, and children’s toys brought here from Communist China through the efforts of ostensibly “upstanding” American politicians and big businesses!

To be bitchin’ about one and not the other is friggin’ hypocritical and stupid.  If some paranoid is actively “against Communism and Communists” – - then he or she should be actively against ALL Communism and Communists – - at all times and in all ways!

But, hey, around here I guess Conservative Republican Communism is OK and only Liberal Democratic Communism is bad ?!?!?!  (Especially if it involves black guys!)

What a pile of crap!

One doesn’t need to apply for a Communist Party USA membership to endorse communism.

Hence is why Obama shall not get my vote.

Liberals always try to change the subject.Nit picking about if he sneaked in or not makes no difference. He was a known communist wrote articles for commie papers. What more do you need? It’s disgracful how the Democrats continue to cover up for former communists in their party. Hell, they have plenty in their party now.
Liberals should know all about Chinese influence. How many millions did Clinton get from the Chicoms? How much did he get for reelection from the Chicoms? How many of his supporters fled the country to avoid grand jury testimony? I guess liberals are only concerned with communists when they can accuse the Republicans of trading with them. Of course the Democrats never traded with them. Brain dead liberals

Communism ceased to be a threat to the United States twenty years ago. Why are you having panic attacks about some alleged Commie connection of Obama’s? Don’t forget that Communism had two aspects: on the one hand it was the ideology of a geopolitically hostile power which used it as an excuse to oppress its population and expand abroad. On the other hand Communism was a movement that defended workers’ rights in many non-Communist countries, and did so ably and courageously. Now that the USSR is no more, it is this second aspect of Communism that becomes relevant. In France, Chile and many other countries Communist parties have renounced their totalitarian past and become simply political parties like any other. This beating the anti-Communist tom-tom is ridiculous and obviously manipulative. In today’s America, workers need as much help as they can get to ward off the class warfare that the Republicans and the federal government have waged against them ever since President Reagan’s day. The median wage is today worth less in real terms than it was 35 years ago. On the other hand the fat cats are raking it in. While wages have stagnated, profits have exploded. In a situation like this, I think Communists are much less of a threat than are right-wing crackpots.

Everyone that’s commenting on this page just cracks me up. Of course the Liberal Media is just an extension of the BHO campaign. Just watch CNN for an hour or so, it’s nothing but political ad with nothing but the same talking points with no reporting, just the “party line”.

By obsessing about race, the media obscure the fact that Obama is a stealth, Marxist candidate.

Seriously, why don’t you all open your minds a bit. What is really wrong with associating and discussing ideas with all types of people? How can you really get a good feel for the world when you don’t expose youself to people with different world view’s than your own? What sort of foriegn policy would we have if we did not do this?

Also, really…why do we have to act like we’re in the 1950’s? Is it necessary for you all to tear down our constitution here? Remember, that is what they did back then, ripped it to shreds.
Not disregarding all of the McCarthyism going on here, think about the Orwellian nature of conservative politics…you all do know what they do behind the scenes, right? Hell, all of them do, Democrats, too. But that gives no government…ESPECIALLY OURS…the right to persecute others based on political association, or knowing and debating with a communist/undesirable.

Read the history books, and obtain a grown up’s perspective for god’s sake. Get a little culure and hang out with peole who are not like minded…you might learn why others have views that differ from your own…and learn why socialism has shaped our country into a more livable one (ie: womens rights, racial equality, equitable living standards, providing for our children, having social security, clean water/air/environment, providing for our elderly and disabled, etc)

It’s really not that bad, and our founding fathers were all for it before socialism had a name, was deemed a dirty word and a sordid thing to be.

Seriously, why this culture of Fear?
*hugs*

“… equitable living standards, providing for our children, having social security, … providing for our elderly and disabled, etc …”

None of those activities are the Constitutional or legitimate functions of our government. Our government is supposed to protect our individual rights, lives, and liberty, not to ensure we get 3 squares, a comfortable retirement and a TV to entertain us. A right is not an entitlement.

That is the issue here: the collectivist (communist/socialist) influence on Barack Hussein Obama and his stated agenda of increasing government control over individuals.

Since when does a responsible economic policy and safety net for the citezens of a nation constitute big government? This connectivity has elluded me for as long as I can remember. If you ask me, the only thing I want my government to really do is to provide safe and effective infrasructures for our citzens, and provide an economic safety net. To me, that sounds like small government. I’d prefer if presidents and congress people DID not try to legislate my freedom like most conservatives do.

It would be better stated like this:
Conservatives believe in larger government control over your freedoms (stated or secretive), minimal government control over economics.

Liberals believe in minimal control over freedoms (they are the champions of human and civil rights), and larger government provisions for it’s people.

Really, which is better…providing for your ailing/frail/economically disadvantaged mother, father, spouse, or child or just leaving them to die/starve/have no upward mobility and putting it off as not your (Govt’s) problem?

That’s not very nice.

Oh, and sorry about the misspellings…my boss was quietly gazing over my shoulder. I was distracted, therefore, I did not proofread

Heather, you’re almost there.

Your definition of liberal is correct in the classic Jeffersonian view of government, however modern “liberals/progressives” are more properly described as social authoritarians and collectivists.

I share your objection to so-called “conservatives” attempts to legislate morality. That is no proper function of government and verges on establishment of state religion.

Jeffersonian liberals would (and in fact did) advocate for minimal government control over economics.

Providing for the poor and frail is charity. Charity is by definition voluntary.

Welfare supplied by the government must be extracted under threat of imprisonment from someone other than those who benefit and is thus morally abhorrent. “Social Security” was sold to our ancestors as an insurance-like annuity when in fact it is welfare (wealth redistribution) extracted from those who work and paid to those who’ve retired.

Providing for your well-being and retirement is your own responsibility. The government’s only role is to stay out of your way as you provide for your own survival.

You should read more about the US Constitution and the form of government it created and which our politicians have perverted. You can find the Constitution, the Articles of Confederation, the Declaration of Independence and the Federalist Papers on this site: http://federali.st/

Ah, John…you are right about that. I am a bit of a Jeffersonian…he is my favorite.

I hope you understand why some responses on here seem rediculous to me. I just can’t understand why people cannot wade through the flood of misinformation we’ve been given. I just wish people were more well informed, I suppose.

BTW, thanks for the link…I love researching this kind of thing, and I have yet to make it all the way to the Federalist papers.

Heather, it’s somewhat ironic that Jefferson’s political party was called the “Democratic-Republican” party, is it not?

One more nit to pick, Heather:

“… Conservatives believe in larger government control over your freedoms …”

If you examine the laws that most restrict individual freedom (e.g., gun laws, smoking bans, helmet laws, trans-fat food bans, etc.) you will notice a pattern of liberal/progressive agenda. It is they who most restrict individual freedom in their efforts to force people into certain behaviors “for their own good.” This is what I mean by social authoritarian.

If you hear someone say “There ought to be a law!” listen carefully and you’ll find an attempt to restrict Liberty or an attempt to steal your hard-earned property from you “for the public good.”

I was totally amazed at the response referencing the Communists backing, as opposed to the lack of response of the others who also back him.  I found that very interesting.
  I also found it very interesting that having spent the last 2 days in the hospital, my local paper had nothing about this fracas on the front page at all… haven’t looked passed that page, as I figured it would be headline news.
In addition to Google no longer accepting anything anti-Obame,  I’m now a wee bit concerned about msn.  Too frequently, when another site is highlighted in an article I’m reading, when I click onto that site, I get the page saying this page cannot be viewed, or whatever it is. It won’t come up.  Guess I’ll have to change internet connector.
  Now, it appears that we have as common media which may be “free?”  but it surely is BIASED for
Obama! Seems to me, at least, that if we want NEWS
we have to revert to the internet, until or unless
the FCC get’s a Democratic Chairman, which would
sway a vote for or against any revisions, additions, deletions of FCC rules.  This would be
very important on the Fairness Doctrine (what a
deceiving title, lol) and the Broadcasters Freedom Act.  But that’s another story by itself.
Getting back to just my opinions only on Obama::
I CANNOT VOTE FOR HIM BECAUSE:
1. Hamas openly is pulling for him.
2. The Communists are openly pulling for him.
3. The PA would like to see him get in.
4. His continued refusal to bring forth his birth certificate for examination and validation, I find extremely puzzling, and to me only, gives room for suspicion as to why he refuses.  They investigated McCain; dropped any on Obama.  I’m
not afraid/ashamed/stiff-necked to show mine; are you?  My inquiring mind wants to know.
5. He sponsored S-2433, the Global Poverty Act, and unless you’re in a coma, you should realize
it will cost the U.S. $84+ BILLION, 7% of our GNP,
and since certain goals, protocols, etc, are already in place in the UN, SOME OF WHICH THE U.S. HAS NEVER RATIFIED, we will then become compliant to them, and, as I see it, the result could be that we might lose the right to bear arms small/ weaponry; they want a standing UN army and I really DON’T want that.  Each nation has it’s own military, and some spend so much on their military and its research & development, their own people suffer because of it..as I see it.  Also, education for children 1-12th grades sounds like a noble thing..BUT UNDER WHOSE CRITERIA WILL BE FALL?????? 
  Already in some schools in America,  Islam is openly taught or taught under other subjects, such as history, social studies.. whatever.  Considering how Pelosi is running this House: A ‘VOICE VOTE’ FOR SUCH A HUMONGOUS BILL, BUT A STAND UP VOTE FOR SOME AMERICAN INDIAN TRIBE AND A CASINO (or whatever it was).  Is THAT a display of where her priorities are??? 
5. I see him as flip-flopping more than a revolving door revolves:
  Speaks to a Jewish Group and says he does not want Jerusalem divided, then comes back to “clarify” it meaning he didn’t want to see a fence down the middle.
  He is FOR Planned Parenthood, likely the nation’s largest abortion provider, but says fatherhood begins at conception?  Try & connect THOSE dots.
  How he can be for PP, after the fiasco of PP getting a call from a man saying he wanted to pay for an abortion for a minority female… too many black kids, and the PP person laughs and says she
understands!!!!  WHERE WAS THE NAACP AND THE ACLU ON THAT ONE? Abracadabra, they disappear from view?  I am Pro-Life; I believe not only fatherhood begins at conception, but motherhood also, again in my opinon only.
6. Did he really go to Kenya in Dec 06, after being elected Senator the month before, and criticize THEIR President, and yet was standing on a podium with the President’s opponent, Odinga, who might just happen to be of the same Kenyan family tribe as Obama’s?  If the visit did occur, as I read on a couple sites, BEING A BRAND NEW SENATOR..WHAT WOULD Y O U R PRIORITIES BE?  He hadn’t even sat in a seat as Senator yet!  I may be wrong, but as I recollect reading, there was some civil upheaval following that election.
7. I am NOT a racist. I would have voted for Colin Powell in a heartbeat.
8. He has refused OPEN DEBATE with the repeated requests from McCain.  I believe it is because there wouldn’t be a teleprompter for him to read off of.  If he CANNOT DEBATE HIS OWN FELLOW SENATOR, HOW IN THE WORLD IS HE GOING TO ‘DEBATE’ WITH FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS. Come on, get real. The
3 coming debates, I have my own self-debate about: are the questions limited to certain subjects only? Negotiated?  Will each Senator be given a list of questions that can/cannot be approached?  Not the same as a real OPEN DEBATE!
9. Personally..just me.. I view him as a puppet with his strings tangled up, leaving me to wonder how many strings are attached.  Did Jesse Jackson’s “live mike” reveal what his group really thinks of him?
10. He distanced himself from those who helped get him where he is. Was that just “use ‘em and lose ‘em, or was it just bad judgment of character?  If it was the latter, you must remember he will be making some very important appointments.
11. He didn’t display the American Flag on his 5 days of (my quote marks) “foreign relations experience.”  It seemed more like, this is Tuesday, it must be Paris,  just like any other tourist. But he did replace the flag with a Big O!
To me, that was a BIG “Oh, Oh!”
12. I’ve read that, aside from a photo op with a few troops, he pretty much ignored them.  I’ll even give him the benefit of doubt on that, though, as it was a quick trip.
13. The video of him flip-flopping about the surge of troops was more like a comedy than his
stance(s) on it.
Oh, I could go on and on….. And I have probably left out some of the more important reasons why I personally cannot vote for him. 
  I WILL GIVE HIM ALONE CREDIT FOR ONE THING::::
HE HAS POSITIVELY REVEALED HOW ABSOLUTELY BIASED
(or controlled maybe???) OUR COMMON MEDIA IS, AND
THAT, MY FRIENDS……IS SCARY !! If this Congress succeeds in reviving the Fairness Doctrine, which I see as UNFAIR as it would make the talk show host GIVE equal time to opposing views.  LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL… as if our common media itself is doing that !!! I called Congressman Pence within an hour after coming home from a Cardiac Cath (good results, PTL) to
congratulate him….. I saw NOTHING in our local paper… and THIS, PEOPLE,  IS REPORTABLE, IMPORTANT N E W S.

  If you want to start another subject, HOW ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN ‘SIT IN’ after Pelosi turns out the lights, shuts off the mikes and lets the press go.  I GREATLY ADMIRE AND APPLAUD THEM, and
I am NOT a dyed in the wool anything.  I am in the
3-6% approval of THIS Congress. I vote the person, not the party.

John,
We must remember that Republicans were the true progressives back in the day…NOT the DEMS. It switched at some point, and forgive my ignorance, because I cannot remember exactly when, but I do know that it did occur.

Also, I do agree with you about the social auhoritarianism of a lot of Dems…but we get to vote on that at least (not that I agree with it). I must say that if given a choice, I would prefer it to the moral authoritarianism of the Conservatives.

Sadly…it’s starting to sound like we are the way the rest of the world views us.
*sigh*

see above… wouldn’t take it first time I sent it

Funny thing about those liberal laws restricting our freedoms—how about the freedom for an individual woman who is a free moral agent to choose to terminate a pregnancy?  You may “believe” that a two-celled zygote is a human being, but I don’t. Where do you get off telling me what I can do with my body?  You don’t want an abortion, then don’t have one, but leave me alone!  True conservatives, in the libertarian tradition, would never be anti-choice. Right, John?

Carolyn says, “Having spent the last two days in the hospital, my local paper had nothing about this fracas….”

Your local paper was in the hospital, Carolyn? Well, no wonder it couldn’t publish a story about the fracas!

I have a hard time placing any credence in the rants of a poster who can’t even construct a simple grammatical sentence.

Kudos, Nell…stop the hypocritical ignorance!

To His Emminence, Mr. Professor Galt – Re: #25:

This particular post (#25) is the perfect example of your incessant, knows-no-bounds, holier-than-thou, I know it all, I know it best, I grant my imprimatur – - “Pontificating”!

Geez!  Pope John Galt LXIX.

Encyclically yours! Forever!

Talk about a post resulting in a good laugh!

Can’t you just let people make their points, describe their perspectives, offer their opinions – - and leave it at that – - without having to obsessively and compulsively tell them where they’re wrong (wholly in your non-objective and spin-dizzied opinion, of course)?

Apparently, you never make an original post yourself!

You just sit back there in the dark – - lurking – - waiting for a post you can pounce on and – - PONTIFICATE about!  The “Official Responder”!  The “Official Intervenor”!  The “Official Instructionist”!  The “Official Grader Of All Posts”!  The “Authority of All Authorities”!

And GOPS complain that Gore, Kerry and Obama were/are arrogant!

Geez!  And I thought Limbaugh and Hannity were the most self-important and insufferable bores around!

Geez!

Mr. Professor Galt, sir, your very emminent emminence, may I now please have your very important and desirable approval and your special personal permission to leave the class at this time and go to the bathroom?

Geez!

In fact – - DOUBLE Geez!

Ah, nice. Now we yell.
But thanks for bringing up that point, TK…and also, for being awesome in post #15, which I must say is an EXTREMELY valid point.
And also to Carol Stoll, whose points were so right on, they made me blush.

Ah,hell Kudos to all 3 of us for standing up for what we believe in, and for not being mislead by fear and ignorance.

Yay!
Now lets get along in the spirit of cooperative living, or dare I say…Socialism.

Interesting how when you get the ultrasound at the abortion clinic, the tech turns the monitor away so you can’t see the face of the two-celled zygote. Funny how that works.

85Yota:
Have you ever had one, or known someone who has…or been at the clinic (which is not specifically or primarily for abortions, therefore you should not call it an abortion clinic)?
I have been to a Womens Health Clinic. They DO NOT turn the monitor away from you…and you know what…it’s also still the persons choice, not yours.
Those doctors try to do what they can, within the law and medicinal ethics, to make sure that you know how a decision like that will effect you and obviously the outcome of the pregnancy. They offer other options, discuss them with you, offer counseling, mandate a waiting period…and SHOW YOU THE MONITOR!

Don’t speak on speculatory BS. It’s not helping your agenda.
And on that note, it is certainly not up to you or anyone else to legislate anyone’s body. Period.

Get off your high horse.

“… Where do you get off telling me what I can do with my body? …”

I don’t Nell. Re-read my opinion above about attempts to legislate morality.

Whether or not I believe a zygote has inalienable rights, it remains that one is both alive and human just as any cell or cells extracted from your body are. The abortion question is a moral question to be answered privately by those individuals who are involved, not by the government.

TK, if you don’t find my opinions useful or interesting, you are free to ignore them. That is not my permission, but your right.

High horse? Whatever Ms Agenda. FYI: I’ve had 2 abortions. There have been 11 in my immediate family (beginning with my maternal grandmother) that I’m aware of. Matter of fact, my eldest daughter is going to Eugene OR to have one tomorrow. She can’t have it in Ashland because she is 13 weeks and the only staff clinician able to perform the procedure at that gestational point, is on vacation. And yes, technically the term isn’t abortion clinic but we all know what I’m referring to. So take your assumptions and place them back where they came from. You know, YOUR AGENDA. And FYI: I’ve had an abortion in North Hollywood CA and Portland OR. In both facilities the monitor was purposely turned away, and not at my request. However during ultrasounds performed during pregnancies that I have taken to term, the monitor was openly displayed, so I have seen the face, etc… That said, shove your assumptions up whatever bodily orfice is most readily available. If I had gloves handy, I’d gladly assist you.

85Yota I have tears streaming down my face as I read your posting #40. My family too has been devastated by abortion. For every life lost in this, another is so altered…well, there are a lot of tears down the road. All the children, all the little ones are ripped from our families. Some choice.

Keep up the great work Mr. Kincaid. As we both
know, the thing which radical liberals and
communists seem to hate most is for the “light of truth” to be focused on their positions and messianic politicians. It is the revelation of the
shortcomings of both that just make their teeth
grind. The two stock phrases they take refuge in
most often are, “all truth is relative” [so they
believe anything they say is ‘truth,” objectivity
notwithstanding, and are always quick to condemn
those views at variance with their own. Maybe truth isn’t relative or objective, just progressive. [Note please: not all liberals are communists, and some do believe in objective
truth. The problem is that they seem to be “relatively” few and far between. Also,
independents and conservatives have glaring faults.—my disclaimer of perfection for any].
“I am the master of my fate.” Do they not know
how shallow and contradictory that cliche sounds?
If it were “objectively true,” the graveyards would be at least half empty. Could it be why
they defend the abortionists’ clinics and their trash cans..do they really think they are saving
those innocent babies from a hole in the ground
later on? Or is it just a matter of total unconcern for an inconvenient “burden.” That is
the term the radical liberal, Barack Hussein Obama
used in a speech he gave and mentioned his own
“daughters.” Remember that? It would be good to
remember also that, while a state senator, he
supported legislation that allowed “post-birth”
abortions. Hey, its your body, and God forbid you
should take responsibility for the outcome of your lustful indulgences. Hey, since you alone decide what’s right and wong for you..isn’t it
great to be able to count everything you do as
right..even if it takes an innocent person’s life.
But again, your “convenient” pleasures are meant
to trump any possible “consequences.” Or so it
seems to you. Just maybe sociopathic unconcern
for human life is more widespread than has been
reported. Now a few words about Barack Hussein Obama.
  He is an arrogant,elitist, radical liberal who
thinks of himself as a political messiah..born
to change the USA into a socialist, soviet type
state. Of course, he envisions himself as the chief character in an oligarchical group that will
get to dictate all of our lives “according to the
gospel of Obama.” His speeches are really second-
rate, and his ideas out of the post WWII democratic playbook. This was quite evident in his speech in Germany—where the socialist Europeans swooned and consumned the free booze he gave them. No wonder they cheered him…just like the Oregon crowd did after the free concert he treated them to. But take away the “freebies” and the “teleprompters”and then one ears, “uh,” “and,” and other confused symbols
like…“you know.” I hope you do. The last person we need as our president is one who is a product of professors, domestic terrorists, and the
Chicago political machine. It is true that a person is to some extent a reflection of his/her
past influences, training and experiences. It takes no genuis, which I am not, to see his lack
of respect for our flag, military and traditions.
He once was a socialist organizer—in the Saul
Alinsky mode—who rants about all of the evils
and shortcomings of the USA…and he is still
obssessed with that method, which he seems to be
long on. But, he is short on substantive issues
and solutions. His recent lie that all we need to
do is to “inflate our tires and get a tune-up” to
solve our “oil crisis” is one of the most ill informed statements I have ever heard. it is
simply another example of “show without substance”
which continues to plague his campaign. Keep it
up “Barry.” That is your real name, or is it?
“Oblame-a” might be more suitable..since you major in blaming the USA rather than praising
the nation and its people for their achievements.

John, I have read your posts and I expected that you would agree with me on the abortion issue. That’s why I said, “Right, John?”  Sorry that wasn’t clear.

“The abortion question is a moral question to be answered privately by those individuals who are involved, not the government.”

I couldn’t have said it better, John.  Women cannot fully participate in society if they are not free to exercise moral agency over their own bodies.

Interesting piece on opinionjournal.com today about Stalinism and Nazism…

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121807494680219349.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

cliff: you assclown, you obviously have your hat on inside out. remember: shiny side out!

your method of connecting things would likely prove fascinating to a therapist, as a study in disconnection and cognitive dissonance.

and i love the way you can be parroted across the frothing loon blogosphere as some sort of authority.
it only shows how gullible some people can be.

remember: shiny side out!
remember: shiny side out!
remember: shiny side out!
remember: shiny side out!
remember: shiny side out!
remember: shiny side out!
remember: shiny side out!

Mr. Kincaid,

Stay in there slugging!  This info has to burst out of the blogs and onto the national scene before the general election.

By the way, Ayers and Dohrn wouldn’t have given Obama the time of day, if they weren’t of like mind.

One thing that comes through time and again regarding Senator Obama – those around him are not the kind of people one likes to associate with the presidency.  You are known by the friends you keep.

So, what else is new? The media, TV, radio, Magazines, newspapers, are all in love with the self-annointed messiah. We’re being Obama’d to death and we’re getting fed up. Look at the latest polls . . . he’s not as popular as the media and the DNC wants him to be. Once he clenches the nomination I hope the Republicans publicize all his neferious dealings and connections. We need him as President as much as we need $20/gal gasoline, or Osama Bin Laden as Chief of Homeland Security.

To 85Yota, the fact that you would boast of the murder of children as if you were throwing away a disposable water bottle says plenty about the kind of people that Obama attracts, irresponsible, self-centered, selfish, angry, hateful creatures that only appear on the outside to be remotely human.  Hopefully, one day when your children decide to pull the plug on you just to get the inheritance because they figured you were disposable too you will see the folly of the kind of hatred you have manifested in your life.

OMG.  If he gets elected we are so screwed.  How can anyone of good conscience vote this man into office.  Too bad the “mainstream” media has abrogated their responsibility to report the truth. Our country ends without a fair, honest, open and truthful job of investigating and reporting the facts regardless of where they lay.

The following is for Diana #41; and Paul #49:

I agree with you Diana. I was very young when I had my first abortion. The second was when I was married to an abusive husband and I caved to his pressure. That said, I purposely wrote my post brutally to get the point across to Heather #37 that she was full of garbage trying to say that clinicians don’t turn away monitors. I know that’s not true, and while I might not have thought about why it was done when I was a teen, I knew exactly why it was done when I was married. Do I think abortion’s right in any circumstance? No I really don’t, unless the woman’s life is actually in danger. And I’d like to add that my daughter didn’t go today. When she told me she was going to abort, I asked her if she’d thought about not doing it. She said NO and walked out of the room. Last night I decided to give it a shot. I let her know that if she was doing it for financial concerns, I’d help out with the prenatal and delivery. And if she was doing it because she felt overwhelmed by the additional responsibility and work, (she has 3 other kids) I’d help out there too. Long story short. She was to have left at 9AM today for Eugene. She didn’t leave. Said she’d decided not to go.  There was a time, I viewed abortion as ‘in the best interests’ of women and their right to control their own bodies. I never considered the child within, or the right of the child to be protected and have a measure of control over their own bodies. I don’t see abortion as a religious issue. I see it as an issue of protecting and advocating for those who cannot do so for themselves. I have only recently come to this thought-line. I previously was massively pro-abortion. The closer I look, the more I am struck by what pawns and a less-than class of citizens our children are. Property to be discarded if they threaten to inconvenience our life-style either temporarily or longer term. I’m not talking about medical necessity here. I’m talking about the willingness of people who in their own self interest choose to be sloppy with birth control; or disregard alternative methods; or have bad things happen to them, not through any choice of their own; or mitigate responsibility for the outcomes of their own behaviors that don’t always turn out for the ‘best’. A life is a life. I simply don’t any longer support the cushioning of consequences for the ‘#### happens’ of life. If I could reverse the consequences of my son’s broken neck, by all means I would. It happened. We deal with it and do just fine. If I could’ve foreseen his current physical status back when he resided in my womb, would he have been the number twelve on my family list of abortions? Probably. Am I glad he wasn’t? HELL YES. I believe we have a duty to our children, both born and unborn. That duty is to protect them, and work for them, and have a life that may be a bit harder for us for the sake of them. And if we’re not willing to do that, we have a duty to entrust them to someone else who is willing. We cannot predict who will have a ‘good’ life. But we can afford our children the opportunity to experience life, and make of it what they will regardless of their circumstances. And for anyone who has mistaken me for an Obama supporter, all I can say is HELL NO. I might have been dumb enough to go with The One when I was a teen or a twentysomething, but there’s NO WAY in Hell that Fraud will ever get my vote. I’m voting John McCain (even though he wasn’t my first choice) because I’ll do whatever it takes to keep Obama out of the WhiteHouse. I love my country and if McCain is the way to stop Obama, then McCain it is.

What were the actual AP “lies”?  Could somebody list the false statements please?

Sounds like some people have a MAJOR problem admitting that AP is in the tank for obama.  (along with ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, NPR, TIME, NEWSWEEK and 90% of America’s newspapers and countless radio stations and TV stations).

Gee, I can’t see the forest because all those damn trees are in the way!!

Obama and most of the prominent democrats are commies too as far as I’m concerned.  I keep wondering when and where they’ll put the hammer and sickle on the flag when the time comes.

They’re the ones that want to “take those oil company profits and use them…!” (to buy votes for sure).  Yet they’re the same ones running around screaming at republicans “Fascists!!!”

The obama campaign is telling the press what they can’t talk about.  (ears, wright, color, religion etc….) yet they call conservatives “Nazi’s!!”

They’re so cute!  They’re gonna lose, the shine is off “The ONE”. 

(for the record, I’m tired of being called a RACIST!!  every time I disagree with something the man says)

They’re seeing he can’t speak, unless he’s reading from a speech somebody else wrote.  The man can’t string more than a few words together on his own without going “Uh… Mmmm…. Ah…uhhh”

Eight minutes of this, out of a speech that was about thirty minutes…..  (and not one of those was repeated, thanks Rush!)

“—uh, uh, uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, uhh, is…?  Uh, is of—of their work, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, we, uh, uh, I called, uh, uh, and I’m—I’m—Uh, with, uh, uh, as, uh, that, uh, and uh, uh, um, uh—And we have to do this, uh, uh. As—as well as, eh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh. Well, uh.  I, uh, uh, uh, um. We, uh, and, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh. Uh, now, uh, right now and then identify if—if, uh, you want to, uh, uh, uhhhh. Ummmm. That’s—that’s a bunch.  Umm, so let me tick these off.  Um, it is true that, uh, uh, uh, uhhh, uh, uh. What, uh, uhhh, uh, and, uh, uh, in I-iraq, uh, uh, are seen as, uh—and so, uh, uh, uhhh, uh, uh, and if I was—i-if I were in his shoes, uh, uh, uhh, and so, uh, a, uh, um, uh, from some—someplace else, uh, theeee, uh—and, uh, t’see, uhhh, that, uhhh—”

85Yota, post #51.

Nice post. Thank you.

All individuals have inalienable rights. It is when the rights of one conflict with the rights of others that the hard questions and ugly fights are spawned.

The ugly abortion fight is over the incredibly tough and emotional question of when a fetus/child becomes an individual and thus has rights to be protected. I doubt that question will ever be answered satisfactorily for everyone.

1-202-224-3121 is the number of the Wash. DC switchboard. They can connect you with your Rep. or Sen.  An aide will answer.  I would presume that a “tally” is kept of pro/con.
  I keep giving that info to my small address book, along with pieces of information about what is happening…THE NEWS IS BLACKED OUT APPARENTLY
But, I doubt that maybe 2 will pick up the phone.
  I went out and bought a $40 fax machine, and it paid for itself the first week.  Faxes are best.
Calls might be busy and people don’t keep at it.
Letters have to go through a cleansing process, delaying their receipt.  E-mails?  better than nothing, I guess.
  I just read the following:
George Stephanopoulous: “If (Republicans) want to offer a drilling proposal,  why can’t they have a vote?”
PELOSI, “They they, they, they’ll have to use their imaginations to get a vote.”
Is that a Democrat, dictator, or both?  What does she think we are, deaf/dump sheep?  Well, she might get that impression from her underlings
of her House democrats, but not the American people.
  Do you remember Pelosi saying that when the Dems. took the Majority, she promised, “open, full and fair debate.”  To me, that was an out and out lie, just to get elected.  Same as their
saying THIS would be a “transparent government.”
Well, maybe THAT came through (belatedly):  We can see right through them NOW, and I don’t like what I see.  DO YOU????
  THERE HAS TO BE A HUNMONGOUS OUTCRY FROM THE GRASSROOTS OF AMERICA.  You, me, your kids, your parents, neighbors, e-mail addressees.  IT HAD WORKED BEFORE, AND I PRAY THAT IT ISN’T TOO LATE FOR IT TO WORK AGAIN! We’ve only got maybe 70-80
days, so it really has to be a total DELUGE of calls,faxes, emails, whatever to get vent your opinions or requests for better action from them.
These characters have a self-voted platinum parachute.. they might not even care about being re-elected.. but, it IS a soft job.  Work 8 months, get paid for 12.. plum position, huh?
  At 11:00 ET, CSPAN carried a clip from the Congress, and they are just asking for fair play.
A VOTE   A DEBATE.  Is this still America????
What are our troops over in Iraq defending?  Pelosi’s arrogance?  The House’s inept record?
  I feel I am DEFENDING THE ABSENT TROOPS RIGHT HERE AT HOME FOR THE SAME PURPOSE;  DEFEND AMERICA’S RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS… even if it is from the Democrats, and not the “insurgents” (to be politically correct.)
1-202-224-3121 Wash.DC switchboard.  They’ll connect you.

Carolyn,
It sounds like you are actually rather detached from what the working class americans really want. I am not trying to be crass here, but this thread has an awful lot of misinformation in it…and full of opinions presented as facts.

To stress my previous points, many of you should crack a book or two, then decide what you believe in…don’t let a culture of fear or mass popular conspiracy rhetoric guide your vote or opinion.

I suggest moving to a country that promotes Messianic democracy…you may be happpier there.

It’s amazing.  Of all the reason I listed for NOT voting for Obama, by far the majority was because he is for PP, likely the nation’s largest abortion provider…. when that wasn’t the point I was making.  (mimic Obama: “Let me make myself perfectly clear….”  It was his (to me)
contradictory statement that “fatherhood begains at conception,” to which I added that I felt motherhood also began at conception.
  To abort or not abort is a personal decision. I
truly apologize to any and all who took it personally; it wasn’t meant to be.
  My question is still the same:  if he believes, as he said, that fatherhood begins at conception, how can he then support Planned Parenthood?   
  Let me ask each of you a question of a different sort.  WHY HAS THE COMMON MEDIA PUT A BLACK OUT ON THE BATTLE THAT IS GOING ON NOW WITHIN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES?  I have heard
NOTHING IN THE NEWSPAPERS, ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, ETC.  IT IS NEWS OF THE HIGHEST MAGNITUDE!  WHAT ENORMOUS CONSPIRACY IS AFOOT IN AMERICA?  The Constitution grants us a “free press” but has not the “free press” become maybe a “censored,” or
“biased,” or “controlled” news instead??  I find
this very, very scary, people.  Nothing in the newspapers, either.  Have any of you read/heard
a report on this battle?  Or a running account even remotely close to the OJ Simpson overload of news coverage?  This is a VERY IMPORTANT event.
  News, in countries run by tyrants or dictators, are frequently “state run”..THEY give out what the stations carry.  Has this happened TODAY,  RIGHT HERE IN AMERICA?  I FIND THIS SO
ALARMING, yet, I’m not reading much of it, even on the internet sites, or from “comments” such as these we make here. 
  WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THAT? I’m really curious.

Well I would love to answer that question. I believe that we do have a problem with the press…but it’s on all sides, not just one. It depends on what Americans are concentrating on at the time, what they are afraid of, what the government does or does not want us to focus on…but it also largely depends on the consumer base and the prevalence of a corporatized and unregulated media.
I do not believe that the governmnt IN ANY WAY should monitor and decide what is or is not newsworthy…but I do believe that none of us on either side of the issues would have such an argument (or non argument) over this if this was taken to the supreme court and they finally realized that we are free from the control of the government as far as press goes (for the most part) but not free from the control of the corporations who own and operate our “trustworthy” news sources.
They have their hand in every pocket…in the name of freedom, democracy, and the promotion of economic progress…while what they are really doing is spreading what ever sort of halfnews hybrid whatever entity is trying to promote at that time.

All across the board…no one is happy about this.
In fact at the Democratic Platform meeting I hosted, we all decided that the proliferation of corporate and special interest agenda (no matter what party)in our media needed to be addressed. It was no longer the Gov’t we had to fear…it was those lining thir pockets and selling us goods and/or services that were to be the most feared of all.

Sheesh…that was a lot of typing.

I hope you all think about that. No one from any party likes it, except those who are profiting from it. Not one constituent wants anything but truth…seriously us Dem’s are way sick of it too…

To Heather From Kansas.
  No, I am NOT detached from the working class
Americans.  I was for decades part of the WORKING class.  When information comes from a trusted site, and a statement made is in “quotes”.. and
you see the same on other trusted sites, I feel you can put as much confidence in that as in CNN
FOX ABC, et.  (Remember the Dan Rather fiasco of his “proof” which bloggers proved to be false? That was a trusted news station/news person).
  Heather.. I go back to the post-Depresssion, pre-WWII era.  All the way back to FDR. My husband was in during the Korean Conflict, Viet Nam, the Cuban crisis, etc.  My Son was in Desert Storm, my older son was in during VietNam.
  I LIVED THE HISTORY OF THE LAST 70 YEARS.  I am a first hand “witness” of the political disputes, economic ups/downs….. I am not naive.
  With what is happening TODAY in America, there
SHOULD BE A MEASURE OF MASS CONCERN, AND MAYBE EVEN ‘FEAR.’  Yes.  It IS TIME for America to rise up and confront those for whom they voted to represent them.  Government:101, girl.
  Do you, my dear, accept Pelosi’s statement (about the Republicans asking for a debate/vote on the oil issue.)… her arrogance response:
“They, they, they they’ll just have to use their imaginations to get a vote.”  That she can just
stand up and say, (paraphrased)  let’s go out for 5 weeks.. shut off the lights, turn off the mikes, send the press away?  What word do YOU use
to define such a stance?  That doesn’t alarm YOU?
  Possibly, you’d be happier in another country.
One less “for the people, by the people.”

To Heather.
  THERE ISN’T ENOUGH TIME TO TAKE THIS BLACKED OUT PRESS ISSUE TO THE SUPREME COURT.  We have maybe 70 – 80 days to get his Congress to act
like an constitutional American House of Representatives SHOULD BE doing their jobs!!!!!

I make a plea to each person:  Call your Representatives.  if they are Republican, thank and encourage them.  If they are Democrat, tell them to get back to work!!!!!  AND WORK FAIRLY!

I stopped reading AP a few months ago when I read an article about BO – I forget which one now – that omitted information I knew was material to understanding the news reported.  And again, here, Sudhin Thanawala writes about BO and Frank Davis, even quoting BO’s reference to Frank in his book, but omits the material information that BO omitted Frank’s last name throughout the text!  As a critical reader, I am able to discern that these 2 omissions announce the import of Frank Davis to the BO story.  After all, if you didn’t know the truth would be problematic then, why did you omit it?  However, I am certain that other less astute customers of AP will take the reporter’s surface text as all that is necessary to understand the point of the story.

To HeatherfromKansas – #58:

I believe the “press”, taken to incorporate all the commercial media, i.e., newspapers, magazines, network TV, cable TV, terrestrial radio, and even the Big Money “political websites” – - particularly over the last dozen years and in concert with the explosion of the extreme party politics partisanship that began in the mid-90s – - has generally (and voluntarily) lost its former objectivity and independence – - and has elected to go with whatever agenda and point of view it (each individual medium) has determined is the best way for it to attract greater viewership or readership – - thereby attracting greater amounts of corporate advertising and related dollars – - while increasing the bottom line for itself and its investors.  Each medium is selecting its own niche market – - and is promoting whatever agenda it has determined that the particular market is most interested in!

Limbaugh and Hannity aren’t “journalists” or trained political analysts in an academic sense – - they’re “provacateur-entertainers” catering to the perceived interests of their market segment.  Same for Matthews, Olbermann, et al.  Some, like Coulter, Morris, Savage do it to sell books; others, like Moore, do it to sell movie admissions; some to advertise their comedy acts.

Like everything else today, for the most part, I think the media is NOT so much corrupted by any particular political philosophy but, rather, by profit – - sheer dollars and cents.

And, keep in mind, in terms of the two major political parties, the country, as “chance” would predict, is just about divided in half.  Recent national elections results have been in the “50.75%” to “49.25%” category – - really, just about an even split.  And – - much of the media has seemed to pick one side or the other to favor – - sometimes according to what color state that medium’s audience resides in!

It’s just another extension of so-called “free trade” or “American capitalism”.  No different than commercial marketers picking NASCAR drivers and teams to support.  Those marketers whose drivers and teams win more frequently increase their sales accordingly.  Unfortunately, today, the media has chosen to do the same thing – - supporting its bottom line and investors by attempting to put their brand on the winner.

I believe the only “ideology” involved is the ideology of the almighty dollar.  Some media have chosen to chase the “old, wrinkled and white” segment of the market; others, the “tall, skinny and black” segment.

I guess it’s still a “free” press – - but no longer a “fair” press.  And, to me, there’s no doubt the lack of objectivity in the “press” today equally spans the entire political spectrum from far left to far right.

JBJD:  BO omitted many last names.  Frank was no different.  If it was only Frank, it would mean something.

Heather.  Your entire argument is lost by looking at the OJ Simpson “drama coverage” the
Dan Rather fiasco,  can’t remember the name of the little girl that was murdered in her basement at Christmas, a few years ago, and such since then.
  The media is providing DISTRACTION FROM this battle in the US House. Look at the OVERcoverage
of certain news items i.e., (and I do have great
sympathy for the family) the little 2 year old girl in Florida that they are reporting so much on, ignoring the battle of the House.  And they will pick up another one and drag it on and on.. anything to “capture” the ears.  Drama!  Actually,
I think they learned that ploy FROM the OJ Simpson covereage.. didn’t they even have “theme
music” attached to it… so when you heard the
music, you KNEW it was about OJ?  Hey, it worked
then,  and it is working NOW.
  If they were REALLY after the “bottom line,”
and interested in raings (hence profit) they’d be riding piggy back to stand in a CROWD of reporters, hanging onto every sentence spoken
about this battle for the House.  They would be 10 deep in front of Pelosi asking questions.  Get real, girl.  No. I don’t see that money, ratings, bottom line profit are at play here at all.  I see it as pure ideological.
  LOL, do you REALLY think the press “equally spans the entire political spectrum?”  IT IS THE TOTAL   LACK OF REPORTING THE HOUSE BATTLE THAT
IS (repeat) IS THE NEWS!!!  Their silence of news is one thing that is firing up the grass-roots of America.  We are all asking WHY??? What is the “conspiracy” (my quotes)?  How far reaching is it?
  Our inquiring minds want to know.
  They are so far out in the left field, they are in orbit.  Me?  I’m curious as all get out of what’s in it for them in the long run?  My inquiring mind would like to know.

Sorry, Heather.  My last comment should have been directed to TK,  in his response to you.  I apologize, Heather.

“… They have their hand in every pocket…in the name of freedom, democracy, and the promotion of economic progress…while what they are really doing is spreading what ever sort of halfnews hybrid whatever entity is trying to promote at that time. …”

Those comments apply equally to politicians and corrupt businessmen. The problem is that the politicians have usurped so much economic power through their micro-managing, arbitrary, and ambiguous regulations that honest businessmen have no idea what will NOT get them into trouble (and jail) with the politicians and their regulatory enforcers.

That creates an open invitation for crony capitalism where politicians extort money and favors from businessmen who pay money and favors for favorable regulations and overlooking of corrupt business practices. I need point only at Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae for the type of double-self-dealing that corrupt businessmen and corrupt politicians engage in.

The “press” has been fighting for customers using sensationalism and entertainment posing as journalism since the dawn of time. Yellow journalism, muckraking, and smear campaigns have been with us at least as long. There’s nothing new here.

All need to search out as much information as possible and wade through the muck and make rational judgments. Be skeptical and inquisitive and think for yourself. Your (our) survival depends on it.

John, you are so right.  Corruption spreads a wide net.  Your last paragraph would almost serve as a eulogy for the demise of America.  A year of so ago, I researched Lobbyists and was shocked to see the number of foreign Lobbyists registered, and I think we can all agree only a percentage do “register.”  My own ex-Senator, Trent Lott, only spent a short part of his term after re-election before quiting to become a Lobbyist.  I am old enough to remember that if an elected official was caught doing wrong, he automatically resigned in disgrace. 
  What is going on in America is insanity. ( I
started to list a few, but I’m sure you are aware
of many).
  We have about 70-80 days to keep Obama from being elected.  I find it abominable that he has not been mandated to produce his birth certificate for examination/Validation. 
  I could go on… but your last 2 paragraphs speaks volumes.  May God have mercy upon America.

Your last comment, John.  Amen to that.
I hear so often… I don’t have time to research.
I listen to Fox only (LOL).  I work 2 jobs.  I am lucky to get supper done after work.  All legitimate explanations.  I know so few who are
trying so hard…….and they are almost all of the senior age group.  We have time, but also
WE REMEMBER A BETTER AMERICA.

Where is Obamas milirtary service record????/
Most Patriots at his Age have served our country

Evertt you hit on a VERY GOOD QUESTION.
Gee, he would have had to show his birth certificate of due any military service
(reserves/national guard).  Wonder if he had to show it when he was elected to office in Illinois or Washington.  Very interesting observation.

The truth about Obama is also being effectively obscured here in Indonesia, where he spent part of his childhood, notably by the Jakarta Post, which published the AP white-wash of Barack’s mentor last Friday.
The JP is a notoriously left-lib paper, has published eulogistic stuff about Ho Chi Minh and slavishy pushes ‘gay rights,’ – if the 90% Muslim population here understood Obama wants to enshrine perv ‘marriage’ and adoption, they might be less enthused. So why don’t some of you bloggers send them letters or emails to even up the balance?

To Evert Byers – #70:

Obama was born in ‘61 and wasn’t age 18 until ‘78 – - therefore, he obviously couldn’t have served in Viet Nam.

By the Gulf War in ‘92 – - he was 31 – - generally out of the preferred age range for military volunteers.  Consequently, he would not have been a candidate to volunteer and serve in ‘92 – - and, that conflict ended rather quickly – - probably too quickly for someone to volunteer and be trained quickly enough to be sent on to duty in the Middle East.

Patriotism is certainly NOT measured ONLY in terms of military service.  And, certainly, public service may also be part of the broad definition of “patriotism”.

To Evertt Byers #70:

It appears to me that Obama was only about age 12 when the Viet Nam conflict ended – - too young to serve there.  And, he was somewhere over age 31 during the ‘92 Gulf War conflict – - beyond the maximum volunteering age range that the military prefers.

So … ?

There are many more components to “patriotism” than just military service.

It really doesn’t matter! Obama=Maxist Commie while McCain=Trotsky Commie. Both have sworn alegiance to Israel over Americas well being. The only winner in the end is Israel. China is sitting this out, too busy eating Your lunch.

85Yota, Post#51
Beautiful post. Thank you.
You have a good mind. I hope all goes well for your daughter and her little ones…all I know is she has a great Mom.

Hey guys:  Back in comment #52 I asked if anyone could list the AP false statements in the article.  Still looking.  Does “lie” mean something else in AIM-speak?

to nell a 2 cell zygote is different from a 8mth term baby! nobody should tell you what you can do with your body ,however if anyone is thinking about a abortion then it should be done at the 2 cell zygote stage! and not at 5-6 7-8-9- mths because in my opinion that is murder ! mr. obama supports late term abortion and that is wrong ! a child can live out side of its mother from the 5mth stage albeit it would need much care and medical attn but it can live !

I think this story should be front page news on every newspaper in the country. I am not an Obama voter. I have not liked or trusted this man since he first came on the campaigne trail.
I have talked against him with friends who like him. I am scared to death he will somehow make it to the White House. How is a man like him able to sneak his way into the democratic party? As far as I am concerned he is not an American.
I formed my opinions about him when he wouldn’t salute our flag/wear the pin on his lapel,the business about Rev. Wright,among other things.
How can people be so blind?
I pray the American people will wake up before it is too late.Time is of the essence.
I appreciated reading your article, keep up the good work.

I cannot understand, unless it is a conspiracy of the ages, WHY HAS OBAMA NOT BEEN MANDATED TO BRING FORTH HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE?  The FBA, CIA, the President, Homeland Security?????  It isn’t like he was born and bred in Podunk Valley UT….
He has a very sketchy history from birth forward.
You would think it MANDATORY for a candidate for
any NATIONAL office to bring forth his birth certificate.  THAT IS WHAT IS SCARY TO ME!!!!!
  Those he has surrounded with himself are, in my
opinion, somewhat questionable.  He has done not one thing to honor America.
  One month after being elected US Senator, you’d think he’d be wrapped up in learning the ropes, but he went to Kenya..criticized THEIR President, and stood on the podium with his opponent.  I read that some civil unrest followed that visit.
Why is he interested in a Muslim nation before he even sits down as a Senator?  Doesn’t that raise a red flag?  Taking the American flag off his plan and putting a Big O on it?  No red flag?
  The only thing I can think of…because, I guess I am a Christian and I believe we are in the “last days,”  is that God Himself has blinded the people.  It may fit into God’s plans for these
latter days.  It is scary, though. I truly don’t understand how anyone not in a coma could vote for him.

What AP “Lies”?

‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,’ it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.’

Your article about AP lies not only reeks of McCarthyism but also of racism. Since when do we use an American citizen’s 1st Amendment freedom of association against a third person for our own personal gain? As an American citizen, and especially as an American Veteran, I am as ashamed to call you a fellow American as you should be of your obvious intolerance for the rights and freedoms of others. As for your journalistic skills, I can only say they rank right up there with those of the National Enquirer.

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